Gentlemommy Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Can you tell me more about it? I'm thinking about switching dd(7) over from AAS to A and P. AAS is just not really clicking with her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergooseof4 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I have used AAS and other OG methods in the past. My younger two are now finishing up Apples and Pears book B, and will be starting book C soon. I still use the rules and refer to the phonograms, but I love having the workbook. I have seen A&P's method referred to as imprinting, and I can see that it has worked. My dc are finally carrying their spelling over to their writing as well. I can never leave my OG background behind because it is a part of us now, but my middle dc was overwhelmed by PR and SWR, while AAS was structured so that he could apply the rule to the list, but misspell the same words in his other writing. A&P has changed that and improved his reading. You can see the entire program online. I suggest going to their site then opening two windows, one with the TM and one with the student book. You can go through the lessons and see how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Would you say it would work well for a right brained child? She's had six months of VT, but ironically I do believe she's a visual learner lol. She can watch a video (she loves magic school bus videos) and remember everything from it, months later, and apply the knowledge in a different situation. She's behind in reading (due to the vision issues) but is catching up...writing and spelling are still what I would consider behind. I'm not sure if it's that the curriculum isn't a good fit, or she needs more time, or more review, or what. This morning, we were spelling and had gone oer the 'rule'. She misspelled a word and got so frustrated and said "It's just that there are SO many things to remember!!!" and my dh said he was the exact.same.way. He could read/listen to the same thing five times, say he understood, and then have no idea how to answer the question. So I'm just trying to figure her out lol. If I do A and P, I'll get the whole set, as it's a much better deal that way...:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Ariel is pretty strongly right brained and A&P seems to be working much better than AAS was. I'm glad, because all I have to worry about is the workbook and TM instead of all the tiles and cards and everything with AAS. Of course, right now I'm :banghead: because 6 months ago I sold most of my full set of A&P to switch to AAS. I have to re-buy half of it. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Apples and Pears worked wonders here with my dd8 and her spelling. AAS was a bust and I tried other O-G based programs with her, but all they did was frustrate her. Trying to remember all of the rules and when to apply them just made her cry. And to be honest, I couldn't even remember them all. So we stumbled around for all of first grade while I tried to find something that would work. I happened upon Apples and Pears (because of this board!) and it made sense to me. I'm a really good speller and A/P teaches spelling the way I spell by breaking words into their "chunks" or morphemes as they call it. Plus it's spiral so you can't forget words or spelling patterns because they are constantly being reviewed. Plus it has dictation which was on my list of must haves. We started about halfway through book A at the end of first and are now halfway through Book B. Dd's spelling has improved 1,000% and it carries over into all of her writing. I :001_wub::001_wub::001_wub: Apples and Pears! Edited November 6, 2012 by pw23kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Apples and Pears helped my ds's spelling when OG programs did not. You can see inside the entire program here: http://www.prometheantrust.org/usshop.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence1978 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I switched my DD to A&P after not getting anywhere with AAS. She always did fine with the phonogram sounds, writing the phonograms, and even reciting the rules. Applying all this is writing didn't work well, and surprisingly, breaking words into syllables wasn't helping her reading either. It was all just too much to remember and keep track of, which I think was her problem. She has working memory problems, so simple really works best. She will still get frustrated with A&P, but her spelling is improving a lot and carrying over. I would include OG rules, but they just don't seem to help her. A&P continual review and chunking are what is helping her. Her reading has also improved with Dancing Bears, particularly her ability to break apart large words into their morphemes. It isn't fun, she doesn't like any of it, but it has worked. It takes us about 15-20 minutes a day, is just a workbook and simple TM, making it so much easier to be consistent. I'm not sure if she is right-brained or not. She doesn't really seem to fall into either category, so I'm inclined to label her "balanced-brained". She is a very visual girl, but did also have to go through VT and has a terrible time with spatial tasks still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I wish I had switched to A&P sooner. I never tried AAS because of the cost. A&P has been the only thing that has really helped DS at all with spelling. It really helps DS that it keeps repeating words over and over. I have no idea if he is left or right brained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ok, so I've been having a look at this...and I have some more questions if you all don't mind. This doesn't seem to be 'rule' based. There is no explanation of why the words are spelled the way they are...am I right in thinking that? Is it basically repetition of words that helps them learn to spell them? Or should I be telling her the reasons as we work through the book? I'll admit, I don't have a good phonics background...I am a voracious reader, which is why I can spell decently. I'm afraid if it's up to me to remember what rules go with what words I'll screw it up. :001_huh: Also, I did a mock worksheet for dd, and tried the lesson with her (I started at lesson 21 in book A). She enjoyed it, but it was a lot of writing for her at one time. Should I break up the lesson into two days? Or allow her to spell some of the words orally? Thank you for your replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergooseof4 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 There are only a handful of rules. Otherwise, they expect the repetition to ingrain the unspoken rule into their brain. I do remind my kids of the rules that they already knew, but were often not applying. But, I really don't think the verbalization of the rule is what has set it in their mind. Because of the above, I would not do A&P orally. Just do what she can each day, and then stop. Don't worry about the lesson number or how long you take to complete a book. There are some lessons that are just ten dictation sentences, and we will often just do five or six of them. At the stage we are in, I often have them complete what they can do on their own of a lesson early in the day, then we go back and do everything that I need to dictate to them later. That breaks up the writing, but they couldn't have done much of the lesson on their own in the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I usually break the level (lesson) up into two days. You could always just set a timer for x amount of time and stop when the timer goes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The reality is that phonics rules apply consistently to reading but not to spelling. (I have written about this at length on the forum. I have 2 sons that knew the rules/phonograms upside down and backward and couldn't spell beyond a 3rd grade level consistently. Once you hit words that are not simple in construction, possible phonograms which fit phonetically while violating no rules leads to numerous possible spellings. For example, froot vs. fruit or hight vs.height) While the rules have generalities and can assist in spelling, phonics rules do not definitively aid spelling. If a child is going to rely completely on rules vs. memorizing spelling, they will be horrid spellers. A&P forces students to discriminate letters and focus on the spelling vs relying on the rules. In the higher levels, the morpheme constructions helps them to always focus on the root word as the construct the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I usually break the level (lesson) up into two days. You could always just set a timer for x amount of time and stop when the timer goes off. We always do this (break up the level). I can't imagine doing a level in one day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The reality is that phonics rules apply consistently to reading but not to spelling. (I have written about this at length on the forum. I have 2 sons that knew the rules/phonograms upside down and backward and couldn't spell beyond a 3rd grade level consistently. Once you hit words that are not simple in construction, possible phonograms which fit phonetically while violating no rules leads to numerous possible spellings. For example, froot vs. fruit or hight vs.height) While the rules have generalities and can assist in spelling, phonics rules do not definitively aid spelling. If a child is going to rely completely on rules vs. memorizing spelling, they will be horrid spellers. A&P forces students to discriminate letters and focus on the spelling vs relying on the rules. In the higher levels, the morpheme constructions helps them to always focus on the root word as the construct the word. Thanks for this post! I respect you so much on these boards and it makes me happy to see you write this. My daughter really started having trouble with the O-G methods once she had learned multiple vowel combinations that could all make the same sound. She wouldn't know which to use in a word and there was no rule for that! Very frustrating for her and it seemed to make spelling over complicated to me. Thanks again for your insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 The reality is that phonics rules apply consistently to reading but not to spelling. (I have written about this at length on the forum. I have 2 sons that knew the rules/phonograms upside down and backward and couldn't spell beyond a 3rd grade level consistently. Once you hit words that are not simple in construction, possible phonograms which fit phonetically while violating no rules leads to numerous possible spellings. For example, froot vs. fruit or hight vs.height) While the rules have generalities and can assist in spelling, phonics rules do not definitively aid spelling. If a child is going to rely completely on rules vs. memorizing spelling, they will be horrid spellers. A&P forces students to discriminate letters and focus on the spelling vs relying on the rules. In the higher levels, the morpheme constructions helps them to always focus on the root word as the construct the word. Yes!!!!! THIS is what I've been thinking but couldn't put into words. I keep hearing O/G will teach them to spell everything and I couldn't quite verbalize why I didn't see it working. My kids DOES spell phonetically. And wrong. :tongue_smilie:Most of the times she ISN'T breaking a 'rule'. Thank you thank you thank you for this. It is EXACTLY what I needed to hear, and especially from someone I respect so much. :D (and if you could point me in the direction of where you've written more on this, I would really appreciate it!!!) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yes!!!!! THIS is what I've been thinking but couldn't put into words. I keep hearing O/G will teach them to spell everything and I couldn't quite verbalize why I didn't see it working. My kids DOES spell phonetically. And wrong. :tongue_smilie:Most of the times she ISN'T breaking a 'rule'. Thank you thank you thank you for this. It is EXACTLY what I needed to hear, and especially from someone I respect so much. :D (and if you could point me in the direction of where you've written more on this, I would really appreciate it!!!) ;) This is my daughter, too. With A and P we are seeing steady progress in the right correction. Spelling is still hard, hard work for her but it is steadily getting better. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence1978 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 That was my daughter as well. She was an excellent phonetic speller. You could always tell what she was trying to write if you sounded it out. A&P has helped her more than AAS in that regard. Oh, and there is also no way we could make it through a lesson in one day. That is way too much writing. Generally she does one side of a sheet each day, making the lessons span 3 days for her. I would like to get it down to 2 days, but since she is still making steady progress, I haven't pushed it yet. We are about 12 lessons into book B. We do divide up the sentence dictation at the end of each lesson, since doing all 4 of them in one sitting was causing tears. Some of those can get quite hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetandSimple Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think that the most important rules are covered, and that's enough for me! We always take two days to do a lesson, and I do think that it is important to do all of it on paper... there is a method there, and it works! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 :)I so appreciate all of your thoughts. We did end up taking two days to complete lesson 21, and I think that would be the right amount for her. I had her write everything, instead of spelling some orally. I can't wait to order this. I'm hoping it will continue to be a good fit for her, she is already enjoying it more than AAS...she can memorize things rather well, and today was able to use her 'picture memory' AND that sparked remembering a rule we've already covered. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.