Hunter, have you had any luck with core knowledge books?

[mama25angels]

have you tried using them yet?

[Hunter]

I'm still getting ahold of library copies to compare the old and the revised edition.

 

I've been using the K book a bit, for now. I don't have the old grade 1 book yet, to compare the previous edition's starting point.

 

I'm trying to decide whether I want to commit to NtK science or Evan-Moor Daily science. I think Evan-Moor is better, but the leaner NtK will allow more time and money for squeezing in hands on work.

 

I think I'm pretty committed to the NtK history, art and music, no matter what edition I use.

 

I'm still comparing the NtK literature to the Noah Plan literature. I also want to reread the 1st edition TWTM Grammar "Words, Words, Words:" section to see if that has any helpful advice. I'm leaning towards the NtK literature. My seizures have been more under control than usual, and I have had a long run of a fairly clear head. I need to be careful though, about planning on staying this way, because that is unlikely.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Hunter

[2_girls_mommy]

Have fun. We had a great 2 yrs doing the art and music sections and 1 yr using the history as a guide!

[mama25angels]

Thanks Hunter, i'm going to use the books a bit for the next few weeks and see if we like them. I think we will, i've been reading the poetry and my boys are loving that :lol:

[Hunter]

It frustrates me to no end that the revised series is not finished. :banghead: :angry:

[Walking-Iris]

I have the preschool and the first 4 books. Our K and 3rd grade book are original. I don't really see any difference in them other than formatting? :confused:

 

Also if you like Core Knowledge then The Educated Child by William Bennett is a good read/reference book.

 

I really like most of Core Knowledge's materials.

[Hunter]

There was an original K???? I thought it started with grade 1.

 

There is a BIG difference in the two series. The revised series does not finish the history sequence until grade 8, but there are no grades 7 and 8 books. I don't know what is missing from the other subjects.

[Walking-Iris]

There was an original K???? I thought it started with grade 1.

 

There is a BIG difference in the two series. The revised series does not finish the history sequence until grade 8, but there are no grades 7 and 8 books. I don't know what is missing from the other subjects.

 

 

yep there's a Kindergarten book, and it's not a revised edition. ymmv, but I haven't seen anything about the 3rd grade original that made it difficult to use the revised 4th or revised 2nd. But then again, this are supplemental books, not anything I use a spine per se. I haven't looked at the others. I wasn't aware that they haven't done 7th and 8th yet. Are there 7th and 8th original books?

[mama25angels]

No, there's no original 7th or 8th grade books. I think the series has always stopped with the 6th grade book.

[mama25angels]

We will be using these whole heartedly starting Monday' date=' using them ala Waldorfish kinda inspired method. Basically I won't try to find worksheets and things to show that we did something any longer. We will use "main lesson books" to show what we have covered. They may have some foldables, drawings, copywork, written narrations, etc in them.

 

The NTK books will be our spine, I will add in living books and hands on activities.

 

We will be continuing with our McRuffy math and our Total Reading (covers grammar and writing) workbooks, but will also make sure we cover what is in the NTK books for those topics.

 

I have loved these books for so long, but was afraid for some reason to implement them. I have spent years (yes literally years) bouncing from this to that just because everyone was talking bout the next great thing. I am done looking at what anyone else is using. These things will work for us, and when we do units from the NTK books my kids love it.[/quote']

 

 

We're going to start using them in a similar fashion on Monday as well. Please post how things went at the end of the week and I will also.

[Maus]

There was an original K???? I thought it started with grade 1.

 

There is a BIG difference in the two series. The revised series does not finish the history sequence until grade 8, but there are no grades 7 and 8 books. I don't know what is missing from the other subjects.

yep there's a Kindergarten book, and it's not a revised edition. ymmv, but I haven't seen anything about the 3rd grade original that made it difficult to use the revised 4th or revised 2nd. But then again, this are supplemental books, not anything I use a spine per se. I haven't looked at the others. I wasn't aware that they haven't done 7th and 8th yet. Are there 7th and 8th original books?

I have the full set of both editions. They caught my mom's eye back when I was in college and we both started buying them as they were released. (I think they only had first and second out when we first saw them. Ironically, I don't use them as much in homeschooling as I would have thought, but we do use them as read-alouds and as a quick "all-in-one" for travelling.) The original edition did not have a Kindergarten book.

 

When they revised the series, they added Kindergarten, which is not a "revised" edition because there wasn't one before. The foreword says it is in response to parents and teachers who had been using the original series and wanted material for Kindergarten. It does included some content that previously was in the First grade book. One part of the revision was to shift content to accommodate the new Kindergarten level. The first edition was 1st-6th. The second is K-6th. Well, actually they came back after 6th grade was done, and added Pre-school, so it's PreK-6th. The teacher books and the accompanying art and text resources are K-5th.

 

The scope and sequence materials weren't available until the revised edition was well under way, and they match that edition. I recall something on their webpage some time ago about teacher requests for 7th and 8th grade materials, with their response that they had that under consideration, with no definite plans.

[Hunter]

I definitely will. I was trying to learn about main lesson books just a little more and came across a blog post where the mama had her DD do her work on lose pages and then bound them later. ....Doing it this way will also open up the possibilities for different types of paper going in (like lined for copywork or water color paper for art work).

 

I like to use different kinds of paper for different assignments, too. I was rereading TWTM 1st edition last night about her notebooking organization. the Principle Approach is another notebooking method, that really gives some good ideas for vocabulary study especially. I will definitely be using loose leaf paper in a binder. I like the clear flexible plastic ones I get at Staples. They are generally $2.00 at full price and $1.00 on sale. They feel more like a notebook than other binders.

 

The more I look at the books, I'm realizing that there is more science than first appears. For example there is a focus on color in the K art section. I will include science resources on color. In one of first history lessons, maples, oaks and birches are mentioned, and I will add a quick study of those before reading that section.

 

The original series did not have grades 7 and 8, but the series was FINISHED at grade 6. The new series just lops modern history off. The topics are listed in the S&S, but there is no support in teaching them. I'm not sure what happens with the science. I think there is missing science content in the revised series.

 

I still don't have a complete set of both series to compare. I'm assuming all the missing content for grades 7 and 8 are in the old 5 and 6.

 

Thank you everyone for clarifying about the K book. That is what I had thought, but wasn't sure after a previous post. I am getting more and more attached to this series, even though I don't know which version I am going to use yet. I hope the rest of my library copies come in soon. For now the K book is serving me well.

 

I think Waldorf and Principle Approach methods work particularly well with this series, because it is concise.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Hunter

[Walking-Iris]

Thanks for clarifying all that. I have had these books on my shelf for so long, and usually they're just something my oldest ds picks up and looks through on his own.

 

This thread comes at a timely moment for me, because I have been stressing our science studies. There is very little out there that I really like for science. I have been leaning toward the WTM science rotation but I find some of the science recs a bit lacking.

 

I have been thinking of planning mommy made lessons and booklists using Core Knowledge as a guide. It helps me tremendously to know that there are not 7th and 8th grade books, so I can think of other options for those grades.

 

About Waldorf Main Lesson Books. Love that idea. We started implementing a somewhat tweaked Oak Meadow version of the Main Lesson book with the kids this year, My Kinder has a spiral sketchbook that he uses for science (I've been using ScienceWorks, Mudpies to Magnets, and readings--yes from the pre-k What Your x Needs To Know books). I write down for him, usually in chart form, some of the things we have been talking about. He draws and pastes in worksheets or mag clippings etc. I have two sketchbooks for him divided in sections for Animals, Our Body, Plants, The Earth, and Weather.

 

My oldest ds also has a three ring binder for science that we store narrations, definition work, any lab sheets etc. It is divided pretty much like WTM recs. We also do history in the three ring notebook. But his lang arts is a Main Lesson book ala Waldorf. He has an unlined sketchbook journal and he writes his copywork/dictations and any written narrations (we use WWE/Bravewriter) in that and then he illustrates that with quality coloring pencils. It brings the elements of art that OM is known for into out lang arts time. I have also noticed that having him write on unlined paper for copywork and dictation has improved his ability to write straight and sure. So he actually has come to treasure his copywork/dictations because it is being done in this keepsake sort of way--makes it special.

 

We use regular notebook paper for things like Freewrites etc. and his spelling is just done in the student workbook that comes with our program.

 

It makes me feel incredibly happy to know that there are others out there combining these two resources and leaning away from traditional curricula type books for the most part.

[mama25angels]

Today went well. It took more work for me than I'm used to' date=' but it didn't have to. I decided to use our large white board, I put the date in the center of the top, this is something we never seem to go over. I then picked a word of the day for vocabulary (from wordly wise 3000, which I bought and we hate) and wrote just the word in the top left. I chose a poem from the K book and wrote it on the right top corner. Oh and on the left, under the word of the day I wrote what the social studies topic was today. It was short and simple (think CM method here), just that we would read a tiny bit about Asia and they would draw an animal that was listed as being from Asia. Then in the center of the board I drew a big hangman hook and at the bottom put my lines for the words to the saying we are going to go over this week (Better safe than sorry).

 

We read the date, and I then had them read it back to me. We talked about the word of the day and it's meanings. I read them the poem and then we read it together (they are both emerging readers for the most part). Then we played hangman and discussed the saying. We read the little section in the K book on Asia. We looked at a world map and located Asia and we talked about the great wall of China because it was a focus in the book. They each then drew an animal from the reading. My 7yo DD drew a tiger, My 6yo DS drew an elephant and my 3yo DS drew a back ground and asked me to draw him a panda.

 

We did our regular maths (McRuffy) and our regular language arts (reading and the Total Reading workbook), we did not do spelling but probably should have.

 

Tomorrow, we will read a story from the K book and cover a science topic. We are on weather right now.[/quote']

 

That sounds awesome!!!! Our day went well also, we only did Geography today because Dh is off and we've having a short day. Anyway, we did the Geography in the K book and our regular math and fact practice with the math shark, Spanish practice (they love this), some HWOT and our regular read aloud. Tomorrow, we'll do the sayings and some other things. We read the literature and poetry at bedtime.

[Hunter]

Today went well. It took more work for me than I'm used to' date=' but it didn't have to. I decided to use our large white board, I put the date in the center of the top, this is something we never seem to go over. I then picked a word of the day for vocabulary (from wordly wise 3000, which I bought and we hate) and wrote just the word in the top left. I chose a poem from the K book and wrote it on the right top corner. Oh and on the left, under the word of the day I wrote what the social studies topic was today. It was short and simple (think CM method here), just that we would read a tiny bit about Asia and they would draw an animal that was listed as being from Asia. Then in the center of the board I drew a big hangman hook and at the bottom put my lines for the words to the saying we are going to go over this week (Better safe than sorry).

 

We read the date, and I then had them read it back to me. We talked about the word of the day and it's meanings. I read them the poem and then we read it together (they are both emerging readers for the most part). Then we played hangman and discussed the saying. We read the little section in the K book on Asia. We looked at a world map and located Asia and we talked about the great wall of China because it was a focus in the book. They each then drew an animal from the reading. My 7yo DD drew a tiger, My 6yo DS drew an elephant and my 3yo DS drew a back ground and asked me to draw him a panda.

 

We did our regular maths (McRuffy) and our regular language arts (reading and the Total Reading workbook), we did not do spelling but probably should have.

 

Tomorrow, we will read a story from the K book and cover a science topic. We are on weather right now.[/quote']

 

Hmm...very interesting. I had been doing mini lessons with a student, and switching very quickly from one subject to the next, and scrambling to set up for each new subject. I was reading or listening to something by Melisa Nielsen (Waldorf curriculum author) recently and she was talking about putting all the subjects in one lesson book, instead of separate subjects. She said it was easier to track progress.

 

A day is a special thing. Maybe documenting what was learned in a DAY is far more natural than trying to create complicated handbooks. Handbooks are nice for reference, but...they put so much focus on the product, that the process can get ignored or unnecessarily complicated..

 

As I said at some point, I write on paper instead of a board, to give the student an example of what she is supposed to do. And I just plain don't have a board right now. :-) I think I like this idea of mixed subjects on the same board/paper. As I said a day is a special thing.

 

I do The Artist's Way Morning Pages every morning. I would never think of starting a new page every time I switched topics. As I'm writing down each errand/chore I need to do, I highlight them in different colors. Orange are things I need to research online later. Brown are errands outside the home. Red are chores at home. Green is outdoor activities. Yellow are planned entertainment activities. Purple are art and music. Blue are academics. Pink is spiritual activities.

 

I'll bet there is a way to set up a journal for NtK that is organized and pretty.

[Walking-Iris]

Hmm...very interesting. I had been doing mini lessons with a student, and switching very quickly from one subject to the next, and scrambling to set up for each new subject. I was reading or listening to something by Melisa Nielsen (Waldorf curriculum author) recently and she was talking about putting all the subjects in one lesson book, instead of separate subjects. She said it was easier to track progress.

 

A day is a special thing. Maybe documenting what was learned in a DAY is far more natural than trying to create complicated handbooks. Handbooks are nice for reference, but...they put so much focus on the product, that the process can get ignored or unnecessarily complicated..

 

As I said at some point, I write on paper instead of a board, to give the student an example of what she is supposed to do. And I just plain don't have a board right now. :-) I think I like this idea of mixed subjects on the same board/paper. As I said a day is a special thing.

 

I do The Artist's Way Morning Pages every morning. I would never think of starting a new page every time I switched topics. As I'm writing down each errand/chore I need to do, I highlight them in different colors. Orange are things I need to research online later. Brown are errands outside the home. Red are chores at home. Green is outdoor activities. Yellow are planned entertainment activities. Purple are art and music. Blue are academics. Pink is spiritual activities.

 

I'll bet there is a way to set up a journal for NtK that is organized and pretty.

 

I love The Artist's Way and The Vein of Gold. I credit those books with helping me get rid of years of crappy public school art "lessons" that basically left me feeling uncreative and untalented.

 

My oldest ds is very artsy and loves to write. I have seriously thought about tweaking these two books for him to use for middle school age art and creative writing. And letting him follow them freely in high school.

 

Sorry to derail the thread with that---but yes!!! big time Artist's Way love here!

 

You guys keep sharing your experiences. I'm really :bigear: and getting inspired.

 

How do you guys who are using these books feel about combining? I have thought I would follow the WTM sequence using the first 4 grades of these books as a spine. So I would cover in 1st grade the life sciences (biology-anatomy-plants) working with those sections in all 4 books. Rinse and repeat in 2nd for earth Science. So we would be reading in one year sections from all 4 books. Adapting for age as necessary and adding other resources.

 

I'm an unrepentant tweaker of curriculum. :lol:

[Hunter]

I personally don't like doing a year of each strand of science with young or low functioning students. Their attention span is too short, and essential topics from other strands are not covered before getting into non essential ones in the strand being covered that year.

 

If I was mixing levels of students and was concentrating on a more advanced student while taking the lower one for a ride, I would do a year of one strand. Otherwise I would not choose to do that, for K-4. I like the science sequence of NtK just fine.

 

And as I said earlier, look for hidden science topics in the other subjects. There is a lot of crossover in subjects in the NtK books. This especially makes a DAILY journal instead of TOPIC journals appealing.

 

Artist's Way isn't too far off topic. It's journaling and we are all talking about journaling NtK, and bringing more art and writing into the learning process. I've been brainstorming how to introduce a 15 minute period of morning pages into the curriculum. I would have students do that in a different notebook or looseleaf though, and I wouldn't look at it. I do mine in teeny writing on computer paper and carry it around all day as my schedule and errand list.

 

I think I would schedule the MPs at the end of the session and ask the student to mostly journal about the tutoring session, and their academics goals and plans and dreams. Then encourage them at other times of the day to add to the journal about other topics. I think it would help for them to reflect while still in the session, and to plan any further academics before leaving. And maybe once a week encourage them to flash a set of pages by me, that shows they have been writing about errands and spirituality and relationships and other issues in their life in the same way I have taught them to reflect about their academics.

[Hunter]

Hunter' date=' can you tell me more about The Artist's Way? What is it? From the sound of what you do it's kind of like a daily schedule, but from what little I saw on her site it's something about creative writing and art and heck I don't know.[/quote']

 

The Artist's Way is a funny book. It's packaged as artistic recovery, but the core of artistic recovery--or any recovery for that matter--is to discover where all your time and energy is being diverted and wasted, and identifying the "crazymakers" and abusers in your life who are using you like a disposable battery to fuel THEIR agendas.

 

In life we tend to have black and white ideas about who is an abuser, and who is not. The truth is that we are all potential abusers if given the right circumstances. There are grey areas of abuse and neglect that are harmful to the victim but often condoned by society. Very few people are never victims of the grey area abuse. Being abused weakens us. It get in the way of our creativity and hinders us from being able to accomplish our purpose in life. It exhausts us, because we are being drained, by someone of something.

 

So with the Artist's Way, the author disguises therapy for all sorts of core issues that artists are not aware of, under the disguise of artistic recovery. So artists DO recover, but not in the way they were expecting to. And people who do not consider themselves to be artists of any kind are being encouraged to read the book, because it's so wide reaching and applicable to so many people.

 

Basically, if you are tired, I recommend reading the book.

 

The author is a Christian writing to a secular audience, much like TWTM.

 

The Artist's Way has helped me schedule myself better, and become a more productive, efficient, and confident person. I think I do a lot more planning in my pages that the author intended. Some people are almost prayerful in their pages. Some people are very cathartic in their pages, which I am NOT; trauma victims have to be careful how they journal. Some people do a ton of doodling in their pages. When you sit quietly and are not distracted by your environment and the people in your life, things will surface that wouldn't have otherwise surfaced. For me, it's all the things I need to do, but wouldn't have remembered later. The more stimulated I become, the more I twitch and the more my brain gets fragmented and disorganized. My pages are my roadmap for the day. What is blocked is individual for each person.

[campmom]

Could someone please link to this for me?

Thank you

[mama25angels]

 

Personally' date=' I don't like to break science up like that for the younger grades. I think kids lose interest too fast and can burn out quick on a topic if you are focusing on just one string of science for the year. But as in all things YMMV in what works best for you and yours. :)[/quote']

 

 

:iagree: I don't think i'm going to try and do one string of science anymore, my ds loves experiments and i'm just going to buy him kits as I find them to put with the NtK science topics.

[Walking-Iris]

Thank you for explaining this. I am intrigued but I highly doubt our crappy library has it' date=' and books that I may or may not end up using aren't in the budget right now. (my next buy is the Preschool NTK book for my littlest guy who suddenly wants to do school too). I think I will think on this some and see how I can make it work for me. I do think I may design a few pages to print out to put all that I had on the whiteboard on, as I really think they would be great for keeping as our log.[/quote']

 

It would be more for an adult to work with than a child. I didn't mean to imply in my post upthread that her books were suitable for homeschooling or as art/writing curricula. But that I personally have felt that my artsy ds would likely get something from them if I tweaked them a bit. But I have been familiar and doing the Artist's Way exercises since late college. One would really want to be familiar with this particular ("self-help") book/method before thinking about using it with children.

 

About my science rotation idea. IDK! I have realized that when we skip around, then our science doesn't get done. I think if we stay with one science thread officially, leaving plenty of time to follow interests less formally then my ds may retain more and keep interest longer. Things like nature study would still happen. So I wouldn't be totally ignoring other science topics, just officially planning one. I think it would make it easier on me to plan and find materials for the year.

 

I've been trying the buffet style and it just isn't working for us. My ds has picked up a lot of knowledge informally, but I need some sort of easy to navigate plan.

 

I really like the way the Sequence breaks things down in their outline into sub topics. Tons better than the WTM rec of reading a book and narrating it. I need more detail than that.

 

I wouldn't skip around history in the Core books. We're pretty content with our SOTW anyway.

 

Still I have to admit I felt a bit silly even thinking about it. All those shiny science curricula and I hardly like any of them! Glad to know others don't see my idea as totally undoable.

[mama25angels]

Today's overview.

 

Like yesterday we began with the date and a word of the day. We reviewed the saying of the week and what it means. Today was "story" day' date=' we read The Little Red Hen. Today was also science day. We are on weather and read Rain and Snow. I had previously looked for experiments (I like to look at the Magic School Bus site) and decided we would make rain in a jar. While the "rain" condensed we cut out the snowflakes that were an activity in the book. I want to watch Magic School Bus Makes a Rainbow, but so far we haven't. We also haven't made a page for our MLB or journal yet, but we will before the day is over I hope.

 

We moved on to our every day/individual subjects (phonics/reading, math, handwriting, and our Total Reading workbook).

 

Today I did the same layout as I did on the whiteboard only on paper. I think I like the whiteboard better for this. I'm going to stick with a simple checklist (science: check, reading: check, etc) for each day (I print these from Donna Young. I am thinking of printing out and using this great free planner as a journal for my own pleasure, but the district only needs the checklist and that is all I want to give them ;)

 

 

Excellent!!!!! Please keep posting about your days, I love hearing about them. We'll be doing the same set up as yesterday as well.

[Hunter]

 

Here is a great list of ideas that you could turn into activities to go with the NTK books. You could use them for any of the subjects really. http://teachnet.com/lessonplans/language-arts/more-ideas-than-ever-book-reports/

 

:svengo: That is a LONG list! Thanks!

[Hunter]

It would be more for an adult to work with than a child. I didn't mean to imply in my post upthread that her books were suitable for homeschooling or as art/writing curricula. But that I personally have felt that my artsy ds would likely get something from them if I tweaked them a bit. But I have been familiar and doing the Artist's Way exercises since late college. One would really want to be familiar with this particular ("self-help") book/method before thinking about using it with children.

 

:iagree: It's only because of my own longterm use of the method that I would be introducing it to a student. This is one of those things you need to fully own yourself before teaching.

 

I've been trying the buffet style and it just isn't working for us. My ds has picked up a lot of knowledge informally, but I need some sort of easy to navigate plan.

 

Ahh, I get it, Trust yourself. I was at the library today, I realized that if I was purchasing certain supplementary books, it would be cheaper to teach one strand a year.

 

Fawn, thank you so much for the daily updates. They are inspiring.

 

I agree with your choice to use cheaper supplies. When we teach students advanced techniques with department store brand supplies, we give them a gift greater than lessons with expensive supplies.

 

I have some of the fancy art supplies and have stopped using them. Stockmar crayons melt and smear. Crayola crayons are cleaner. The softer an art supply is, the messier it is. Also shipping breaks the softer and more expensive items even quicker than cheaper ones.

 

To use regular crayolas, sharpen then with a sharpener that does not leave the lip that they arrive with. Now that you have a flat taper, color with the side of the taper. Color light layer after light layer, turning the paper after each layer. If you are shading with a contrasting color, first darken the shaded area with the main color of the item in light layer after light layer. Then add just one light layer of the contrasting color.

 

Lots of painting lessons and chalk lessons and pastel lessons can be applied to cheap crayons. There is a long thread here about the free vintage Augsburg drawing books that include "crayon paintings". At first I thought I needed to use softer and more expensive crayons, but I have since learned to just make lighter layers.

 

I've just been using cheap 24 packs of Crayola with students and studying like a fiend what we can do with them. It turns out that we can do a LOT.

 

I finally got ahold of an old grade 1 book. It does have a lot of the new K content. I can't find a copy of the old 1993 grades 1-6 scope and sequence anywhere for either download of purchase. I can't even find an ISBN# for it. It was 108 pages long, and called "Core Knowledge Sequence Grades 1-6".

[Hunter]

Okay, I have almost the entire series for both editions here, spread out all over my floor. I'm just missing the old grade 3 and the new grade 6.

 

I think the older edition is better for anyone with OCD. I think the newer edition is better for anyone who has mastered the ability to live in the moment and enjoy it; most people will never finish this series, so obsessing over the missing topics is entirely unnecessary.

 

I much prefer the old science. It is spit into 3 sections: Life Science, Physical Science, and Stories of Scientists. This is similar to how both series have the Social Studies is split into: Geography, World History, and American History. There are all sorts of other times where the labeling, organization and formatting is clearer and preferred by me in the older edition.

 

In the lower levels the older editions have writing that is more concise and expository. The newer edition's writing is longer and more narrative. Most of the time I prefer the concise expository writing of the older edition.

 

The art is more colorful in the newer edition, and includes more topics in the early levels. Sometimes there is a lack of organization of the art in the newer edition though, that is not evident in the older edition. The newer edition has better instructions for learning to look at art.

 

The maps in the new edition are simplified and if scanned, cropped, enlarged and printed, will make nice copies for a student to draw, trace or cut out. I have been using the maps in Draw Write Now, but think these maps would work just as well.

 

My plan at this point is to use the older edition as my main spine, but to try and gradually acquire the newer edition too as a supplement. These books turn up all over the place for pennies. Purchasing the other edition is an efficient way to supplement whatever edition a family chooses as their main edition.

 

So again I recommend the OLDER series for people with OCD tendencies. OCD people are far less thrown by mention of the Soviet Union still being a country, than disorganization. The older edition is just all over more organized and consistent, and it's FINISHED. The newer edition seems to have tried to please too many people, and lost it's focus a bit. It looks like too many cooks in the kitchen. The new edition is prettier and does have some excellent upgrades (especially the art and maps), but the foundation has been degraded. An unfinished "Core" is just irresponsible in my opinion, and that is not the end of the changes that were not improvements.

[mama25angels]

Hunter... this is my all or nothing brain working here' date=' and I have thought about this A LOT but never sat with all the old and new books to try to figure this out on my own. Would you ever consider using both versions of the books at the same time. I know there would be a lot of overlap, but just how much? How much differently are they laid out over all?[/quote']

 

I would like to know this too

[mama25angels]

If I could figure out where my library card is hiding' date=' our crappy library does have 1-6 in the old edition, I would run down and get them, but my card has been MIA for months now. I do have my oldest's card, but I'm pretty sure I don't look like a Garrett...lol

 

For the record, I have nothing to report today as to how our day went. We didn't do school, we spent the day looking for missing things... first my 6yo DS's glasses, then a Netflix movie that was MIA then the daily pill case (that my oldest couldn't remember where he moved it to when cleaning the counter the other day)...lol I'm done, completely worn out for the day and I don't even care..lol[/quote']

 

Lol! I don't blame you, rest up for tomorrow!

[Hunter]

 

For the record' date=' I have nothing to report today as to how our day went. We didn't do school, we spent the day looking for missing things...[/quote']

 

When life happens we NEED to deal with it. I HATE looking for lost items. I don't envy you at all today.

 

I spent hours today comparing the books. I have decided NOT to try and use both editions. I'm just too OCD for that. I might use the new K book along with the old 1st grade, as the extra art (introduction of color and line) and better continent maps make more of a difference here than in later grades, but I have do other resources that I plan to use anyway to cover those topics, so...there isn't much point in holding onto the K book. After that, for better or worse, I'm just going to stick to the old edition. It's better for me to supplement with entirely different resources than to keep looking at the series side by side. My brain just overheats with nonstop questions and endless maybes.

 

With one student and only one grade at a time, a less obsessive person might be able to juggle both series, especially using the new series as the main series and supplementing with the old series. But with my personality, multiple levels at the same time, and using the old series as the main series, I'll turn into a drooling idiot before it's over. My brain cannot turn off and stop looking for connections; it's both a gift and curse.

 

The art is lovely, but the new series has to go away, far away, before I hurt myself.

[Hunter]

I forget where I read it, but somewhere it said that Core Knowledge is supposed to take up only 50% of the curriculum, FREEING the teacher from having to worry about what the other 50% is. The other 50% can be an organized course of study for instilling religious/cultural values or some other priority to the teacher/parent, or it can just be a hodge podge.

 

Some of the books are very similar. It's the books at the beginning and end that are the most different. When 3 grades were added (K, 7, 8) it really shifted things. There is an attempt to provide some integrated learning, so when the main subject topics were shifted, then other topics were shifted too, and that's where things get exponentially messy. I notice this most with the arts. It's not as easy as just using the new music and arts, because now they no longer link up with the history.

 

I was confused that drawing lines wasn't introduced in grade 1, but then see that it is introduced in book 2 when the geometry of point and line is introduced. I don't have the old book 3. Is color introduced in book 3? I don't see it introduced in the later old books.

 

The more I am looking at the old series, the more I am trusting it. We can be in such a rush to cover EVERYTHING right away. I don't want to totally ignore color before I start book 3 (if it is introduced there), but I'm realizing the wisdom of prioritizing the topics suggested.

 

The new series does a lot of things I am tempted to do. And I think it shows me what is lost by doing that. Slow and steady in an orderly sequence is better in the long run.

 

I really prefer the older science. And the history sequence is finished. If I were going to use the newer books, I would use Evan-Moor Daily Science instead. I don't think the missing modern history topics are all that important as they are not generally covered in K-6 social studies anyway, but it's important to ME to cover them as many of my students will not be completing any later social studies.

 

I like your term "cleaner". Yes, there is a cleaner feeling. You can feel the focus and organization in the older series. It's pure triage, black and white thinking, OCD. Then people using it, sent back lots of feedback about their realities, and all the other wonderful things out there. For better or worse, the original vision is lost in the newer edition.

 

The newer version is an incredible achievement, but it's not what it claims to be. It's not a concise overview of ALL the basic things a person needs to know, presented in an ORDERLY sequence. The new series caters to the modern idea of I can and must keep up with the Jonses, whatever I lose ATTEMPTING to do that. There is a place for the newer series, though as that IS the REALITY of many teachers/parents. They cannot wait to introduce line until grade 2.

 

Does anyone have the old book 3? I'm dying to know if color is introduced in it. I need to reread the later books too. Maybe it's introduced even later. I know there MUST be a color unit SOMEWHERE.

[Hunter]

Hold on to that Grade 2 book for now! :lol:

[kitten18]

I have just skimmed this thread, I want to go back and read it more thoroughly later.:001_smile:

 

 

I just wanted to mention (didn't see it in this thread) another book by E.D. Hirsch, Books to Build On

http://www.amazon.com/Books-Build-Grade---Grade-Knowledge/dp/0385316402/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352397027&sr=8-1&keywords=books+to+build+on

I bought a used copy for just a few dollars.

 

I also really got a lot out of The Knowledge Deficit.

http://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Deficit-Shocking-Education-American/dp/0618872256/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1352397257&sr=1-1&keywords=the+knowledge+deficit

[Hunter]

I think Books to Build on follows the revised scope and sequence. The old scope and sequence was published in 1993, and I can't track a copy of it down anywhere. Neither Books to Build on or the new scope and sequence are much help to me. I was so excited when I saw Books to Build in, but then was quite disappointed.

 

I don't think it's as simple as tacking the old grade 6 book on at the end of finishing the revised series. Yes, there are a LOT of the missing topics in it, but because the series is integrated, the shifting is all over the place to try and retain some integration. Books to Build On hardly covers 7 and 8.

 

It will take attention to the scope and sequence to cover 7 and 8, and the old grade 6 will cover a LOT of it, but the scope and sequence itself will need to be the spine, not the old 6th grade book.

 

I don't think I'll get to scanning the old 6th grade table of contents in the next few days. I can scan with some effort, but I've got some "stuff" going on here today and some significant technology challenges, so...it's just not going to happen. Sorry!

 

Looking at the new 3rd grade book, I see color and eyes covered in the science. My fingers are crossed that means that color is covered in the old grade 3 art.

 

I forget what the Knowledge Deficit is. I'll check out the link.

[Hunter]

I have just skimmed this thread, I want to go back and read it more thoroughly later.:001_smile:

 

I just wanted to mention (didn't see it in this thread) another book by E.D. Hirsch, Books to Build On

http://www.amazon.com/Books-Build-Grade---Grade-Knowledge/dp/0385316402/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352397027&sr=8-1&keywords=books+to+build+on

I bought a used copy for just a few dollars.

 

I also really got a lot out of The Knowledge Deficit.

http://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Deficit-Shocking-Education-American/dp/0618872256/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1352397257&sr=1-1&keywords=the+knowledge+deficit

 

If you are using the revised series, Book to Build on looks like a treasure.

 

Does Knowledge Deficit offer any assistance in teaching? Or it merely a description of the problems and and advertisement for Core Knowledge? I'm short on cash and wanting to bring as few new books in here as possible. I'll see if the library has it, or can get it for me, if you think it's good.

[Hunter]

I just bought the old 1st grade book... uggg I am so weak. Now that we are done with lunch it's time to keep moving along so we can do more than the basics today..lol

 

Since you have the 2nd grade, and if you got it for a bargain, that's not such a horrible choice. It'll let you see the foundation of the series, and how lean and mean it is compared to the revised series which tries to be "complete", post "back to basics". The late 80's and early 90's were an entirely different educational culture, than the late 90's until know, where the scope gets continually wider and the sequence continually earlier.

 

The 1st grade book talks a bit about the Soviet Union in the geography section. That'll give you a good taste of teaching from an out of date book.

[HootyTooty]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but those reading a long one thing I did when we used this program for my first child was we bought a discontinued book entitled Core Knowledge k-8: Topic Guide. It really helped me organize what I wanted to cover and then find books to meet my goals.

[Zoo Keeper]

Does anyone have the old book 3? I'm dying to know if color is introduced in it. I need to reread the later books too. Maybe it's introduced even later. I know there MUST be a color unit SOMEWHERE.

 

I looked the book 3 over, and I don't see a specific section on color...

 

And about The Knowledge Deficit--it's not a "how to teach" book; it's more of a battle cry and rationale of Core Knowledge. It's not a sales ptich, more of an very well written explanation of the benefits of and need for common standards of knowledge in education. Very good read, but not necessary for teaching or using Core Knowledge.

 

 

ETA: I have the revised 1st and 2nd Grade, and older ed. 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Grades. I use my older editions as our U. S. History spine as suggested in The Artner Reader's Guide to American History.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Zoo Keeper
more info

[Zoo Keeper]

edited....

[Hunter]

Here are the topics (in the Visual Arts section) for the older ed. 3rd Grade:

 

Elements of Art

Lines Make Shapes

Shapes with Straight and Curved Lines

Lines Can Show Emotion

A Different Way to Make Shapes

What Quilts Tell Us About Shapes

Using Shapes to Show Emotion

A Painting About an Idea (Peaceable Kingdom, by Edward Hicks)

Shapes in Architecture

Shapes and Rhythm

All Kinds of Horses (study of horse painting by Walter Crane)

Pictures Like Puzzles (Ravenna Mosaic)

Slow Rhythms

Paintings That Are Part of Walls (murals)

The Mexican Muralists

A Mural That Makes a Message

Shapes That Frame a Picture

Pattern and Texture

 

And about The Knowledge Deficit--it's not a "how to teach" book; it's more of a battle cry and rationale of Core Knowledge. It's not a sales ptich, more of an very well written explanation of the benefits of and need for common standards of knowledge in education. Very good read, but not necessary for teaching or using Core Knowledge.

 

Thank you SO much for taking the time to type that out!

 

Where does the old series teach about color? I have a book to teach color that I have been using for years, but...it just seems strange that I haven't found it covered extensively in the old series.

 

Using Color in Your Art, is meant to be used with paints, but I have been able to successfully tweak almost every lesson to be used with crayons. If you want to teach the monochromatic color scheme with crayons, the only brand that work is the 64 pack of Prang; there are light and dark as well as medium crayons for all the primary and secondary crayons. Last I looked, Rainbow Resource was selling Prang 64. Otherwise the regular 24 pack of Crayola takes care of almost every lesson.

 

I guess color will fall under MY 50% and not the Core Knowledge 50%. Or maybe if is covered at least a bit in the 3rd grade science.

 

There is a short blurb on color in the 5th grade art when talking about the new use of oil paints rather than just tempura.

[Hunter]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but those reading a long one thing I did when we used this program for my first child was we bought a discontinued book entitled Core Knowledge k-8: Topic Guide. It really helped me organize what I wanted to cover and then find books to meet my goals.

 

I'm going to assume that is for the revised edition?

[Hunter]

 

ETA: I have the revised 1st and 2nd Grade, and older ed. 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Grades. I use my older editions as our U. S. History spine as suggested in The Artner Reader's Guide to American History.

 

Does it specify which edition?

[Zoo Keeper]

Glad I could (try to) help. ;)

 

I just checked the older 3rd Grade science, and sorry, no mention of color. :glare:

 

 

Your book and methods for learing about color sound very, very good anyway. Who needs CK?:001_smile:

 

Thanks for starting this thread; it's helped me to look at the rest of the books again. Man, there is a ton of good stuff in there. A LOT of bang for your buck.

[Zoo Keeper]

Does it specify which edition?

 

 

It doesn't specify, but my older editions line up exactly with the way Artner's lists the topics to study.

[momto2Cs]

We will be using these whole heartedly starting Monday' date=' using them ala Waldorfish kinda inspired method. Basically I won't try to find worksheets and things to show that we did something any longer. We will use "main lesson books" to show what we have covered. They may have some foldables, drawings, copywork, written narrations, etc in them.

 

The NTK books will be our spine, I will add in living books and hands on activities.

 

[b']I have loved these books for so long, but was afraid for some reason to implement them. I have spent years (yes literally years) bouncing from this to that just because everyone was talking bout the next great thing.[/b] I am done looking at what anyone else is using. These things will work for us, and when we do units from the NTK books my kids love it.

 

This has been a great thread! I've thought off and on about using the books as a guide with my kids, though they're older than the lower grades. I love the idea of using them alongside main lesson books, etc.

 

Gets me thinking! I wonder if, leaving the language arts and math out, I could get through 2 books a year.

 

ETA: Here's a link that might be helpful... it is a list of Core Knowledge recommended books for grades K-5 (pdf): Master Trade Book List

 

Edited November 9, 2012 by momto2Cs

[Hunter]

It doesn't specify, but my older editions line up exactly with the way Artner's lists the topics to study.

 

Down the line I will have to look at Artner. Right now I have a full plate. Thanks for the tip.

 

I do have color covered. I'm the crayon queen. :lol: It makes me nervous though, that if this series left out something as critical as color, what else did they leave out? It's just really strange. The new K and 1 books teach color in the art sections, but I would really like to avoid the slippery slope of using both series.

 

I have hardcover copies of the old series being shipped to me. I'm going to pencil in adding a color unit into the grade 1 art section. There is plenty of room there, as the art section is fairly short. I think I will just gradually consult other scope and sequences and over time notice if anything major is left out, and look for the best slot to pencil it in. I think my NtK books are going to soon look like my How to Tutor Book :-) And if I stick with my digital LOE long enough, I'm going to get a hardcopy of that so I can pencil in the SWR differences. My LOE SWR obsession is another thread though. :lol:

 

My preference would be to use all books, that I can have both a hardcopy AND a Kindle (or stored at Amazon as a Kindle) version. But when you like something, you like something, and I like the OLD version of NtK.

 

I'm just so tired of having SO many books. And even is I got a rare copy cheaply, I just don't like being dependent on something difficult to replace. I just want to simplify all this. I fear I am just further complicating things by trying to simplify, though. No matter what I'm enjoying reading the books. :tongue_smilie: And talking to all of you. :grouphug:

[Hunter]

This has been a great thread! I've thought off and on about using the books as a guide with my kids, though they're older than the lower grades. I love the idea of using them alongside main lesson books, etc.

 

Gets me thinking! I wonder if, leaving the language arts and math out, I could get through 2 books a year.

 

ETA: Here's a link that might be helpful... it is a list of Core Knowledge recommended books for grades K-5 (pdf): Master Trade Book List

 

The old series says 20 minutes a day will get a book done 3 times. I'm not sure if that is true. :glare: That is what it says though.

 

Maybe down the road I'll be able to look at the Master Trade list, Books to Build On, etc., but I need to FOCUS right now. 6 months from now I'll be googling something and this will be one of the 1st five links. I can't tell you how many times my own posts come up. :lol: I'll be glad to see all these ideas and links then when I'm more settled, and getting bored.

[Zoo Keeper]

It doesn't specify, but my older editions line up exactly with the way Artner's lists the topics to study.

 

Also wanted to add that the Artner's Guide uses the NTK books beginning with the What Your 3rd Grader Need to Know book. It spaces out the American History sections in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Grade books into eight units; you could move through these units as quickly (or slowly) as you wanted to. I wrote a little more about the Artner's Guide here.

[Hunter]

Also wanted to add that the Artner's Guide uses the NTK books beginning with the What Your 3rd Grader Need to Know book. It spaces out the American History sections in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Grade books into eight units; you could move through these units as quickly (or slowly) as you wanted to. I wrote a little more about the Artner's Guide here.

 

Thanks. Out of curiosity does the reading list include the Genevieve Foster books?

 

Right now I am only planning on using Waldorf and Principle approach METHODS, but after I'm settled I do want to add in a few of the core topics of these educational methods. The Foster books are on my maybe future list for the Principle Approach History timeline.

[momto2Cs]

Does anyone have the old book 3? I'm dying to know if color is introduced in it. I need to reread the later books too. Maybe it's introduced even later. I know there MUST be a color unit SOMEWHERE.

 

My First Grade one has a color unit in it. It's the revised edition from 1997.

[Zoo Keeper]

Thanks. Out of curiosity does the reading list include the Genevieve Foster books?

 

Right now I am only planning on using Waldorf and Principle approach METHODS, but after I'm settled I do want to add in a few of the core topics of these educational methods. The Foster books are on my maybe future list for the Principle Approach History timeline.

 

I don't see any of the Foster books listed; lots of Landmarks, D'Aulaires, Newberry Medal winners, Albert Marrin books, Childhood of Famous Americans, Jean Fritz, and other goodies. Mostly chapter book type stuff (although Marrin is pretty rich chapter book reading...).

[Hunter]

I don't see any of the Foster books listed; lots of Landmarks, D'Aulaires, Newberry Medal winners, Albert Marrin books, Childhood of Famous Americans, Jean Fritz, and other goodies. Mostly chapter book type stuff (although Marrin is pretty rich chapter book reading...).

 

Thanks!

 

Artner is moving further down the list. There is just SO much good stuff out on the market, but I have to figure out my priorities and put on blinders.