nukeswife Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I loved pretty much all of Tennessee Williams! But I continue to be amazed that The Awakening is required or even recommended reading anywhere. I hope not to burden my children with it, particularly my son. Chick-list at it's worst. Obviously just my opinion. ;) I think that's why I liked The Awakening after having to slog my way through Jude the Obscure and then trying to slog through Tess of the d'Ubervilles and write a 20 page research paper on Thomas Hardy, who was compared to many other authors assigned to the class, a real snooze of a guy, it was nice to have something that didn't require a whole lot of brain power to read. To those that love Austen, I guess I just see it as chick lit in a very pretentious way. If I'm going to read something like that (which trust me I do like) I want it to pull me in pretty quickly and Austen just doesn't do that for me. Like I said I've tried to read P&P at least a dozen times, usually by page 30 I'm dreading even picking the book up off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 To those that love Austen, I guess I just see it as chick lit in a very pretentious way. If I'm going to read something like that (which trust me I do like) I want it to pull me in pretty quickly and Austen just doesn't do that for me. Like I said I've tried to read P&P at least a dozen times, usually by page 30 I'm dreading even picking the book up off the table. It's the way that Austen punctures the snobbery and rigid class structures of the day that interests me. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyydae Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Can't pick only 10! Shakespeare Dickens Hugo Sartre Camus Steinbeck Orwell Vonnegut Faulkner Hemingway Garcia Marquez Kipling Lewis, both Sinclair and C.S. Hesse Dostoevsky Tolstoy These are some must read authors I can think of off the top of my head. ETA: Can't forget Zola. Au Bonheur des dames was one of the best books I ever read. Zola, huh? Have to it to my wishlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 It's the way that Austen punctures the snobbery and rigid class structures of the day that interests me. Laura Yes, this. I think she's sending up the very people and society she lives with/in. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think, sometimes, our feelings on these books is because we ourselves have not become accustomed to the harder language and more difficult ideas. It is one of the things that I see overcome in homeschooling my children. Maybe. I've certainly considered that possibility when I've been ranting and raving at Hugo or Dostoevsky. On the other hand, I am a creature of my time, and that means I care about plot and pacing. I do not think it is Hugo's ideas that make the book difficult, or his language; it is his horrible pacing. We really do not need 50 pages of back story on the bishop. Nor do we need 50 pages on Waterloo to get to the action that is significant to the book. Not everything you create or research in the process of writing your novel needs to make it into the finished product! :auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 The opening line in P&P is one of the best first lines ever. Romance writers are forever trying to best it. ;) It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. Cheeky, ironic, smart. Can't get any better than that. You can almost see the wink in her eye as you read it. It was the first of her books I read and after I giggled, I figured I must be in for a treat. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Maybe. I've certainly considered that possibility when I've been ranting and raving at Hugo or Dostoevsky. On the other hand, I am a creature of my time, and that means I care about plot and pacing. I do not think it is Hugo's ideas that make the book difficult, or his language; it is his horrible pacing. We really do not need 50 pages of back story on the bishop. Nor do we need 50 pages on Waterloo to get to the action that is significant to the book. Not everything you create or research in the process of writing your novel needs to make it into the finished product! :auto: I skimmed over the first couple hundred pages of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I had already seen the cathedral, I didn't need 100 pages of description of it. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) i have no idea what books make one well educated, but these are some that made a favorable impression on me, at least at the time: (i read them in english, all "unabridged" but actually the "unabridged" count of monte cristo was apparently a bit bowdlerized). don quixote, cervantes les miserables, hugo king henry V part 2, shakspere (that's how he spelled it himself, twice) pickwick papers (or great expectations, our mutual friend) , dickens count of monte cristo, dumas (p'ere) a thousand nights and a night (alf laylah wa laylah - a careful selection), trans by burton the odyssey, homer (tr. fitzgerald) the elements, euclid; (and the method, archimedes) elements of algebra, euler the universe and dr. einstein, barnett the origin of species, darwin fathers and sons, gosse hawaii, michener the man who mistook his wife for a hat, sacks moby dick, melville native son, wright memoirs of benvenuto cellini, himself psychology of invention in the mathematical field, hadamard brothers karamazov, (and crime and punishment), dostoevsky war and peace, (and short stories like the three questions) tolstoy the gospel of sri ramakrishna, m. gupta theory of abelian functions, riemann oedipus rex, sophocles who am i?, ramana maharshi i will lift up mine eyes, clark there is a spirit which i feel, james nayler (my quaker ancestor) leela: the game of self knowledge, johari the authoritative calvin and hobbes, watterson the 100: a ranking of the most influential persons in history, hart the autobiography of malcolm x, haley, america in the king years (3 vols), branch Edited October 20, 2012 by mathwonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) i have no idea what books make one well educated, but these are some that made a favorable impression on me, at least at the time... Yeah I have a hard time determining what one must read to be well-educated. You can see in this thread that the results will be vastly different with quite a few similarities. I was a psychology/religious studies student in college and I appreciate the conversation upthread about the Holy Books. If I had my way everyone wouldn't even graduate high school without having had a strong foundation in The Bible/Torah, Talmud/Midrash, The Ramayana, The Upanishads, Vedas, Tao Te Ching, The Koran, The Sutras and Confucious. But that's a tall order. If I have to pick ten books to determine an adult well on their way to being educated :lol: I guess my list would be this(separate from those holy books above). This is really just a personal list. How could it not be? -Tolkien (it's cheating but yes people ought to know about Middle-Earth) -Faulkner (toss up between Light in August and Sound and the Fury) -Moby Dick -Leaves of Grass -Atlas Shrugged -Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee (my children will not leave childhood without getting personal with this book) -Leo Tolstoy (just pick one!!!) -The Iliad/Odyssey -Alice Walker (Possessing the Secret of Joy) -Silent Spring Just for fun! Because I am a huge huge huge children's lit fan, I am always outspokenly shocked when I encounter adults who have never read certain children's books that I consider really important contributions to literature in general, regardless if the audience was children. "You've never read Winnie the Pooh??!! What the ???" is really my honest response when encountering a grown man who only knows Pooh as a picture on the baby's onesie! :001_huh: I *force* my dh to read children's books because he was sorely neglected in that area as a kid. He thanks me later. -Winnie the Pooh -Alice in Wonderland -Peter Pan -Wind in the Willows -The Little Prince -Jonathan Livingston Seagull -Watership Down -Princess and the Goblin (anything by George MacDonald really) -The Hobbit -Call of the Wild Edited October 20, 2012 by Walking-Iris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) wonderful! you reminded me of the odyssey which i had forgot, and alice in wonderland which i omitted. my alice has the john tenniel illustrations. Edited October 20, 2012 by mathwonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyydae Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Frankenstein (now this is an absolute must read) Dracula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I think often people get confused between enjoyable books to read and works of literature that are important. Often if you just read the book, but don't know why it is important you may too easily dismiss it. Conversely, if you love Tolkien or Harry Potter you may want to add these lists of 'important' books. They may be culturally important, but they are not important literature. (And I love Tolkien and like Harry Potter). Anyway for those looking for a Zola novel to read, I found Germinal was gripping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I think often people get confused between enjoyable books to read and works of literature that are important. Often if you just read the book, but don't know why it is important you may too easily dismiss it. Conversely, if you love Tolkien or Harry Potter you may want to add these lists of 'important' books. They may be culturally important, but they are not important literature. (And I love Tolkien and like Harry Potter). Anyway for those looking for a Zola novel to read, I found Germinal was gripping. I'm sorry but I disagree. I love Harry Potter but I wouldn't put it on any list of books that a well educated adult ought to be familiar with. Tolkien however is an important contribution to literature. Especially when you consider that an entire genre of literature will always use him as the master and model. No author can write fantasy fiction without a tip of the hat to Tolkien. Not even really possible. And then there's the vast "history" behind his creation as well as the languages and literary allusions and pure beauty of the writing..... Anyway. It's fun when this thread is a list of books, but if it will turn into "oh they just like it, but don't understand why, and they're confused" then I will bow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I love Uncle Tom's Cabin! Also Sir Girbie by George McDonald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missiemick Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm loving all of the lists - definitely have a few more to add to my 'requested books' at the library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffe Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Had to look at Zola after y'all recommended it. Found this on Amazon for Germinal: Buy the book for Kindle for 99 cents, get the audiobook for $4.99. And it's the Frederick Davidson version which I believe someone recommended. http://www.amazon.com/Germinal-ebook/dp/B001EQ5V4O/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1350748336&sr=1-1&keywords=germinal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) We all have different reasons for enjoying reading, what bores some enthralls others. E.g. the history in les mis was so brilliantly described I found it enjoyable. i still recall hugo's description of the lay of the land where one of napoleon's key battles was fought - he said it was shaped like an "A". That's the one where a slimy corpse robber accidentally found a live soldier and falsely received credit for saving him. So to me the power of language well used is a big plus. Then there are the themes that matter to me. In the previous passage, false credit is awarded a perfidious man. The parallel theme, credit denied to the just, is a moving issue that resonates all throughout les mis, in regard to the hero jean valjean. he is even asked by his adopted children to move out of their home in his old age, and reaches his death bed before they finally discover it was he who saved the husband's life. As a father and family man this message of a just steady man who does his sacred duty is hugely moving, even though a bit over the top to some. Then there is the display of raw intelligence, psychological insight, and sheer brilliance, as in the detective from Crime and Punishment who inexorably breaks down the resistance of the pathological but eventually helpless murderer Raskolnikov. Dostoevsky's grasp of human feelings especially those edging over the line to loss of sanity are amazing, if disturbing as well. In comparison Poe is just scary, since his characters are as brutal but less believable. Cervantes is a genius at capturing again the experience and insight of a tired old man who has experienced much, beginning with optimism and good intentions, and ending crushed by the inevitable consequences of his unrealistic foolishness and naivete. The writing skill is amazing, and shows itself in many ways, including the inclusion of many little short episodes, like the one where a lover convincingly feigns suffering a serious sword thrust, and succeeds in his "dying wish" of marrying his beloved, who was betrothed to another man. Shakespeare's language is a pleasure to read, especially out loud as I recall, and he can summon equally comedy, wit, evil, paranoia, and patriotism. If one has the privilege of a good teacher/scholar one can compare the beauty and power of his linguistic modifications, to the mediocrity of previous versions of the plays from which he borrowed. Dumas also had this magic touch that enlivened the mundane tales of other hands. His romantic themes are also quite entertaining. Mathematicians like Archimedes are tedious and hard to penetrate in full, but even there one can obtain insight from a few well chosen words, possible only for a genius to bestow on us. E.g. he says at the beginning of one chapter on the sphere that " a sphere is a cone with vertex at the center, and whose base is its surface." If you think about it, that eventually makes sense. Picture an ice cream cone, growing wider and wider, not longer, with the angle of the cone growing until it makes a whole sphere of ice cream around the cone, whose point is now in the center, engulfed by ice cream. If you can see that, it becomes immediately clear why the volume formula for a sphere is (1/3) surface area of sphere times radius. I.e. the volume of a cone is (1/3) base area times height, and for a sphere whose base is its surface, and whose vertex is its center, the base area is the surface area, and the height is the radius. I'll bet some of your gifted mathy kids can visualize this. This is so much more insight than one gets from reading typical math books. i.e. if surface area = 4pi.r^2, then volume must be (4/3)pi.r^3. look for this insight in your singapore or other good math books. is it there? if not, why not? In general I recommend small samplings of great but lengthy works. The first chapter of Moby Dick is likely very enjoyable as a short story by anyone. Calvin and Hobbes is sheer laugh out loud genius with a hero maybe like huck finn. So I look for brilliant use of language, deep insight either psychological or scientific, moral uplift, a powerful story, and a good sense of humor. Oh, and Tolstoy even made me enjoy societal gossip and intrigue, because he told it so well. Dickens lampooning of manners and human behavior is also terrifically entertaining, and he always cares about his characters' moral and physical well being. The spiritual texts can remind me how to try to be a better person. but as a famous person once said (samuel johnson?) roughly: "a man ought to read just as inclination leads him, for what he reads as a task will do him little good". Edited October 20, 2012 by mathwonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Sorry, double post. Read my next post instead. Edited October 20, 2012 by aomom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) We all have different reasons for enjoying reading, what bores some enthralls others. E.g. the history in les mis was so brilliantly described I found it enjoyable. So I look for brilliant use of language, deep insight either psychological or scientific, moral uplift, a powerful story, and a good sense of humor. Oh, and Tolstoy even made me enjoy societal gossip and intrigue, because he told it so well. Dickens lampooning of manners and human behavior is also terrifically entertaining, and he always cares about his characters' moral and physical well being. The spiritual texts can remind me how to try to be a better person. but as a famous person once said (samuel johnson?) roughly: "a man ought to read just as inclination leads him, for what he reads as a task will do him little good". What a brilliant post! I wish there were a "love" button! I just reserved Les Miserables from the library. I totally stand with you for your second to last paragraph! I derive prodigious pleasure from great books in those categories you described.:lol::lol::lol: English is my foreign language, but great books transcend all societal, cultural, linguistic, age and time barriers. Edited October 21, 2012 by aomom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 We all have different reasons for enjoying reading, what bores some enthralls others. but as a famous person once said (samuel johnson?) roughly: "a man ought to read just as inclination leads him, for what he reads as a task will do him little good". :iagree:I didn't want to quote the entire post so I chose the first and last sentences because these really capture the essence of what I was thinking. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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