VSL/right-brained learner: what are realistic expectations?

[lindsrae]

I've had some concerns about my eldest DD the last year because she didn't seem to be progressing in reading and writing skills in the "usual" way. She's bright and can memorize things easily, loves books, adores history and science, but she seemed to struggle with reading and writing. It was almost a resistance to reading more than a few sentences per page or writing more than a few words. Spelling was also not much fun to get through.

 

All the reading and research I did wasn't clicking until I read Dianne Craft's site about Visual-Spatial learners or right-brained learners. Now it made sense why she writes with her right hand but does cart wheels as a lefty--she has mixed dominance! No wonder she resists writing--she is not automatically retrieving letter formation, so it is a big struggle for her! Spelling is so complex: trying to associate sounds with letters and than reproducing them on a page was like a nightmare for her.

 

We've been doing some Brain Gym exercises at home: cross crawl, lazy 8s, etc, and I 've seen improvement in just a few weeks in her attitude and even her willingness to work. She will actually pick up a book and want to read it, which she wasn't doing on her own just a month ago. So I think we are making progress, and I'm so glad that my "gut feeling" that something wasn't quite right is being validated.

 

With all of that background, my question is knowing how much work to expect from her. We are using WWE2--she ALWAYS picked the shorter of the 2 sentences in WWE1, but she doesn't have that option any more. I've set aside the dictation right now because it completely stresses her out. I've even changed the copywork to creating worksheets on a handwriting generator so that she can copy the letters; this has helped because we don't battle over copywork any more, but I'm wondering what is helping her and what is not letting her progress. (Even as I type this, I know it is individual for every kid, but any kind of guidelines to help me know when to expect more and when to just provide support would be helpful!)

 

For spelling, we took about a month off because it was just such a battle of tears and trials, and I remember SWB saying that tears, consistent ones anyway, are often a child's immature way of saying that something is too difficult. She doesn't know how to express the difficulty, so she just cries. So I have tried the visual spelling method (not sure if there is an official name) where I write out the spelling word and she draws a picture incorporating the letters of the word in some symbolic fashion. DD LOVES this and enjoys coming up with pictures for the spelling words. I am still struggling with how best to review these words, because as soon as I ask her to spell the word to me (orally, without writing it down), there are the tears again. I'm having a hard time of knowing what is difficulty and what is resistance to trying work. She's very dramatic in ALL areas of life, not just in schoolwork...

 

I guess I'm just looking for a little help in knowing how much to assist her and give her confidence and how much to encourage her to try something a little bit difficult.

 

And any other advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks for sticking with me if you read through all of this!

[PeterPan]

Couple things. One, I wouldn't limit yourself to "realistic expectations" until you have gotten evals and actually know what's going on. You'd kick yourself if you spent years thinking and assuming it was one thing (dyslexia, just being right-brained, whatever), and then realized she had an actual *vision* problem say. Evals are good. Vision, psych/neuropsych. It's good to know what you're dealing with. Don't be afraid of that process.

 

Two, your sig says she's 6 1/2 and in 1st grade. Is there some reason you feel compelled to push on into WWE2??? That's pushign the working memory a lot. Could be she's normal and just YOUNG for the material. Personally I'd put the book up and go PARTY for a week. You finished WWE1! Time to party!!! And then, maybe get out some COOL stuff for writing for a while like the Anti-Coloring books or Listography or... kwim? Christmas is coming. Do acrostics and mad libs and fun stuff together. Seriously. This is such a golden, wonderful age. It really doesn't matter a fig if she does WWE2 right now or a year from now. :)

 

Some of your stuff doesn't make sense to me. I thought PR was dry as toast, mercy. This kid loves history and is creative? Then why do the most boring, b&w stuff on the planet??? We did SWR. Not that I'm recommending it, but it was a framework you could bring the creative stuff into. We played games and put the enrichment activities onto strips in a jar. Lots of games. I think your art activities sound GREAT. Try to continue that creativity with more of your output.

 

The physical amount of writing you described her doing seems like PLENTY for age 6.5. It sounds like you were wanting more and not satisfied? That goes back to just age-appropriateness. She might be smart, but she's still PHYSICALLY who she is. There may or may not be a problem, but really she sounds pretty spot on and normal to me as far as the walls she's hitting. Those are normal amounts to want to stop at.

[Love_to_Read]

Have her spell with letter tiles, not orally. That's visual, without the added challenge of forming the letters.

[rafiki]

nt

[TippyCanoe]

nm

[Colleen in NS]

Two, your sig says she's 6 1/2 and in 1st grade. ...Could be she's normal and just YOUNG for the material. ...It really doesn't matter a fig if she does WWE2 right now or a year from now. :)

 

...We did SWR. Not that I'm recommending it, but it was a framework you could bring the creative stuff into.

 

..She might be smart, but she's still PHYSICALLY who she is. There may or may not be a problem, but really she sounds pretty spot on and normal to me as far as the walls she's hitting. Those are normal amounts to want to stop at.

 

I had pretty much the same thoughts as I read the OP.

 

My daughter at age 6.5 had "troubles" learning to read and spell, too. But I kept reading over and over here on the forums that kids are all over the place with regards to learning these skills. My son eagerly taught himself to read (by memorizing Writing Road to Reading phonograms sounds on his own accord) a few months before he turned five; my very artsy daughter got somewhat comfortable with reading by around age eight or so, and now she adores reading. Still has spelling errors, but they are fewer as she grows, practices writing skills, and analyzes words via Writing Road to Reading methods.

[Colleen in NS]

With all of that background, my question is knowing how much work to expect from her. We are using WWE2--she ALWAYS picked the shorter of the 2 sentences in WWE1, but she doesn't have that option any more. I've set aside the dictation right now because it completely stresses her out.

 

Another option is that you could set WWE 2 aside for now, and have her do copywork in and simple narrations of her history/science/literature readings. Let her continue to practice what she learned in WWE 1 until she gets very comfortable.

 

For spelling, we took about a month off because it was just such a battle of tears and trials, ...I am still struggling with how best to review these words, because as soon as I ask her to spell the word to me (orally, without writing it down), there are the tears again.

 

We use WRTR as I mentioned above, and I don't follow the timeline suggested in it. I've slowed it way down for my daughter. I made sure she knew, before we even started the spelling notebook, that she knew how to form the letters properly. The method in WRTR is very precise and visual, and for me who learned to read and spell by sight, it was revolutionary. It was very helpful to my visual daughter, too. When we moved on to doing the spelling notebook, I also didn't worry about reviewing words. I knew they would come up in her writing practice, and we could then walk through the analysis process then if she had spelling errors. (and because she had so many errors when she was younger, this was another benefit of her doing WWE 1 in Grade 1, WWE 2 in Grade 2, and so forth - simple writing tasks, without room for tons of disheartening-to-her spelling errors) The other thing I did was choose a number of spelling words to analyze in the spelling notebook each day. Instead of doing the thirty or so recommended words, we started with five a day. Slowly increased to ten. And have stuck there over the years, which is fine.

 

hth

[Lecka]

I think it is okay for spelling words orally to be more difficult. I would not push that. Or, maybe just with some very short and easy words, maybe. She is young.

 

For other ways to practice -- you can use letter tiles, and you can have a list of 3 choices per word, and she circles the correct word and either crosses out the misspellings, or crosses out the part that is wrong and corrects it.

 

I see adults all the time who have to trace a word onto their hand or arm before they can spell it out loud.

 

I have also read that some kids can keep track of where they are in spelling a word by using counters or markers, and pulling one down as they spell the word. Maybe something to try if picking out the letters was taking too long.

 

I can see there being some value in reciting a spelling ---- but maybe not so young. If she is coming up with it a way besides hearing the letters as she sounds out the word ------ then it is double work for her.

 

If she is not able to segment a word, I would work on that at a lot lower level.

 

If she is able to segment a word, but it is hard orally ------ I would absolutely have a way for her to scaffold, a visual method of some kind (like letter tiles, counters, another strategy).

 

I wouldn't give up on it but it doesn't seem like it is the only way to practice spelling. Just reading is a good way for a lot of kids to improve spelling, as they get more exposure to a word that way, I think.

 

My son's handwriting is a fight, so we do not do a lot of the traditional things either -- there are other ways it turns out! It is exciting!

[lindsrae]

THANK YOU for all of the replies. I so appreciate the time you took to answer my post!!

 

I need to update my siggy--DD is now 7 and 3 months. We did "first grade" last year, but I really wish I could say first grade for this year :)

 

OhElizabeth, we're dropped PR because ohyesitissoboring! Got caught up in the "look at this program! It does everything! You are missing out if you don't do it."

I am getting better at looking at what works for MY child over what is the prettiest, shiny program.

 

I have the Peggy Kaye and right brained books on hold at the library.

 

Today I decided to skip the copywork in WWE and just do our own. Create printing worksheets for day 1--where she traces the letters, have her copy the sentence day 2, MAYBE do dictation day 3? I am also going to skip around in WWE2 to cover books she is already familiar with then use passages from our reading. Not having context for the story makes her struggle unnecessarily.

 

Guess I needed some reassurance that with some careful planning and research I CAN do wht is best for her. Nice to hear the comment that classical Ed is writing intensive and it is OK to modify that so my DD has success. I don't want her to hate doing schoolwork every day!

[PeterPan]

THANK YOU for all of the replies. I so appreciate the time you took to answer my post!!

 

I need to update my siggy--DD is now 7 and 3 months. We did "first grade" last year, but I really wish I could say first grade for this year :)

 

 

 

So you're saying you want to do a grade adjustment? If you're thinking that's necessary, it's not too late. I've talked with so many people who got caught up with a child who was bright early, they told him the grade ahead (where the dc was on the line), and then they were kicking themselves later. If that's the issue, sure adjust it now! If it's not, well then yeah, I loved 1st grade too. It's like the last vestiges of K5, sniff...

 

Absolutely you can do this! This is NOT rocket science at this age. The more you modify, the happier you'll be. Have you seen the Peggy Kaye Games for Writing book? I just found my copy I had gotten on someone else's advice here, and I'm so looking forward to integrating that as a more FUN take on "classical" writing when my ds comes of age! Just because we're doing stuff carefully and with attention to foundations doesn't mean it has to be BORING! Good job on your modifications! :)

 

On PR, yeah it's a bandwagon thing. I say start your OWN bandwagons; don't follow others'. :auto:

[Wheres Toto]

My son is a definite VSL/right brained. He learned to read (way ahead of where I was trying to teach him phonics) through LeapFrog videos and wanting to find his shows on the cable guide. Then came Wii games and computer. He now "hates" to read but can read at about a 5th grade level. He prefers encyclopedias, non-fiction, comic books - things that aren't a full page of words but usually captions with lots and lots of pictures.

 

Audio books and read-alouds are useless. He just can't keep his attention on them. I understand because I was the same way. I can remember anything I read myself, almost by picturing it in my mind. But, I'm incapable of listening to someone else read. My mind wanders almost immediately if I can't follow along with my own book.

 

All About Spelling has been the best thing for my son for both spelling and making sure he knows the phonics rules. He loves the tiles, sometimes I can have him write on the white board. When I do the words orally, you can see him looking into space, picturing the word in his mind.

 

Handwriting is a nightmare. We are doing Handwriting without Tears. He just started the 2nd grade book but it's a very slow process. I do a LOT of the writing for him in everything except HWT. I don't even attempt copywork or dictation at this point. He's just not ready for it.

[TippyCanoe]

nm

[momtoamiracle]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the suggestions here.

 

 

On doing research the past few days it seems as if my son has strong VSL tendencies. Although learning phonics has been successful, using many visual tools I might add, he struggles mightily with memorization and writing. He adores audiobooks, would MUCH rather be read to than read. He reads quite well for his age, but I think he feels it is work right now.

 

I can't wait to get the Writing games book. I require him to do very little writing, the little spelling we do is done orally.

 

It has taken me about a year to figure all this out. I had no idea why he was so resistant to schoolwork. Now things are going much better, making these simple modifications.

 

 

I'm glad to know we're on the right track!

[lindsrae]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the suggestions here.

 

 

On doing research the past few days it seems as if my son has strong VSL tendencies. Although learning phonics has been successful, using many visual tools I might add, he struggles mightily with memorization and writing. He adores audiobooks, would MUCH rather be read to than read. He reads quite well for his age, but I think he feels it is work right now.

 

I can't wait to get the Writing games book. I require him to do very little writing, the little spelling we do is done orally.

 

It has taken me about a year to figure all this out. I had no idea why he was so resistant to schoolwork. Now things are going much better, making these simple modifications.

 

 

I'm glad to know we're on the right track!

 

This is my child. It was like a battle every day. We still battle, but things are SO much better when I understood WHY she hated writing and spelling so much. It is also comforting to know I can chill a little bit, work with her, and see things start to balance out.

[momtoamiracle]

This is my child. It was like a battle every day. We still battle, but things are SO much better when I understood WHY she hated writing and spelling so much. It is also comforting to know I can chill a little bit, work with her, and see things start to balance out.

 

 

Isn't it a huge relief? Such a weight fell off my shoulders when I discovered what was going on.. I was seriously doubting the wisdom of homeschooling. Now I know it is the best thing to do since public school would be torturous to him.

 

 

I feel a lot less pressure too, to go at a pace that is really best for him, despite what others are doing.

[Guest]

To the OP, first of all, please look into the other side of the story where right-brained/ left-brained theories are concerned. Google for more but here's a link for you:

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/daniel-willingham/willingham-the-leftright-brain.html

 

I am not trying to tell anyone what they should or should not support. I just want others to be informed so that they can decide for themselves :). Right-brained/ left-brained is not something someone is diagnosed with. Just theories!

 

Second, I personally would rule out dyslexia first. I found this site for you, if you want to go through the list and see if your mummy gut says that there is something there you should be worried about. You can then use your mommy instinct to decide how to go from there:

 

http://www.dyslexia.com/library/symptoms.htm

 

Third, we are a home of strong visual learners. Both my husband and I are as are both our boys. We all learned to read with phonics. My little guy is starting now but is already starting to decode. I also agree that if you want to give your child a strong foundation in phonics (if phonics work for the child, they don't for all visual learners) Spalding's method (WRTR) is one of the best out there. We are just starting out though so I was glad to see Colleen chime in :D. Even if your child does not learn well with phonics and you end up using a visual approach at first, you could revisit phonics at a later date, especially to help with spelling.

 

And now, our story with WWE. We did WWE 1 in first grade and had some issues with narrations. My son is not an auditory learner. We finished WWE 1 and I dropped it the following year, deciding instead to go with PLL. PLL worked well for us and it was a good break but it did not have the structure of FLL and WWE. I am grateful to the forum user that suggested I listen to SWB's writing lectures. I got the elementary one and quickly switched back to WWE. It just made so much sense to me! Now, we are also using Calvert and adding other supplements for LA also, but for writing and grammar, I am trusting my boys to SWB and her mom. It is the part of a classical approach that is working for us right now and we are sticking with it :).

 

I like the tweaks you made :)! Another tweak I made after reading the WTM earlier this year, was, I added audiobooks. Having strong visual learners I avoided them before. SWB and her mom made me realize that I should have worked on our auditory weaknesses instead of avoiding them. We now use audiobooks and I have my oldest look at the book while he listens. This and WWE have helped him greatly. I have also added a program on auditory memory called Hear Builder Auditory Memory by Super Duper Publications. You don't need to go that route just yet though. First clarify what you are dealing with. Do you have the main guide for WWE? You could use that without the workbooks and pick your own passages across the curriculum. This might work better for your daughter, especially for the time being :). It's a bit more work but it sounds like you have started doing that already anyway.

 

Good luck :)!

Edited October 17, 2012 by Guest

[Pen]

I've had some concerns about my eldest DD the last year because she didn't seem to be progressing in reading and writing skills in the "usual" way. She's bright and can memorize things easily, loves books, adores history and science, but she seemed to struggle with reading and writing. It was almost a resistance to reading more than a few sentences per page or writing more than a few words. Spelling was also not much fun to get through.

 

All the reading and research I did wasn't clicking until I read Dianne Craft's site about Visual-Spatial learners or right-brained learners. Now it made sense why she writes with her right hand but does cart wheels as a lefty--she has mixed dominance! No wonder she resists writing--she is not automatically retrieving letter formation, so it is a big struggle for her! Spelling is so complex: trying to associate sounds with letters and than reproducing them on a page was like a nightmare for her.

 

Not progressing in reading and writing skills--that specifically--more makes me think of something like dyslexia (or dyslexia/dysgraphia) than VSL. With VSL, I'd think you'd be seeing more evidence in all areas. OTOH doing WWE1 for first grade seems to me to be right on or advanced and no particular evidence of any trouble at all. Maybe she is normal or above average, but your expectations are higher?

 

What can she actually read fluently?

 

We've been doing some Brain Gym exercises at home: cross crawl, lazy 8s, etc, and I 've seen improvement in just a few weeks in her attitude and even her willingness to work. She will actually pick up a book and want to read it, which she wasn't doing on her own just a month ago.

Well, that's good. Have her abilities improved too? And again, what is she able to read?

 

So I think we are making progress, and I'm so glad that my "gut feeling" that something wasn't quite right is being validated.

 

With all of that background, my question is knowing how much work to expect from her. We are using WWE2--she ALWAYS picked the shorter of the 2 sentences in WWE1, but she doesn't have that option any more. I've set aside the dictation right now because it completely stresses her out. I've even changed the copywork to creating worksheets on a handwriting generator so that she can copy the letters; this has helped because we don't battle over copywork any more, but I'm wondering what is helping her and what is not letting her progress. (Even as I type this, I know it is individual for every kid, but any kind of guidelines to help me know when to expect more and when to just provide support would be helpful!)

 

For spelling, we took about a month off because it was just such a battle of tears and trials, and I remember SWB saying that tears, consistent ones anyway, are often a child's immature way of saying that something is too difficult. She doesn't know how to express the difficulty, so she just cries. So I have tried the visual spelling method (not sure if there is an official name) where I write out the spelling word and she draws a picture incorporating the letters of the word in some symbolic fashion. DD LOVES this and enjoys coming up with pictures for the spelling words. I am still struggling with how best to review these words, because as soon as I ask her to spell the word to me (orally, without writing it down), there are the tears again. I'm having a hard time of knowing what is difficulty and what is resistance to trying work. She's very dramatic in ALL areas of life, not just in schoolwork...

 

I think it would help to know more about what the problem is so as to know what is truly too hard for her.

 

I guess I'm just looking for a little help in knowing how much to assist her and give her confidence and how much to encourage her to try something a little bit difficult.

 

And any other advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks for sticking with me if you read through all of this!

 

Well, both assistance and encouragement are important! I'd suggest trying to figure out what is wrong (if anything) and then set her up for success at a level she can manage.

[lindsrae]

Thank you, 4evercanucks, for the links and articles. I haven't had my DD evaluated yet, but I did TONS of reading and researching. The dyslexic symptoms didn't seem to fit. I think the reason I felt the VSL "label" fit better was because it isn't so much an inability to do the work as the WAY is was asking her to complete the work was the problem. Not that I was speaking a foreign language but a different dialect. And yes, I think some of it has to do with her maturity level and maybe me having expectations that were not entirely realistic. But she is my firstborn, and my 4 year old loves to do schoolwork, so the comparison is difficult.

 

I read the Wash Post article, and I see the point. I taught in the PS system before I had my kiddos (high school, so elementary school is like a foreign language to me!), and it bothered me when there had to be a label for everything. But when it comes to MY child, I want to have as clear of an understanding as possible of what helps her to learn, and that's why I've been seeking answers. I haven't ruled out dyslexia or maybe needing an eval, but just modifying some of our work and doing Brain Gym exercises have made a difference in a matter of three weeks, so I'm grateful for that. And also grateful for all the support and help I've been given here!

[Guest]

Thank you, 4evercanucks, for the links and articles. I haven't had my DD evaluated yet, but I did TONS of reading and researching. The dyslexic symptoms didn't seem to fit. I think the reason I felt the VSL "label" fit better was because it isn't so much an inability to do the work as the WAY is was asking her to complete the work was the problem. Not that I was speaking a foreign language but a different dialect. And yes, I think some of it has to do with her maturity level and maybe me having expectations that were not entirely realistic. But she is my firstborn, and my 4 year old loves to do schoolwork, so the comparison is difficult.

 

I read the Wash Post article, and I see the point. I taught in the PS system before I had my kiddos (high school, so elementary school is like a foreign language to me!), and it bothered me when there had to be a label for everything. But when it comes to MY child, I want to have as clear of an understanding as possible of what helps her to learn, and that's why I've been seeking answers. I haven't ruled out dyslexia or maybe needing an eval, but just modifying some of our work and doing Brain Gym exercises have made a difference in a matter of three weeks, so I'm grateful for that. And also grateful for all the support and help I've been given here!

 

lindsrae, I was not trying to tell you to get an evaluation. Just pointing out some things for you to look at and consider. You know your child best ;). My boys don't have evaluations but I know what I am seeing so I am basing my approach on that. So far we have been working on weak areas and keeping up well. If the need arises, then I will get them evaluated.

 

All the best!

 

ETA: By the way, the label that fits us is not dyslexia. I was just trying to give you some direction on where to start, just as I wished someone had done for me. I had to figure things out on my own.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Guest

[Embassy]

Bringing creativity to many of my VSL's subjects really helps. Read alouds are difficult. Narration is difficult too. Spelling is a work in progress. I continue with areas of weakness while trying to bring his strengths into other subjects. I continued with phonics even though he was reading well. The phonics helped his spelling. Handwriting requires baby steps and consistency. Having a pen pal and a blog really encouraged my VSL to write more. I would try and let content subjects to be more creative. It is a challenge academically, but I love how my kid views the world.

 

BTW, I did get an evaluation to rule out dyslexia. If you are able to get one, I highly recommend it. The examiner didn't think my son had dyslexia.

[lindsrae]

lindsrae, I was not trying to tell you to get an evaluation. Just pointing out some things for you to look at and consider. You know your child best ;). My boys don't have evaluations but I know what I am seeing so I am basing my approach on that. So far we have been working on weak areas and keeping up well. If the need arises, then I will get them evaluated.

 

All the best!

 

ETA: By the way, the label that fits us is not dyslexia. I was just trying to give you some direction on where to start, just as I wished someone had done for me. I had to figure things out on my own.

 

Thank you :)

[lindsrae]

Bringing creativity to many of my VSL's subjects really helps. Read alouds are difficult. Narration is difficult too. Spelling is a work in progress. I continue with areas of weakness while trying to bring his strengths into other subjects. I continued with phonics even though he was reading well. The phonics helped his spelling. Handwriting requires baby steps and consistency. Having a pen pal and a blog really encouraged my VSL to write more. I would try and let content subjects to be more creative. It is a challenge academically, but I love how my kid views the world.

 

BTW, I did get an evaluation to rule out dyslexia. If you are able to get one, I highly recommend it. The examiner didn't think my son had dyslexia.

 

Creativity is not my strong suit, but I'm seeing that I need to think out side the box. I so appreciate all ideas and suggestions.

[rafiki]

.

[TippyCanoe]

nm

[Guest]

Doodler, you are comparing apples to oranges and I won't go down that road with you again. It would be nice though, for those that are actually interested in these theories, to provide a few links of all the research that has been done. I tried to find the Harvard one you mentioned in another thread and came up with nothing.

 

Have a nice day!

Edited October 18, 2012 by Guest

[LittleIzumi]

I wrote a huge long blog post about strengths/weaknesses and resources recently here: http://dancing-with-dragons.blogspot.com/

 

My dd just turned 7 and is a strong VSL with ADD.

[Lecka]

My son is not VSL but some of the overlap is good for him.

 

I get very upset when people will describe what sounds just like Overcoming Dyslexia-style dyslexia (poor phonemic awareness, helped by phonemic awareness, or something along those lines), and then seem to go, "Oh, there is a thing called VSL that has naturally-occurring late reading? Awesome! I will take that please."

 

I thought OP came across like -- VSL-style things have worked, looking for spelling suggestions that are not just orally spelling words. There are some things for that I use also with my son, and it is really fine not to orally spell words imo :)

 

I continue to think that there could be an effort made for the VSL websites to mention other possibilities to look into -- but I also think that if someone sees their child just fitting a couple of things (like my son) that maybe they need to look further, it is not the right choice, or maybe just a place to get some good ideas. Otoh of course other websites are not mentioning the VSL pattern so I realize it is a little overbearing of me.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Lecka

[rafiki]

nt

[herekittykitty]

I personally prefer the terms visual-spatial and audio-sequential to describe learning styles, not right-brained and left-brained. To me the latter is too simplistic and implies that differences exist because person A uses their left brain more and person B uses their right. Clearly it's more complicated than that.

 

However I absolutely believe that visual-spatial and audio-sequential learners exist, and that there are differences in how the brain processes information. These learning styles aren't any more or less of a theory than any other labels or diagnostic terms, like dyslexia, aspergers, or even depression. These are all terms that have been generated by people to describe a set of characteristics, traits or behaviors that have been observed and/or assessed. Linda Silverman at visualspatial.org is an example of someone who is studying and publishing about the visual spatial learner, along with a team of colleagues. I've found her site very helpful.

 

If you peruse through Linda and her team's articles, they do periodically discuss the bias of traditional teaching methods and curriculum toward the audio-sequential learner. They discuss that far more VSLs with high IQs end up referred for special education in public schools, simply because the methods don't align with how they learn, and they need a different approach. My own son is an example of this. He struggled in public school with phonics and breaking down words, but jumped grade levels after spending 30 hours doing Davis Dyslexia method - which is IMO the ultimate visual spatial reading program.

 

I totally agree with the suggestion to follow your instincts about your child. If the VSL information fits, follow that lead.

[rafiki]

nt

[Colleen in NS]

I thought OP came across like -- VSL-style things have worked, looking for spelling suggestions that are not just orally spelling words.

 

This is what I thought, too; that's why I talked about WRTR. lindsrae, now I see you updated your signature, and I'm seeing that you use WRTR for spelling - maybe it was in your signature before and I missed it! If so, I apologize. :D If you want to brainstorm about how to adapt any of the techniques to your daughter, I'd be happy to try to help. I don't use WRTR strictly as written, and I only use it for teaching how to read, how to spell, and how to print and do cursive. I love the precision of it, and how it uses four of five senses to help all sorts of learners to learn.

[momtoamiracle]

I personally prefer the terms visual-spatial and audio-sequential to describe learning styles, not right-brained and left-brained. To me the latter is too simplistic and implies that differences exist because person A uses their left brain more and person B uses their right. Clearly it's more complicated than that.

 

However I absolutely believe that visual-spatial and audio-sequential learners exist, and that there are differences in how the brain processes information. These learning styles aren't any more or less of a theory than any other labels or diagnostic terms, like dyslexia, aspergers, or even depression. These are all terms that have been generated by people to describe a set of characteristics, traits or behaviors that have been observed and/or assessed. Linda Silverman at visualspatial.org is an example of someone who is studying and publishing about the visual spatial learner, along with a team of colleagues. I've found her site very helpful.

 

If you peruse through Linda and her team's articles, they do periodically discuss the bias of traditional teaching methods and curriculum toward the audio-sequential learner. They discuss that far more VSLs with high IQs end up referred for special education in public schools, simply because the methods don't align with how they learn, and they need a different approach. My own son is an example of this. He struggled in public school with phonics and breaking down words, but jumped grade levels after spending 30 hours doing Davis Dyslexia method - which is IMO the ultimate visual spatial reading program.

 

I totally agree with the suggestion to follow your instincts about your child. If the VSL information fits, follow that lead.

 

 

 

 

I thought the same thing as I was reading the VSL info. Right or left brain doesn't really concern me, but his learning style does. VSL fits him in everything except reading. He excelled in phonics and is a terrific reader. But the other things I read explained him perfectly. I plan on reading more and see what other techniques I can implement.

[lindsrae]

This is what I thought, too; that's why I talked about WRTR. lindsrae, now I see you updated your signature, and I'm seeing that you use WRTR for spelling - maybe it was in your signature before and I missed it! If so, I apologize. :D If you want to brainstorm about how to adapt any of the techniques to your daughter, I'd be happy to try to help. I don't use WRTR strictly as written, and I only use it for teaching how to read, how to spell, and how to print and do cursive. I love the precision of it, and how it uses four of five senses to help all sorts of learners to learn.

No, you are correct. I just updated my signature today to reflect more accurately what we are doing. We've ditched Phonics Road but are using the spelling lists from WRTR (which are also in PR) because I also have that book. And I would LOVE additional suggestions on how to make spelling work better!!

[Embassy]

No, you are correct. I just updated my signature today to reflect more accurately what we are doing. We've ditched Phonics Road but are using the spelling lists from WRTR (which are also in PR) because I also have that book. And I would LOVE additional suggestions on how to make spelling work better!!

 

The examiner who tested my VSL recommended a program like Sequential Spelling. It is too early for me to know how effective it is, but I do see some improvement.

[Embassy]

Audio books and read-alouds are useless. He just can't keep his attention on them. I understand because I was the same way. I can remember anything I read myself, almost by picturing it in my mind. But, I'm incapable of listening to someone else read. My mind wanders almost immediately if I can't follow along with my own book.

 

 

 

This is so much like my ds. Read alouds have been a struggle. It took several years of baby steps for him to be able to sit and pay attention to a chapter book read aloud. He can now, but if it isn't interesting to him he will go off into his imagination where it is so much more interesting.

 

The funny thing is that for reading he does best when reading aloud. His comprehension is so much better when he reads a book aloud to me. I think it helps him focus on the story rather than just decoding words and focusing on the distractions of life around him.

 

Today I did a little "test" with him. Earlier this week he read a chapter in his book on his own and I quizzed him on the chapter to see what he retained. I used a quiz I found online. He probably got about 40% right. I had him reread the chapter and he missed even more the second time around. So today I alternated between him reading a page aloud and me reading a page aloud. I gave him a quiz at the end and he got most of them right.:glare: Guess we will continue to do reading together for now.

[TippyCanoe]

nm

[Guest]

However, I have listed on this forum, repeatedly, several books that have been helpful to me, including Tony Attwood's book and website on Asperger's, the Eides dyslexia book, their neurolearning blog... <snip>. All these books discuss right-brained learning and cite studies extensively.

 

The Eides link to research studies almost weekly in their blog: http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com

 

I did not read the entire book from the Eides ( Dyslexic Advantage). Since it didn't fit us I returned it to the library, but it was my understanding that they accept both sides of the brain as taking part in various functions. I was just reading something on the web about MRI testing showing that the right hemisphere dominates in the reading process for people with dyslexia, but also acknowledging the functions of the left side of the brain, even though its functions may have deficits. (ETA: The comment in the site I was reading was quoting the Eides)

 

I also own Attwood's book (Asperger's Syndrome) and while I have not finished reading it because I have been tied up with other books, I did a search (I have it on Kindle) and came up with nothing :confused:.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Guest

[Guest]

I personally prefer the terms visual-spatial and audio-sequential to describe learning styles, not right-brained and left-brained. To me the latter is too simplistic and implies that differences exist because person A uses their left brain more and person B uses their right. Clearly it's more complicated than that.

 

:iagree:I believe in the validity of learning modalities also. I am also looking into Gardner's multiple intelligences a bit more. I agree that the right/ left brain theories oversimplify the very complicated functions of the brain. Perhaps its the fact that the theories have been blown out of proportion in the more recent years.

 

However I absolutely believe that visual-spatial and audio-sequential learners exist, and that there are differences in how the brain processes information. These learning styles aren't any more or less of a theory than any other labels or diagnostic terms, like dyslexia, aspergers, or even depression. These are all terms that have been generated by people to describe a set of characteristics, traits or behaviors that have been observed and/or assessed. Linda Silverman at visualspatial.org is an example of someone who is studying and publishing about the visual spatial learner, along with a team of colleagues. I've found her site very helpful.

 

:iagree:just adding though that when it comes to the diagnosable labels there has been extensive research done on them in order for them to be accepted, much less have therapies for them, which are now covered by government or insurance medical plans.

[Colleen in NS]

No, you are correct. I just updated my signature today to reflect more accurately what we are doing. We've ditched Phonics Road but are using the spelling lists from WRTR (which are also in PR) because I also have that book. And I would LOVE additional suggestions on how to make spelling work better!!

 

Do you do the analysis taught in WRTR? What exactly do you do, and what kind of help do you need?

[TippyCanoe]

nm

[eoffg1]

Just don't ask for any peer reviewed research into left/right brain learners?

As it doesn't exist.

What you see with your left eye, and hear with your left ear, are processed in the visual auditory cortex on one side of the brain.

Your right eye and ear are processed on the other side of the brain.

Also with spacial processing and motor control. The left side of your body is controlled by one side of the brain, and the right side of your body, by the other side of the brain.

Then in the middle of the brain, is the brains operational centre, called the hippocampus. That brings both sides together.

Which is where our thinking occurs, and memory is formed.

 

So that the slight problem with this mythical left/right thinking, is simply that the brain doesn't work that way.

[Guest]

Just don't ask for any peer reviewed research into left/right brain learners?

As it doesn't exist.

 

I know ;)! I did my research. That made me quickly lose interest :)!

[herekittykitty]

iagree:just adding though that when it comes to the diagnosable labels there has been extensive research done on them in order for them to be accepted, much less have therapies for them, which are now covered by government or insurance medical plans.

 

You might be surprised by the process. I'm a licensed counselor who has had some involvement with the APA (American Psychiatric Association), and their process of what to include and not include in the DSM is less scientific and research-based than you'd think. It's very political and often insurance companies try to influence the process. Just because visual spatital and audio sequential learning styles are not included in the DSM says nothing about their validity. They DSM is about pathology, not learning styles, so they wouldn't be mentioned there.

 

Here is any interestng article about the DSM:

http://www.zurinstitute.com/dsmcritique.html

 

I do think the DSM can be useful, but it is a man-made tool with many biases.

Edited October 20, 2012 by herekittykitty

[Guest]

You might be surprised by the process. I'm a licensed counselor who has had some involvement with the APA (American Psychiatric Association), and their process of what to include and not include in the DSM is less scientific and research-based than you'd think. It's very political and often insurance companies try to influence the process. Just because visual spatital and audio sequential learning styles are not included in the DSM says nothing about their validity. They DSM is about pathology, not learning styles, so they wouldn't be mentioned there.

 

Here is any interestng article about the DSM:

http://www.zurinstitute.com/dsmcritique.html

 

I do think the DSM can be useful, but it is a man-made tool with many biases.

You'll get no argument out of me to anything you have said here. I am not very familiar with the evaluation process since we have not gone that route yet, but have looked into the DSM a bit as it seems to affect us here in Canada also.

[herekittykitty]

Using the term right-brained, in contrast, suggests that tweaking isn't necessarily sufficient and implies a need for a more global rethinking of what is appropriate. Right-brained kids need to be taught differently, sometimes VERY differently (Eides, Freed, Armstrong, Gaddis).

 

I completely agree with this, because this is my child - with a gifted IQ and struggled with traditional teaching methods in public school. At home we can finally do things the way he learns, and he is happier, and learning more. I would also recommend the books by Jeffrey Freed and the Eides, as well as Linda Silverman's "Upsidedown Brilliance."

 

Clearly there are people who passionately support these concepts, and people who are very much against them. I guess I don't really get the need to debate? If people find these concepts helpful in teaching their kids, then great. if I come across something here that doesn't apply to or make sense for us, but is helping others, it doesn't bother me if others support it. I guess what I'm saying is I respect whatever is helping people to teach their children, even if it doesn't make sense to/for me.

[Guest]

I guess I don't really get the need to debate?

 

No debate here :), at least not on my part. Just clarifications so that people can be informed about both sides of a story.

[rafiki]

nt

[Guest]

 

I read this article today and it made me think of the board.

 

http://www.stanford.edu/~joboaler/

 

Oh good grief! Walking away...

[LittleIzumi]

When people use the term VSL in homeschooling, I've noticed from these boards that they often think the only necessary tweaks are using some DVDs and computer games or curricula.

 

Oh, I WISH. :lol: That would be fantastic. We can watch Mythbusters and she's cured! All those math fact issues and reading/spelling issues and all the rest would just poof away. :lol: You can definitely accommodate a lot more with very careful curricula selection, but even that isn't enough, really. The entire structure of learning and the school day itself is different, different methods are used, etc, etc, etc.

 

No wonder I'm considering sending my non-VSL to a charter school next year. This VSL stuff takes a lot of work.