So now what do we do? DS11 Math Woes :(

[Canadianmumof5]

So we have been using Saxon here. It has worked very well. DS11 was half-way through 7/6 last school year when we essentially stopped doing any math with him. We had considered putting him back into B&M school and were worried that he was going to be way too far ahead of his grade peers; and the school offers zero enrichment so we didn't want him to be completely bored out of his mind. (in hindsight - very bad decision)

 

Anyway, fast forward to August/Sept and we started slowly. He didn't really do that well on his lessons - which I had attributed to the huge amount of time we had taken off; so we went back 20 lessons and started there.

 

I had him take Test #14 a couple of weeks ago which is where he was last year - and he BOMBED it. 6.5/20. He has never had a score below 17/20. So we spent the last couple of weeks specifically reviewing the key concepts that seemed to be the issue. We reviewed the new concept on the whiteboard & he did the lesson practice as well as the supplemental and he did GREAT!

 

I had him re-take Test #14 again this week and he BOMBED AGAIN! 8/20. And got most of the same questions wrong!!!! I don't get it. He understands the concepts, gets 95% of the questions right when he does the lessons/supplemental but then fails the test miserably???

 

So now what? Do we just stop & do major deep dive remedial on these concepts? Or do I just move ahead with the next 5 lessons and see what happens with the next test??

 

This is my DS who has always been very strong in math so I am totally confused :confused:

[Karen in CO]

How long has it been since you stopped math last year? What lesson were you on? Typical math books start with a pretty long review of concepts (sometimes a 1/3 of the book) to account for "summer brain drain" and to reinforce and reteach things that were previously weak. The longer you go without doing any math, the harder it is to get going again. If you had stopped near the middle the book then started again, I think you're going to have some serious trouble. At this point, you can have him redo the placement test to see where he currently fits. Also, look at those tests he bombed and see what lesson those concepts were taught in and reteach those lessons. OR, to keep from having to redo too much in the same program, you can find those concepts in the MM dark blue series and have him work through them. Or you can check placement into another program.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Karen in CO

[Canadianmumof5]

Thanks Karen.

 

We had stopped back in March......I know, I know, very bad decision. He was on Lesson #75 approx. And doing fabulous! So when I realized how little he had retained - we backed up to Lesson #55 or so.

 

I have literally been going through a lesson every day (just like before) and specifically focussing on the the concepts/questions that he got wrong on the test.

 

And he was doing great - no issues at all. Until he took the that same test again and got virtually the same results :confused: AFTER spending so much time reviewing those concepts - I was completely surprised.

 

He is normally very strong in math - hardly ever needs help - does it all independently so I am just at a loss here. How on earth could he bomb this test after doing so much intense review???? And doing so well with the review?

[wapiti]

Why did he get the problems wrong - did he forget how to do those problems or did he make careless errors in calculation? What does he think about why he missed them? I'd briefly review those same problems again and then give him another test (unless the problem goes to not really understanding concepts, though it doesn't sound like that's the case here).

 

We had considered putting him back into B&M school and were worried that he was going to be way too far ahead of his grade peers; and the school offers zero enrichment so we didn't want him to be completely bored out of his mind. (in hindsight - very bad decision)

Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but FWIW, should he get ahead again, being ahead of grade peers when he gets to the B&M school is not something I'd shy away from ever, but in particular as he heads toward middle and high school when higher level classes are usually available for kids advanced in math, unlike elementary school.

[Mrs.Mom]

I wonder if it is a motivation issue? What does he think of having failed the test? Is he baffled? Does he care? Maybe a long break made him just lose his motivation? Hmm.

[Canadianmumof5]

Why did he get the problems wrong - did he forget how to do those problems or did he make careless errors in calculation? What does he think about why he missed them? I'd briefly review those same problems again and then give him another test (unless the problem goes to not really understanding concepts, though it doesn't sound like that's the case here).

 

 

Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but FWIW, should he get ahead again, being ahead of grade peers when he gets to the B&M school is not something I'd shy away from ever, but in particular as he heads toward middle and high school when higher level classes are usually available for kids advanced in math, unlike elementary school.

 

I will go back & check.

He has a terrible habit of not showing his work (he doesn't think it is necessary) and doing it all in his head. But as he is seeing, as you get into more difficult concepts, it is not only necessary but critical to actually write it out.

 

Yep, not gonna hold him back anymore!! Nor am I going to take longer than a week off if math. He asked me today if he was going to be able to take some time off of his work when the new little one arrives next week. Originally my plan was to take a few weeks off and just read, read, read & do other fun educational games, etc. No way now!! I told him that we will take a break from everything EXCEPT math :D. He was not pleased.

[Canadianmumof5]

I wonder if it is a motivation issue? What does he think of having failed the test? Is he baffled? Does he care? Maybe a long break made him just lose his motivation? Hmm.

 

Hmmmm.........could be something to that.

He was complaining that his friends (who go to school) are doing long division in grade 6 so why does he have to do harder math. Plus he has mentioned that he doesn't have a report card and that seems to be an issue?

 

Thanks for the food for thought. Will think some more about that.

[thebacabunch]

Make him a report card! Give hime some motivation. He will catch up for sure. I don't let my kids go more than a week because they lose so much over the summer. Math is the only subject they have to do. I don't make them learn new things during the summer, just practice what they already know.

[kolamum]

Was he afraid he'd bomb again? I have a child, much like myself, that can know the material, but if they are given a test can over panic & then do terrible.

[Chris in VA]

Give him your own test. Don't tell him it's a test--just use some supplemental problems that cover the same things as on the "official" test. They are in the back of the book, I think. Even if you have to repeat some of the exact same problems, it's ok. See how he does when he doesn't think it's a test. That way you can tell if it's pressure/performance stress, that sort of thing, or actually being weak on the concepts.

 

And start requiring him to show ALL his work. In pre-Alg, esp, it's a good habit to get into. Have him rewrite the problem each time he does a step. In homework/non-test problems, hand him back the page if he neglects to do that, and redo it.

 

(Lastly, something we did that really helped cut down on errors was to give my dd a little time to go over her work before "handing it in." I had her look it over (this was 4th grade) the next morning, which allowed her to catch small computation/careless errors. Then I'd grade it in front of her. It made it easier for me to tell when it was careless stuff and when it was comprehension. She'd correct it on the spot,then we'd continue to the new lesson. It didn't add that much length to the math portion of our day. I'd always split it into two sessions, anyway, so she could do some of the problem set later in the day independently. This may or may not be relevent in your case.)

[Ellie]

Go back to the beginning and start over.

 

You're having him do all the problems in every lesson, yes? And any extra practice sets?

[SilverMoon]

Go back to the beginning and start over.

 

You're having him do all the problems in every lesson, yes? And any extra practice sets?

 

That's what I'd do.

 

If those mistakes were all simple calculation mistakes, rather than doing it wrong, I'd probably start out with some basic drills to get some of that brain rust sanded off before beginning lesson 1.

[Jim]

I agree with most of what's already been said, both it terms of strategy and motivation. His comparison of where he is compared to his peers stands out and leads me to an issue with motivation.

 

Starting over is certainly a possible solution. It would put him closer to where his peers are and if he managed to honestly do the work he would have a strong foundation. Another possibility is to start with the first test from that level (NOT the Saxon placement test) and walk forward, giving each test until he stumbles. That's what Art Reed suggests when a student appears to already know the material.

 

 

Jim

[...................]

Go back to the beginning and start over.

 

You're having him do all the problems in every lesson, yes? And any extra practice sets?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[momto2Cs]

Another possibility is to start with the first test from that level (NOT the Saxon placement test) and walk forward, giving each test until he stumbles. That's what Art Reed suggests when a student appears to already know the material.

 

 

Jim

 

:iagree:

[Canadianmumof5]

Give him your own test. Don't tell him it's a test--just use some supplemental problems that cover the same things as on the "official" test. They are in the back of the book, I think. Even if you have to repeat some of the exact same problems, it's ok. See how he does when he doesn't think it's a test. That way you can tell if it's pressure/performance stress, that sort of thing, or actually being weak on the concepts.

 

And start requiring him to show ALL his work. In pre-Alg, esp, it's a good habit to get into. Have him rewrite the problem each time he does a step. In homework/non-test problems, hand him back the page if he neglects to do that, and redo it.

 

(Lastly, something we did that really helped cut down on errors was to give my dd a little time to go over her work before "handing it in." I had her look it over (this was 4th grade) the next morning, which allowed her to catch small computation/careless errors. Then I'd grade it in front of her. It made it easier for me to tell when it was careless stuff and when it was comprehension. She'd correct it on the spot,then we'd continue to the new lesson. It didn't add that much length to the math portion of our day. I'd always split it into two sessions, anyway, so she could do some of the problem set later in the day independently. This may or may not be relevent in your case.)

 

Thanks for the tip about having a second peek with fresh eyes the next day. I am going to give that a try. And as annoyed as he gets, he is having to show his work. Trust me, I handed back his work to him several times yesterday: he finally got it after the 6th time!!! Crazy.

[Canadianmumof5]

Go back to the beginning and start over.

 

You're having him do all the problems in every lesson, yes? And any extra practice sets?

 

Yes he has no flex on the lesson practice or mixed practice. He has to do every question.

 

As for going all the way back to the beginning.......oh gosh, I hadn't even considered that. I think he would lose it.

[Canadianmumof5]

I agree with most of what's already been said, both it terms of strategy and motivation. His comparison of where he is compared to his peers stands out and leads me to an issue with motivation.

 

Starting over is certainly a possible solution. It would put him closer to where his peers are and if he managed to honestly do the work he would have a strong foundation. Another possibility is to start with the first test from that level (NOT the Saxon placement test) and walk forward, giving each test until he stumbles. That's what Art Reed suggests when a student appears to already know the material.

 

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim. Darn PS kids are messing with his mind/motivation :lol:

 

I will go back & start at test #1 next week & see what happens. My suspicion is that he will fly through the first 10-12 tests and then start having issues again. But I do think it is certainly a worthwhile exercise.