Rod & Staff phonics -- reviews & comments

[alisoncooks]

I didn't want to derail another thread, so I thought I'd start this one; anyone who would like to chime in, please do.

 

I tried many phonics programs before R&S (CLE LTR, AAR, Alpha-phonics, ETC, OPGTR, AiP, HOP). I was beginning to feel like Goldilocks, LOL (too much writing! over-uses special markings! doesn't teach phonics rules! too scripted! not enough guidance! :p)

 

Anyway, I avoided R&S for a long time but took a chance when I found it used, and I'm glad I did!

Some of the aspects that fit *our* family:

 

1. The price is right! I like that there are workbooks to use, but not too many to get through (Grd. 1 has 3 student workbooks). Also not a lot of extras to buy in order to do the program "right." You can add other components (flash cards, etc) but there's no juggling a dozen parts per lesson, KWIM? Teacher guide + student workbook = ready to go!
   
2. The guide is very open & go. It's scripted & written for a classroom setting, but easy to adapt (mostly just skipping sections meant for whole-group practice on the blackboard, etc).
   
3. It's incremental/progressive - the lessons build upon the previous. We also like that we can see our progress because each lesson is easily finished in a sitting (this was one of my main problems with AAR).
   
4. Lots of review built into a lesson, as well as multiple learning modalities. Not a lot of fun & games (HA!) but most lessons have an oral/listening segment, a written part (workbook), some word- or sound-building component (using "spelling blocks" which are basically paper letter tiles that you can cut out from the back of the workbook). We supplement with Starfall and some file folder games when we have an itch for "fun phonics."
   
5. The workbook has JUST ENOUGH writing for my daughter. ETC was too much (she absolutely could not do more than a page a day, which meant we were on one sound for.ev.er.) She just didn't like that, but R&S has a good bit of writing and she doesn't complain. I think it's because each lesson asks for answer to be shown a VARIETY of ways (circling, matching by drawing lines, reading a sentence & drawing a picture, marking a word for it's phonics rule, underlining things, coloring parts). Each lesson's work is a 2-page spread, easy to see, the books lay flat. I allow DD to take some short cuts (she HATES to color, so I let her just mark answers in the correct color to show she understands something, instead of coloring a whole picture...things like that).
   
6. I really like how sounds are presented. Some of the programs we used before blended sound-by-sound or by word family (onset+rime). DD just was not transferring that knowledge. She was painstakingly slow to sound out C------A------T and she couldn't take c----at and transfer that to s----at. (HOP teaches via word-family lists. Boring! Also I found that DD did a lot of guessing with that, for some reason.) Anyway, I don't know what it's called that R&S does, but we like it. Where we are now, it's blending consonants and vowels (sa se si so su, ta te ti to tu). DD has picked up on that quickly and already feels confident adding endings to make words.

 

 

We also do the Reading program that goes along with Grade 1, but the two do stand-alone. They also have a little series called "God is Good" for reading practice. We got those, too, just for extra reading practice.

 

HTH someone!

[2_girls_mommy]

It worked for me with 2 very different types of learners. It is very thorough as is everything of theirs.

 

I never see it recommended much, but I never was tempted to look for anything else for us. I just slowed it down when I needed to for one child, staying on one lesson longer, and let one child speed through it as the quick start to her homeschool day.

[Clear Creek]

I used R&S Phonics with my older two children, and I plan on using it with my youngest when he starts 1st grade. You couldn't pay me to switch to anything else. I have seen many other phonics programs, and none of them come close to the thoroughness and efficiency of R&S...at least not with the ease of use that R&S has.

 

One tip for when you get farther along...when you reach the point where there are word lists along the edge of the page on the right for each lesson, the way I used it was after my daughter read the word list for the current lesson, I flipped to the previous lesson and timed my daughter to see how many of the words in that column she could read in one minute. This really, really increased her fluency and reading speed. I didn't make her finish the list after the minute was up, I just circled the last word she had read. She liked trying to beat the number of words for the previous day, as well as looking back and seeing her progress.

[alisoncooks]

One tip for when you get farther along...when you reach the point where there are word lists along the edge of the page on the right for each lesson, the way I used it was after my daughter read the word list for the current lesson, I flipped to the previous lesson and timed my daughter to see how many of the words in that column she could read in one minute. This really, really increased her fluency and reading speed. I didn't make her finish the list after the minute was up, I just circled the last word she had read. She liked trying to beat the number of words for the previous day, as well as looking back and seeing her progress.

 

Great idea! Thanks. :)

Today was actually our first side list (sa se so su si, etc) and she actually liked it! This is the same kid that would dig in her feet at sounding out words and blending sounds.

 

So far, I'm very impressed with R&S.

[boscopup]

Thanks for that review!

 

We are using Dancing Bears and ETC right now. DB is our main reading program, and it is going well. It's gotten DS2 to read a lot easier. I add in ETC for the writing component, as DS2 likes to write and learns better if he is writing. I am happy to hear that R&S is actually less writing than ETC though, because sometimes it is a bit much in ETC! I can tell because the first part he writes the words correctly, and then towards the end, all the letters are made into cars. :lol:

 

After using and LOVING R&S Spelling with DS1, I wish I'd known to get R&S Phonics 2 for him when I pulled him out of school. I think that would have given him the phonics practice he needed in a compact enough way (we used AAS instead, which was expensive, though effective for what we needed). The spelling has been great for him, and he'll be getting to R&S Spelling 4 in a couple months, where the phonics looks a lot like Phonics 2. So he will get the material after all. :D

 

I've been thinking about R&S Phonics for DS2, though we're not switching to it right now. I want to finish this DB book right now, but I'm thinking for 1st grade, we might do R&S Phonics 1 and see how it goes. I know the beginning part will be a bit easy, but that's ok, because this child has confidence issues when it comes to reading. So easy is good.

 

The ONE thing that gives me pause is the "ba be bi bo bu" thing. Why? Because we did Webster's early on, and he knows that those syllables say, "/bay/ /bee/ /bye/ /boe/ /bue/", whereas R&S has them doing a short sound (very similar to Blend Phonics from the DonPotter.net site, btw). I could probably just skip over those short sounds though. DS2 is good at blending. He's been able to blend for almost 2 years now (started blending at just turned 4). It's recall of words that he struggles with. He just needs lots and lots and lots of practice, and then he progresses nicely.

[Clear Creek]

Thanks for that review!

 

We are using Dancing Bears and ETC right now. DB is our main reading program, and it is going well. It's gotten DS2 to read a lot easier. I add in ETC for the writing component, as DS2 likes to write and learns better if he is writing. I am happy to hear that R&S is actually less writing than ETC though, because sometimes it is a bit much in ETC! I can tell because the first part he writes the words correctly, and then towards the end, all the letters are made into cars. :lol:

 

After using and LOVING R&S Spelling with DS1, I wish I'd known to get R&S Phonics 2 for him when I pulled him out of school. I think that would have given him the phonics practice he needed in a compact enough way (we used AAS instead, which was expensive, though effective for what we needed). The spelling has been great for him, and he'll be getting to R&S Spelling 4 in a couple months, where the phonics looks a lot like Phonics 2. So he will get the material after all. :D

 

I've been thinking about R&S Phonics for DS2, though we're not switching to it right now. I want to finish this DB book right now, but I'm thinking for 1st grade, we might do R&S Phonics 1 and see how it goes. I know the beginning part will be a bit easy, but that's ok, because this child has confidence issues when it comes to reading. So easy is good.

 

The ONE thing that gives me pause is the "ba be bi bo bu" thing. Why? Because we did Webster's early on, and he knows that those syllables say, "/bay/ /bee/ /bye/ /boe/ /bue/", whereas R&S has them doing a short sound (very similar to Blend Phonics from the DonPotter.net site, btw). I could probably just skip over those short sounds though. DS2 is good at blending. He's been able to blend for almost 2 years now (started blending at just turned 4). It's recall of words that he struggles with. He just needs lots and lots and lots of practice, and then he progresses nicely.

 

R&S teaches the rules for when they are open or closed syllables. Yes, the beginning reading sounds are short vowels, but then they cover the long vowel sound along with the rules for why they have a long vowel sound. "Ba" is only pronounced /bay/ in specific conditions. Since "ba" by itself does not have any of those specific conditions satisfied when it is all by itself (i.e. followed by a consonant and a silent e, or as part of an open syllable), they teach it with the short vowel sound. But yes, I am sure you would be fine if you just skipped the first few lessons and started with the full words. :001_smile: And R&S will give him the lots and lots and lots of practice!

[BearWallowSchool]

:bigear:

[Guest mj7477]

The ONE thing that gives me pause is the "ba be bi bo bu" thing. Why? Because we did Webster's early on, and he knows that those syllables say, "/bay/ /bee/ /bye/ /boe/ /bue/", whereas R&S has them doing a short sound (very similar to Blend Phonics from the DonPotter.net site, btw). I could probably just skip over those short sounds though. DS2 is good at blending. He's been able to blend for almost 2 years now (started blending at just turned 4). It's recall of words that he struggles with. He just needs lots and lots and lots of practice, and then he progresses nicely.

 

Okay, I'm usually just a lurker....but I wanted to say this is what I really have a hard time getting over as well. Open syllables are long.

I was very close to using R & S Phonics for my ds this year, but that sa, se, si...etc. stuff drives me crazy. Maybe I'm missing something, though, because I lot of programs go that route.

[G5052]

Mine are teens now, but it fit our budget and goals at the time. We did Calvert or MFW Kindergarten, and then used R&S Phonics and Reading 1 and 2. At times we did one page a day, and at times we took a break from it and just read Bob Books and reviewed with Phonics Pathways.

 

I rarely hear about it, so I'm always glad when someone else likes it.

[sleeplessnights]

My daughter is using R&S phonics right now. She's in Year 1, near the end of Unit 2. It is way too much writing for her. She'll do the matching and circling, but she won't write more than a word or two. That said, we love it. It is quick (I do the writing), the sequence is faster than ETC, and we love the edge lists. She loves keeping track of how many she gets right on the chart in the back of the book.

 

We also do the accompanying Printing Practice book, which is just enough writing for her. It's nice that the printing practice (copywork) coordinates with the phonics lesson.

 

Although she's starting to read Magic Tree House Books, we will probably continue in order to solidify the more difficult phonics patterns.

[Ellie]

I shall be out standing in my field once again. :D

 

R&S's first grade Bible Nurture and Reader materials is my least favorite product.

 

The *phonics* part is fine; I can't say it does better than or not as good as anything else, because it's just phonics. Instead of the BNRS materials, I could go with "We Learn Letter Sounds," which is 30 lessons presenting the phonics that is taught in the BNRS materials.

 

The *reading* portion is sight-reading. I could never recommend it.

 

It is true that you don't have to be a professional educator to teach, because the teacher manuals are scripted--all you have to do is follow the plan.

 

But I just can't recommend anything that is sight-reading based, and that's what the reading portion of BNRS is (250 word flash cards, 227 phrase cards, which the dc are supposed to memorize=sight reading).

[alisoncooks]

The *reading* portion is sight-reading. I could never recommend it.

 

Yep, it does have sight-words. Here's the rationale that R&S gives on their webpage, for those that are wondering:

We have found, as other researchers have also concluded, that a strictly phonetic approach to reading hinders comprehension, whereas a strictly sight-reading approach impedes both reading and comprehension. The Bible Nurture and Reader Series uses a combination of phonics and sight-reading: the students learn to read a few words by sight immediately, thereby getting off to a prompt start in comprehension; phonics is taught from the very beginning, enabling the child to sound out words for himself.

 

This approach to teaching reading is employed in this series for the following reasons:

 

1. Learning the sounds enables a child to identify most of the vocabulary words for himself. It takes no longer to learn sounds that compose words than it does to memorize whole words, and the phonetic sounds are the tools that enable the child to sound out every new word that he sees. Phonics gives the child an orderly way of learning to read. He sees that words are composed of small parts, sounded consecutively.

 

2. Since the child is able to sound words for himself and to become an independent reader early, the phonetic method gives him a meaningful, challenging, and satisfying approach to the learning of words.

 

3. In a classroom setting, the phonetic method makes it easier for the teacher to keep the learning progress of all the pupils in a class together. In the sight-reading approach, the children who have difficulty recognizing and remembering sight words become confused and frustrated and drop behind others in the class and are left with no means or tools with which to recover themselves.

 

4. Phonetic sounds are more easily remembered than sight words because the child continues to use them with regularity. He is far more ready to begin the second grade after the vacation months, during which time a child usually forgets many of the sight words he has memorized, because the basic phonetic sounds are retained more easily and are more readily recalled.

 

5. An effective study of phonetics requires disciplines necessary for the development of good habits such as good listening, concentration, diligence, perseverance, and acceptance of personal responsibility.

 

Developing comprehension is another objective of the series. To comprehend, children must learn to think. Many subjective-type questions have been used in the Bible Nurture and Reader Series that require the pupils to think. Few pictures are included in the readers, since comprehension is improved when pupils are allowed to form their own mental images.

 

I'm all for phonics, but I am not anti-sight words (within moderation), so this fact doesn't bother me a bit...

[Ellie]

Yes, I've seen those before, and I just go back to "Why Johnny Still Can't Read." :)

[Heidi]

We are doing R&S phonics 1 this year for 1st grade. The only reason we are doing it is because dd6 wanted more workbook school work to do, so it is my filler busy-work for her.

I personally think the O-G method is a clearer way to teach phonics. Dd6 completed Phonics Road level 1 in K, which was wonderful! Learning all the sounds of the phonograms and knowing how to mark them in a word, along with the spelling rule tunes, equals a solid understanding of phonics and spelling.

So... R&S phonics... it is ok. I'm using it without the TM. It might be better with the TM.

[Sharilynn29]

It's great to see the different reviews of R&S. My dyslexic 8yo dd is currently using R&S phonics and reading unit 2 along with AAS 1 (lesson 20) and Why Johnny Can't Read. I find that they all compliment each other well. My dd learns well with sight words, but I am trying to give her a strong phonics foundation as well. We just purchased snapwords to give that visual for over 600 of the most common words.

 

I feel like I'm covering the bases. None of it contradicts each other. The phonics in one correlates well to the phonics in another, which correlates well to the sight words. She then notices how the phonics rules fit into the words that she has learned "by sight."

 

Another thing I love about R&S is the repetition. Now that my dd has been using their phonics and reading for a while, she can often pick it up and go with little instruction. It moves at a great pace.:001_smile:

[lotsofpumpkins]

We like R&S Phonics here too. My oldest two dc went through the 1st and 2nd grade books, my third dc is finishing up the 1st grade books, and my 4th child just started the 1st grade books. I've tried other programs and came back to R&S because I just like it better! (And it works; my dc are really good readers.)

[alisoncooks]

Yes, I've seen those before, and I just go back to "Why Johnny Still Can't Read." :)

 

I've never read that, and I'd like to. Do you prefer the updated (1980s?) edition or the original?