Is anyone else baffled by self educating homeschoolers?

[Dmmetler]

What I have figured out works well for my DD7 is kind of a piano lesson model-we sit together, do a structured, focused 1-1 lesson, and then she practices on her own for several days, largely independently, repeat. She likes being independent, but doing those regular lessons a couple of times a week keeps her from getting too far afield and provides the feedback she needs. We also plan out her weekly routine, including when such checks are going to happen, at the start of the week. There are some subjects which are always "do together", but far fewer than I expected. If I had another child to teach, I might welcome it, but honestly, at times I feel almost unnecessary, and it bothers me a bit.

[...................]

Providing materials and being available to answer questions and offer guidance is a far cry from child neglect or educational neglect.

 

Yeah, I agree. ... the kids know a lot of material, and score well on SAT's and have all the basics covered. They are not unschoolers at all.

[misidawnrn]

Not going to happen here either! My 3rd grader needs to still be told to take a shower, let alone do all of her work on her own accord.

[mamakven]

Ok, so i'm not ENTIRELY sure i understand exactly what Calderwood is promoting, i'll have to check it out, but if i'm understanding it correctly, its much like we school- we have a minimal amount of group work in the morning, and the rest of the day is devoted to whatever each student would like to learn. For example, Nik, my 13yo is currently working on 1 year adventure novel and is fascinated with dinosaurs... so all his extra time goes to that- either that or extra history. I make sure they have some basics in the morning- math, language, history, art, science, but they can take what they like and bunny trail on their own with plenty of time to do so.

 

The reasons we switched from a more lockstep WTM approach to this is because in reading John Holt and others regarding what children learn, and by observing my own children and myself, it became evident that i could "teach" them until i was blue in the face if i wanted to- but i can't make them LEARN anything. That is their choice, and they are FAR more likely to get a good quality education, albeit less balanced, perhaps if they follow their interests. And let's face it, most of us don't need balance, we need functionality in the world and specific skills. When my now 17yo aspie was 5, i'd limit his lego time, in favor of more "important" subjects, despite him building elaborate stru ctures which i had no idea were WAY beyond grade level ability, now he's a senior in highschool going to his second year of college, just finished calc 3 and plans to be an engineer. Its not because i forced him to do extra history either :) I've learned a lot from these little people and that's one thing i've gleaned that has heavily impacted how i'm schooling them now.

 

Of course this only works in an environment that is free of distractions- tv, computer games, wii, etc. only happens saturday afternoon in our house so pretty much everything they are doing is educational.

[Blossom'sGirl]

I haven't read the other responses, but I was impressed when I came across a 9th grade boy seriously researching his own curriculum at the last used curriculum sale I attended. In contrast, my 9th grade ds was outside messing around the whole time. In my ds's defense, he is getting fairly independent, but I still like to be able to help him if needed.

 

I think one of the bigger challenges of self-teaching is pronunciation. DS sometimes mispronounces words he reads as has never heard them said aloud. We were pronouncing "demonstrative" completely wrong for a long time until MIL heard and corrected us.

[mamakven]

I haven't read the other responses' date=' but I was impressed when I came across a 9th grade boy seriously researching his own curriculum at the last used curriculum sale I attended. In contrast, my 9th grade ds was outside messing around the whole time. In my ds's defense, he is getting fairly independent, but I still like to be able to help him if needed.

 

I think one of the bigger challenges of self-teaching is pronunciation. DS sometimes mispronounces words he reads as has never heard them said aloud. We were pronouncing "demonstrative" completely wrong for a long time until MIL heard and corrected us.[/quote']

 

YEP! agreed! and this is a BIGGIE! if they take control of their own learning, they will do the same in college. I'm finding this is true with my ds now. doing GREAT in college.

[Mommy22alyns]

About a year ago, before I actually started homeschooling (:glare:) I had this vision that Miss P would mostly work independently, and that I'd have no trouble overseeing her work, running my business, being involved in Mo's school, keeping the house together, etc . . .

 

Now, the reality is completely different. By trial and error, figuring out her learning style and my teaching style, and the level of work she needs to be challenged, we have converged on a set of materials and teaching practices that are, well, teacher intensive. This child learns best by being engaged, and she becomes engaged best by reading and having discussions. Together. With me. Her eyes glaze over with workbooks. Oh, she'll do them, she's a very pleasant and compliant child, but she doesn't learn anything - she goes on autopilot and pattern-matches, and none of the material actually enters her brain.

 

Is this rocking my world? Well, yeah. It's more exciting, amazing, humbling, and wonderful than I ever imagined. It's also completely impossible to go on with "life as usual" and just add on homeschooling. I'm coming to realize how all encompassing this is - how it is, really and truly, a *profession* that I have taken on. So that's daunting, because now I have to figure out how to make the rest of my life work. Daunting, and exhilarating. No regrets, but I am far from having it all figured out, too.

 

Now, could I load her up with workbooks so that she could work completely independently? Well, sure, but how would that be different from what she'd be doing in ps? What would be the point?? What would I be missing out on, in terms of our relationship and her intellectual, personal, social, and spiritual development?

 

So no, my kid doesn't work independently. And we're both really happy with that fact. Figuring out how to incorporate her interests, and involve her in the planning of her education, and working toward the goal of her becoming a self-educating, lifelong-learning adult? Yes, this is a constant challlenge. But having my 9 year old self-educate is not even on the radar screen of my goals. For all the great reasons others have mentioned, but also because I really, really dig being a part of this part of her life.

 

 

Yes!! :iagree:

[Sahamamama]

Popping in here, haven't read the whole thread... :blush:

 

I suppose it's possible and probably preferable with certain students to move toward greater ownership of their learning. Even with my 2nd grader, I can see how she enjoys taking charge. This morning, I realized she was nearly finished with the teacher-intensive work for the week, but there were some loose ends to tie up before Saturday night.

 

Rather than be Drill Sergeant Mom, I listed her work on our whiteboard, along with an "M" for "do with Mom," and a note: "Must be completed by Saturday evening." There's a sleepover with a cousin at her grandmother's house on Sunday night, LOL, so that's the motivating factor here.

 

I said, "You have this and this and this to get done. It's up to you when and how you start. I'm available until ___ tonight, then again all day tomorrow from ___ until ___. All the work must by done by ___ tomorrow evening, if you want to go to the sleepover." :D

 

 

 

• French (listen to EP, Unite 1; answer questions in French NB; review vocab)
  
• English (work w/M; Grammar, FLL, Lesson 6)
  
• Math (work w/M; 1 hour on Friday; 1 hour on Saturday)
  
• Latin (complete Lesson 4; review vocab; practice Dona Nobis)
  
• Music Theory (work w/M; Theory book; note speller; review treble clef & bass clef; review notes
  
• Recorder (practice pages ___ to ___; set timer for ___ mins.)
  
• Bible Study (read pages ___ to ___ in ___; meet w/M to discuss Genesis)
  

 

So far, she's finished French, Latin, Music Theory, and one hour of Math. She's reading through her Bible Study lesson, and then we'll wrap that up, too. She's asked to do English (grammar) with me once that's done. I haven't said anything, except to say that I'm available for another hour today, and the work must be done by tomorrow night. We'll see...

 

On the other hand, I think it's worth noting that Joanne Calderwood is selling something -- as in "this is a secret I reveal in my seminars and writings" -- so of course we're going to hear whatever sells the product.

[Sahamamama]

When I started the thread, I was musing on my children and their silliness, and learning styles, ....and also wondering how in the world they produce children who will sit and do schoolwork without outside motivation. And, I was truly wondering if I'm short changing my kids or myself in some way. Remember, the articles in HSE come across as that

 

1. Anyone can do this method if they persevere

2. Everyone who feels overwhelmed at times should try this method

3. This method will erase all homeschooling stress.

 

I just can't imagine, under any circumstances, my kids quietly sitting with their schoolwork every day, the way theirs do. That's the part that's baffling, not the idea of self education or the reasons to try it.

 

And if someone publishes books, articles, and a website, and It's in every issue of my favorite homeschool magazine, it's worth thinking about and pondering.

 

:iagree:I'm glad you started the thread, no need for apologies! :D And I agree, the articles do come across that way -- "Try this! It worked for us, it'll work for you!" :glare:

[Alicia64]

It wouldn't work with my kids. My 10 year old is FINALLY starting to get more independent. I still have to be around. I'm ok with that though.

 

:iagree: My nine year old boys are starting to show independence, but love having me around involved in their lesson day. One of my sons does better in math when I just sit with him and literally watch him do the problems. He acts very proud. When I get onto other things his loneliness issues kick in.

 

Alley

[Walking-Iris]

:iagree: My nine year old boys are starting to show independence, but love having me around involved in their lesson day. One of my sons does better in math when I just sit with him and literally watch him do the problems. He acts very proud. When I get onto other things his loneliness issues kick in.

 

Alley

 

This is my ds. He's capable but leave his side for a second and he starts doodling or looking out the window. I've said a million times to just keep going if I walk away. No need to stop just because I go to change a diaper. :glare:

 

He's completely capable of reading instructions and figuring things out. But he's not a self starter. He won't voluntarily pick up a math book and start working in it. One of the reasons I ditched unschooling/interest led homeschooling a long time ago. I have to tell him what to do. We have a routine but he still bucks against it. He procrastinates and dawdles. "Piddling" as my dh calls it.

 

I have made charts and lists until I'm sick of them. I have done various workbox systems and he just has no interest in anyone else's agenda but his own. And what he wants to do will not get him anywhere near functional numeracy or literacy. :glare: "No dear you cannot read Captain Underpants and play Poptropica for the rest of your life."

 

He actually does very well in his studies when pushed to just.do.it! That lack of "drive" concerns me. Especially since he is bright and capable.

 

Those of you who have said you have young ones (4th grade or younger) doing independent work-- how did you get to that point? I'm not interested in the independence that the OP is talking about. But I would like to be able to give a lesson and assign some pages to work or read etc and walk away knowing that he will work at it. I have two other kids and I can't sit at his elbow for every single Saxon math problem. That subject (math) I would especially like him to start working independently. Meaning he can go to his room or wherever and keep working on the lesson (after I do some preliminary teaching) until it's done.

 

I'd also like to get to a point where I can ask him to read some of his history or science on his own. I would still elaborate and converse about it, and even read it with him, but I would like him to be able to follow the directions of others and complete assignments and understand the responsibility.

 

Do you just tell and expect no resistance? Or do you give an assignment checklist and say "no such and such until xyz is finished?" How to deal with the discipline issue underlying some of this stuff!

[SunnyDays]

We're not fully independent here... DS is only a fourth grader. But I plan with an eye to working further toward independence. Not total... but higher levels of independence each year.

 

It's just our personality. For instance, as we choose math curriculum, we both reject any programs where we have to sit down and have a scripted lesson each day. Neither of us want that. Right now we have MM, where the lessons are written to the student. I glance over new material and am available for questions. Usually I tell him to read the material and see if he needs help with it. Usually he doesn't, so we just occasionally go over it together. There are many other subjects we work together on, but there are never days where it's so teacher intensive I have to sit with him all day. Again, it probably boils down somewhat to our choices of curriculum.

 

I don't believe in handing a student a stack of books and telling them, have fun, go educate yourself. I think it's a stretch to call it educational neglect if someone does that, though. There are many older students who learn well that way.

[Snoopytwo]

They are using Abeka, which is pretty reasonable to use this way. If they weren't, it's hard to imagine this being possible. What they are doing is school at home, and they are defining success as learning what is in the books and passing the tests. That is qualitatively different from classical homeschooling, and I can well imagine that it would be much easier on the parent. It would also drive me crazy, and if I had done this with my DD, it would have killed her creativity, no question, hands down. But she would have had a pretty good body of knowledge, but it would not have been customized in any way. If that had been the only way to keep my DD home when I started working, I would have done it--thankfully it was not. (I actually seriously considered something similar.) I think that homeschoolers who use nothing but Abeka all the time are taking an easy road that is not usually the best one but does get the job done, which is pretty much the author's point. But I don't think that that is remotely comparable to what we are doing here, with customized, thoughtful selection of material and teaching that is fine tuned to the child.

:iagree:Reading a textbook and then filling out a worksheet is not my idea of a quality education. If I wanted that, I would send them to public school.