FLL2 = Eyes glazing over

[southernm]

We used FLL1 with DS7 last year and it was ok, but this year it seems worse. It's just so boring. His verbal IQ places him in the PG category, but he is also dyslexic and dysgraphic. I would love to foster his vocabulary as well. I can't stand the "say everything 3 times". We do use WWE2 and that is going fine. Any suggestions? The two programs he is really loving is Reading First (on the computer) and AAS. Something computer based would probably be ideal!

[SilverMoon]

Modify. Skip totally redundant lessons. Double up on the easier ones. Since you're doing this with your kid, you'll know best where he needs review and where he can just spit the rule back at you and move on.

 

If he can do the lesson blindfolded with an arm tied behind his back, tell him his grammar lesson is over for the day.

 

When I see "repeat 3 times" I start by asking my kids if they can tell me the definition of verb. If they get it right we move on; if they need review, we say it together a few times and move. Mine all had those definitions down pat long before the book stopped saying we ought to work on them.

 

Consider the book a tool to use as you see fit, not something that must be adhered to strictly.

[NancyNellen]

Modify. Skip totally redundant lessons. Double up on the easier ones. Since you're doing this with your kid, you'll know best where he needs review and where he can just spit the rule back at you and move on.

 

If he can do the lesson blindfolded with an arm tied behind his back, tell him his grammar lesson is over for the day.

 

When I see "repeat 3 times" I start by asking my kids if they can tell me the definition of verb. If they get it right we move on; if they need review, we say it together a few times and move. Mine all had those definitions down pat long before the book stopped saying we ought to work on them.

 

Consider the book a tool to use as you see fit, not something that must be adhered to strictly.

 

:iagree:

[Kathryn]

Modify. Skip totally redundant lessons. Double up on the easier ones. Since you're doing this with your kid, you'll know best where he needs review and where he can just spit the rule back at you and move on.

 

If he can do the lesson blindfolded with an arm tied behind his back, tell him his grammar lesson is over for the day.

 

When I see "repeat 3 times" I start by asking my kids if they can tell me the definition of verb. If they get it right we move on; if they need review, we say it together a few times and move. Mine all had those definitions down pat long before the book stopped saying we ought to work on them.

 

Consider the book a tool to use as you see fit, not something that must be adhered to strictly.

 

:iagree: too. A lot.

[Crimson Wife]

My oldest is an auditory learner and she did fine with a condensed version of FLL 1/2. My 2nd is a visio-spatial learner and he had NO retention with FLL 1/2. So I put is aside in favor of Michael Clay Thompson's Grammar Island.

[Spryte]

Your kiddo sounds a lot like mine.

 

We skip lessons, zoom through lessons, or change them as needed. :D

[boscopup]

Do you have a tablet? I use KISS Grammar on my tablet (it can also be printed out, but it's more fun for the kid to mark up sentences on the tablet ;) ).

 

We used FLL a year ahead and still found it too slow until I switched to level 3. It was easy at that level, but not mind-numbingly slow for my son who picks up grammar easily.

 

While doing FLL, we never repeated things 3 times. She reviews that stuff enough that we both had it memorized quickly by just saying it once.

 

But really, if he thinks FLL is too easy, I highly recommend looking at KISS. It's challenging because it uses real literature. The kid really learns the parts of speech instead of just following a pattern.

[PeterPan]

Ditto the others on modifying. We did the first lesson where each new concept was introduced. We memorized the defs. Ditch the rest. It's really not worth that much time. Nail those things and MOVE ON. At that age my dd was doing CW A, rewrites of fables, that sort of thing, ie. applied grammar.

[FairProspects]

Ok, as a Mom of a dyslexic/dysgraphic, I'm going to slightly disagree here, although I suspect it probably depends on the type of dyslexic you have (my ds could never do what OhE's was doing at this age, but his strengths are much more spatial/building/math).

 

Yes absolutely modify, but we dropped FLL 2 last year and this year I seriously regret it. Why? Because now we are wanting to move on into MCT grammar which assumes a kid knows what a noun, pronoun, and adjective are or can pick up the meanings easily with very little explicit instruction. Thanks to FLL 1, ds does know what a noun and a pronoun are because he had to repeat them 100 times even though he hated it. However, we dropped it before ds memorized the definition of an adjective and now he struggles with applying them in stories/exercises because he uses up so much cognitive power trying to recall what an adjective is.

 

FLL can be dry and boring, but for many dyslexics who struggle with word recall, meanings, and language processing, the repetition is exactly what they need so they have a memorized rule to fall back on when they forget the meaning of the word "adjective".

 

Moral of the story is we are back to FLL 2 w/o the copywork, as well as MCT Island, but we've lost some time in between and I won't do that again. From now on I will use something for both the big picture (MCT) and the details (FLL) of grammar.

Edited September 10, 2012 by FairProspects

[Crimson Wife]

I didn't find that MCT "island" assumes the child has had any previous grammar instruction. DS did know many of the parts of speech from watching Grammar Rock cartoons, playing Mad Libs, and my reading him Brian P. Cleary books. However, Grammar Island teaches 8 of the parts of speech (articles are lumped in with adjectives, which I personally disagree with).

[FairProspects]

I didn't find that MCT "island" assumes the child has had any previous grammar instruction. DS did know many of the parts of speech from watching Grammar Rock cartoons, playing Mad Libs, and my reading him Brian P. Cleary books. However, Grammar Island teaches 8 of the parts of speech (articles are lumped in with adjectives, which I personally disagree with).

 

It doesn't assume that the child knows parts of speech, but the definition is on one page, and on the very next the student is supposed to pick out the adjectives from a list of words. That was way too fast of a progression from meaning to application for my dyslexic. But ds has serious problems with vocabulary/word recall (in fact that may be his biggest dyslexic weakness) so I don't know if this would be a concern for other dyslexics or not.

 

I agree with you about the articles and adjectives. That was the first point in the book where I did a double-take.

[southernm]

I will take a look at MCT and KISS. Vocabulary is definitely his strong point so I'd like to find something that plays into that!

[angelmama1209]

Modify. Skip totally redundant lessons. Double up on the easier ones. Since you're doing this with your kid, you'll know best where he needs review and where he can just spit the rule back at you and move on.

 

If he can do the lesson blindfolded with an arm tied behind his back, tell him his grammar lesson is over for the day.

 

When I see "repeat 3 times" I start by asking my kids if they can tell me the definition of verb. If they get it right we move on; if they need review, we say it together a few times and move. Mine all had those definitions down pat long before the book stopped saying we ought to work on them.

 

Consider the book a tool to use as you see fit, not something that must be adhered to strictly.

 

exactly, just because it's written doesn't mean you HAVE to sayor do it JUST like that. My kiddo memorizes definitions (and most poems) the first day. after that, i just ask her to tell me and we move on.

[PeterPan]

Ok, as a Mom of a dyslexic/dysgraphic, I'm going to slightly disagree here, although I suspect it probably depends on the type of dyslexic you have (my ds could never do what OhE's was doing at this age, but his strengths are much more spatial/building/math).

 

Yes absolutely modify, but we dropped FLL 2 last year and this year I seriously regret it. Why? Because now we are wanting to move on into MCT grammar which assumes a kid knows what a noun, pronoun, and adjective are or can pick up the meanings easily with very little explicit instruction. Thanks to FLL 1, ds does know what a noun and a pronoun are because he had to repeat them 100 times even though he hated it. However, we dropped it before ds memorized the definition of an adjective and now he struggles with applying them in stories/exercises because he uses up so much cognitive power trying to recall what an adjective is.

 

FLL can be dry and boring, but for many dyslexics who struggle with word recall, meanings, and language processing, the repetition is exactly what they need so they have a memorized rule to fall back on when they forget the meaning of the word "adjective".

 

Moral of the story is we are back to FLL 2 w/o the copywork, as well as MCT Island, but we've lost some time in between and I won't do that again. From now on I will use something for both the big picture (MCT) and the details (FLL) of grammar.

 

BTW, we went to Shurley after FLL1/2. It's not like she was some grammar genius. :D Indeed she needed a lot of repetition (Shurley), and a really straightforward presentation that leads them right into the answers (Shurley), and patterns she could follow (Shurley). So no, she was never a candidate for KISS. It just happens that memorizing definitions is easy. Applying them is harder. We also did Mad Libs along with FLL2, as I recall.

 

When we had her evaluated, her language skills turned out to be stronger than we realized. It's just an odd mix, because for her the low processing speed drags everything into the dust. Like the op said, it's this weird balance of brains and problems, incongruities. So you can separate out memorizing definitions (what FLL1/2 is really good for) and application. No, we didn't do any of the FLL copywork or narrations or poetry memorization or anything, bleh.

[Mommy22alyns]

Double up on or skip lessons. Only make him say it 1-2 times if he's getting it.

[UmMusa]

Where can I learn more about KISS Grammar? Today we started FLL2 with my 2nd grader, so I will be sure not to be so rigid when we get to lessons that are easy for her. She loves it so far and is very eager, so I want to not kill that for her.

[boscopup]

Where can I learn more about KISS Grammar? Today we started FLL2 with my 2nd grader, so I will be sure not to be so rigid when we get to lessons that are easy for her. She loves it so far and is very eager, so I want to not kill that for her.

 

http://home.pct.edu/~evavra/kiss/wb/PBooks/index.htm

 

There is a 2nd grade level 1 book that is different from the 3rd grade level 1 book. In general, you start at level 1 and progress through to the end of level 5. Once you've done that, you're done with grammar. No starting over with "This is a subject" at the beginning of every year. They remember it because they've been finding the subject in every sentence since day 1. ;) It just gradually adds on new things to look for in a sentence, and you analyze real sentences for everything you know so far.

 

The one thing I think would make life a bit easier is if the prepositional phrases were taught earlier (they're towards the end of level 1). Sometimes I have to point out the prepositional phrases first, then we can more easily see the rest of the sentence. That's how I was taught in school, and my son is good at finding prepositional phrases (he learned about them in FLL3). Otherwise, I love the progression, and I love that real literature is used, so you can't tell what something is by the position in the sentence.

[UmMusa]

Yay! I might use this for my 5th grader too!

[boscopup]

Yay! I might use this for my 5th grader too!

 

You'd probably want the level 1 grade 6 book for that child. The grade levels only determine source material. The concepts taught are the same. You can even go partway through one level in one grade book, then hop over to a different grade book and pick up at the same exercise number.