A child who needs to be taught everything explicitly - is there a hope ?

[Ummto4]

I have a 10 yo son who needs to be taught everything explicitly and whatever taught has to be taught incrementally and reviewed endlessly. Also, it takes more time for him to understand something.

E.g.

- how to write ... as in penmanship. Even now sometimes he writes his t and i from the bottom.

- how to write a sentence.

- how to use a ruler, including how to make a table, how to divide a paper into columns, etc.

- how to write a title and the fact that he should skip a line or two after the title , and that a title should be centered.

- the right side of the paper.

- and many things which I thought should not take that long to learn.

 

If you have experience with this kind of child, please tell me that there's a hope ...:). I'm tired.

 

He's always kind of 'end of the spectrum' child within the normal range. So instead of walking at 12 months, he walked at 15 months. Instead of flipping over at 4-5 months, it took just over 6 months to flip over. And instead of crawling at 8 months, he crawled when he just turned 10 months.

 

He couldn't write anything till 6.5 yo at which point I had to start him with HWT (preK level). It took 2 months to teach him blending when he's 6, but fortunately, by the time he's 6.5 he could read (well, he finished the primer).

 

So eventually things work out. Last IOWA which he took at the end of 4th grade shows that he's working at 5.1 grade, which makes him just on target (and provides me with a great relief).

 

Now, is there a hope for this kind of boy ? Other than these, he's a kind and sweet boy. Very helpful.

 

Unfortunately, my circle of friends consists mostly immigrants w/ engg.and comp-based occupations (high earners) and their kids are mostly above average (you know, full of honors, G/T kiddos, this and that certificates of achievement, this and that scholars, valedictorian, etc). So my view of what constitutes average can be skewed, but my heart aches for my son. How can he survive as an adult in a competitive world ?

 

Pls, if you have this kind of child, share your experience and what you've done to make this child thrive in outside world.

 

Thanks.

Edited September 3, 2012 by mom2moon2

[elegantlion]

There is hope. You obviously haven't read a few of the post about high schoolers having to be told repeatedly to write name and date on papers and to use the correct side of the paper.

 

My son was a delayed reader and therefore a delayed writer. He's not an enthusiastic student, except when it suits him, yet he's one cool kid.

 

It is frustrating to know your child is developing skills slower than others. Ds has amazed me at his growth over the last few years, and it's not been incremental. I try to do some schooling over the summer, yet for the last two it's only been reading, a tiny bit of math, and his computer interests. Yet each year I see real growth at the beginning of the year.

 

All of the things you listed are simply skills. They needed reminding. It's not like a group setting where they see their peers doing those things and kind of catch on. I've tried to stay chilled about some of those type of things and simply remind him, or make a checklist to use, without sounding frustrated. Some days it's easier to do than others.

 

One of the harder things I've had to do was learn to teach MY child where he was and not compare. It can be hard.

 

I would make a checklist and hang it where he can see it when he does his writing. Or give him a fresh list to check off each time. There really is a lot that goes in the process of writing, learning how to format a page is one part of that.

[Snickerdoodle]

He's 10.

 

Sounds normal to me.

[MomatHWTK]

I guess it depends on how you define hopeless. Don't worry about little things like where a letter starts and adjust your own ideas of how long something should take to teach. It takes as long as it takes. ;)

[IsabelC]

Firstly, he's normal. Maybe toward the slower end of normal, but definitely normal nonetheless. You're right that you need to avoid having a skewed idea of what's average.

 

Secondly, if it's too much for you to work on explicitly teaching everything over and over, you might need to adjust expectations a little. Choose a list of things to really work at. Then consider, are there some things that you could either postpone until after others are mastered, or let go altogether? (For example, my idea of penmanship is to give it a good try in the early years, but not keep hammering at it indefinitely. It's not life threatening to write a letter T the wrong way. My husband writes messily and never learned to form his letters properly, but is happy and successful in his business as an IT networking consultant.)

[Candid]

I would like to know how he is doing with more interesting things to learn than those you list. Everything you list is very fine motor dominated and, as the mom of two boys, it also appears to be things girls like to do. Neither of my boys would have been interested in any of those things. And one thing I've learned is no interest = slower learning.

 

How is he with math? Learning to read? Science knowledge? Does he have hobbies and interests? What are they?

[ladykayaker]

I feel your concerns are valid, and yet at the same time I think you are doing the best for him. Some kids definitely need extra time and effort from mom - which is one of the wonderful things about homeschooling - In a school setting he probably wouldn't get the extra attention as he is normal 'enough'. I don't think it is just a boy thing (I have two boys and three girls) . If it was just a boy thing then his gross motor skills would have developed sooner. These kids at the end of normal range are often overlooked in a classroom setting. They do take extra effort and a lot of patience from mom.

 

My kid brother was at outer edge of normal. Some gross motor and fine motor delays. His kindergarten teacher commented that he couldn't use a pair of scissors. He was a great kid, loved by all, wonderful sense of humour, outgoing, life and soul of the party kind of guy. He couldn't memorise the boy scout promise. In the end the scout master let him in because he was "so much fun to have around".

 

He could read, though preferred to read comics and cartoons, had great difficulty with school tests that required memorizing facts. His math was so-so.

He was in the school choir, sometimes singing solo with his beautiful voice, didn't manage well with reading music, so piano and other instruments were out, but he did learn a little guitar.

He did great at some sports, eventually getting his black belt in taekwondo. Though nothing where he had to connect a bat/racquet to a moving ball - didn't have the coordination for that.

 

He made it through school - just - though he repeated 10th grade.

After school he floated for a year or two not sure what to do. In the end he signed himself up for a six month certificate course to learn a computer programming language. In those days it was called Natural ( a programming language that is very structured and used mainly by large financial insitutions. )

After a few years of programming experience, he immigrated to the US, and got a job in New York programming. The company loved his outgoing personality. With his knowledge of the programming side as well as his fun personality they would put him front and center at their sales presentations. Not many programmers are fun and extrovert!

 

At the end of all this, my advice would be to help him learn the basics in all the academics, giving him as much attention and time as you can - given that you also have other children.

And help him to find a hobby or two that will give him pleasure, a sense of pride in that there is something he can do well.

Edited September 3, 2012 by ladykayaker

[EKS]

You might want to post this on the special needs board.

 

It sounds like your son could benefit from some occupational therapy. Much of what you're worried about falls into the realm of motor planning and OTs are able to help with that.

[Ummto4]

I feel your concerns are valid, and yet at the same time I think you are doing the best for him. Some kids definitely need extra time and effort from mom - which is one of the wonderful things about homeschooling - In a school setting he probably wouldn't get the extra attention as he is normal 'enough'. I don't think it is just a boy thing (I have two boys and three girls) . If it was just a boy thing then his gross motor skills would have developed sooner. These kids at the end of normal range are often overlooked in a classroom setting. They do take extra effort and a lot of patience from mom.

 

Yes, my guy is that kind of kids. Eventually he can do it though, e.g. using ruler. It took me 1.5 years to teach him how to use ruler to make a line, how to measure, and how to divide a page into columns. His sisters who were 6 and 4 only need to be shown once or twice - most skills they pick up naturally. When I taught him to use ruler at 8, he did worse than his almost 4yo sister (my #3). But at 10.5 (fifth grade), he can do it.

 

My kid brother was at outer edge of normal. Some gross motor and fine motor delays. His kindergarten teacher commented that he couldn't use a pair of scissors. He was a great kid, loved by all, wonderful sense of humour, outgoing, life and soul of the party kind of guy. He couldn't memorise the boy scout promise. In the end the scout master let him in because he was "so much fun to have around".

 

Yes, he's bad at memorization. He couldn't use scissors until around 7, and even then it was a mess. He can use scissors now ...:)

 

He could read, though preferred to read comics and cartoons, had great difficulty with school tests that required memorizing facts. His math was so-so.

 

He loves Horrible Histories and Wimpy Kid kind of books because they're comics. Only recently he's willing to read How to Train a Dragon and Boxcar Children series.

 

He was in the school choir, sometimes singing solo with his beautiful voice, didn't manage well with reading music, so piano and other instruments were out, but he did learn a little guitar.

He did great at some sports, eventually getting his black belt in taekwondo. Though nothing where he had to connect a bat/racquet to a moving ball - didn't have the coordination for that.

 

This is him ...:). He's okay with karate (not great) but can't catch a moving ball.

 

He made it through school - just - though he repeated 10th grade.

After school he floated for a year or two not sure what to do. In the end he signed himself up for a six month certificate course to learn a computer programming language. In those days it was called Natural ( a programming language that is very structured and used mainly by large financial insitutions. )

After a few years of programming experience, he immigrated to the US, and got a job in New York programming. The company loved his outgoing personality. With his knowledge of the programming side as well as his fun personality they would put him front and center at their sales presentations. Not many programmers are fun and extrovert!

 

At the end of all this, my advice would be to help him learn the basics in all the academics, giving him as much attention and time as you can - given that you also have other children.

And help him to find a hobby or two that will give him pleasure, a sense of pride in that there is something he can do well.

 

Yes, I think he's normal, but a bit slower. As long as I teach him diligently, he will understand and be able to do things. But everything has to be explicit and reviewed continuously. I hope that I kind give him everything he needs for college and beyond. I'm still afraid though, that because he's not "bright" that he will have difficulties in the workplace. He's v. outgoing , funny, and imaginative though, so he should think carefully on how to capitalize on his strength. His aunt is not strong academically, but she's a good sales rep and gets good money. His grand uncles - all 3 of them- despised school, but all of them are successful entrepreneurs.

[Ummto4]

You might want to post this on the special needs board.

 

It sounds like your son could benefit from some occupational therapy. Much of what you're worried about falls into the realm of motor planning and OTs are able to help with that.

 

Kai, he's able to do all those things now ... but it takes a while to teach him.

[Ummto4]

I would like to know how he is doing with more interesting things to learn than those you list. Everything you list is very fine motor dominated and, as the mom of two boys, it also appears to be things girls like to do. Neither of my boys would have been interested in any of those things. And one thing I've learned is no interest = slower learning.

 

How is he with math? Learning to read? Science knowledge? Does he have hobbies and interests? What are they?

 

He learned to read when he's 6 and he's fine in that department. Not early, but still within the range, I think. He's strong and solid in math; we use Horizons 5 and MM 5 for 5th grade. Science and histories - he reads and watches science programs. So he's fine with that.

 

His main weaknesses are: memorization, skills, and it takes a long time for him to understand something. Certainly not sharp. His strength: his personality and his imagination.

[Ummto4]

There is hope. You obviously haven't read a few of the post about high schoolers having to be told repeatedly to write name and date on papers and to use the correct side of the paper.

 

My son was a delayed reader and therefore a delayed writer. He's not an enthusiastic student, except when it suits him, yet he's one cool kid.

 

It is frustrating to know your child is developing skills slower than others. Ds has amazed me at his growth over the last few years, and it's not been incremental. I try to do some schooling over the summer, yet for the last two it's only been reading, a tiny bit of math, and his computer interests. Yet each year I see real growth at the beginning of the year.

 

All of the things you listed are simply skills. They needed reminding. It's not like a group setting where they see their peers doing those things and kind of catch on. I've tried to stay chilled about some of those type of things and simply remind him, or make a checklist to use, without sounding frustrated. Some days it's easier to do than others.

 

One of the harder things I've had to do was learn to teach MY child where he was and not compare. It can be hard.

 

I would make a checklist and hang it where he can see it when he does his writing. Or give him a fresh list to check off each time. There really is a lot that goes in the process of writing, learning how to format a page is one part of that.

 

It's nice to know that he can get better with time ...:). Yes, it's hard not to compare when you're surrounded by above-average kids and early learners.

[Ummto4]

I guess it depends on how you define hopeless. Don't worry about little things like where a letter starts and adjust your own ideas of how long something should take to teach. It takes as long as it takes. ;)

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Ummto4]

Firstly, he's normal. Maybe toward the slower end of normal, but definitely normal nonetheless. You're right that you need to avoid having a skewed idea of what's average.

 

Secondly, if it's too much for you to work on explicitly teaching everything over and over, you might need to adjust expectations a little. Choose a list of things to really work at. Then consider, are there some things that you could either postpone until after others are mastered, or let go altogether? (For example, my idea of penmanship is to give it a good try in the early years, but not keep hammering at it indefinitely. It's not life threatening to write a letter T the wrong way. My husband writes messily and never learned to form his letters properly, but is happy and successful in his business as an IT networking consultant.)

 

Yes, I have to learn to let go things. Like cursive - I taught him for almost 3 years, and still he hasn't caught on. He can do cursive if he concentrates, but now it's not worth it. I just let him print.

[Candid]

He learned to read when he's 6 and he's fine in that department. Not early, but still within the range, I think. He's strong and solid in math; we use Horizons 5 and MM 5 for 5th grade. Science and histories - he reads and watches science programs. So he's fine with that.

 

His main weaknesses are: memorization, skills, and it takes a long time for him to understand something. Certainly not sharp. His strength: his personality and his imagination.

 

Actually I had a friend who was a reading specialist and told me that boys learn to read on average at 7 1/2. Now, obviously a lot depends on the system, too, but I'd say yours was ahead.

 

I should note, my oldest never could quite use the scissors, and I wouldn't expect much from him now on that front. On the other hand thanks to standardized testing in my state I know he is pretty high in academics and he is certainly hitting tough subjects now in the tenth grade with no problems. We did OT for about nine months around age 5 and I didn't find it a ton of use.

 

My youngest still over motors when he uses scissors (his mouth cuts too), he's 13. He also does fine in academics.

 

I'd be very cautious about labeling a child based on fine motor activities and memorization especially if that child was a boy who didn't really care to be doing either.

[EKS]

Kai, he's able to do all those things now ... but it takes a while to teach him.

 

But I'm willing to bet that there are other things that involve motor planning that are difficult for him even now.

[jhschool]

I wouldn't worry about the title, name, centering or anything like

that.

 

I also wouldn't worry about the ts and the is (starting from the bottom).

Mine writes his letters and numbers from all sorts of weird directions.

He's just independent like that.

 

So, yes, there is hope! And your

DC is still only 10.

Edited September 3, 2012 by jhschool

[MomatHWTK]

FWIW, my Ds has had some testing that has helped me to target his areas of need and make accomodations for his studies. I know it is hard to let go of the "ought to be doings." I actually still stumble on this as his doctor is saying to slow things down and wait but as the teacher I have trouble following that advice. Here- processing speed and short term memory are the big issues. But I agree there could also be fine motor skills at play.

 

Have you tried moving to a keyboard and formatting program? DS is using EasyTech through learning.com to learn to put information into a database. He learned to set up tables using MSWord. Don't let the physical (handwriting) issue slow down the learning.

 

But also know that some kids just aren't intuitive and it will take a step by step, checklist approach. Sometimes it is easier for me to let a computer program do the teaching for DS for this very reason. The programs are very methodical and step by step. I'm more of a a "just look at it and copy" type of gal. ;)

 

My intial post in answer to yours was the one I have to give myself- I have to teach the student I have not the one I imagined. :grouphug: