Singapore US edition, standards, or MEP? Still choosing...

[Guest Xapis10]

If you've read my previous posts on my math quests, I have settled on ordering Miquon for DS5. To accompany Miquon, I was leaning toward getting Singapore, but I'm slightly put off by the pro's and con's of the US edition vs. the Standards edition. (I'm also trying to understand how many updates there are to these editions, since I'm looking at used materials...?)

What are your votes as far as editions go, or is MEP better? My son is 5 1/2, and hasn't had tons of math exposure yet.

Trying to put on the supermom cape and get off the ground... the cape is heavy!

[jennynd]

Standard is what we used. I bought both US 1st and switch to Std. I like it much better.

My dd is using SM and miquon at the same time starting the 2a. I do find the scope is a bit hard to put 2 together but certainly doable.

[Guest Xapis10]

Standard is what we used. I bought both US 1st and switch to Std. I like it much better.

My dd is using SM and miquon at the same time starting the 2a. I do find the scope is a bit hard to put 2 together but certainly doable.

Do you find the HIG is needed for the first year or two? Can I ask what you like better with the Standard?

[ThePW]

Do you find the HIG is needed for the first year or two? Can I ask what you like better with the Standard?

 

We're using 2A standards, I have the HIG, textbook and workbook. I think the HIG guide is very helpful, I'm not sure I could work without it.

[Guest Xapis10]

Maybe I should throw another question into the mix: Am I a little odd to be starting any of these before age 6/1st grade? If I would hold off on the "first grade" math material like Singapore (still playing with Miquon), I would still definitely want *something* more to do math-wise, to keep DS5 occupied.

[FO4UR]

I use the US Edition. I think the general consensus around here is that the Standards Edition has the better HIG. If you want/need the best HIG, get the Standards.

 

 

I go the cheaper route, especially since I double up with Miquon anyway. I don't use an HIG at all in 1st/2nd grade.

 

It's up to you and what you think your ds is ready for, as far as what to start when. You can take him quite far with just the rods until he's ready for writing and worksheets. If you want to keep him occupied beyond Miquon lessons but before Singapore, go for the Triumvirate of Elementary Math (:lol:) and splurge on the RightStart games.

 

 

Don't squelch his love of math by starting workbooks too soon, but if he's workbook loving child don't stress about starting "too early." You can tell easily...if he brings you the workbooks and asks if we can do this now, he's ready. If he runs and hides when he sees you bring out the workbook, he's not ready. It's really that scientific in my house.

[LittleIzumi]

I love MEP and Miquon. :D Both of my kids will be using MEP this year.

[LMD]

all three? :D yes I have a problem with too many math programs...

 

But seriously, Miquon starts at a 1st grade level - not K - so if you're already going with Miquon orange then Singapore 1A will not be too difficult. This is exactly what I just realised with my DS.

 

If you want to flesh out K then I'd do MEP reception before beginning either Miquon or Singapore. MEP Reception is a really lovely (and free!) way to do K maths.

 

As for standards vs 3rd edition, I've used both and I slightly prefer 3rd - but that is uncommon, most people prefer standards from what I can gather. I have barely looked at the standards HIG for 1A (got it 2nd hand), but I found the 3rd edition HIG for level 2 quite useful. Also, I think the 3rd/US editions have 2 workbooks for each textbook - so 4 workbooks per level - whereas the standards only have 1 workbook per textbook.

[boscopup]

I have only used Standards Edition. I like the HIG and use it even in 1st grade math (I know first grade math is easy, but I need to know how to TEACH it, and the HIG tells that, plus sometimes the HIG has you teaching something that isn't obvious in the textbook itself). Note that the Standard Edition Textbook is full color all the way through grade 6, whereas I believe the US Edition is black and white after grade 3. The downside to Standards is that there is no HIG for grade 6, though I don't know if one is planned at some point? Anyone know? :lurk5:

 

I'm using 1A with my 5.5 year old K'er right now, and it's a perfect fit for him. He did Singapore Essential Math K last year. The work is pretty easy right now, so he loves doing it. I add in C-rods as needed and make them available at all times (ie, if he is struggling to remember a fact, I say, "You can use the rods if you need to," and he will figure it out with the rods). While it is a workbook, there isn't that much writing. And if it does get too much, you can scribe or switch off who does the writing. I used to do that with writing-phobic DS1 (though he's not had any trouble doing all the work in Singapore himself... it was Math Mammoth that he needed me to assign less problems and/or trade off writing).

[jennynd]

I have only used Standards Edition. I like the HIG and use it even in 1st grade math (I know first grade math is easy, but I need to know how to TEACH it, and the HIG tells that, plus sometimes the HIG has you teaching something that isn't obvious in the textbook itself). .

 

I bought HIG 2A for my DD because Boscopup convinced me that there is something in there valuable. And she is right.:D HIG has a lot games and activities in there that make the math fun.

Standard has a lot build in practice and reviews and covers more material when u goes higher grade. My DS went all the way through 6B and and it covers "most" of the preA materials.

[jennynd]

though I don't know if one is planned at some point? Anyone know? :lurk5:

 

I used teachers manual for 6A/6B standard. I got from amazon for 14$ each. I got lucky

[boscopup]

I used teachers manual for 6A/6B standard. I got from amazon for 14$ each. I got lucky

 

Good find! :D

[blondeviolin]

If you're wanting to hold off first grade materials, there's always MEP. TBH, MEP 1 is designed for 5yos. While you could begin MEP with R and then move into MEP 1, the fact remains that MEP 1 doesn't get into addition over ten until the year is half over.

 

BUT, if you need more handholding and being taught HOW to teach about math (ie we add 8 + 7 by completing a ten), then definitely go with Singapore Standards. Their HIG is very, very thorough. It's also VERY open-and-go.

[Guest Xapis10]

What about the Kinder bks for your little guy?

 

(I know first grade math is easy, but I need to know how to TEACH it, and the HIG tells that, plus sometimes the HIG has you teaching something that isn't obvious in the textbook itself).

 

I'm using 1A with my 5.5 year old K'er right now, and it's a perfect fit for him. He did Singapore Essential Math K last year. The work is pretty easy right now, so he loves doing it. I add in C-rods as needed and make them available at all times

 

Helpful comments boscopup! I do think I could use the knowledge of HOW to teach even the easier stuff. How much do you think it helped to do Singapore Essential K first? Is there any struggle in knowing how to teach even K?

Are the teacher "helps" on the MEP site not very helpful in knowing how to teach it?

Would anyone recommend starting with MEP (some R, maybe some 1) while first introducing/playing with c-rods, and then starting Miquon and PM 1a? Would that be helpful, or a bit confusing and unnecessary?

[Guest Xapis10]

Sorry, maybe another re-phrasing of my thoughts/question. I'm feeling good about using PM 1A at some point. Just wondering how good/necessary of a precursor that PM K would be.

If a precursor is needed, would there be a sizeable advantage with PM K over MEP for a K intro? PM K doesn't have much help to the teacher does it? And MEP has at least some notes to the teacher. But is there a large difference in how MEP's approach will mesh to PM1A compared to sticking with PM from the beginning?

[Crimson Wife]

Sorry, maybe another re-phrasing of my thoughts/question. I'm feeling good about using PM 1A at some point. Just wondering how good/necessary of a precursor that PM K would be.

If a precursor is needed, would there be a sizeable advantage with PM K over MEP for a K intro? PM K doesn't have much help to the teacher does it? And MEP has at least some notes to the teacher. But is there a large difference in how MEP's approach will mesh to PM1A compared to sticking with PM from the beginning?

 

My DS did MEP Reception and most of 1A before switching to Singapore 1A. SM 1A was the original entry point and the K books were added to the program later (similar to how Right Start originally started with B and A was added later). So it does not assume any previous formal math.

 

MEP has a lot of excellent "puzzle" problems but I felt like I couldn't judge whether my student was actually making any progress. With Right Start or Singapore, it's very easy for me to tell that my student is progressing. MEP felt like it was a lot of very interesting math work but I had this nagging voice of doubt about it that I just couldn't silence. YMMV :001_smile:

[blondeviolin]

If you're going to go with SM 1A with a young child, Miquon is the perfect segue. I started Emmett with rod familiarization, then he needed to be able to build me a staircase with the rods. Then, we moved into making rod trains. Then we added the mathematical sentence. From there, I introduced him to number bonds and the relationship between addition and subtraction. I told him when we wanted to find a missing piece, we subtracted. He now completely understands that addition is putting together and subtraction is taking apart.

 

If you use Miquon in straight order through the first bits of the Orange Book, then there is a really good foundation and jump into Singapore. Then, Miquon could move into your "fun math" spot while Singapore is your spine. SEVERAL people do this.

[LMD]

Helpful comments boscopup! I do think I could use the knowledge of HOW to teach even the easier stuff. How much do you think it helped to do Singapore Essential K first? Is there any struggle in knowing how to teach even K?

Are the teacher "helps" on the MEP site not very helpful in knowing how to teach it?

Would anyone recommend starting with MEP (some R, maybe some 1) while first introducing/playing with c-rods, and then starting Miquon and PM 1a? Would that be helpful, or a bit confusing and unnecessary?

 

That is exactly what I have done (the underlined), started with MEP R & c-rods play, then went to Miquon & PM1a. It's been fine so far. I have found the lesson plans for MEP to be sufficient.

 

We now basically introduce a topic with Miquon, then jump back and forth between it and singapore until we're done.

[boscopup]

Just wondering how good/necessary of a precursor that PM K would be.

 

I think that depends on your child. My oldest could have done without a "K" math program, as he figured out all of K math on his own. If I had been homeschooling him at age 5, he would have needed a 1st grade program and would have zipped through it very quickly. My middle son DID need a K math program, but now he's taking off and starting to zip a bit (though we're still doing one lesson a day in PM 1A - I don't want him accelerated too much yet... he's not ready for really HARD work in math, plus he's having to work hard in reading, so that's enough hard work for a 5 year old).

 

My youngest would be fine starting PM 1A in K, I'm sure. He's a lot like DS1. But since he insists on school and particularly "maff", he is doing MEP Reception right now. I intend to do Essential Math K next year when he's 4.

 

All of my kids are mathy, so as usual, YMMV. The bigger issues in PM1A that could cause problems for a 5 year old that isn't developmentally ready would be missing addend problems and adding across 10 (8+4 = 10+2 = 12). Some 5 year olds are ready for those topics, and some aren't. DS2 has no problem with missing addend because of our C-rod use. Missing addend is in the K program also, but you can use manipulatives to do it. Adding across 10 is a much harder concept. We haven't gotten there yet, but we did watch a mental math video on educationunboxed.com, and he was starting to figure it out. So I think we'll be ok there. Even DS1 needed manipulatives for that concept at age 6 when we tackled it, and he never needs manipulatives (he's an abstract thinker).

 

PM K doesn't have much help to the teacher does it?

There are notes at the bottom of each page in EM K, where it tells you what to do and some extra activities to explain. It does not have a TM because it really doesn't need one. I added in C-rods in book B, and you'd have to know how to use those, but it's just basic addition and subtraction, along with missing addend. Those are easy with C-rods. For adding, lay the rods end-to-end and find the rod that is the same length as those 2 rods put together. For missing addend and subtraction, I lay the rods side-by-side and find the rod that fits in the "hole". This was perfect for my VSL DS2.

 

This list is helpful to determine if your child is ready to move on to 1st grade math, or if he needs some more instruction first:

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/kindergarten.php

 

If he's just missing some of those things, you can always teach them yourself without a curriculum. That list gives you some ideas of how to do that. Most K concepts are easily taught in the context of daily life - counting, colors, shapes, etc. I only used workbooks because DS2 needs a pictorial example and doesn't learn as well from JUST daily life, and DS3 loves workbooks and thinks he's doing school if he has one. :D

[Aoife]

I used SM primary with my older girls before std came out then switched to std with them. I liked std much much better the HIG just made so much more sense to me. With soon to be 4 kids I need EASY :lol:

 

that said I did end up switching my younger kids to MIF for kindy and 1A-1B then we will probably go back to std (my books for the girls started at 2A anyway :tongue_smilie: ) I like the gentle and cohesive approach of MIF for the younger years but the cost is well EEK especially if you go full with the TMs. SM is definitely way more cost effective. I just didn't care much for the std. edition K books and my kids LOVE the MIF k books!

Edited August 9, 2012 by Aoife

[Guest Xapis10]

 

This list is helpful to determine if your child is ready to move on to 1st grade math, or if he needs some more instruction first:

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/kindergarten.php

 

 

 

Thanks for this link and all your help!

So many helpful comments - I'm indebted!!

[fractalgal]

My PreK son is doing a combination of the above three. I just wrote a Review of MEP which you are welcome to view. I don't know that there is a perfect combination, but we are moving forward and playing with math as we go.

 

He has finished Singapore Essentials K and is now working on MEP Reception and Miquon Orange. Good luck. :)

[Guest Xapis10]

My PreK son is doing a combination of the above three. I just wrote a Review of MEP which you are welcome to view. I don't know that there is a perfect combination, but we are moving forward and playing with math as we go.

 

He has finished Singapore Essentials K and is now working on MEP Reception and Miquon Orange. Good luck. :)

Thanks!

[stripe]

I <3 MEP.

 

The progression of skill building always makes me admire the depth and clarity of thought that went into it. It has really ugly graphics (esp in Reception), but overlook them.