Mormons are doing something right; what is it?

[Galatea]

Oh wait, I stand corrected. He was a prophet. That'll teach me to click down rather than scroll down on a Wikipedia article.

 

That correction made, ETB as a prophet still does not overrule scripture.

 

I don't think "overrule" is the word, but the words of the prophet are scripture alongside the 4 books. From the LDS website: "In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, the Liahona or Ensign magazine, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God†(Articles of Faith 1:9)."

[LittleIzumi]

I don't think "overrule" is the word, but the words of the prophet are scripture alongside the 4 books. From the LDS website: "In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, the Liahona or Ensign magazine, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God†(Articles of Faith 1:9)."

 

Yup--but only when they are speaking to the entire church in the capacity of a prophet, like in General Conference. Not when writing personal memoirs, or when they gave talks before becoming a prophet, or in interviews, etc.

[DianeW88]

Well, I've never taken an antidepressant in my life, and I do live in Utah. :lol: And of my friends with whom I would be close enough to know that sort of information...none of them do either. Purely anecdotal of course, but I don't want any audience members to be thinking that Utah is full of women who secretly hate their lives, spend all their day bemoaning the fact that they aren't "perfect" (whatever that is), constantly feel the need to put on a dog and pony show about their lifestyle (for whom?), and are crumbling under some sort of unrealistic burden of pressure.

 

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I love Utah! I love living here. I live in a wonderful neighborhood with generous and kind people who are sincere in their friendship and their faith. I love my church and its teachings. I am a truly happy person. I'm so grateful for my blessings and for my family. I do not feel any need to be a perfect person. If I'm do certain things in my life, it is because I WANT to do them and because I enjoy them.

 

Seriously, Mormon women are not crumbling to pieces and crying in their closets every night about how hard it is to keep up and be perfect. We're just normal. Just like women in any other faith...or not of any faith...who are striving to be the best they can everyday for their family and friends and live a decent life. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Galatea]

Yup--but only when they are speaking to the entire church in the capacity of a prophet, like in General Conference. Not when writing personal memoirs, or when they gave talks before becoming a prophet, or in interviews, etc.

 

Well yeah, I think that even a prophet can have a favorite baseball team without it being God's direction. :) I was specifically responding to the assertion that Ezra Taft Benson's "talks" were not scripture.

[LittleIzumi]

Well yeah, I think that even a prophet can have a favorite baseball team without it being God's direction. :) I was specifically responding to the assertion that Ezra Taft Benson's "talks" were not scripture.

 

There was mentioned that some of his talks were given before he was the prophet, so no, those would not be scripture. That's what I was addressing. When he becomes the prophet all of his previous talks or speeches don't become suddenly canonized into scripture. He could not speak as a prophet before he was one. That's all. :)

Edited August 2, 2012 by LittleIzumi

[Elizabeth in MN]

I don't think "overrule" is the word, but the words of the prophet are scripture alongside the 4 books. From the LDS website: "In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, the Liahona or Ensign magazine, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God†(Articles of Faith 1:9)."

 

Respectfully, as other people have pointed out ETB was not a prophet at the time he made his statements that were posted in this thread. Hence they are not scripture or scripture-like.

[MamaSheep]

Well, I've never taken an antidepressant in my life, and I do live in Utah. :lol: And of my friends with whom I would be close enough to know that sort of information...none of them do either. Purely anecdotal of course, but I don't want any audience members to be thinking that Utah is full of women who secretly hate their lives, spend all their day bemoaning the fact that they aren't "perfect" (whatever that is), constantly feel the need to put on a dog and pony show about their lifestyle (for whom?), and are crumbling under some sort of unrealistic burden of pressure.

 

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I love Utah! I love living here. I live in a wonderful neighborhood with generous and kind people who are sincere in their friendship and their faith. I love my church and its teachings. I am a truly happy person. I'm so grateful for my blessings and for my family. I do not feel any need to be a perfect person. If I'm do certain things in my life, it is because I WANT to do them and because I enjoy them.

 

Seriously, Mormon women are not crumbling to pieces and crying in their closets every night about how hard it is to keep up and be perfect. We're just normal. Just like women in any other faith...or not of any faith...who are striving to be the best they can everyday for their family and friends and live a decent life. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Hear, hear!

 

I actually have taken antidepressants from time to time over the course of my life. The medical and mental health professionals with whom I've consulted tell me that the depression I experience is due to a chemical imbalance, almost certainly related to another medical condition I have (the same one that affects my fertility, but I've never heard anyone accuse Mormonism of reducing fertility rates...lol). I've also been told that my LDS lifestyle very likely helps prevent the depression from being worse, and more frequent. Many of the recommendations I've gotten from the professionals about managing depression correlate very nicely with LDS teachings and practices. For example, I've been told by several doctors in various places I've lived that avoiding alcohol, smoking, and excessive caffeine intake, while eating a diet that leans in the direction of whole grains, fruits, vegetables, and lean meats will help with depression--which lines up nicely with D&C 89. The advice I've been given to get plenty of sleep, set and work toward reasonable, worthwhile goals (even on days when I "don't feel like it"), and keep my surroundings reasonably clean (not spotless and perfect) has reminded me every time of D&C 88:124 (seminary scripture mastery, anyone?). I've also been told what a healthy thing it is for me to have a support system of people I can socialize with and who I can call on when I need help, or just to talk. My entire adult life I've lived a long way from family and old friends, and it has been incredibly helpful and comforting to have a church family wherever I go that I know I can call on when I need them. Both the teachings of the church and the support system I find there have been very positive influences in my life, both in and out of Utah. While in Utah I've lived in two different neighborhoods, and have found kind, sincere, "real" people in both. I love our current neighborhood. I didn't want to move here because of some preconceptions I have, but now I kinda don't really want to leave.

 

It's been a rough year around here, with two deaths in the family, a miscarriage, some financial set-backs, and my husband out of state for 5 of the past 12 months (among other things), and I have sought some professional support in making sure the depression didn't get out of hand during some of that time. I am having a little bit of an attitude problem with the level of my son's disability just at the moment (which happens from time to time, and is what we call "normal" when one has a child with a disability; it'll pass). But all in all I LOVE my life. I love my family, immediate and extended. I love my church and it's teachings, and I love the amazing friends I've made there. I'm not perfect, and I don't feel obligated to pretend that I am or pressured to be "perfect"--quite the contrary. (Are there some people at church who are not supportive or accepting of me as I am? Sure. They've been the minority, and I figure they have their own issues, and I don't worry about it.) I love the current of underlying peace that I feel running through my life even during the hard times, and I know a lot of that comes from both my very LDS-based outlook on life and the support I receive through the church. Even on the days when I AM dealing with depression, or when I AM hiding in my room crying (I did that several times after the miscarriage this winter, but it wasn't about how hard it is to keep up or look perfect) I'm still not secretly falling apart, or hating my life, or crumbling under some kind of church-imposed pressure. Life is good. Even when it's hard, life is good.

Edited August 2, 2012 by MamaSheep

[DianeW88]

It's been a rough year around here, with two deaths in the family, a miscarriage, some financial set-backs, and my husband out of state for 5 of the past 12 months (among other things), and I have sought some professional support in making sure the depression didn't get out of hand during some of that time. I am having a little bit of an attitude problem with the level of my son's disability just at the moment (which happens from time to time, and is what we call "normal" when one has a child with a disability; it'll pass). But all in all I LOVE my life. I love my family, immediate and extended. I love my church and it's teachings, and I love the amazing friends I've made there. I'm not perfect, and I don't feel obligated to pretend that I am or pressured to be "perfect"--quite the contrary. (Are there some people at church who are not supportive or accepting of me as I am? Sure. They've been the minority, and I figure they have their own issues, and I don't worry about it.) I love the current of underlying peace that I feel running through my life even during the hard times, and I know a lot of that comes from both my very LDS-based outlook on life and the support I receive through the church. Even on the days when I AM dealing with depression, or when I AM hiding in my room crying (I did that several times after the miscarriage this winter) I'm still not secretly falling apart, or hating my life, or crumbling under some kind of church-imposed pressure. Life is good. Even when it's hard, life is good.

 

I totally understand the miscarriage thing. I had four in a row (last one was twins) after two completely healthy, normal pregnancies. Do you know that one of the best miscarriage specialists in the world is right here in Utah? He practices in Salt Lake, Ogden and at Orem Community and Utah Valley Regional. He's responsible for my last little munchkin being born (in a round about way, of course :D), and he is amazing! If you want his name and number, PM me and I'll pass it along.

[MamaSheep]

I totally understand the miscarriage thing. I had four in a row (last one was twins) after two completely healthy, normal pregnancies. Do you know that one of the best miscarriage specialists in the world is right here in Utah? He practices in Salt Lake, Ogden and at Orem Community and Utah Valley Regional. He's responsible for my last little munchkin being born (in a round about way, of course :D), and he is amazing! If you want his name and number, PM me and I'll pass it along.

 

Aw, thanks. :) I don't think I can "go there" right now, for various reasons, but I appreciate the offer. :)

[mommaduck]

Hear, hear!

 

I actually have taken antidepressants from time to time over the course of my life. The medical and mental health professionals with whom I've consulted tell me that the depression I experience is due to a chemical imbalance, almost certainly related to another medical condition I have (the same one that affects my fertility, but I've never heard anyone accuse Mormonism of reducing fertility rates...lol). I've also been told that my LDS lifestyle very likely helps prevent the depression from being worse, and more frequent. Many of the recommendations I've gotten from the professionals about managing depression correlate very nicely with LDS teachings and practices. For example, I've been told by several doctors in various places I've lived that avoiding alcohol, smoking, and excessive caffeine intake, while eating a diet that leans in the direction of whole grains, fruits, vegetables, and lean meats will help with depression--which lines up nicely with D&C 89. The advice I've been given to get plenty of sleep, set and work toward reasonable, worthwhile goals (even on days when I "don't feel like it"), and keep my surroundings reasonably clean (not spotless and perfect) has reminded me every time of D&C 88:124 (seminary scripture mastery, anyone?). I've also been told what a healthy thing it is for me to have a support system of people I can socialize with and who I can call on when I need help, or just to talk. My entire adult life I've lived a long way from family and old friends, and it has been incredibly helpful and comforting to have a church family wherever I go that I know I can call on when I need them. Both the teachings of the church and the support system I find there have been very positive influences in my life, both in and out of Utah. While in Utah I've lived in two different neighborhoods, and have found kind, sincere, "real" people in both. I love our current neighborhood. I didn't want to move here because of some preconceptions I have, but now I kinda don't really want to leave.

 

It's been a rough year around here, with two deaths in the family, a miscarriage, some financial set-backs, and my husband out of state for 5 of the past 12 months (among other things), and I have sought some professional support in making sure the depression didn't get out of hand during some of that time. I am having a little bit of an attitude problem with the level of my son's disability just at the moment (which happens from time to time, and is what we call "normal" when one has a child with a disability; it'll pass). But all in all I LOVE my life. I love my family, immediate and extended. I love my church and it's teachings, and I love the amazing friends I've made there. I'm not perfect, and I don't feel obligated to pretend that I am or pressured to be "perfect"--quite the contrary. (Are there some people at church who are not supportive or accepting of me as I am? Sure. They've been the minority, and I figure they have their own issues, and I don't worry about it.) I love the current of underlying peace that I feel running through my life even during the hard times, and I know a lot of that comes from both my very LDS-based outlook on life and the support I receive through the church. Even on the days when I AM dealing with depression, or when I AM hiding in my room crying (I did that several times after the miscarriage this winter, but it wasn't about how hard it is to keep up or look perfect) I'm still not secretly falling apart, or hating my life, or crumbling under some kind of church-imposed pressure. Life is good. Even when it's hard, life is good.

:grouphug: None of us have a problem with legitimate use of anti-depressants and counseling :001_smile: Some of us have been in communities where it was misused though. One person on here has apparently been in one LDS ward where there was an issue. I've been in another (non-LDS) community where it was an issue (my point was that it does happen. I got the impression that some were calling her a liar).

 

:grouphug: about your angel babies; I have three myself.

[DianeW88]

Aw, thanks. :) I don't think I can "go there" right now, for various reasons, but I appreciate the offer. :)

 

 

I completely understand what you mean. If you ever change your mind or want more info, just let me know. :grouphug:

[Sara in AZ]

Well, I've never taken an antidepressant in my life, and I do live in Utah. :lol: And of my friends with whom I would be close enough to know that sort of information...none of them do either. Purely anecdotal of course, but I don't want any audience members to be thinking that Utah is full of women who secretly hate their lives, spend all their day bemoaning the fact that they aren't "perfect" (whatever that is), constantly feel the need to put on a dog and pony show about their lifestyle (for whom?), and are crumbling under some sort of unrealistic burden of pressure.

 

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I love Utah! I love living here. I live in a wonderful neighborhood with generous and kind people who are sincere in their friendship and their faith. I love my church and its teachings. I am a truly happy person. I'm so grateful for my blessings and for my family. I do not feel any need to be a perfect person. If I'm do certain things in my life, it is because I WANT to do them and because I enjoy them.

 

Seriously, Mormon women are not crumbling to pieces and crying in their closets every night about how hard it is to keep up and be perfect. We're just normal. Just like women in any other faith...or not of any faith...who are striving to be the best they can everyday for their family and friends and live a decent life. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

Diane, if we ever do end up deciding to move back to Salt Lake, I'm going to need to find out where your neighborhood is because it sounds amazing. :001_smile:

[Galatea]

Respectfully, as other people have pointed out ETB was not a prophet at the time he made his statements that were posted in this thread. Hence they are not scripture or scripture-like.

 

I really do understand that. The reason I said anything was because your first post said 1st, that he was not a prophet, and 2nd, that his "talks" were not scripture. Neither of those things was correct. True, everything he said before he was a prophet is not scripture at all, but his talks while he was prophet are. I was just clarifying that for anyone who doesn't understand and might have been confused. Not trying to argue at all.

[DianeW88]

Diane, if we ever do end up deciding to move back to Salt Lake, I'm going to need to find out where your neighborhood is because it sounds amazing. :001_smile:

 

I sent you a PM. ;)

[Elizabeth in MN]

Aw, thanks. :) I don't think I can "go there" right now, for various reasons, but I appreciate the offer. :)

 

:grouphug:

[Esperella]

I never meant to insinuate every single mormon woman is depressed and hates their life. Everything I say must be coming across completely opposite as I'm intending it to, because I have no issues with anti depressants. I dont feel anyone needs to justify their reasons for needing/wanting meds.

 

I'm truly happy that you all have had such happiness here in Utah. That's really awesome. If you dont know anyone else who has had the types of experiences that I have, or the others I've talked to have, then it's obvious we're running in completely different circles (though that's not surprising :001_smile:)

 

Since I'm "new" here, I dont really know how the board works, but I can see that these types of threads are more for happy talk, so I'm very sorry that I introduced negativity to your thread.

 

I never meant to hurt anyones feelings, or attack them, and I'm sorry it came across that way. Sorry Ladies! I'll butt out now.

[Maus]

Here in Utah, everyone wears designer clothes,

Apparently, not everyone agrees with that! Salt Lake City recently had the distinction of being voted second worst dressed city in the nation! :lol::lol::lol:

 

In my ward, unless fake Birks with socks have suddenly become designer church apparel, we haven't gotten the memo.:tongue_smilie:

[LittleIzumi]

I never meant to insinuate every single mormon woman is depressed and hates their life. Everything I say must be coming across completely opposite as I'm intending it to, because I have no issues with anti depressants. I dont feel anyone needs to justify their reasons for needing/wanting meds.

 

I'm truly happy that you all have had such happiness here in Utah. That's really awesome. If you dont know anyone else who has had the types of experiences that I have, or the others I've talked to have, then it's obvious we're running in completely different circles (though that's not surprising :001_smile:)

 

Since I'm "new" here, I dont really know how the board works, but I can see that these types of threads are more for happy talk, so I'm very sorry that I introduced negativity to your thread.

 

I never meant to hurt anyones feelings, or attack them, and I'm sorry it came across that way. Sorry Ladies! I'll butt out now.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: No worries! I think it was just the listing of antidepressants in the litany of sad things about Utah that turned it around. The rest of it I've seen at least a bit of, but not let really bother me. If other people want to make their hair all poufy and dress super-nice, spiffy for them. I'm not gonna and no one can make me. :lol: Sorry you had such a bad time here. I can honestly say I haven't seen any of that attitude, but maybe that's because I only really hang out with people I feel comfortable with, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with anyone with that attitude.

[MamaSheep]

:grouphug: None of us have a problem with legitimate use of anti-depressants and counseling :001_smile: Some of us have been in communities where it was misused though. One person on here has apparently been in one LDS ward where there was an issue. I've been in another (non-LDS) community where it was an issue (my point was that it does happen. I got the impression that some were calling her a liar).

 

:grouphug: about your angel babies; I have three myself.

 

Thank you. :grouphug:

 

As I've said, I fully recognize that LDS people come with our share of problems. I have a few myself. The statement I was originally responding to was this:

 

...

I've learned that though the image of the LDS is squeaky clean, in my experiences the good people are equal to the "bad". There are extremely high rates of pornography addictions, prescription drug addictions, bankruptcy, high debt to income ratios, one of the highest uses of anti depressants and of anorexia. Also for being so anti LBGT, I know a lot of closet gay men, who are married and have children, and boyfriends on the side. You'd be surprised. There is a reason SLC was the gay capital of the US. What is most heartbreaking to me is looking at the suicide rates or attempted suicide rates of LBGT college students here...

 

This is a very generalized statement about LDS people. I do acknowledge that some of these things happen within the LDS community, just as they do in any community in the U.S. these days.

 

My objection was to the inclusion of antidepressant use on the "bad" side of the scale that this poster felt equaled the "good" in the LDS community. Pornography addictions are damaging and degrading, prescription drug addictions are dangerous, the implication of including bankruptcy and high debt to income ratios (especially in context with the rest of that post) seems to be irresponsible spending habits, adultery of any kind is immoral, a betrayal, and a breaking of vows. Anorexia is a dangerous psychological and medical condition. None of those things are healthy or desirable in any way. I would probably evaluate the prevalence of all those things in the LDS community differently from Esperella, but she's entitled to her opinion on the subject, and I don't see any point in arguing it.

 

However, antidepressant use is a legitimate treatment for real medical problems. It can be life-changing for individuals and families--even literally life-saving. I think that lumping it in with pornography addictions, illicit affairs, and other irresponsible, unhealthy behavior is uncalled for. Doing so perpetuates a stigma against people with mental health issues, and may prevent someone from seeking needed medical help.

 

Several years ago a pharmaceutical company published the results of a study that listed Utah as having the highest antidepressant consumption in the nation, according to insurance claims filed. Critics of the LDS church have picked up on this and like to include it in their publications with insinuations that encourage people to jump to conclusions like this one:

 

That is not what is being said. When a large portion of a sub-culture is on anti-depressants, then there is a problem that needs to be looked at. I experienced the exact same thing in a particular Mennonite community. EVERY. WOMAN. was on anti-depressants. There was the same struggle to be the perfect (or "worthy") wife and mother. You had to do it all with a smile. You were judged on every little thing. Gossip was rampant. There was little to no privacy. I confronted the minister and his wife on the gossip issue. The response was, "you should consider going on anti-depressants to help you conform to the community." Yes, those EXACT words!

 

Not only do these kinds of insinuations in critical publications lead people outside the church to rush to judgment about us as a "sub-culture", they also create an atmosphere of shame for Mormon women who need antidepressants, which might discourage some people who legitimately need help from getting it. It irritates me when people assume that I need antidepressants because I'm Mormon and my church hurts me, when in reality it's a medical issue, and my church helps me tremendously. The people who publish and perpetuate such insinuations also seek to drive a wedge between depressed LDS women and the church community which, in my personal experience, not only does not CAUSE depression, but can be extraordinarily helpful in combating it.

 

If there IS a problem with unusually high rates of depression among Mormons, obviously it's something we should check into and do something about. But research indicates that Mormons in general, and Mormon women specifically, are actually LESS likely than the general population to be depressed. In fact, one study I read about concluded that not only did LDS people have lower rates of depression than the general population, but that the more devout and active in the faith a church member was, the less likely he or she was to be depressed, whereas for less participatory church members the depression rates were much closer to those in the general population.

 

That being the case, there must be some other explanation for the higher than usual antidepressant insurance claims in Utah. Several have been suggested. One thought is that because Mormons don't drink to feel better, depressed people in Utah are more likely to seek more appropriate treatment for their depression. Or, I've seen it suggested that the relatively high level of education in the state makes it more likely that people would know about symptoms and treatments for medical conditions, and would be more likely to go to a doctor when there's a problem--which might be supported by the fact that Utah ranked high, in the same study, in usage of several other kinds of medications. Another suggested reason is that Utah insurance coverage for mental health problems might be better, giving people greater access to needed medications than in many other states. Or that there's a possible genetic element related to the fact that so many Mormons in Utah are descended from a relatively small group of original settlers, who intermarried for several generations without a lot of external input into the gene pool and could have resulted in a population with a legitimately higher rate of genetic predisposition than would be "typically" accounted for in a more diverse population. I find that theory intriguing in light of the fact that Mormons in general are less likely to be depressed, but Utah specifically has a high rate of antidepressant consumption. (And the Scandinavian connection is very interesting to me along those lines as well, I think I'll have to look up more about that and see what kind of meat might be on those bones. I'm also interested in a possible connection with Utah's very high rate of autism, which tends to run in the same kinds of families with a genetic predisposition to depression and anxiety.) There's also the possibility of a higher rate of off-label prescription by doctors, such as for my son's OCD and GAD, with which the meds have been amazingly effective. I've even seen it suggested that Utah doctors are just better at diagnosing and treating depression than doctors in other states, though I would hate to think that was the case because I like to think we all have access to good medical practitioners.

 

At this point, we don't really know all the reasons for the higher than usual rate of antidepressant consumption in Utah, but almost none of the possible reasons equate to the kinds of destructive "bad" behaviors with which antidepressant use was categorized in that first post.

 

Had the statement been limited to a few specific people in one ward that had actually been observed misusing antidepressants, as you suggest, it wouldn't have bothered me. I have no trouble believing that could happen in some groups, especially as you tell me you've observed it. But this was a much more generalized statement than that, and incorporated some similar structure and sentiment that I've seen used in those critical publications that I find objectionable for the reasons I stated above. So yes, it kind of irked me. But I wasn't calling her a liar, just objecting to antidepressant use being listed as a "bad" counterbalance to the "good" in the LDS church in general, and in Utah County specifically.

 

As an interesting side-note, I saw a more recent study in which anti-depressant use was broken down by smaller geographical areas of Utah, and it makes me wonder what the heck it is about the salt flats west of the Great Salt Lake that makes people need so many anti-depressants. I've always thought of that as a fairly unpopulated area, though, so maybe it's just that when there are fewer people living in an area it doesn't take many individuals to raise the percentages. But who knows, maybe there's something in the lake salt, or some other unidentified environmental factor. It's an interesting puzzle. Also incidentally, there's a corridor down the Rockies in which there seem to be higher rates of things like depression and suicides, and nobody knows why. Some of the states in question have high populations of LDS, but others really don't. It's quite the mystery.

[gardenmom5]

Not only do these kinds of insinuations in critical publications lead people outside the church to rush to judgment about us as a "sub-culture", they also create an atmosphere of shame for Mormon women who need antidepressants, which might discourage some people who legitimately need help from getting it. It irritates me when people assume that I need antidepressants because I'm Mormon and my church hurts me, when in reality it's a medical issue, and my church helps me tremendously. The people who publish and perpetuate such insinuations also seek to drive a wedge between depressed LDS women and the church community which, in my personal experience, not only does not CAUSE depression, but can be extraordinarily helpful in combating it.

:iagree: I've a dear friend whose daughter repeatedly attempted suicide. she sought help from a psychiatrist, who for TWO. ####. YEARS kept telling her, her religion was her problem, she needed to leave it, stop talking to her parents (who are WONDERFUL people). etc. etc. etc.

 

frankly, the guy needed to have his license pulled and sued for malpractice.

 

this young woman, after one more suicide attempt, and attempt by the state to involuntarily commit her to a mental hospital, was examined by a different doctor. long story shot. she had a massive BRAIN TUMOR!!!!!!! but because there was such an animus towards mormons on the part of her dr, she wasn't even examined properly to look for another cause of her problem. (she had mentioned terrible headaches to her dr. - to which he very sarcastically responded "what, you think you have a brain tumor?") By the time she was PROPERLY diagnosed, the doctors gave her a 50% chance of dying in surgery, or 100% chance of being dead from the tumor within months. she made a full recovery with NO more problems.

 

eta: my friend's daughter never lived in utah (except possibly in college . . . )

Edited August 3, 2012 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

I don't like ETB. His talks are full of hate mongering, prejudice and unjustified judgement IMO. He also worked for Eisenhower, who many view as the worse president in US history.

 

In addition to my view I'd like to point out some facts - the Doctrine and Covenants are SCRIPTURE, but ETB talks are not. He was not a prophet of the church, so his words do not carry that extra weight.

gee, and I thought carter was the worst. (miracle is a great movie about the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team, and the little tidbits they bring in to help set the tone of what the world was like in 1980 brought back many memories of gas rationing lines, double digit mortgage rates, double digit prime interest rates, double digit inflation, misery index, stagflation, etc.)

Ezra Taft Benson was ordained as President of the LDS Church in 1985 - the talk I quoted was given in 1989. The President of the Church IS considered to be "the prophet."

 

 

The govt takes our money by force. That is what LAW is, force. I give my money voluntarily to the bishops storehouse, by my own free will. There is a huge difference.

:iagree:

Aren't a lot of LDS families (especially in Utah) of Scandinavian descent? There is a stereotype that Scandinavians are prone to depression so there may be something to the idea that many have a genetic predisposition towards developing the condition.

Having learned of some genetic mutations in this and related areas . . . . It has to do with being from an northern clime, less sun, less melanin, etc. it changes how the body absorbs vitamin D. and yes - vitamin D can affect moods/depression and related challenges. (I was surprised just how many things vitamin D affects.) My dd was taking 10,000IU -and was STILL considered catastrophically deficient (her dr's words) She's now on a liquid, time will tell if that's helping any better.

Edited August 3, 2012 by gardenmom5

[MamaSheep]

:iagree: I've a dear friend whose daughter repeatedly attempted suicide. she sought help from a psychiatrist, who for TWO. ####. YEARS kept telling her, her religion was her problem, she needed to leave it, stop talking to her parents (who are WONDERFUL people). etc. etc. etc.

 

frankly, the guy needed to have his license pulled and sued for malpractice.

 

this young woman, after one more suicide attempt, and attempt by the state to involuntarily commit her to a mental hospital, was examined by a different doctor. long story shot. she had a massive BRAIN TUMOR!!!!!!! but because there was such an animus towards mormons on the part of her dr, she wasn't even examined properly to look for another cause of her problem. (she had mentioned terrible headaches to her dr. - to which he very sarcastically responded "what, you think you have a brain tumor?") By the time she was PROPERLY diagnosed, the doctors gave her a 50% chance of dying in surgery, or 100% chance of being dead from the tumor within months. she made a full recovery with NO more problems.

 

eta: my friend's daughter never lived in utah (except possibly in college . . . )

 

That's dreadful!

[Aspasia]

Just to respond to the original post...

 

I was raised super duper active in the LDS church, served a mission, graduated from BYU, married in the temple...and I have been inactive for the past six years (except I actually started going back to church in the last few months.) I have always been proud of my association with the LDs church for the very reason that started this thread. Good Mormons (though there are bad ones, obviously) are fantastic people. Some Mormons will point to doctrinal things to explain that. With my current belief system, I actually have some doctrinal qualms, so I don't actually turn to that to explain the overall goodness of Mormons. After all, other churches do believe in service and kindness, etc.

 

What I think explains the goodness of Mormons are a few things: 1) Mormon work ethic is insane. These people are incredibly hard workers. It's almost in their cultural "DNA". This lends to their willingness and capacity to serve. We're raised to look around us for opportunities to work and serve other people. 2) the Mormon church REQUIRES a lot of its members. Like pp mentioned, that involves church service, lots of study, lots of contact with other members, etc. When you're actively contributing to something, you become more committed to it, and it becomes more a part of you. That's how they transmit their values. 3) There is simply a culture of sweetness, smileyness, friendliness, and warmth. I don't know where it started, but it pervades the church. You grow up surrounded by that and it becomes a part of you.

Edited August 3, 2012 by infomom

[MamaSheep]

gee, and I thought carter was the worst. (miracle is a great movie about the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team, and the little tidbits they bring in to help set the tone of what the world was like in 1980 brought back many memories of gas rationing lines, double digit mortgage rates, double digit prime interest rates, double digit inflation, misery index, stagflation, etc.)

Ezra Taft Benson was ordained as President of the LDS Church in 1985 - the talk I quoted was given in 1989. The President of the Church IS considered to be "the prophet."

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

Having learned of some genetic mutations in this and related areas . . . . It has to do with being from an northern clime, less sun, less melanin, etc. it changes how the body absorbs vitamin D. and yes - vitamin D can affect moods/depression and related challenges. (I was surprised just how many things vitamin D affects.) My dd was taking 10,000IU -and was STILL considered catastrophically deficient (her dr's words) She's now on a liquid, time will tell if that's helping any better.

 

That would explain why my Dr. recently started checking my vitamin D levels. I was deficient too and am now on a supplement. I can't tell you how many ways I feel better. I've even lost 10 lbs without any other changes. Kinda cool stuff. I wonder why nobody ever looked into that for me before. They always check my thyroid levels when I start dragging, and there's never been anything wrong with that (though it floats in the lower ranges of "normal" and I'll probably need meds for that eventually too).

[DianeW88]

I found this quote from Joseph Smith last night when I was doing some reading. I think it sums up what we've all been trying to say:

 

"We are to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tears of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all, wherever we find them."

 

This is who we are and what we believe at our core, taught by the very beginning of our church from our prophet.

[MamaSheep]

I found this quote from Joseph Smith last night when I was doing some reading. I think it sums up what we've all been trying to say:

 

"We are to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tears of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all, wherever we find them."

 

This is who we are and what we believe at our core, taught by the very beginning of our church from our prophet.

 

I've obviously been on Facebook too much lately. I keep looking for the "Like" button.

[Aspasia]

.

 

4. Meaningful activities for youth with goal setting. Our children are encouraged to look to the future and to make plans for a successful life. Education is stressed heavily in the LDS culture. We are always told to have a home full of good books and to read often to our children. Schooling is a high priority and we spend a great deal of time encouraging our children in matters of education. Our church even has a "Perpetual Education Fund", so that members may donate funds to help members in third world countries gain the education they need in order to have a more successful life.

 

 

Yes! Mormons are incredibly goal-oriented people and there is a heavy emphasis placed on continually working to improve yourself.

 

Another thing that I think helps is that we're raised with having a family as our #1 life goal. We're not encouraged to mess around or experiment or "find ourselves" as young adults. Instead, we're encouraged to get educated, get married, and start families. That's why it's very common for Mormons to marry quite young. While I don't think that's a great idea for everyone, i do think it contributes to the overall life focus that we have. My husband is 29 years old, has three kids, and works in a competitive position at the Treasury Dept in DC. I'm regularly re-impressed with him whenever I see what his age mates at work do with their free time. To me, they're very juvenile.

 

Back to the work ethic that I mentioned earlier, many of us grow up grinding wheat to bake bread, sewing, gardening, building things, etc. There is a lot of emphasis on self-sufficiency and preparedness, which contributes to a strong work ethic and a tendency (and ability) to help others when they need it.

[gardenmom5]

That would explain why my Dr. recently started checking my vitamin D levels. I was deficient too and am now on a supplement. I can't tell you how many ways I feel better. I've even lost 10 lbs without any other changes. Kinda cool stuff. I wonder why nobody ever looked into that for me before. They always check my thyroid levels when I start dragging, and there's never been anything wrong with that (though it floats in the lower ranges of "normal" and I'll probably need meds for that eventually too).

I think the vitamin D connection is something dr's are only now starting to become aware of, but I'm glad they are.

when they check thyroid - you want them to check the T3 and T4, not just the TSH. (that can be very deceptive. you can have a good amount of TSH, but you body isn't using it adequately. the other numbers will tell if you are or not.)

I've a friend who was diagnosed hypo, and she chose to do a triple dose of iodine first and is feeling much better.

[MamaSheep]

I think the vitamin D connection is something dr's are only now starting to become aware of, but I'm glad they are.

when they check thyroid - you want them to check the T3 and T4, not just the TSH. (that can be very deceptive. you can have a good amount of TSH, but you body isn't using it adequately. the other numbers will tell if you are or not.)

I've a friend who was diagnosed hypo, and she chose to do a triple dose of iodine first and is feeling much better.

 

Thanks, I'll have to ask about that.