sibling competition and studying the same history/science etc?

[St. Theophan Academy]

For some reason , this is such a big issue for me. I love the idea of WTM cycle where all children study the same period. Especially when they are older, I can see how great this would be to allow for discussion, interaction, group work etc. BUT. Last year I read what Ambleside says about having all the kids working on the same things (age appropriate of course) - and it really has stuck with me. They point out how hard it is for the younger one, since no matter how well they do, the older one will do better. I can see this with my oldest 2, they are only 2 years apart, so it would be so easy to do the same things with them for history, science, geography. But, I don't want the younger one always comparing her work to big brothers. Especially since they both love to draw and color and do projects, and of course it is obvious which pieces have been done by the younger one.

 

Does this worry anyone else, or am I just stressing over nothing. I know first hand the effects of sibling rivalry (I am the older, and have been reminded over and over how my sister never felt she could do anything as good as me). So, is it worth missing out on the great experience we could have working together or should I just not worry about it?

[SheilaZ]

That's why we have different programs for everyone here. The younger ones felt inferior when the oldest knew everything. The oldest felt "stupid" when the younger ones got it before he did.

Read aloud for history turned into a "how can a trump my brother-fest" so I just said forget it. And I won't even get into science with everyone at the same time. It was like brainy nerd smackdown.

 

Last year, everyone had their own books on grade level and we listen to SOTW as a supplelment in the van when we are traveling. Evevy one has been much happier since.

(Except me, I have to do more planning but I have to spend less time soothing egos.)

 

I envy the families that have everyone working together. If they will work together, I say go for it. Mine made competition out of coloring the STOW workbook pages. ("Mom, he's copying me." "Mom, he laughed at my page.")

 

Oddly enough, they get along just fine in every other respect but the competition with school was more than I could handle.

[G5052]

My older one tries to be a know-it-all, but thankfully my younger one is a happy, self-confident child so we've mostly been OK. I have to keep a rein on the older one, and be sure that I value the contributions of the younger one and emphasize that excellent work for her is indeed poor work for my older one.

 

Frankly though I'm separating them for 7th and up, which means only one more year of history and science together. It's just time for that. My older one needs higher expectations and more independent work with another adult calling some of the shots, so he'll be in the Classical Conversations Challenge program or doing a few individual courses through Hewitt or a local group. They're both upset about losing our read-aloud time, so I'll be continuing some of that but not as long or as structured.

 

In the end, you have to do what makes sense for your family, don't you?

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

That's why we have different programs for everyone here. The younger ones felt inferior when the oldest knew everything. The oldest felt "stupid" when the younger ones got it before he did.

Read aloud for history turned into a "how can a trump my brother-fest" so I just said forget it. And I won't even get into science with everyone at the same time. It was like brainy nerd smackdown.

 

Last year, everyone had their own books on grade level and we listen to SOTW as a supplelment in the van when we are traveling. Evervy one has been much happier since.

(Except me, I have to do more planning but I have to spend less time soothing egos.)

 

I envy the families that have everyone working together. If they will work together, I say go for it. Mine made competition out of coloring the STOW workbook pages. ("Mom, he's copying me." "Mom, he laughed at my page.")

 

Yep. BTDT way too much lately.

 

Oddly enough, they get along just fine in every other respect but the competition with school was more than I could handle.

 

So, I'm looking to do more history and science that they can do independently, in separate rooms if I can swing it.

 

I too envy those with kids that can work on something together without the competition.

 

K

[5Youngs]

We are CMers, and we do geography, history and science together.

 

As an oldest child, allow me to say that EVERYONE has "issues" that they struggle with, whether they are youngest, oldest or in between.

Too fat, too skinny, too fair, too dark, too tall, too short, too many rules, not enough money......

At some point we all just have to get over it and accept that life isn't perfect.

(I've had this discussion with my sisters several times) ;)

 

For homeschooling purposes, it is just plain easier.

Teaching them together, expecting more detail from the oldest has worked for us so far.

They don't really compete with each other, and I just don't bring it up.

My boys have different strengths, though.

We learn a continent, add countries, capitals and landmarks as I think that they are able.

We study a period in history, learn names, dates and details, as they are able.

Science, same thing.

This year I'm adding an almost 5 yr old to the mix.

 

For us, we just don't allow them to compete.

We encourage them and give them pats on the back for their hard work.

If one starts to put down his brother for not being good at something, then we quickly point out where the brother excels in something that he thinks is hard.

It's just keeping them from being rude and proud.

Working on their social skills, you might say. ;)

[5Youngs]

We also do our memory work together.

They are 9 and 11 yo.

 

Instead of competing, they drill each other and help each other.

It's awesome to watch them work together.

[M&M]

For some reason , this is such a big issue for me. I love the idea of WTM cycle where all children study the same period. Especially when they are older, I can see how great this would be to allow for discussion, interaction, group work etc. BUT. Last year I read what Ambleside says about having all the kids working on the same things (age appropriate of course) - and it really has stuck with me. They point out how hard it is for the younger one, since no matter how well they do, the older one will do better. I can see this with my oldest 2, they are only 2 years apart, so it would be so easy to do the same things with them for history, science, geography. But, I don't want the younger one always comparing her work to big brothers. Especially since they both love to draw and color and do projects, and of course it is obvious which pieces have been done by the younger one.

 

 

When we do discussions, I work with the younger ones first and then let the older ones fill in the details. We don't all do the same projects very often so we don't have a lot of problems there.

 

My first grader this fall may be the first to have this problem, since she has the tendency to compare. I think that I will continue to consider this a charater issue and not let if affect our schooling. She must learn that we all have different abilities and that you must do your best not be the best.

[Kate in Arabia]

History has worked out ok for us to do together; although really we only do the introductory reading and mapwork together, and if we're doing a craft/project. Then they have additional things to do on their own.

 

Science last year was a disaster for my younger. It didn't work to take the same program and try and make it more rigorous for one and more fun/introductory for the other, and I don't even know if the subject (physics) was engaging enough for my 1st grader. Maybe if I had changed my focus.

 

This year, and going forward, they will have separate science programs.

 

In neither case (history or science) was it really about competition. I didn't notice a whole lot of that coming from them, but I suppose with their age difference (3.5 years) it was getting more difficult to use the same program for both.

[WTMindy]

For some reason , this is such a big issue for me. I love the idea of WTM cycle where all children study the same period. Especially when they are older, I can see how great this would be to allow for discussion, interaction, group work etc. BUT. Last year I read what Ambleside says about having all the kids working on the same things (age appropriate of course) - and it really has stuck with me. They point out how hard it is for the younger one, since no matter how well they do, the older one will do better. I can see this with my oldest 2, they are only 2 years apart, so it would be so easy to do the same things with them for history, science, geography. But, I don't want the younger one always comparing her work to big brothers. Especially since they both love to draw and color and do projects, and of course it is obvious which pieces have been done by the younger one.

 

Does this worry anyone else, or am I just stressing over nothing. I know first hand the effects of sibling rivalry (I am the older, and have been reminded over and over how my sister never felt she could do anything as good as me). So, is it worth missing out on the great experience we could have working together or should I just not worry about it?

 

This has never been an issue for us, and we do almost everything together. They just don't seem to compare themselves to each other. What I find is that it really just fosters a love of learning things together, but that is how it plays out at our house.

[teacalm]

This was and still is a prolem with my girls. In my case, it's my younger girl who's fiercely competitive. She'll show off to her older sister that she can do things faster and better. My younger one learned to read first, write better in cursive, read faster, and can calculate in her head a lot faster. But eventually, my oldest girl finally caught up and that silenced her younger sister. Older dd finally surpassed the younger dd in math and I noticed that older dd can finish work a lot faster now. At the moment, they seem at peace with each other and often compare their answers. The younger dd doesn't seem to have a lot of opportunites to brag since older dd caught up with her and in a lot of ways, since she's older, tends to understand concepts faster.

 

I decided to separate their english (older dd Rod and Staff and younger dd with GWG), both are still doing Horizons/Singapore/ALeks but older dd is a book ahead, and I hold their literature discussion separately.

 

Both girls are very artistic and draws beautifully (not from side of the family since I can't even draw a stick figure right) and so they delight in comparing their work with each other. They also have their own favorite authors and I often hear them discussing what they read. I encourage them all the time to work together and always cheer for the other person's accomplishment. It helps also that my older dd is nurturing and takes pride in taking care of her younger siblings.

[abreakfromlife]

this has started to be a problem a little bit, and I'm hoping to nip it in the bud. I do try to tell them that we're all different, good at some things, not as good at some things, etc...... but for Math this next year, I'm going to use 2 different programs, so that they won't even know if they're at the same level or if the younger is passing the older. And for science, we're using Apologia Astronomy, and I printed off the worksheets from their site for my younger - it's mostly pages for him to draw pictures. And then on a notebooking yahoo group, someone has posted awesome notebooking pages for writing, in a newspaper format, that I printed off for my older - so they will be learning the same thing, but doing different notebooking exercises so that shouldn't be a problem this year,hopefully.

[Kathie in VA]

I've run into this a bit. I was questioning my 2 kids on history one day and they just couldn't remember the name of the person I was asking about (actually neither could I for the moment). Then the little guy (3 or 4 at the time) answered from the next room correctly! We didn't even know he had been listening! We all had a great laugh! It's a memorable moment for us in our homeschool.

 

I try to limit the competition by asking the younger ones questions like what, who and leave the why and how questions for the older ones. It might also help to assign different types of activities for the different kids. Maybe have one do coloring and another do sculpting, or they could do their work on different aspects like people, events, mapping, timeline, etc. Then their work can go together to make a more complete book?

[Peso]

my girls are 3 years apart, I don't combine them for anything except field trips. It really isn't that difficult, as long as what you're using isn't too overwhelming.

 

HTH -

 

Penny

[sweetbaby]

I homeschool five children and we do most subjects together but we have never had a problem with competition other than what I call healthy competition. We have oral drills, quizzes, etc and they try to make a game of it but it's never an issue. I think as some posters stated that learning together fosters team work and wonderful relationships. We encourage each other, pray for each other, and applaud others for their accomplishments.

[Rhondabee]

I don't know what Ambleside said, but what works here is to study the same topic separately. (My boys are 3 years apart in school)

 

For example, last year both the boys used SOTW-3 for "extra" reading. But, the older read it independently & took notes. The younger one read it with me, and then we created a "concept map" for his narration. The next day, we would discuss the information, and sometimes this did mean I had to specify which kid was to answer! But, then the older one wrote about a page report; the younger wrote a paragraph. It worked really well.

 

I've never been able to successfully combine for science - except when I didn't require any written work. But, that is my own personal ineptness at science coming through! I'm sure if I had routines along the lines of WTM, that it would be possible. I would just know that, again, I wouldn't *really* be combining the actual lessons - simply studying the same content.

 

This year we are doing literature together. I plan to listen to CD's, while we each read from our own copy. This will keep us all on the same book at the same time, and allow us to discuss as we go. It will be interesting to see how this pans out, since the writing assignments will basically be the same. I think now that my younger one is maturing, it will be easier. The hardest time for them (as brothers as well as classmates) was after my older son hit p*berty, and he suddenly wanted to be "grown up". My younger ds would really get on his nerves. Yet, my younger ds really missed having his brother for a "playmate".

[Haiku]

My kids compete with each other in school, but they compete in every other aspect of life, too, so I don't worry too much about it. I take my son aside and tell him, "Hey, you're in K and you're doing a lot of the same work as your sister, who's in 1st, so really, you're doing 1st grade work, so don't worry if you don't get it as fast as your sister. She's a year older." The only thing they do separately is reading.

 

I agree with whomever said earlier that this is just one of those things that they are going to have to deal with. I can't create the perfect environment, so they will just have to deal with the good enough environment. If I were to try to separate them for school, I think the quality of what we do would suffer because I don't have enough time to work with each of them separately with as much intensity as I work with them together now, if that makes sense. I have enough time to do one content-rich day, not two. Maybe this would change as they get older, but for now, I do not expect any independent work from them. I want to be there as they go along to catch and correct mistakes immediately.

 

Tara

[St. Theophan Academy]

Thanks for all the great replies - I guess I need to just really think it over. I agree, they have to learn about competition, and I think we really have very little sibling rivalry. Glad to hear from all of you!