Let's talk about friends

[Mom-ninja.]

I had an hour appointment about my 8 yr old to discuss how to improve his behavior.

 

One thing that she mentioned was that ds needed to "play with friends every day." She made it a point to say that playing with his siblings was not the same. She said, "He needs friends. He needs to play with his friends every day."

 

I don't see how playing with friends every day is going to decrease his meltdowns and help him focus.

[homefront]

I'll agree with friends and siblings aren't the same but I think she trying to put a band-aid on a bigger issue. Kids do learn to control their issues/hide them around friends but for many this means more issues at home. I've seen kids go into super explosive meltdowns after time spent with friends/peers.

 

Sorry you didn't get better help.

[Tiramisu]

This sounds like someone who doesn't really support the idea of homeschooling and worries about *socialization*. She's not coming right out and expressing her reservations about your choice but addressing the area that concerns her most.

 

This won't really help you, but I once had a doctor suspect that one dd suffered from depression when she had a bad attitude during a well-check. It was obvious he attributed it to homeschooling, but wouldn't come out and say, "She's depressed because she is homeschooled." The irony was that she was only homeschooled for a month or two at that point and some of her issues were apparent for much longer, but he did not know her history.

[Caraway]

I find that friends normally make behavior worse. :glare:

[justamouse]

I would get another opinion if I could.:grouphug:

[Saille]

She said, "He needs friends. He needs to play with his friends every day."

 

This smacks to me of a public school attitude that every child should be in a class of same-age peers, every day, and that nothing else is appropriate or normal. It's possible that what she's saying is that being exposed to other people's expectations/reactions, especially people he has high incentive to please, will aid him in self-regulating his behavior. Even so:

 

1. I agree with the poster who said that he may learn to regulate in public, just to melt down at home, in which case you and she are still going to have to have a conversation about root causes.

 

2. There are definite disadvantages to a large, extra-family, same-age peer group, including a shift toward group standards and away from family culture, which can actually increase strife in the family, especially if peers start telling him your beliefs are chafing or unreasonable. That's one thing if you're cloistered and unhealthily restrictive, but it's something else again if you're simply talking about living according to a specific set of principles, and whether she likes it or not, that includes homeschooling.

 

Honestly? I'd find a professional who would agree ahead of time to respect the simple ground rule that homeschooling is NOT on the table as something to pick at. If your kid were public schooled, she would not immediately latch on to that as the problem. OTOH, if there are ample opportunities for social interaction and she realizes you never go, then that's something to talk about, whether it's b/c you and your child have different levels of need for social interaction, or b/c you're burned out from dealing with him, or b/c you dread taking him out b/c he melts down. But I think homeschooling is a red herring if it's popping up on her radar just b/c it's unusual TO HER.

[Lecka]

I don't see it helping behavior, but I do think it is nice for kids to play with kids besides siblings, sometimes.

 

Here is what I have..... I have 2 3-year-olds and a 7-year-old. I am good friends with a woman who has 4 kids, age 9,7,5, and 3.

 

Three of her kids are or have been in speech, and her oldest is getting evaluated for Aspergers right now.

 

My oldest son was in speech (he is still in speech but less often now), and my youngest son maybe has some issues we are just starting to look into.

 

Anyway -- my son plays with her 9-year-old very well, plus he plays with the 5-year-old a lot. And, he plays with the 7-year-old. The little kids play together (though it is mostly the two girls, and my son just a little).

 

I think it is so nice, though. For my friend -- she gets someone who will play with her older son plus her other sons. I get a great resource in her and my kids like her kids, too.

 

So it just makes me think -- if you could make friends with someone who has a younger child with some issues, and also an older child who could play with your son, maybe it would be win-win.

 

My older son is not going to take issues with any outbursts or tantrums either, and neither am I. Though this boy doesn't really tantrum, but if he did, it would not bother us -- we could have the same thing with our younger son.

 

But I think this is, like, a nice social opportunity. Not really a solution to any problem and not what I would want to hear as advice.

 

But it is so nice to know people who will not think anything if my son is making strange noises!!!! It is priceless.

[Mom-ninja.]

Sorry you didn't get better help.

 

This is my third "expert" and each one of them has not been very helpful.

 

 

 

This sounds like someone who doesn't really support the idea of homeschooling and worries about *socialization*. She's not coming right out and expressing her reservations about your choice but addressing the area that concerns her most.

 

 

 

This is what I suspect. The moment I said he was homeschooled she asked me if I ever considered putting him in school. I said we have but dh and I decided against it. Then she asked if I have asked my ds if he wants to go to school. I told her when we have mentioned it to him he had a massive panic attack and screamed for hours saying, "Don't send me away! I promise to be good!"

 

I didn't even mention to her that I'm not going to allow an 8 yr old to make a decision about his education and upbringing. :glare:

 

 

 

This smacks to me of a public school attitude that every child should be in a class of same-age peers, every day, and that nothing else is appropriate or normal. It's possible that what she's saying is that being exposed to other people's expectations/reactions, especially people he has high incentive to please, will aid him in self-regulating his behavior. Even so:

 

1. I agree with the poster who said that he may learn to regulate in public, just to melt down at home, in which case you and she are still going to have to have a conversation about root causes.

 

2. There are definite disadvantages to a large, extra-family, same-age peer group, including a shift toward group standards and away from family culture, which can actually increase strife in the family, especially if peers start telling him your beliefs are chafing or unreasonable. That's one thing if you're cloistered and unhealthily restrictive, but it's something else again if you're simply talking about living according to a specific set of principles, and whether she likes it or not, that includes homeschooling.

 

Honestly? I'd find a professional who would agree ahead of time to respect the simple ground rule that homeschooling is NOT on the table as something to pick at. If your kid were public schooled, she would not immediately latch on to that as the problem. OTOH, if there are ample opportunities for social interaction and she realizes you never go, then that's something to talk about, whether it's b/c you and your child have different levels of need for social interaction, or b/c you're burned out from dealing with him, or b/c you dread taking him out b/c he melts down. But I think homeschooling is a red herring if it's popping up on her radar just b/c it's unusual TO HER.

 

:iagree: with all your points. That's why I asked here. I wanted to see if I was being "blinded" by my intent to home school. DH and I feel strongly about family bonds. One of the best books I've read is Holding on to Your Kids.

 

She asked me how ds acts when we are with others. Well, he's the "perfect" child at co-op classes, karate, and piano. That's when she said that he is "getting something he needs from these other teachers and peers that he is not getting from you at home, and that's why he acts appropriately there." That's when she said he needs to play with friends every day. She said that going to co-op classes once a week, karate 2-3x a week, and piano once a week is not enough outside social interaction for him."

 

Really?

 

Sigh. I was really really looking forward to this consult. I have this person's books and I love them. They have been very helpful. So I was hoping talking to the real person who "gets" my child would be great.

 

I did get some suggestions I will try.

[Tiramisu]

Sigh. I was really really looking forward to this consult. I have this person's books and I love them. They have been very helpful. So I was hoping talking to the real person who "gets" my child would be great.

 

I'm sorry it worked out this way. :grouphug:

[PeterPan]

There could be a kernel of truth there. It IS true our kids will stretch and extend themselves to do for others where they might just let down their hair and not bother with us. Our np suggested that a babysitting job (older dc than yours obviously) was a situation where that would happen. So it's not like there's some kernel of truth there.

 

But what it's not latching onto is the lack of accountability those other situations accept for what happens during the times and what happens AFTERWARD when the dc has been over-stimulated or taken out of his routine or fed things he doesn't do well with or this or that. They don't accept responsibility for what happens afterward.

 

I think it's one of those kernels you could file as a "if I can find a situation where this would work and an age where it's appropriate, it's a reasonable idea." But to up the ante and say every day, I mean mercy that's a bit extreme. Even NT don't want that much EVERY day. Normal people want breaks.

 

Sorry your buddha turned out to be boobha. :(

[Targhee]

I agree siblings and friends are different. I don't know that any child needs friend play every day. BUT, I know that some kids really, really need that social time in order for them to be happy and centered. I could use friend time maybe once a week, or two. My DS and middle DD both really need friend time (and I am often hard up to give it to them - still have made only a couple of loose friendships since moving last summer. They just need it to feel happy. When they are happy the meltdowns decrease, the eagerness to please increases (ergo attentiveness and compliance). I also find that when they have doses of friend time they are better prepared to behave in social settings where play is not appropriate (watching a concert, eating at a restaurant, etc).

[Targhee]

She asked me how ds acts when we are with others. Well, he's the "perfect" child at co-op classes, karate, and piano. That's when she said that he is "getting something he needs from these other teachers and peers that he is not getting from you at home, and that's why he acts appropriately there." That's when she said he needs to play with friends every day. She said that going to co-op classes once a week, karate 2-3x a week, and piano once a week is not enough outside social interaction

 

First, I am sorry they "expert" wasn't better attuned to your concerns. I have been there with my kids, I know those who hear "homeschool" and immediately stop listening because they are certain it is the problem. Do keep looking. When finally found a pediatrician to dx DS's ADHD who had 3 ADHD kids herself. I still am pushing to get a better dx of oldest DD... Anyway, know that I am on your side. Knowing that, I do think that interacting in a class setting is different than just playing with friends and I think that is an element often missing from HS AND public school kids' lives. They need unstructured play with non-family peers for many reasons. I wish neighborhoods were more like what they were when I was young, and there were kids outside playing all the time and spontaneous play occurred. We don't have kids under 14 yrs old for at least a half mile radius, and I never see anyone in our neighborhood (except my own kids) playing outside :-(

[RamonaQ]

This is my third "expert" and each one of them has not been very helpful.

 

 

Sigh. I was really really looking forward to this consult. I have this person's books and I love them. They have been very helpful. So I was hoping talking to the real person who "gets" my child would be great.

 

 

I guess if this is someone that you admire and think is credible, I would want to understand more about this. Has she seen this help other kids? Is there any sort of research that backs this up? What is she thinking will transfer to your ds day-to-day behavior? How long should you try this?

[heart'sjoy]

Skills or areas of control from infant moving older.

 

monitoring nonverbal faces

monitoring voice tone

monitoring movement and recurring patterns in your environment and forming expectations

 

 

monitoring your own feelings

monitoring your own communication and nonverbals

 

monitoring progress toward a group goal

monitoring friends perceptions of success and enjoyment

 

 

There is a time when one -one healthy play is a skill they are ready developmentally to work on, and it might be worth it to cut one activity or even academic skill to make time for this employability skill.

 

Although the long term goal would be participating, planning, and even leading in a group, it would not be worth the time if there are missing foundational skills causing exhaustion and meltdowns.

 

This is a tiny snippet of RDI's developmental milestones. There would be 4-5 pages per year of milestones.

 

Yes, I think there would be research to support play time to reach developmental goals with a big IF:

-if the child has reached the other foundational milestones

-if their are concrete mearsureable goals to evaluate the playtime effectiveness

 

My child was at this level and we adjusted some academic content to make time for an afternoon a week for friend play. I had written goals and monitored for these. We've made some progress and can now work on some higher level group goals.

 

 

Hope this helps to see where play might fit in social development goals.

:grouphug:

 

And please know we're not a BTDT family, we've made some progress and still have a long way to go too. It's just that seeing my child's skills on a developmental timeline really helped to gain a perspective on what to reasonably expect from my child and how to get goals we could actually work on.

[Dobela]

I think you have been given some great advice. I just want to remind you that even in public school a child is not going to play with friends every day. At most they might get 5 days a week - if both children are at school, in the same classroom. Even then there are many variables. I don't know if your library has any activities you can join, but I would recommend activities with common interests at first, like a LEGO club if possible. Sometimes having a goal other than a generic 'play with friends' is a good ice breaker and can help you both connect to other families.

[tlshive]

Not sure where your lil' man is at, but our DD8 really struggles with SPD and multiple delays and the over stimulation of social situations. She was in school - two years of preschool and one and a half years of kindergarten. It was regularly a struggle and felt like we were only seeing the worst. I wanted to see the best, not just battling with her through the worst, so we pulled her out. She has been home for one and a half years now and we see a lot of progress. We are able to monitor/limit her social situations, which has truly helped. Yes, kids may learn to modulate when with peers, which is good, but daily interaction may be too much. Our DD needs her down time at home. She even needs to be home without her sibling, so she has the space all to herself. We have found that 2-3 activities per week are good for her, but not more than one in a day. She is extremely social and loves her 'friends' but is quick to get overwhelmed, or jealous and that can cause meltdowns and aggressive behavior. Remember, you are your child's best advocate. You know what he needs and although the advice of the professionals is great, we just have to weigh that against what we know about our kiddos.

 

Blessings!

[mommymilkies]

This smacks to me of a public school attitude that every child should be in a class of same-age peers, every day, and that nothing else is appropriate or normal. It's possible that what she's saying is that being exposed to other people's expectations/reactions, especially people he has high incentive to please, will aid him in self-regulating his behavior. Even so:

 

1. I agree with the poster who said that he may learn to regulate in public, just to melt down at home, in which case you and she are still going to have to have a conversation about root causes.

 

2. There are definite disadvantages to a large, extra-family, same-age peer group, including a shift toward group standards and away from family culture, which can actually increase strife in the family, especially if peers start telling him your beliefs are chafing or unreasonable. That's one thing if you're cloistered and unhealthily restrictive, but it's something else again if you're simply talking about living according to a specific set of principles, and whether she likes it or not, that includes homeschooling.

 

Honestly? I'd find a professional who would agree ahead of time to respect the simple ground rule that homeschooling is NOT on the table as something to pick at. If your kid were public schooled, she would not immediately latch on to that as the problem. OTOH, if there are ample opportunities for social interaction and she realizes you never go, then that's something to talk about, whether it's b/c you and your child have different levels of need for social interaction, or b/c you're burned out from dealing with him, or b/c you dread taking him out b/c he melts down. But I think homeschooling is a red herring if it's popping up on her radar just b/c it's unusual TO HER.

:iagree: that said, I do agree that kids need friends and peer interaction outside of their household. Not necessarily every day. Even in public school, there is usually very little (if any) time for such things!

 

My 10 yo is a little depressed about not having a lot of friends like he sees on shows about school. He doesn't seem to get that it's unrealistic fiction. A lot of adults also do not get this. Especially the extroverted ones who were popular as kids and had tons of friends. The situation is just not as lovely for the rest of us! I would look into more social activities like playdates, Lego club, 4H or whatnot, but these things usually work themselves out in time.