ivey_family Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My boys are 16 months apart. By the time they reach 7th and 8th grades, I'd really like them to be working very closely together on content subjects. One of my big goals is Omnibus starting around 7th grade, but I really don't want to teach the same stuff two years in a row, and have to do double the content myself, (if that makes sense?) Has anyone been able to eventually synch up two kids who are fairly close in age? How do you structure the earlier years to get them there - extra content with the oldest to delay the history loop a year? Pushing the younger one along a little more quickly? When would you expect them to really be getting closer together in thinking skills and abilities? Any thoughts and practical tips would be helpful! Another area I'm interested in synching up long term is writing. I'd like to use CW after the FLL sequence. Any reason NOT to start them in CW at the same time around 2nd and 3rd grades? Please know, this is merely a goal I'm exploring, and not in any way set in stone. If my kids can't hack it, we'll adapt and do what's best for them as any parent would. :) Regards, C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 They are young - does one show more academic readiness than the other? I'd just teach them together - check out Living Math and just read the same books with them both - I like FIAR for a gentle start. You'll probably separate in math I assume. Reading seems to be very individual, so who knows how fast they will learn. I've never used Omnibus so I can't comment there. I could put my eldest two together (18 mos apart) - If I did I would probably go with Memoria Press's 3rd or 4th grade sets. (Younger will be going into 3rd, elder into 5th, but he is 'young' for his grade. I would keep them separate in math.) I'm not combining next year because they are different learning styles and strengths, and I don't feel it would be fair to them. How I'll feel even next year I have no idea. I found it's best if I don't plan too far ahead - I think too much. :001_smile: Oh - and welcome to WTM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lexi_029 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) . Edited July 4, 2012 by Lexi_029 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivey_family Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 To clarify, I plan to develop phonics/reading and handwriting individually, but other skill subjects might end up being together. Ds#1 has been working through Webster's Syllabary for 6 months or so, very slowly. He should be reading in the next few months. I plan to try it out with Ds#2 later this year, like maybe when he's closer to 4 in the winter, but not push it if he's not ready. So, unless ds#2 turns out to be a genius;), I expect them to be roughly a year apart in learning to read, spell and write. I will start FLL1 with both at 1st/K ages and see what sticks. If it's not working for the younger one, no big there. Math will be done together for now because I'm doing mostly mental math stuff and measuring, games, etc for the first couple years. We'll see in a few years if they start more formal math (Ray's) around the same time. Science, lit and history will be fairly easy to keep together as long as I delay the history loop until ds#2 is ready. So, I guess, I'm slowly seeing a picture of how this might work, but still wondering if my picture is realistic. Kwim? I am a HUGE planner. My scope and sequence has been done since ds#1 was a baby. :D. As I said before, I'm willing to adapt wherever needed, but I work better with a defined plan and a sense of whether or not on I'm on a workable path. Regards, C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I kept my 2 together from the very start for content subjects. They are 2 years apart, and I just eased into this. I was using Sonlight, and when they were 5.5 & 3.5, I did Core A over 2 years, alternating those books with pre-k books my oldest had heard but my youngest hadn't yet enjoyed. We did science together as well, plus art, and as they grew, writing projects (they can both use the same writing prompt or learn about the same literary term and try to use it at their level of ability). Gradually we got to the point where both of them were in the recommended age range for the materials, I could tell my youngest was getting more out of it while my oldest was still thriving. I kept them together for science, history, Bible, and occasionally writing, until my oldest went into 7th. Then I let him do his own science but continued with history together. By the middle of 8th grade, he wanted to do history on his own, and for 9th grade he did a different history topic altogether. My plan was to always keep them together, but my son naturally wanted to separate a bit from his sister (he loves her & gets along well with her, but I think it was part needing to feel that he was doing higher grade level work, and part of a natural growing up process for him and wanting a bit more independence). All that to say...I think you can work towards combining them now. I know people whose children combine through high school, and it may work out that way for your kids--but I also encourage you to hold onto that plan loosely and always look towards what's best for each child. Separating has actually worked very well here. My daughter has had more time to explore science concepts she's interested in, and has excelled at our regional science fair. History was the hardest one for me to let go of, but my daughter now enjoys our one on one time, and my son can explore issues a bit more deeply than his sister was ready to. We still do nightly read-alouds, and I'm holding onto that as long as they let me! I love that time! They are 15 and 13, and haven't outgrown it...yet... Enjoy your children! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Combining everything but language and some maths in the early years is completely achievable and reasonable provided one of your children is not gifted or learning disabled or something else that would seperate them further. Simply do some one off and supplemental stuff with your school age child this year, then next year start them both from the same book. No need for the elder child to be one book ahead, just delay his beginning of the first book, or accelerate the second childs beginning of the first book, depending on their maturity. Combining during highschool is actually harder, not easier. Kids develop different strengths and weaknesses, they have different interests and different learning styles, and they want some independence as well. Some kids will combine well for high school, but I know my sister and I simply could not combine, it would never have worked. On the other hand our two younger siblings did combine quite successfully, as a slightly behind 3rd grade boy and a bright 1st grade girl they were right on the same level, 2nd grade books fit them perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My older two are 18 months apart and really combining has never really worked. They are 11 and 12 right now. My older has always been a very strong student and academics are not the 11yos strongest suit. My oldest has always been a strong reader (reading well at 4 1/2) likes to write and spells well. The 11yo didn't learn to read until almost 10 can't spell and writing really takes it out of him (on the other hand he is out fixing the gate on the chicken coop right now, and yesterday spent the day adding floats and fins to a remote control car and now it can drive across the pond.) That doesn't mean that they aren't studing the same things or even often using the same curriculum, but that I often have to make up two different assignments on most things anyway. For instance, we did Trail Guide to World Geography last year, my older answered the middle difficulty questions in complete sentances, the 11yo did the easest questions just writing the answers. In history they are both doing HO, but the older does 3 level outlines and more summaries and harder books, the next does 1 or 2 level outlines and less writing and easier books. Of course we've also got two littles that get added into content subjects too, so I am used to picking out several levels of books and varing assignments. Speaking of the two littles, they are just over 2 years apart, but I think they will be easier to combine then the older two. I have the typical schooly little girl and less appriciative of seat work little boy and finding a place in the middle that they meet at seems to be easier then with the olders. For next year I am planning everything they do together (although the 4yo still will have school as optional, I just think she will usually choose to do it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Our boys are 20 months apart. Throughout grades 1-7, we were able to do all Science, History, Geography, Critical Thinking, Vocabulary, Read Alouds, Bible, Art and a lot of extracurriculars all together. It was easy and natural with no problems, as a lot of it is reading together. Anything like a workbook (we didn't use many) was separate at whatever level each was working at. Due to older son being at the older end for his grade level, and younger DS having mild LDs, their math and language arts were always 2-3 grades apart, so those subjects were handled separately. And of course, we had the level/amount of writing for History and Science match up with their LA grade level. They each had their own readers at their own level. Math, Writing and Spelling were completely separate, as they were working at such different grade levels and needed completely different programs to fit the learning styles and the younger DS's learning issue needs. To give our DSs some "breathing space" apart (to decrease competition and too MUCH togetherness) during the elementary years, I had about an hour per day of solo work or fun educational things that one would do while I worked one-on-one with the sibling, and then switched. Once older son reached grade 8, I moved him in to his own Science, as he needed to start working at a high school level there. To facilitate that transition, I also had DSs working on completely different science topics, so they each could more easily follow the traditional high school science progression of 8th = Physical Science; 9th/10th = Biology and Anatomy; 11th = Chemistry; 12th = Physics. He was also more ready for more solo/independent working by that time so it was good for him to separate out. So for grades 8-12, the only things we were able to do together were: Literature; History; Logic; and some extracurriculars. Everything else required doing completely separate things. And then, of course, when older DS took dual enrollment courses at the community college, DSs were even more "doing their own thing" with school. Most likely, you will start off with fewer things they can do together when very young, then once both are past pre-school, many things together. And then different interests, different abilities -- maybe even a *need* to give them more "space" and separate schoolwork so there's not so much competition! -- may require splitting apart again. The one caveat I have is, especially with boys who tend to be competitive (and it only takes ONE out of the two to make EVERYTHING a competition -- ask me how I know!!!), you need to also give them space and materials that are JUST theirs. Too MUCH togetherness can cause a lot of attitude issues -- antagonism and resentment -- that not only damages the sibling and family relationships, but is very counter-productive to making schooling easier -- which, is one of the reasons a mom likes to school everyone all together... However, I think you'll find it will be pretty clear what you can and can't do all together throughout the years. Enjoy your homeschooling adventures! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. ETA: PS -- About delaying the History loop to wait for the younger DS to be ready: You will still have your youngest to eventually fold in there and she will be "off-cycle", so don't feel you have to wait on doing History with the older DS *if* he is ready and interested; eventually all the children get to all the History periods. (We started homeschooling when DSs were 1st and 2nd grades, so I compromised -- we started with Ancient History for both, but went with Earth Science for the science. It worked great!) Also, re: History cycle -- be prepared for the possibility of you never know what might come up -- special opportunity to take advantage that is off-cycle, or a curriculum you really want to do, or the children love a particular time period and want to stay there for a long while, or you want to do a year or two of American History or state history -- lots of things can come up and bump you out of a "traditional" 4-year history cycle. It's okay! (For example: our plan had been to do three 4-year History cycles, ala WTM. However, we "bunny-trailed" a lot to follow interests and then also did a year of US History so we only managed one 6-year History cycle, and then took a year off in for a World Culture/Geography and Comparative Religions focus in middle school that was a fabulous prep for then doing History and Worldview studies in high school... Not what I had originally planned -- but it turned out a LOT better than my original plan! :) ) And while it is great to have long range plans (i.e., doing Omnibus starting in 7th grade) -- that is a VERY long way ahead. You may find as you get closer to that time that NEITHER of your DSs will be ready for Omnibus until, say 9th grade. (Omnibus is pretty advanced for middle school, IMO.) Or that it totally does not fit their learning style. Or that it no longer fits your family circumstances/interests/needs. Or that something "better" comes along between now and then. Gently, I'm just suggesting to not "lock on" now to a particular curriculum you won't use until much farther down the road. (The roadside of our homeschooling journey is littered with MANY programs I had planned on, but when we got to that point, had to discard the program and all my well-thought out plans and research due to various reasons...;)) But, what you can do, is think about that Omnibus I is ancients; and you are thinking you'd like to do ancients, say, along about 7th (or maybe 8th or 9th) grade. So, that means you can use that fact and work backwards to allow you to make a very general plan of what History (and/or other Social Studies) you might like to cover between now and then. Edited July 4, 2012 by Lori D. added a PS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My older two are sixteen months apart. Last year, Abby did K. I folded in Emmett where I could. She was required to read to me and do math with me. When we did FIAR, though, Emmett typically sat in. Emmett is now doing reading lessons, Abby is still reading to me, and they both will have separate math lessons. I plan to combine the in history, science and art this coming year. It will be required, but I won't be expecting the same caliber of learning from Emmett (who turns five at the end of October). If they were in PS, Abby would be going into first grade this year and Emmett would be starting PreK (due to his birthday being later in the year). Starting Emmett in "K" this year allows him to be closer to his sister in lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punks in Ontario Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My olders are 18 months apart, but two calendar years. They have usually done everything together except math and some science which the younger is 1 year behind. The younger is quite strong academically, so this has been very easy. Both began in omnibus and were competent with it. However, they have developed different interests and strengths so they are taking slightly different paths as they do high school. The older is not a language/lit guy so he has done Canadian studies instead of omnibus. The younger has done some, but we'll likely be using a different program for him. My youngers who are 8 and 9 are only 14 months apart, but 2 calendar years. The younger guy is less strong academically while the older is eager to keep learning, so the gap is actually greater for them than the olders. I'm finding it difficult to sync these two even in content related materials Just keep teaching with them. Let the younger hear/see the olders lessons, and see what he catches. It will be more apparent as they grow if you can combine them for something like omnibus. Or you could wait until the younger is ready to start both of them. The material is meaty enough that the older will not be behind. Or you could expect meatier responses from the older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khall Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Kids develop different strengths and weaknesses, they have different interests and different learning styles, and they want some independence as well. . :iagree: We have found that as ours get older, it is much more difficult to combine them. They have completely different interests and what one finds engaging, the other finds tedious. When they were around 7 & 9, combining for history and science worked really well, and if yours develop similar interests, maybe it will work out well to combine them for the long haul. For us it hasn't worked that way, and you might need to be prepared to revise your long term plans at some point based on how they develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeganW Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My kids are 17 months apart. We are still early in our HSing, so I don't know what we will look like long-term, but currently here is what we do. All content subjects are done together (history, science, art, etc.). I do all skill subjects together (phonics, handwriting, math), but then spend extra one-on-one time with the two kids who need extra support to stay caught up with the other two. We go as fast as we can without leaving anyone behind. I will admit that two of my children could move forward more quickly and are being held back a little just so that I can keep the majority of our work together. When they are more independent, I will probably let those two go at their own pace. For now, though, this is what works for us, and I just refuse to feel guilty about it! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivey_family Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 You all have given me a lot to think about and this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for - what combining looks like and where it may not work. I really appreciate all the thoughtful replies! I am a former MS/HS teacher, so I don't have a clear picture of how homeschooling will be different from brick schools at that level. I also know teachers aren't always flexible enough for homeschooling, and I admit that holds true for me at times. :001_smile: Thank you again for sharing! I will be re-reading carefully! Regards, C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Has anyone been able to eventually synch up two kids who are fairly close in age? How do you structure the earlier years to get them there - extra content with the oldest to delay the history loop a year? Pushing the younger one along a little more quickly? When would you expect them to really be getting closer together in thinking skills and abilities? Any thoughts and practical tips would be helpful! Regards, C. My 1st two boys are 15 mo apart. With them, it was easy. When I first starting doing formal kindergarten with my oldest, his younger brother insisted on being part of the lessons. He would NOT be left out of anything his big brother was doing. Those two ended up doing the same work for everything except math and grammar by the time they were about 5 & 6, and for everything but math by 4th & 5th. In high school, the younger boy (who was ahead of his brother in math by the end of the year they were K & 2nd grade) ended up doing more challenging science also, but they did the same literature, history, geography, writing, etc--though the older boy did extra history because it interested him. For my younger two (16 mo apart) it has been more difficult. They are studying the same time period in history for this year and using the same science (Ellen J McHenry Elements & Cells, with some TOPS units), but they are nowhere near the same level for writing, grammar, reading, etc. Although I try to combine them for various subjects once in a while, it hasn't worked out very well overall so far. I doubt I will be able to combine them in high school like I did with their brothers. So, combining them both is a definite possibility, but be prepared with a back-up plan if it doesn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I am a former MS/HS teacher, so... I ... know teachers aren't always flexible enough for homeschooling, and I admit that holds true for me at times. :001_smile: Don't worry -- like exercise, you stick with the homeschooling for a few years and you'll be doing backbends and the splits with ease! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sharkgirl Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Mine are 17 months apart and when I begin homeschooling in the fall, I will do Math and Reading separately because they are in different places, although the 3.5 year old is gaining on her brother in reading. My son, who will be 5 next week, has an incredible memory. I taught him my phone number in one day. It has been weeks and my daughter still doesn't know it. I will allow the 3.5 year oldto sit in on the science, history and grammar lessons but I won't require her to do the memory work at this time. Because my son is advanced (thanks to Montesori school), he'll be working on kindergarten and 1st grade subjects. My girl will have to go slower. DH says she's smarter than I give her credit for, but he's also not the one working with the children in the evenings. :glare: They are different, lessons have to be presented differently, and even though I had hoped to eventually combine most of their lessons, I'm not sure if it will be possible. But who knows, they are young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I thought it might be helpful to give you some specifics of what DID work to do together, regardless of interests, abilities, or learning style: - read alouds - field trips - discussions - Bible devotions - science and history factual information reading - science experiments/hands-on - history/art/etc. projects - PE in the form of family activities (hike, canoe, play tennis together, etc.) - morning "together time" (anything from saying the pledge, to doing calendar or weather activities, to reading a miscellaneous book, or doing a critical thinking or logic puzzle/game, to memorization work, etc.; some people do a weekly "tea time" all together with special tea or snack and read/learn a poem for poetry appreciation) supplemental activities: - Science, History: watching documentaries/educational videos - History: watching feature films set in particular history period/culture - Geography: making/eating food from specific culture/country - All Subjects: play games (ex: Monopoly for math/making change; The Secret Room for logic; etc. -- if you have a student with learning issues, then some math or spelling based games are hard and frustrating for that student) - crafts from kits Things that are hard to do together with the other sibling simultaneously (unless sibling has own separate work): - memorize math facts, spelling words, etc. - "seatwork", workbooks, math pages, etc. - student learning/practicing out loud reading - writing instruction, doing writing, dictation, copywork/handwriting, etc. - educational software - musical instrument practice Hope that helps you get started! Thinking/planning! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The one caveat I have is, especially with boys who tend to be competitive (and it only takes ONE out of the two to make EVERYTHING a competition -- ask me how I know!!!), you need to also give them space and materials that are JUST theirs. Too MUCH togetherness can cause a lot of attitude issues -- antagonism and resentment -- that not only damages the sibling and family relationships, but is very counter-productive to making schooling easier -- which, is one of the reasons a mom likes to school everyone all together... However, I think you'll find it will be pretty clear what you can and can't do all together throughout the years. Enjoy your homeschooling adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D. Very true. My boys are 16 months apart. By personality, the older is very laid back and non-competitive, but the younger is highly competitive as well as highly academically capable. Whatever older brother can do, younger can do better. It was demoralizing to the older to keep them together. I realize some people have a nice chat with the competitive one and everything is then hunky-dory. Not so in my reality :) (and I often wonder about those stories :p). Anyway, although they were in the same level of math in the early years, I had to use different programs. That allowed the older to set his own pace without younger looking over his shoulder. Finally I put them back in the same program DM 2 (Singapore) because the older finally caught up in his math ability. They both finished DM 3 and most of 4 this past year. Things that could be done together (after they learned to read) History Science Writing (because it is so subjective anyway and the older was much more creative in his construction) Latin - because we were all terrible at it :) Things we separated: Math Language Arts Fast forward to high school now: We did sciences together until this upcoming year - older will take biology at the CC and younger will do something at home with me (probably AP physics). We did language arts (MCT) together. Math - older is taking college algebra this summer at the CC and younger will take it in the fall as a concurrent student (older will take trig). At this point they are on separate tracks. The older has already had a full semester of 9 hours at the CC so the younger will essentially be following his older brother. In an ideal world, it would be nice to combine, but my reality was that there was so much variation in ability and drive that it wasn't possible. However, at every level we have combined something - usually literature/history/language arts (after the first few years - once they had the basics down). If you find that you can combine do it, but be sure that you are watching out for those subtle cues that it might not be working for one of them. Then switch things up :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avazquez24 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 My two kids are 15 months apart.....dd will be going into 1st grade this year and ds will be starting kider. For this year I plan on doing separate reading/phonics, spelling, math and handwriting. For together, I plan on doing science, history, art, and read alouds. DD will be doing WWE and FLL (which ds wont' be doing). DD is much more 'advanced' than ds (even at the same age), so there really is no way of doing other subjects together without holding her back. I don't want to do that, as that's a major reason for homeschooling:001_smile: I can move at their individual levels and pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 My older two are 13 months apart. They typically do everything except math together. There was a year (when they were in 5th/4th) where I had to separate them in everything but history & science, but now they're back together. This year they'll be in 8th & 7th, and I'll be starting Omnibus I with them. The only thing that will be separate is math. They'll be doing the same writing, logic, grammar, Latin, and Greek. This has worked well for us, except for that one year. My next 2 are 18 months apart. I haven't figured out how to combine them in anything (except history & science) yet, and with their personalities, I'm not sure I ever will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherDanae Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Very interested in doing this as well! Great advice in this thread! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivey_family Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Again, many thanks for all the replies! It sounds like everyone has been able to combine at least one or two areas more often than not. Honestly, if we're only able to combine in history and lit towards the logic and rhetoric years, I think I will be satisfied since I anticipate those will be the most mom-intensive areas. Lori D. your list is very helpful! Thank you for taking the time to write it out! JudoMom I dug into your blog last night when you mentioned you will be doing Omnibus. I'd love to hear how that goes for you! Regards, C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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