Dog people, I need HELP!!!

[mommytobees]

Morning!!

 

I need some dog help! Let me say this first, at this time I in NO WAY am going to consider getting rid of my dog. So if your comment is to get rid of the dog, please don't waste my or your time posting to tell me to get rid of her.

 

I have an 11-month old Australian shepherd. She is fixed and very well trained, for the most part, she is still very much a puppy. A fully-grown 45 lbs puppy, but a puppy still. We have worked hard to socialize her with humans and with other dogs, BUT, alas we've not had her around many tiny-humans.

 

**** this got long, if you don't want all the details, head down to the next set of stars ****

 

My best-friend arrived last night to stay about 12 hours on her way to Florida. She has 7 children. Loud children. Ages 15 down to a 6 & 3 year olds.

 

We were NOT on top of things and did NOT introduce the dog in a well-controlled environment. Which is _MY_ fault. I understand that this is my fault.

 

She growled and snapped at the two youngest. Really, all of the kids that aren't "adult-sized" last night. We were proactive and crated her in my bedroom with the door closed and left her there. She wasn't happy per say, but she was content. This morning I leashed her to my waist and controlled ALL of her interactions from 6am (when she and I got up) until about 9 when they started getting ready to leave and thus the house started turning into loud and busy again.

 

****

 

My problem:

1) she growls at the youngest child (3 year old girl);

2) she growls at the 6yo boy if he is not CALM CALM;

3) the dog almost bit the 6 year old boy when he provoked her (he was told to back off and he was swinging his jammie pants around his head and hooting loudly _while_ trying to pet her---all this while she was leashed to be and behind my chair and he was in front of me);

and

4) if ANY of the kids start getting really loud and rambunctious she wigs out.

 

This is NOT our normal life. We don't normally have this many people or that noise level in our house.

 

What can I do about the dog? Do I just assume that she should NOT be put in that situation? What if I can't control it (the situation)? Is she NOT trustworthy around little kids?

 

Thoughts? Ideas of what to do WITH her?

 

I am NOT getting rid of her. The only time she actually snapped to bite she was provoked and she did NOT break the skin. IMO that was the HUMAN's fault (both my friend and myself AND her 6 year old).

 

Thanks,

Kris

[gingersmom]

I can totally relate. I have a 75 pound, 15 month old puppy (a giant sized puppy!)

 

My kids are both teenagers and tall teenagers at that. She has only been around adults and teenagers.

 

When we are out on walks she is definitely not comfortable around loud yelling small people. She starts to bark at them, wants to chase them, maybe herd them, I'm not quite sure.

 

I would just try to make sure she is not in a situation like that again. If she is going to be around small people I would make sure that she is 100% in your control or safely locked away in another part of the house.

[Home'scool]

This sounds similiar to my dog.

 

I have a Pembroke Welsch Corgi. I think the herding breeds have a tendency to nip or snap at kids when things get loud and chaotic.

 

Our dog is fine around adults, and I never have to watch him for that, but I have learned to keep a very close eye on him when there are young children around. If I have him out in public and a young child wants to pet him I always say "Oh, he is pretty shy and is afraid to be pet." This helps avoid any problems.

 

We don't have problems with him snapping or growling at us, so I don't read it as an aggression issue. I just see it as part of his breed and do not leave him unattended around young kids.

[ktgrok]

Two things. ONe is management. Keep her away from kids except when working on desensitization. The second is to work on desensitizing her. Take her to a playground area nd keep her far enough away that she is watching, but not upset. Feed her the yummiest stuff ever. Leave. Do this every couple of days. Gradually get closer and closer, but again, never so close she is getting tense. Eventually try to work up to being right at the playground. But...again...never let her even get tense. If she is showing eye whites, getting stiff, not wanting the treats, etc you are pushing too fast.

[Impish]

I'd crate her while the kids are running amok. Just not worth the risk, imo.

[WistfulRidge]

I agree that, given what you have said, that it is not the dog's fault for snapping. I'm thinking that your friend and her kids are gone now, right? If not I would continue to crate the dog until they leave. That will just be safest all around.

 

Next, I'd work at getting her more socialized with kids. Find some younger children that are well behaved and/or have been taught "animal manners" (sadly, probably a tall order). Have them sit with you and pet her, talk with her, etc and give her treats. You want to form a positive association because right now she has developed a somewhat negative association with small ones. Obviously take her away if she gets antsy. Try to slowly work up your sessions to the point where the little ones can be excited and playing with her. Expose her to more kid-noise: crate her (a safe place) with a treat or favorite toy and have small kids playing nearby just so that she can get used to the noises and exuberance that tends to come with tiny ones.

 

Given her age it is possible that she will never be comfortable around small children/lots of chaos. As long as you know that and react accordingly (crating her if you know that things will get to overwhelming for her, not taking her into situations that might provoke her) everything should be fine. I think we would all prefer to have pets that are bomb proof around small children, but as long as you are vigilant about the situation and honest with yourself and everyone else about your dog's limitations it is not the end of the world.

[TheReader]

agreeing with the "keep her contained until she's better socialized to small people" and the "work on socializing her/desensitizing her."

 

I think it's manageable and you've gotten good suggestions so far. I would add, before introducing her to small guests in your home, make sure you give the small guests "rules on doggy behavior" in kid-friendly language. Explain that dogs get scared just like kids, and loud noise scares her. But since she can't talk, she shows she is scared by barking, growling &/or snapping. If the kids are old enough, describe early warning signs --- ears back, stiff, whatever behaviors your dog exhibits when stressed. Take it slow and easy, but do go over the rules with kids who visit BEFORE they are introduced to the dog.

 

Then (and probably only do this once you have worked with her some already) you can introduce one child at a time and show them how to let her smell their hand, and let the child give her a treat. This would be probably the LAST phase of socializing her, not the first, but would give her a positive association with that individual child next time you have small people guests.

 

If you still need other ideas, see if your area has a dog trainer who can work with you on this. I think it's completely manageable, but I am a dog novice not an expert.

[edeemarie]

We were having the same issue with our dog (then 9 months old), but it wasn't with kids-it was with other dogs. We took her to a dog trainer, and it was really worth it! The trainer worked little by little to get our dog introduced to other dogs, using a lot of positive reinforcements (she loves pepperoni!). We finally got her face to face with another dog and as soon as she started barking the trainer had a can filled with coins and she shook the can and said "NO!" in a very assertive voice. It worked like a charm and we can to find out that our dog was just scared of other dogs since she hadn't been around many others. So I would say just go slow and use A LOT of positive reinforcement for good behavior. The trainer even suggested we use a blanket and teach our dog "place" so that she knows to stay there when we need her to.

[SonshineLearner]

Honestly I'd take her to a good place that trains/socializes dogs and right away, too :) I'm not sure if you spent time properly socializing her, but it's seriously important :)

[dancer67]

I agree that, given what you have said, that it is not the dog's fault for snapping. I'm thinking that your friend and her kids are gone now, right? If not I would continue to crate the dog until they leave. That will just be safest all around.

 

Next, I'd work at getting her more socialized with kids. Find some younger children that are well behaved and/or have been taught "animal manners" (sadly, probably a tall order). Have them sit with you and pet her, talk with her, etc and give her treats. You want to form a positive association because right now she has developed a somewhat negative association with small ones. Obviously take her away if she gets antsy. Try to slowly work up your sessions to the point where the little ones can be excited and playing with her. Expose her to more kid-noise: crate her (a safe place) with a treat or favorite toy and have small kids playing nearby just so that she can get used to the noises and exuberance that tends to come with tiny ones.

 

Given her age it is possible that she will never be comfortable around small children/lots of chaos. As long as you know that and react accordingly (crating her if you know that things will get to overwhelming for her, not taking her into situations that might provoke her) everything should be fine. I think we would all prefer to have pets that are bomb proof around small children, but as long as you are vigilant about the situation and honest with yourself and everyone else about your dog's limitations it is not the end of the world.

 

:iagree:

 

And make sure you tell a child to never go to pet the dog on its head. That makes the dog think he might be hurt. ALWAYS, have anyone who is new, put their hand to their nose, palm down and let him/her sniff it.

 

I hope that you can get him used to small children before you have little ones over the house again. Crating them while you have company is going to make your dog even more on guard. Your dog(in his pea brained mind) is the head of his "pack". Once you have crated him with strangers over, children or not, they will feel out of control and it may make it worse.

 

I would get professional help with this situation.

 

I have owned and fostered dogs for a long time. And snapping at small children can be just a step before they start snapping and biting even adults. He is to unpredictable. Please seek out help before it gets worse. You puppy is still young enough to break this bad habit.

 

Good luck.

[mommytobees]

First, I'd like to say THANK YOU!! THank you for your thoughts and help!!!

 

This sounds similiar to my dog.

 

If I have him out in public and a young child wants to pet him I always say "Oh' date=' he is pretty shy and is afraid to be pet." This helps avoid any problems.

 

We don't have problems with him snapping or growling at us, so I don't read it as an aggression issue. I just see it as part of his breed and do not leave him unattended around young kids.[/quote']

 

Interesting thought and I like your phrase. I might use that.

 

I can totally relate. I have a 75 pound, 15 month old puppy (a giant sized puppy!)

 

I would just try to make sure she is not in a situation like that again. If she is going to be around small people I would make sure that she is 100% in your control or safely locked away in another part of the house.

 

This is what I'm beginning to think....

 

 

Two things. ONe is management. Keep her away from kids except when working on desensitization. The second is to work on desensitizing her. Take her to a playground area nd keep her far enough away that she is watching, but not upset. Feed her the yummiest stuff ever. Leave. Do this every couple of days. Gradually get closer and closer, but again, never so close she is getting tense. Eventually try to work up to being right at the playground. But...again...never let her even get tense. If she is showing eye whites, getting stiff, not wanting the treats, etc you are pushing too fast.

 

It is funny, we do this already. Well, no treats, but we go to parks and there are kids and they are noisy and crazy....but.... no one wants to pet her there. We aren't ever approached by noisy crazy kids....the rare occasion someone comes up to her they are walking and calm.

 

I'd crate her while the kids are running amok. Just not worth the risk, imo.

 

I'm heading in that direction.

 

 

taught "animal manners" (sadly, probably a tall order).

 

Given her age it is possible that she will never be comfortable around small children/lots of chaos. As long as you know that and react accordingly (crating her if you know that things will get to overwhelming for her, not taking her into situations that might provoke her) everything should be fine. I think we would all prefer to have pets that are bomb proof around small children, but as long as you are vigilant about the situation and honest with yourself and everyone else about your dog's limitations it is not the end of the world.

 

OH. Talk about not even thinking.... these children are NOT taught animal manners and I didn't even think about it. I have taught my children how you approach animals, even animals you _know_ and I didn't think about the fact that these children are _wild_. I love them, don't get me wrong, but they are wild little beasties and have NOT been taught how to approach animals.

 

I worked with the 10 & 8 year olds for a bit with the dog and it went very well. But, both girls *really* wanted to be able to pet her, they were willing to do what they were asked.

 

I DO think at this point I'm going to keep a reserve in my mind that she is NOT a small-child dog. If that is wrong and this just turned out to be a all-around bad and unique situation, then I'm okay with that.

 

 

 

And make sure you tell a child to never go to pet the dog on its head. That makes the dog think he might be hurt. ALWAYS, have anyone who is new, put their hand to their nose, palm down and let him/her sniff it.

 

Oh! You learn something new everyday. I didn't realize that was the reason to NOT try to pat the head. I'll remember this.

 

I hope that you can get him used to small children before you have little ones over the house again. Crating them while you have company is going to make your dog even more on guard. Your dog(in his pea brained mind) is the head of his "pack". Once you have crated him with strangers over, children or not, they will feel out of control and it may make it worse.

 

I would get professional help with this situation.

 

Well, I don't think this is going to happen (dealing with this before we have them back). This isn't going to fix itself quick and they are coming back on Sunday-Tuesday next week. I may ask her to not stay the one day while we deal with this issue. But, either way I can't tell her not to come. They have to stay somewhere and I'm free lodging. Sadly, my friend lost her husband a month ago and this is their memorial "dump daddy in the ocean" trip.

 

And, in response to the trainer... we already have one and I didn't like what she had to say so I came here. Our trainer left and her replacement doesn't know our dog and gave us some *really* bad information. I've talked to another trainer with the company this afternoon and she had more sound ideas that corresponded with things said here. I don't normally shop around until I hear what I want, but at this point getting rid of the dog is NOT the best option.

 

 

agreeing with the "keep her contained until she's better socialized to small people" and the "work on socializing her/desensitizing her."

 

I think it's manageable and you've gotten good suggestions so far. I would add, before introducing her to small guests in your home, make sure you give the small guests "rules on doggy behavior" in kid-friendly language. Explain that dogs get scared just like kids, and loud noise scares her. But since she can't talk, she shows she is scared by barking, growling &/or snapping. If the kids are old enough, describe early warning signs --- ears back, stiff, whatever behaviors your dog exhibits when stressed. Take it slow and easy, but do go over the rules with kids who visit BEFORE they are introduced to the dog.

 

Oh, I am *so* remembering that. That is a good idea. We've been much better about introducing the dog to people, and this was just a fluke, but I had not needed to instruct anyone yet.

 

 

a can filled with coins and she shook the can and said "NO!" in a very assertive voice. It worked like a charm

 

The trainer even suggested we use a blanket and teach our dog "place" so that she knows to stay there when we need her to.

 

LOL, I wonder if your trainer and our trainer learned the same method! We have a couple of Pepsi cans around the house with pennies in them and she has her "bed" which is a set of tiles in the corner.

 

But, neither of these methods would have worked with this situation. She was too scared.

 

Honestly I'd take her to a good place that trains/socializes dogs and right away, too :) I'm not sure if you spent time properly socializing her, but it's seriously important :)

 

Thankfully, we have a trainer.... or a newer one since this afternoon. We have spent a *ton* of time socializing her. But, not with tiny-peoples. We just don't have many in our lives right now. She sees them at the park, but really that is a much different situation.

 

 

Thank you again, everyone for your ideas.

 

Kris