Vent alert. Frustrated with DD.....

[lavender]

I was just looking at some of her grades on some of her online classes and she is doing poorly on about 3/4 of them! It seems as if little princess doesnt hand in homework on time or not at all. This really kills me because she gets A's on most of the exams, including some of the final exams, but the overall grade for the classes are C's D's and F's! UGH! I have talked to her time and time again about this all year long, and I'm pulling my hair at this point. Her Dad is going to be disappointed in her and angry at the money we spent on these classes. Essentially it all boils down to laziness on her part and her assumption that the teachers were going to "nanny" her along, reminding her of something due. She doesn't even bother to check her grades on the work she does manage to hand in or the grades in the class grade book.

 

I feel like giving up. I want to throw in the towel with her and withdraw her from all the classes I had already signed her up for next fall.

 

What would you ladies do?

Thank you for letting me vent. I have a headache now. And I want to cry.

[Jean in Newcastle]

How old is she?

[5LittleMonkeys]

Is this her freshman year? Is this the first year she has had this type of demand placed on her?

 

:grouphug:

 

You say that you have talked to her time and time again, but have you actually insisted that she either do the work under your watchful eye so you can make sure she does it or check her work for completion and make yourself present while she submits it? Are there any rewards or natural consequences(loss of privileges) at home for submitting or not submitting work?

 

Gently, since I don't know your exact situation, but I have heard over and over again, and even experienced once myself, that often when we hand over teaching to someone else we ourselves step too far back from the situation.

 

I may be in the minority in my thinking, but I feel that regardless of who is doing the teaching it is still my responsibility to make sure my dc are doing the work, understanding the material, and submitting work. Training dc to self regulate themselves in this way seems to take a long time, and I would expect my dc to be capable once they start college, but up to that point they still need me to model and monitor.

[lavender]

She recently turned fifteen and will start ninth grade in the fall.....if I last that long. (she should have been in ninth last fall, but I pulled her back because I felt she wasn't mentally mature enough for the responsibility....go figure!)

[lavender]

You say that you have talked to her time and time again, but have you actually insisted that she either do the work under your watchful eye so you can make sure she does it or check her work for completion and make yourself present while she submits it? Are there any rewards or natural consequences(loss of privileges) at home for submitting or not submitting work?

 

Gently, since I don't know your exact situation, but I have heard over and over again, and even experienced once myself, that often when we hand over teaching to someone else we ourselves step too far back from the situation.

 

yes, I have tried checking up on her and having her do the work while I'm watching, but with other children to teach, it can be a challenge keeping up with all her due dates. Already, DH says I spent too much academic time with her and not with her brother.

 

About your second point, I never thought of it that way, but I think you may be right. I'm starting to see that it would have been easier to NOT farm out certain classes and be subject to someone else's schedule. When I signed her up last year, it was in an effort to reduce my time and workload with her in favor of more time with the younger siblings. Clearly bombed. It felt like I was the one constantly playing catchup!

 

Ugh, so now where does this leave me?

[Julie in MN]

I was just looking at some of her grades on some of her online classes and she is doing poorly on about 3/4 of them! It seems as if little princess doesnt hand in homework on time or not at all. This really kills me because she gets A's on most of the exams, including some of the final exams, but the overall grade for the classes are C's D's and F's! UGH! I have talked to her time and time again about this all year long, and I'm pulling my hair at this point. Her Dad is going to be disappointed in her and angry at the money we spent on these classes. Essentially it all boils down to laziness on her part and her assumption that the teachers were going to "nanny" her along, reminding her of something due. She doesn't even bother to check her grades on the work she does manage to hand in or the grades in the class grade book.

 

I feel like giving up. I want to throw in the towel with her and withdraw her from all the classes I had already signed her up for next fall.

 

What would you ladies do?

Thank you for letting me vent. I have a headache now. And I want to cry.

Aw, :grouphug: I've definitely been there with the headache and wanting to cry.

 

Just as an outsider, I'll throw out some thoughts:

 

- 15 is hard; 16 started to be "over the hump" at our house

 

- from what I've heard, homeschoolers have a hard time transitioning to turning work in on time in college, so you have a great opportunity to spend 4 years working on this :)

 

- laziness is, well, just something all us humans have to fight, your dd doesn't have a corner on the market, she just needs help finding ways to fight it in herself

 

- remember that in a group school, she'd have all kinds of "nannies," from teachers to friends to looking over a classmate's shoulder; in this case, maybe you're "it"

 

- when you say "3/4" that seems to me she's doing at least 4 classes online, and maybe more; when you rethink next year, maybe you'll want to think one or two to start?

 

<we need a chocolate smilie >

Julie

[dlcricket]

Where is she taking online classes? What kind of deadlines does she have?

 

All three of ours have taken online classes full-time. I have to be involved in deadlines and accountability. Teens will often not do work if no one checks to see if its done. I also keep up with grades. My role is supervisor, and that requires involvement. Our oldest is graduating this year and is mostly independent in online work, but as a 9th grader, she needed supervision and help with time management.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It seems like there have been several threads like this in the last few weeks. Maybe I'm projecting some of the frustrations I feel when I look over what we've gotten done in some of our subjects. Or when I look over ds's German notebook and see that he has again missed assignments or parts of assignments.

 

I've been reminded of when ds was much younger and he developed a huge cavity in one of his teeth. Clearly visible when I went to investigate the pain he was complaining of.

 

I was venting to an acquaintance about how disappointed I was that he hadn't been brushing well enough to avoid this. This friend was a dentist and I guess I thought that she would commisserate with me. She gave me a look and said, "I find that when children have problems like this, it is often because the parent has not been doing their job either. A child is going to act like a child. We need to parent."

 

Stopped me in my tracks. Because she was right.

 

Most of the time when my kids are found to be wanting, there has been an accompanying failure of oversight on my part.

 

I would say that the single biggest challenge I foresee for high school is not letting them motor on into problems without my being there to correct them early on. But I can't correct difficulties or misunderstandings or lack of work if I haven't taken the time to check.

 

Not to reflect a negative opinion of any individual poster in this thread or other recent threads. But I think I at least have often been guilty of giving too much independence too soon, without spot checking regularly. Reining in my own laziness is usually a first step in dealing with laziness from my kids.

[Beth in Mint Hill]

This is a very difficult stage for both, mom and "student." Having seen this from both ends, mine when we homeschooled, and now from the online teacher's--I would second what Aime says.

 

Also, just take it easy, breathe deep, count your blessings, etc. etc. And know that she learns from your example, and she can adjust to more responsibility, if you don't give her too much responsibility all at once. I strongly believe in paring down the number of courses a students takes at any one time if and when they seem totally overwhelmed. Even if that means the transcript looks non-standard. There are worse things than a non-standard transcript or one that's not perfect. All three of our kids had very strange looking transcripts, yet they are doing wonderfully.

 

If you take the time to just be with her, modeling self-control and discipline to the best of your ability. It will go a long way to guide her gently and make sure that she knows how much you care, regardless of how well she "performs" at things. When my very bright oldest son got caught up in certain "social things" at this age and did irreparable damage to his transcript I was tempted to despair. But my main concern was his character and our relationship. I made it clear to him that we didn't care so much about the outward appearances, his record, or his grades, etc. But that we just wanted to be sure that he was always honest and that our communication was good. We cared about *him* and not how he was "turning out."

 

I was so shocked when he actually confided in me one day that he suddenly realized we loved him unconditionally, and that he didn't have to feel this huge pressure to live up to an image. I was shocked! How could he have doubted our intense love for him? Ever?? But they do. We don't realize how confused and hurt a rebellious teenager can be.

 

I am not assuming all of this about your daughter, but just thought I'd take this opp. to encourage any of you that are struggling through this c. 14-15yo stage. Oh, it is hard sometimes!!! How well I remember those days--don't push them away by giving them the impression that you will be forever uptight and upset with them if they don't live up to your high standards. They still need your love and acceptance more than anything, even as they are distancing themselves from you. Even as they make huge mistakes. They just need you to stand aside and let them have some freedom to make their way and yes perhaps, fall down a lot. But be there to help them pick up the pieces.

 

Its so difficult isn't it? It sometimes seemed to me like the endurance of Job wasn't enough. It seems like just a few months ago we were in the midst of pulling our hair out. We must keep saying: Dum spiro, spero! The fruit of their maturity later is so sweet! I'm experiencing that now.

[Kathie in VA]

All I can say is that I get what you are saying since I'm there also. My de went through this last year but we got on her case early enough for her to pull through with okay grades. This year she is in 11th grade, just turned 17. I was sick for about a month.. Combine that with a few other interuptions and her getting sick and she never did catch up. She was taking 3 outside classes. I pulled her out of one, creative writing.... Cause I figured catching up in a writing class would be really hard and I can just have her work on some grammar/ SAT prep for the 2nd half. Now it turns out that she still didn't catch up in her science class (Anatomy). She got a B the 1st and and an F the second...so she wants to make it up by doing the tests in the book for a grade...she does know the material well...she just hated the class cause it was boring to her.

 

Our plan is for her to take all classes next year at NOVA CC which doesn't really look at her grades.. :glare: she has always been the problem one...smart but prioritization challenged! So so much for summer break for her... Time to work on English and now more Anatomy! Perhaps I'll even charge her for those classes...she does have a job that she wants to keep. Although it seems that keeping her to ~8 hrs/ week might have been too much...though she will still argue against that idea.

[Gwen in VA]

1) Kids vary wildly in their readiness to step up to online work. And some kids really prefer "live" interaction, and the online route doesn't work for them.

 

Of my older three kids, two thrived doing online classes. One hated them with a passion, but thrived at the CC where there were "live" (in his words) people, a teacher who really "taught" (his word), and consistent reminders of deadlines.

 

2)

I think I at least have often been guilty of giving too much independence too soon, without spot checking regularly.

When you are paying $400-$600 for an online course, you want to believe that the teacher is responsible for handling the student and the schoolwork. But the screen and email are not nearly as effective as live people, and it requires a huge amount of organization on the part of the student to handle an online class.

 

Maybe you could sit down with her once a week, when the assignments are given out, and really go over what is due, how long she thinks each will take, and then help her make her own "schedule" of when she will do what.

 

If you don't have time to both help schedule and check the homework, I would put my time on the scheduling end. At least then you know what to ask her about when you are cooking dinner!

 

3) Some teachers are MUCH better than others at spelling out how to approach the class and which assignments should get priority. Others just give an abundance of assignments (read....take daily quizzes.....take weekly quiz....discuss this.....submit this.....write that.....) without ever explaining the why and the how of the abundance of assignments. It is possible that she had some disorganized teachers! (Dd2 had a preoccupied teacher (new baby) this year, and she had to go to older siblings to ask how they handled and prioritized the abundance of coursework since they all took the class several years ago.)

[at the beach]

:grouphug:

 

I don't think teens have the ability to manage their schooling independently even with online classes. There may be a rare teen who is super disciplined and motivated but I doubt it's common. It takes oversight and involvement on the part of a parent to keep teens on task.

 

How many kids are you homeschooling, and how old is your son whom dh refers to as needing more of your teaching attention?

 

What classes do you have your daughter taking and with what school/program? Maybe it was just too much too soon or too much screen time if the classes involve live meeting times.

 

If online classes aren't working but you want more outside accountability, have you thought about correspondence programs--something like American School (secular) or Seton (Catholic)?

 

What does your daughter say about all of this, and how does she envision her high school years? I would be doing a lot of talking with her about what she thinks went wrong this year and how she thinks it would best be remedied next year--in a nonjudgmental and supportive way.

[Teachin'Mine]

The goal is for them to graduate as students capable of working independently - they don't have to begin high school that way. :) Even though the classes are online, she may need to come up with some way of keeping track of assignments, and their due dates, off line. Marking them on the calendar might work, or a simple type of spread sheet. Something that she can keep and refer to often as a reminder of what's due when. Maybe you could make one up with her for one of the courses, and then let her design her own for the others. Then you could ask her to come up with a schedule of when she needs to check in with you and show you her completed work and touch base with where she is regarding assignments and tests. Let her come up with the dates and mark them clearly on the calendar or schedule, and then make a copy of all of this for you to follow as well. This way she can work a bit independently, but be accountable to you as well as to the teacher.

 

You want to set her up for success - which is no less meaningful if you have to guide her a bit. Then the next year, she'll probably need less frequent checking in. It's a process. Thankfully her grades this year aren't part of her high school transcript. Let her know that if she wants to continue with the online classes, she'll need to put forth more effort on her part, and that you'll be there to help. I think that it's great to start whatever classes or curricula you plan to use in high school in 8th grade. It can be a great learning experience.

[AK_Mom4]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

It's not the end of the world. Step in now and help her get organized - I know you are busy, but take an hour to sit down with her and help her figure out what is due during the next week. Write it down and post it on the fridge so you can follow up with her each day when you have a minute or two. Next week, it will take less time since you and she will both know what to look for - post it on the fridge again. The following week, she should be able to make up the list herself and just have you check it (to make sure she didn't overlook anything). Baby Steps!

 

And while her grades may stink this year, they wont affect her final high school GPA and you can at least feel good that she knows the material since she is doing well on the exams. It's really not so bad!

 

:grouphug: again. I have been thru this same scenario with ALL THREE of my older kids (public school, but same problem). You have lots of company beating your head on the desk!

[lavender]

Thank you ladies for all the hugs! :grouphug:

 

I do feel better. I suppose it is better to tackle this now rather than later on in high school. After having a family discussion, I think we are going to use the calendar app on her MacBook to sync up with my computer so that every assignment she writes in her calendar, it will alert her two days before due date and again on the actual due date. Also, DH set it up so that everything that gets put in her calendar automatically gets sen to my calendar and alert me too. (wow, didn't know DH could do that, where's he been all this time....)

 

We are also going to trim down some of the online classes, not do full time as she had been doing this year. Bringing half those subjects back home to my control. She says she really loves doing the classes online, but had trouble remembering to check if there was homework due. Although this was identified to be the biggest issue, there were a couple of classes that had double the homework of all the rest, and one teacher who was über disorganized ( even I couldn't figure out what was due when, even after emailing him, he couldn't read his own syllabus! ). Anyway, not making excuses. The issue is responsibility and organization on the part of Dd.

 

Maybe I thought she could handle the course load, but I guess "baby steps " are in order here. Hopefully the next four years of high school will give her practice and establish a routine for assignments due, before we ever get to college-level-anything. :tongue_smilie: