AAS as a reading program...and a question for Merry

[sweetpea3829]

First, there was mention of a thread on using AAS as a reading program. Can anybody point me to it?

 

I need to come up with a plan for DS5. He has blown through AAS1, is mostly a natural speller and is reading at a late 2nd, early 3rd grade level. It just comes natural to him.

 

He is finishing HOP2 and I'm not pleased with the instruction in it. I am thinking of using the AAS levels as reading instruction and am interested in seeing how others have done this.

 

Now, my question for Merry (I hope you see this!!!). I've seen your tiles mini office and I love it! I came across a tri-fold binder from Wal-Mart, on clearance (!) And am assembling my own mini office.

 

I noticed that your mini-office has tiles my set didn't come with. Are these tiles from a higher level? Or are they from AAR? Thanks!!!

[raceNzanesmom]

 

I noticed that your mini-office has tiles my set didn't come with. Are these tiles from a higher level? Or are they from AAR? Thanks!!!

 

I can help with this part. We're only in level 2, but it came with additional tiles for syllables and the jail.

 

hth.

[sweetpea3829]

So, do these extra tiles come automatically? I didn't see where they were listed anywhere.

[alisoncooks]

So, do these extra tiles come automatically? I didn't see where they were listed anywhere.

 

I just went and looked at my sets (I'd yet to open AAS2, so I was curious as well!) and they are included in the student materials packet.

[nukeswife]

The extra tiles if there are any needed for that level would come with the student materials packet.

 

I know in level 3 we got a bunch of suffex tiles. I believe one of the higher levels (maybe 4) comes with Prefix tiles.

 

So if there are tiles needed that weren't part of the original package they'll come with a student materials packet.

 

I love that since I have more than one child and get them each their own packet that I will automatically get the tiles for that level which means I'll have replacements just in case one gets lost or chewed by a dog.

[sweetpea3829]

This is good to know, thanks everyone. I'm not sure if my mini office will be long enough, but for now it'll work.

 

Now, does anybody have that thread about using AAS as a reading program?

[mo2]

 

Now, does anybody have that thread about using AAS as a reading program?

 

There have been several. I would just do a search for AAS and then click on any that have the word "reading" in the title.

[alisoncooks]

Try this thread:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350286&highlight=reading

 

and this:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267572&highlight=reading

Edited May 10, 2012 by alisoncooks

[carriede]

Excuse me, what is AAS? It's not listed in the abbreviations. Thanks!

[Tranquility7]

There have been a bunch of threads on that topic, so I'm not really sure which one you are referring to. However I wrote a long explanation as part of this thread, which I will cut and paste here, in case it is helpful:

I got a PM recently asking me how I did this, so I will share with you what I wrote. My experience is in using AAS to teaching Reading and Spelling to the same child - which for now you wouldn't need since your DS8 is reading already. But for your DD, you could use it as a reading program now and a spelling program later.

 

Here was my PM to the other mom:

We are huge fans of AAS and I’m happy to tell you how I manage it for both the reading and spelling.

 

I started AAS for reading first. I followed the first lessons exactly, using the whiteboard and tiles. It was really simple to turn the spelling lessons into reading lessons. We talked about the rules as we encountered them, but because I was focused on reading, I didn’t require him to actually *figure out* how something was spelled. Rather, I presented him with the words, and we used what we learned to sound out the word (we divided it into syllables, used our phonogram and rule knowledge, etc.).

 

I added the spelling rules to our memory work as we encountered them, but wasn’t too concerned whether he really *memorized* them this first time through. For example, I was more concerned that he knew that CK made a /c/ sound (which is a reading concept), not that he knew how to figure out when a word would be spelled with C, K, or CK (which is a spelling concept explicitly covered in AAS). We did always go through the lesson as written, discussing the spelling concepts, I just didn’t emphasize them or make him memorize them. As long as he could *read* all of the words in the lists and all of the dictated phrases and sentences, we moved on to the next lesson.

 

Along the way he did start wanting to write a word every now and then (outside of our lesson), so I would talk through with him how to spell whatever he was trying to write.

 

Somewhere in about Level 4 (I think; maybe 3), they started introducing “spelling strategiesâ€, which again, I have covered but not emphasized with him on this first run through the materials.

 

Once we were in about late Level 3 with the reading, I restarted Level 1, this time as a *spelling* program (while still continuing with the reading in the upper levels). We did the lessons again (though the concepts went quickly since he usually could somewhat remember them from before), and this time I had him spell for me the lists of words as well as do all the dictation.

 

I do the reading and spelling times separately, since we are in different books (5 and 3, respectively), and working on different concepts with them both.

 

I have no idea how typical our results are, but we have had GREAT success. We started the reading part less than a year ago, when DS was almost 5, and he has been easily reading the Boxcar Children series for the last couple of months (roughly 3rd grade level). He is also quite a good little speller, and often can figure out how to spell words far beyond where we are in the “spelling†program.

 

If I were you, I would get AAS for your DS(8) and then you can always try it out as a reading program for your DD(4.5) also. If you find it too hard to translate to reading, then get AAR.

 

I know there is no program that works for every child… but honestly I cannot say enough good things about AAS in our house!

[kitten18]

Excuse me, what is AAS? It's not listed in the abbreviations. Thanks!

All About Spelling

 

http://www.allaboutlearningpress.com/categories/All-About-Spelling/

[MerryAtHope]

LOL, looks like others answered before I saw it! Yes, the extra tiles come in higher levels. I wonder if you couldn't just use a separate page as an insert of sorts for the extras, and just lay it to the side of the open tri-fold when you are working, and tuck it inside for storage?

 

Glory/Maggie has a great description of how to use AAS for a reading program--working at two different places to focus on reading first and then going back through to focus on spelling is a great strategy.

 

Merry :-)

[sweetpea3829]

So, my next question is...will AAS eventually cover all of the reading phonics rules that a traditional phonics program would? Or would there be gaps?

 

And what level of AAS would I need to purchase up to, if DS is finishing HOP2?

[tots2teens]

I've been trying to figure out the difference between AAS and AAR. Do I need AAR, do I need AAS, do I need both?

 

My 5yo dd knows all her letters/letter sounds and we've started some basic word family work but I would like to start on some kind of formal reading program with her.

 

Thank you for starting this thread. It has been helpful!

[raceNzanesmom]

Thank you Glory/Maggie!! I had looked for that thread the other day and couldn't find it.

 

So, my next question is...will AAS eventually cover all of the reading phonics rules that a traditional phonics program would? Or would there be gaps?

 

And what level of AAS would I need to purchase up to, if DS is finishing HOP2?

 

We're only on level 2, but yes, I think it'll cover everything and more.

Start with level 1 and move at his pace. That will likely be quickly in the beginning, but sets a solid foundation. Slow down when he needs it.

 

I've been trying to figure out the difference between AAS and AAR. Do I need AAR, do I need AAS, do I need both?

 

My 5yo dd knows all her letters/letter sounds and we've started some basic word family work but I would like to start on some kind of formal reading program with her.

 

Thank you for starting this thread. It has been helpful!

 

You have two options. Use AAR 1 and add AAS 1 when AAR 1 is completed. Or, do as Maggie suggested and use AAS 1 as a phonics program, then go back and use it for spelling. Since AAR 1 is available, and it sounds like she's ready for it, I'd probably start there.

[sleeplessnights]

AAR is a reading program. There are reading games, readers, and the lessons focus on recognizing how to read the letter groups.

 

AAS is a spelling program, which focuses on how to choose the right letter groups to make a word.

 

To me, they are completely different skills. They use the same tiles and the same phonograms, but the usage is different, and so are the lessons. You could make AAS work for reading instruction, but if you want step-by-step instruction on how to teach reading, you should buy AAR.

[MerryAtHope]

AAR is a reading program. There are reading games, readers, and the lessons focus on recognizing how to read the letter groups.

 

AAS is a spelling program, which focuses on how to choose the right letter groups to make a word.

 

To me, they are completely different skills. They use the same tiles and the same phonograms, but the usage is different, and so are the lessons. You could make AAS work for reading instruction, but if you want step-by-step instruction on how to teach reading, you should buy AAR.

 

Yes, different skills!

 

AAS and AAR both use the same sequence and the same phonograms. Both are complete phonics programs, so they are interrelated in that way. AAS teaches words from the spelling angle, and AAR teaches words from the reading angle.

 

All About Reading includes decoding skills, fluency, comprehension, vocabulary and lots and lots of reading practice. AAS focuses instead on encoding skills, spelling rules and other strategies that help children become good spellers.

 

For this reason, the programs are also independent of each other so students can move as quickly or as slowly as they need to with each skill.

 

If you want to use AAS to teach reading, then you will need to adjust the pacing (it's slow for reading) and probably go through the program twice (faster for reading, then more slowly to focus on spelling), and also add in your own teaching for blending, fluency, comprehension, and vocabulary, since AAS doesn't cover those. Some moms feel confident doing this on their own, others appreciate having a program that is scripted and all laid out for them. So it's a matter of mom's needs as teacher, and also the child's needs. (Some children learn reading more implicitly and don't need everything directly taught to them, while others need more direct, explicit reading instruction.)

 

Additionally, about 34% of children struggle with learning to read. These children will especially benefit from a program that is laid out for them incrementally. Marie did a webinar on preventing reading struggles that is really worth listening too--it was hosted by The Old Schoolhouse.

 

HTH! Merry :-)

[sweetpea3829]

My biggest issue with AAR right now is that the levels are not all out, not even close. My son will do just fine with AAS as a reading program, I think, as he picks up readily on phonics rules. I just need to make sure that all of the phonics rules he will need for reading will be covered at some point in AAS.

 

I'm very dissatisfied with HOP2 and it's complete lack of explanation of phonics. He is doing fine with reading, and is well above grade level, but he is also a "why is it that way" kind of kid and I frankly do not have time to look up the whys of every single phonics rule he encounters. The "rules" of AAS1 so far, have given him enough reason for his whys.

 

I really don't know what I want to do just yet...long term. We have the added struggle of DH being out of work with his leg injury so money is really really tight. I very much need to buy AAS2 but have to hold off, kwim?

 

And I very much need to come up with a phonics solution to further his reading instruction.

 

The rest of reading instruction (fluency, comprehension, etc) I feel fine tackling on my own. But this next level of phonics...eh, I need some guidance with it.

 

And then, I have to figure out how to meet DDs needs. She started out as an early reader, understands phonics rules just fine, has excellent phonemic awareness skills, but she is having a go of it with reading and I'm pretty sure it's vision related. So using AAS as a reading program for her might not work, but then again, it might.

 

I don't know...lol, mostly I'm just rambling.

 

Merry, I do thank you for sharing that mini office...I'm putting ours together and I think it will be very helpful for us.

 

Maggie, thanks for sharing that post! I think the approach you've taken will work well for my son, and I'm going to try that.

[MerryAtHope]

My biggest issue with AAR right now is that the levels are not all out, not even close. My son will do just fine with AAS as a reading program, I think, as he picks up readily on phonics rules. I just need to make sure that all of the phonics rules he will need for reading will be covered at some point in AAS.

 

That makes sense, and it sounds to me like you and he will do just great with AAS then!

 

And I very much need to come up with a phonics solution to further his reading instruction.

 

AAS will definitely have all of the phonics. Do you have the phonogram CD-ROM? You could teach him all of the sounds of the phonograms with that so that he can go forward with reading.

 

If you teach him the syllable types, he'll know how to chunk words into syllables and read them. The phonograms, segmenting, and syllables can carry you a long way with reading, and maybe that will tide you over until you can get AAS 2.

 

 

And then, I have to figure out how to meet DDs needs. She started out as an early reader, understands phonics rules just fine, has excellent phonemic awareness skills, but she is having a go of it with reading and I'm pretty sure it's vision related. So using AAS as a reading program for her might not work, but then again, it might.

 

Is she guessing a lot? If you look on the sample TM for AAR 1, you can see a blending technique that you can model for her and then have her do, that can really cut down on the guessing. You can also use an index card with a window cut in it that will show just a word or so at a time, or use a blank paper above or below the line she's reading (or both) to help her focus on one word or one line at a time. I don't know if you have the AALP readers with your son's AAS--the level 1 readers use phrasing and have a light dotted line underneath each line to really help kids with tracking issues.

 

Have you been looking at www.covd.org for vision processing issues for your dd? I was slow on realizing that my son had vision processing issues. I didn't know about it at all for several years, and then when I did first hear, all I heard was the controversy--and we have enough controversial medical decisions to make with my dh's disability, I wasn't up for taking a chance on more at first! So...until I did Vision Therapy for him (starting at age 12), the best things were Reading Reflex (phonograms, paper tiles, chunking words), and All About Spelling (which worked even better for him than RR and really filled in the gaps for him). All that to say...I'm sure VT is out of the question until your dh is working again, but if you're patient and keep working with her, you'll be able to help her make progress with AAS. If your library has RR, you might check it out for some variations on the types of activities you can do with the tiles. Or look at Elizabeth B's page for phonics activities you can do with her.

 

If you have readers for her, you can make all of the words (or just the harder ones) with tiles first to pre-teach them to her, before you present them in the book. Also do exercises like what you can see in the sample AAR TM, where you make a word, and then change one letter to make a new word, and so on. If she's beyond the 3-letter words, you can do this with harder words that are at her working level.

 

If she got stuck at consonant blends, especially beginning blends--that's a really common place for kids to get stuck. You can make a word without the blend (like fog) and then move the F over and add in the R to make "frog," and have her read the new word. The blending technique of touching each letter and saying the sound, then blending first 2, then 3, then all 4 sounds while drawing the finger underneath can really help her too.

 

Anyway, just some ideas for you, hang in there! I hope your dh finds another position soon.

 

Merry :-)

[skeeterbug]

I love that since I have more than one child and get them each their own packet that I will automatically get the tiles for that level which means I'll have replacements just in case one gets lost or chewed by a dog.

 

Is there a reason to purchase each student a new student packet? :confused: Other than the extra tiles, of course. Is it for when you have more than one at the same level? Just wondering if I'll need to do this when the time comes for my younger kids to be using AAS, right now I've just got one.

[sweetpea3829]

That makes sense, and it sounds to me like you and he will do just great with AAS then!

 

 

 

AAS will definitely have all of the phonics. Do you have the phonogram CD-ROM? You could teach him all of the sounds of the phonograms with that so that he can go forward with reading.

 

If you teach him the syllable types, he'll know how to chunk words into syllables and read them. The phonograms, segmenting, and syllables can carry you a long way with reading, and maybe that will tide you over until you can get AAS 2.

 

 

 

 

Is she guessing a lot? If you look on the sample TM for AAR 1, you can see a blending technique that you can model for her and then have her do, that can really cut down on the guessing. You can also use an index card with a window cut in it that will show just a word or so at a time, or use a blank paper above or below the line she's reading (or both) to help her focus on one word or one line at a time. I don't know if you have the AALP readers with your son's AAS--the level 1 readers use phrasing and have a light dotted line underneath each line to really help kids with tracking issues.

 

Have you been looking at www.covd.org for vision processing issues for your dd? I was slow on realizing that my son had vision processing issues. I didn't know about it at all for several years, and then when I did first hear, all I heard was the controversy--and we have enough controversial medical decisions to make with my dh's disability, I wasn't up for taking a chance on more at first! So...until I did Vision Therapy for him (starting at age 12), the best things were Reading Reflex (phonograms, paper tiles, chunking words), and All About Spelling (which worked even better for him than RR and really filled in the gaps for him). All that to say...I'm sure VT is out of the question until your dh is working again, but if you're patient and keep working with her, you'll be able to help her make progress with AAS. If your library has RR, you might check it out for some variations on the types of activities you can do with the tiles. Or look at Elizabeth B's page for phonics activities you can do with her.

 

If you have readers for her, you can make all of the words (or just the harder ones) with tiles first to pre-teach them to her, before you present them in the book. Also do exercises like what you can see in the sample AAR TM, where you make a word, and then change one letter to make a new word, and so on. If she's beyond the 3-letter words, you can do this with harder words that are at her working level.

 

If she got stuck at consonant blends, especially beginning blends--that's a really common place for kids to get stuck. You can make a word without the blend (like fog) and then move the F over and add in the R to make "frog," and have her read the new word. The blending technique of touching each letter and saying the sound, then blending first 2, then 3, then all 4 sounds while drawing the finger underneath can really help her too.

 

Anyway, just some ideas for you, hang in there! I hope your dh finds another position soon.

 

Merry :-)

 

Merry, C is on the step right before learning about syllable types. Honestly, though, he's just a natural reader. He's the kind of kid that whole language instruction would work really well for. Once he sees a type of phonics rule, he remembers it. Spelling has been easy for him, but not quite as natural. He needs to be exposed to the various spelling rules. Once he is, though, he'll generally "get it."

 

G is more of my concern than anything right now. She's not exactly "guessing" but she skips words, adds words, adds suffixes, races through sentences that have words she's not sure of, sees the first letter of a word and the last letter of a word and makes an assumption on what word should be there (there's that guessing piece!). Champ is chap, chap is champ, etc. She was doing fine until we started the blends and digraphs....and even then she was ok. But it was soon after that that she hit the wall and has made little to no progress since (it's been about three months).

 

I post on hsdyslexickids yahoo group and there's a member there that pointed me to developmental vision issues. G is being assessed for these issues. So far, we've determined that her eyes are far-sighted with near-sighted astimatism...which makes it nearly impossible for her eyes to focus on print. Glasses have not helped her in school, though they are probably helping her focus better.

 

On top of it, she struggles with directionality, spatial skills, math reasoning, logic, patterning, number sense (she really has no clue how numbers relate to each other, etc. 13 is 30 or 31, 12 is 20. She does not grasp the idea of beginning, middle, end as it relates to a line of objects. This makes it difficult for her to spell words, as she has no concept of where to put the tiles (though she pulls the correct sounds down).

 

There's a receptive language piece here, too...and I'm not sure how it all relates.

 

Right now, our first step is the vision piece...when we have that explored fully, we'll have the full psychological write-up.

 

My husband is severely dyslexic...I'm almost positive she is too...but there is one aspect of her development that does NOT fit the dyslexia picture...that she was an early phonics learner...she picked up on the letter names and their sounds very easily...and she learned how to blend them easily and early. Her phonemic awareness skills are solid. This does not fit dyslexics...which makes me wonder...

 

At any rate...thank you for your help and information and kind words regarding my husband...he's actually out of work because of a broken leg and will definitely have a position to return to. We just need to get him healed up. We're going on 4 months now...which has deflated all of our plans for the year. But it's ok...God is in control and has plans for this. It's not what we wanted, but what He wanted and knew we needed. :-)

[MerryAtHope]

Is there a reason to purchase each student a new student packet? :confused: Other than the extra tiles, of course. Is it for when you have more than one at the same level? Just wondering if I'll need to do this when the time comes for my younger kids to be using AAS, right now I've just got one.

 

All of the phonogram, key, and sound cards stay in the review box from level to level, plus any word cards that may need more review. If you have students who learn easily, you could just borrow the earlier sound, phonogram, and key cards when the time comes for a mastered review (usually twice per level--the first step and then one later on in the level). This works easiest if your kids are at least 2 levels apart.

 

However, if you have any students who struggle with spelling for any reason or one who has dyslexia or other learning issues, then you should have a card set for each student. Those students will need to review the cards much more often and it won't be practical to borrow them.

 

HTH! Merry :-)

[MerryAtHope]

 

G is more of my concern than anything right now. She's not exactly "guessing" but she skips words, adds words, adds suffixes, races through sentences that have words she's not sure of, sees the first letter of a word and the last letter of a word and makes an assumption on what word should be there (there's that guessing piece!). Champ is chap, chap is champ, etc. She was doing fine until we started the blends and digraphs....and even then she was ok. But it was soon after that that she hit the wall and has made little to no progress since (it's been about three months).

 

The blending method on the AAR sample I linked before will help some with that. When she makes that kind of mistake, have her go back and point to each sound, unless she is catching herself before you do.

 

 

I post on hsdyslexickids yahoo group and there's a member there that pointed me to developmental vision issues. G is being assessed for these issues. So far, we've determined that her eyes are far-sighted with near-sighted astimatism...which makes it nearly impossible for her eyes to focus on print. Glasses have not helped her in school, though they are probably helping her focus better.

 

Yes, vision therapy will go a lot farther for helping her than just the glasses I think.

 

On top of it, she struggles with directionality, spatial skills, math reasoning, logic, patterning, number sense (she really has no clue how numbers relate to each other, etc. 13 is 30 or 31, 12 is 20. She does not grasp the idea of beginning, middle, end as it relates to a line of objects. This makes it difficult for her to spell words, as she has no concept of where to put the tiles (though she pulls the correct sounds down).

 

Directionality, spatial skills etc... can all relate to vision processing issues as well (or could be dyslexia, or both).

 

One thing that can help is to show her an object like a doll, stuffed animal, or car. Ask her what it is. Turn it upside down and ask again. Backwards and ask again etc...

 

Almost everything in our lives is the same thing forwards, backwards, upside down etc...

 

Letters, numbers, and words are the exceptions. An upside down m is a w. map backwards is pam. 31 backwards is 13, and so on. People who can see things 3-dimmensionally in their minds and turn them around and see the different sides have a great talent--but it is also a hindrance to reading and math. Pointing out concretely that numbers, letters, and words do not work the same way that every other object in our lives does, can help students begin to see why directionality matters. If she struggles with letter reversals (horizontal or vertical), cut out some 3-d letters and show her the difference. Play with the tiles and show the difference with words and why we always have to start on the left, or we end up with the wrong word (or a nonsense word!).

 

I would draw an arrow on your board somewhere--you could even draw it as a line for her to put the letters on. Mark the starting point of each word. In our language, words always start on the left and go to the right. Every single time. Putting the arrow on the board will help her with placing the tiles correctly.

 

I've also found arrows helpful in math. If she subtracts upside down, use a down arrow showing the way we work. If she reads numbers backwards (13 as 31) put horizontal arrows as reminders.

 

My kids did the twelve/twenty thing too. That one I think is a matter of ascribing the wrong meaning to the wrong number. They are such similar words, that they get confused. Plus these words don't follow the pattern that some others do--4 becomes 40 but 3 doesn't become three-ty, or two, two-ty. Twelve would be ten-ty-two if we followed the pattern--tenty sounds an awful lot like twenty--you can begin to see how a child can mix these up. Some of these will clear up with time, work on mastering one of the numbers at a time.

 

My husband is severely dyslexic...I'm almost positive she is too...but there is one aspect of her development that does NOT fit the dyslexia picture...that she was an early phonics learner...she picked up on the letter names and their sounds very easily...and she learned how to blend them easily and early. Her phonemic awareness skills are solid. This does not fit dyslexics...which makes me wonder...

 

There is more than one type of dyslexia. Have you looked at dyseidetic dyslexia? Dysphonetic dyslexia is the type where students have more trouble with phonics and sounding out, and you generally hear more about that type. Dyseidetic is different. Here's a link with symptoms of dyseidetic dyslexia. Leaving letters out, reverals, having trouble reading words that are not easy to sound out etc... yet having good strong phonemic awareness skills can all be a part of this.

 

If she struggles with reversals, I have some exercises that can help with that.

At any rate...thank you for your help and information and kind words regarding my husband...he's actually out of work because of a broken leg and will definitely have a position to return to. We just need to get him healed up. We're going on 4 months now...which has deflated all of our plans for the year. But it's ok...God is in control and has plans for this. It's not what we wanted, but what He wanted and knew we needed. :-)

 

Now that you say that, I remember reading about this before. Praying he heals up soon, I know it's hard when God turns everything upside down. But we cling more to him then.

 

Merry :-)

[sweetpea3829]

Merry, it's interesting that you posted this, regarding dyseidetic dyslexia. When DH was formally diagnosed (about four years ago, I think), his dyslexia diagnosis was surprising to me. I thought, dyslexia=seeing letters backwards, and he told me he didn't see letters backwards.

 

His neuropsych classified him as a dyseidetic dyslexic. In my readings, I can't say I really had a good grasp of just what that meant. I actually have come across the link you've posted, in previous research. Some of the characteristics fit him, some don't.

 

For one thing, I can tell you assuredly that he does NOT have good phonemic awareness skills. He does not hear all of the sounds of oral language. Or he does not auditorally discriminate those sounds. His hearing is fine, but his brain does not process it. Which is why, when he spells "with" he spells it "would." Every time. That's how his brain hears it. Combine that issue with the fact that his brain also does not process the visual symbol correctly, and he cannot "see" that the word is written incorrectly. I don't think he's just dyseidetic dyslexic, I think he's actually both.

 

His reading is "ok." He thinks he reads fine, but when he reads outloud, he is slower than you would expect. He falters a bit and he often makes mistakes. I don't know how his reading is when he's reading to himself. He does seem to have difficulty sounding out some words and, like our daughter, he quite often will stumble over an unfamiliar word and call it something that begins with the same letter or sounds but isn't actually the correct word.

 

I would be very interested in having him have a developmental vision assessment done. I would bet my dollars to donuts that he probably has some kind of visual processing issue, despite having better than 20/20 vision.

 

DD, on the other hand, shares some of the same characteristics, but some marked differences. Just going through the list of expected symptoms, she does confuse similar letters (p, d, etc) but actually, she's pretty good about NOT confusing them.

 

So far, she is not confusing words that can be reversed like saw and was. She USUALLY gets the first letter/sound correct...it's the rest of the word that she struggles with. Incidentally, and I think this is important, she reads individual words correctly, pretty consistently. It's when you put the words together, in a sentence, that she starts getting all kinds of confused. I should add, there is MINOR confusion for her when the words she is reading are in a row. HOP has individual words to be read, in a row. This gives her minor difficulties, particularly if she's trying to rush through.

 

She has fantastic sight vocabulary. She has had no difficulties learning any of the sight words. She confuses what and want occasionally, but in isolation, she recognizes that the word is not correct.

 

Losing her place...she does this occassionally, but I wouldn't say she does it to an extent that would be a red flag. Not at this point in her chronological development. To me, the frequence with which she loses her place is probably more of a yellow flag, kwim? She does it only sometimes.

 

She definitely omits letters and words that she does not visually note. All the time. Especially "a" and "the." And quite often, she will read "a" as "the" and vice versa.

 

She rarely misses the first letter of a word. In fact, probably never. It's the rest of the letters that she misses...lol.

 

She has not had difficulty learning irregular sight words.

 

I'm not sure how she does with rapid retrieval. If they're talking about how quickly she can blow through a stack of flashcards...she does it just fine with no difficulties and no delays.

 

There are definitely a lot of insertions, ommissions, and substitutions, especially if the sentence she is reading has an unfamiliar word.

 

She does not have left-hemisphere strengths, that I have seen and noted. She has many weaknesses in this regard. Analytical and sequential thinking are very challenging for her.

 

She absolutely has difficulty recalling the shape of written letters. Even now, after writing her name since the age of 3, she often forgets how to form the e's and s' in her name (Genesis). She is getting better with this, as long as we practice every day, or at most, every other day. If I were to take a week off from practicing handwriting, she would likely lose most of the gains she has made, if not all of them.

 

So far, her spelling is minimal, as I've not asked her to do much in the way of writing. As I mentioned, she pulls all of the correct sounds, but often puts them in the wrong order. But because she doesn't really "get" sequential order, and the concept of beginning, middle and end, she doesn't understand WHY the word is spelled incorrectly. To her, the correct sounds are there, so what's the big deal?

 

I think one of the big keys I need to look at with her is really grasping this concept of sequencing objects. I think once she really grasps this, and understands it, I think a lot of other issues will be unlocked for her. Her eye doctor said we should start working on left, center, right. She does get the concept of left and right as it relates to her own body so it's a start. LOL, I think I'm going to have to line up her three brothers with hanging signs that say, "Beginning," "middle," and "end."

 

Anyways! Now that I've rambled...I've mentioned before that I personally believe we are only scratching the surface of what dyslexia and it's related LDs truly are, how they relate, causes, etc. I think there's SO much more to uncover.

 

Don't get me started on DS5 who does not struggle with academics in any way, but shows some of the "positive" aspects of dyslexia. I could be here all night!

[MerryAtHope]

Incidentally, and I think this is important, she reads individual words correctly, pretty consistently. It's when you put the words together, in a sentence, that she starts getting all kinds of confused.

 

Boy, this part sure does sound like a visual tracking issue. For some, letters move or become wavy but that never happened for my son. For him what happened is that the spaces between words disappeared. Yeah, that would make reading pretty challenging!

 

Very interesting about your dh. Was he ever tested for anything else? Sounds like the potential exists for multiple things to be going on, for him and for your daughter.

 

Anyways! Now that I've rambled...I've mentioned before that I personally believe we are only scratching the surface of what dyslexia and it's related LDs truly are, how they relate, causes, etc. I think there's SO much more to uncover.

 

 

I agree. In some ways it's a really fascinating field. Incredibly frustrating when you are trying to help a child who really is giving his or her all though, and overwhelmingly frustrating for the child--and yet fascinating when you discover something new about how he or she learns.

[sweetpea3829]

Yeah, it really is fascinating. I've learned a lot since DH's diagnosis four years ago. Incidentally, I'd love to share...DH was really your classic dyslexic...hated school, had tummy aches when it was his time to read outloud in front of the class, was skipped over by the teacher in group reading because he struggled to read, etc. He was a 9th grade dropout. In 9th grade, he found that he really loved the drafting class and would stay all day in the drafting classroom. The school insisted he take his other classes, so he just dropped out.

 

Well after his diagnosis, he FINALLY was able to achieve his high school diploma through a program called the National External Diploma Program. It took him a long time, and he had about a year of tutoring before that, but he did it.

 

Right now, G is in the "I give up and I hate school" phase. We've backed off quite a bit...and sometimes I think maybe I should unschool her (but I'm not organized enough for that). She'll get there.

[MerryAtHope]

Yeah, it really is fascinating. I've learned a lot since DH's diagnosis four years ago. Incidentally, I'd love to share...DH was really your classic dyslexic...hated school, had tummy aches when it was his time to read outloud in front of the class, was skipped over by the teacher in group reading because he struggled to read, etc. He was a 9th grade dropout. In 9th grade, he found that he really loved the drafting class and would stay all day in the drafting classroom. The school insisted he take his other classes, so he just dropped out.

 

Well after his diagnosis, he FINALLY was able to achieve his high school diploma through a program called the National External Diploma Program. It took him a long time, and he had about a year of tutoring before that, but he did it.

 

What a great achievement, congratulations!

 

My son hated school at your daughter's age (and there are always aspects he doesn't love even now, but he can say things like, "it's not so bad anymore," or, "I don't hate it like I used to," which is progress!). I've never unschooled but I do dialogue extensively with my kids and find out what they are interested in, what they would like to learn more about, and I provide as many opportunities in what they are interested in as possible.

[LittleIzumi]

 

There is more than one type of dyslexia. Have you looked at dyseidetic dyslexia? Dysphonetic dyslexia is the type where students have more trouble with phonics and sounding out, and you generally hear more about that type. Dyseidetic is different. Here's a link with symptoms of dyseidetic dyslexia. Leaving letters out, reverals, having trouble reading words that are not easy to sound out etc... yet having good strong phonemic awareness skills can all be a part of this.

 

If she struggles with reversals, I have some exercises that can help with that.

 

 

Wow. That link sounds EXACTLY like dd. :001_huh:

 

 

His reading is "ok." He thinks he reads fine, but when he reads outloud, he is slower than you would expect. He falters a bit and he often makes mistakes. I don't know how his reading is when he's reading to himself. He does seem to have difficulty sounding out some words and, like our daughter, he quite often will stumble over an unfamiliar word and call it something that begins with the same letter or sounds but isn't actually the correct word.

 

I would be very interested in having him have a developmental vision assessment done. I would bet my dollars to donuts that he probably has some kind of visual processing issue, despite having better than 20/20 vision.

 

DD, on the other hand, shares some of the same characteristics, but some marked differences. Just going through the list of expected symptoms, she does confuse similar letters (p, d, etc) but actually, she's pretty good about NOT confusing them.

 

So far, she is not confusing words that can be reversed like saw and was. She USUALLY gets the first letter/sound correct...it's the rest of the word that she struggles with. Incidentally, and I think this is important, she reads individual words correctly, pretty consistently. It's when you put the words together, in a sentence, that she starts getting all kinds of confused.

 

This also sounds EXACTLY like dd--and she was indeed in vision therapy for this and benefited GREATLY. She was terrified of reading sentences or book pages before vision therapy. It's helped so much.

[sweetpea3829]

Wow. That link sounds EXACTLY like dd. :001_huh:

 

 

 

This also sounds EXACTLY like dd--and she was indeed in vision therapy for this and benefited GREATLY. She was terrified of reading sentences or book pages before vision therapy. It's helped so much.

 

I'm just curious...did your DD also struggle with similar math issues? And did vision therapy help with that?

 

And do you happen to know if she also had receptive language issues? I'm very curious if there's some kind of link with the receptive language piece.

 

I can't, for the life of me, see how the receptive piece really fits in to all of this. Other than that perhaps, it's the root cause of everything. But somehow, I doubt that.

[MerryAtHope]

I'm just curious...did your DD also struggle with similar math issues? And did vision therapy help with that?

 

And do you happen to know if she also had receptive language issues? I'm very curious if there's some kind of link with the receptive language piece.

 

I can't, for the life of me, see how the receptive piece really fits in to all of this. Other than that perhaps, it's the root cause of everything. But somehow, I doubt that.

 

I think the receptive language issue is something different. Vision Therapy helped with both reading and math for my son, but he never had an issue specifically with receptive language.

 

My dd has some auditory processing issues (as do I), and some working memory issues. For me, sometimes when people talk it's as if there are no spaces between the words. I have to wait to see if the sounds separate into words and then I can discern what was said. Sometimes I hear things completely wrong though, and have to ask for someone to repeat what they said.

 

In her case, the auditory issues rarely affected phonemic awareness, except as it related to similar sounds (such as /m/ vs. /n/). She would remember syllables in the wrong order though.

 

My son had different issues--at age 6 & 7 if you asked him to say the sounds he heard in the word "frog" (said out loud to him), he would only say /f/ /o/ /g/ and leave out the /r/ sound.

 

Anyway...if I had to guess, I'd say there's more than one thing going on with your dd, which is fairly common. If you're having a neuro-psych eval done, hopefully they'll be able to discern what's what. A book that I found helpful for introducing many different types of learning disabilities is The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide (MD's). Sometimes it's not the "one thing" that's going on that everything fits with, but several things, and then how those things work together and interrelate. Two things interrelating can look like a third thing that a person may not even have. It can take some investigating to tease it all out. I liked that this book gave a couple of real life examples of each condition, descriptions, and then also things you can do that can help. You'll probably even discover that you're already doing some of the right things--but you'll learn more about why they help and how you can get more mileage out of them.

 

Merry :-)