Some colleges don't look at Sat writing. Does anyone know why?

[LNC]

Easy? Essay score too subjective?

Edited April 25, 2012 by LNC

[In The Great White North]

Not enough data showing a correlation between the scores on the essay and performance in college.

 

Inconsistent scores (same person's scores varying more than the other sections of the test)

[Mom22ns]

They prefer to look at writing samples from their own required essays.

[lllll]

...

[Susan C.]

Ds's and Dd's (same college) did. Got them out of the English placement test and the grammar lab that is w/Eng. 101.

[Janice in NJ]

I suspect many colleges ignore it because it is a poor predictor of success. That test does little to emulate the skills needed to successfully handle college-level writing assignments.

 

Learning to generate a thesis? Yes. But the prompt does most of the the work for you. Learning to generate a real thesis out of thin air for a history, literature, or psychology paper? A bit tougher.

 

Learning to argue your position? Yes. But real rhetoric is about nuance. Hard to do it well in 22 minutes or less.

 

Learning to research and properly integrate what you have learned about the topic into your own argument? No. None of that.

 

Honestly? I think the test does a great job of demonstrating that kids have learned how to write a high school level, 5-paragraph essay on the fly - using only what they already have floating around in their heads. Too bad that skill doesn't coordinate well with the writing skills needed in college.

 

On dd's last attempt at the SAT, she didn't finish the sentence she was working on 1/2 way down the second page. So there's one strike against her: she stopped mid-sentence. And there's another strike: she didn't fill the two pages. She can't write fast; she types fast, but doesn't generally write fast. "Mom, when I write fast, I write smaller. Grr...."

 

And she didn't finish her argument, so she lost points because she didn't get the chance to wrap things up. The format demands that you tie everything together at the end and clearly restate your position. You can see where she is headed as the paragraphs progress, but of course you get no credit for that. You only get credit for stating the obvious.

 

But the good thing? She was writing a very nice paper. Good sentences. Mature tone. Great vocabulary. Good devices. She won't be ashamed to have the admission folks read it; they might even enjoy it. :001_smile: The colleges she is applying to all use the essay to check to see that her admissions essay is hers. So she's good there; her voice was coming through in her essay. She also doesn't need the score for placement; she's already passed out of Comp I.

 

So no worries.

 

She's taking the SAT again in May. I honestly don't know how to advise her about the essay. It doesn't matter. She doesn't need the score. Not one school we are looking at uses it for admissions or scholarship. Maybe she can write a poem or something.

 

Seems like an anti-climactic way to begin that test for what I certainly hope will be the last time. We think her CR+M numbers are good enough for admission to the schools she is looking at; now she's looking to access the next level of scholarship $$.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

Editing: I think the grammar and usage sections are fine. IMO the essay has little predictive value. Even the short answer questions don't really verify that the child can write. Can the kid take eight thoughts and correctly subordinate them into a sentence? Can he do it with flair? Umm. Maybe. Can you be sure that you have found that kid when you have found the kid who can point out winners in a line up? Just because you can point to the chair that looks the most like a chair doesn't mean that you can build one - or that you even know for sure why the chair works. :001_smile:

 

If you know the schools you are looking at will use the score, scrap your style and learn to ace the test to get the best score you can get. If you know the schools you are looking at will NOT use the score, write with your best style. Use your voice. That way when you spend umpteen hours to write a slammin' admissions essay, the folks who read it might actually believe that it's your own work. :001_smile:

 

Peace - Janice

Edited April 25, 2012 by Janice in NJ

[Laura in CA]

Because, as PPs have said, it has limitations.

 

It was added mostly because the University of California system threatened to drop the SAT. I guess the ACT has had their optional writing section since I don't know when.

 

Indeed, in 2001 the University of California threatened to drop the SAT unless a writing section was added, saying that fewer freshmen were prepared for the more intense writing requirements of college.

 

(from this article. So blame the UCs!)

 

That said, it's easy to game the SAT essay, as shown in the classic experiment by the MIT prof: Criticism about the essay has been building for more than a year since an MIT professor’s experiment indicated that students could get high scores simply by writing longer and throwing in big words.

 

"Many Four-Year Institutions Ignore SAT Essay Scores"

 

On the other hand, I've heard (on this board?) of some colleges asking College Board for a scan of the students' essays, because it's their only chance to see how a student writes without tweaking by parents, friends, teachers, and hired consultants. From this article:

 

Harvard Director of Admissions Marlyn McGrath-Lewis said colleges usually have several other writing samples from candidates, including the application essay.

 

“We look at it along with everything else available to us because we don’t make admissions decisions by any formula,” she said. “We’re trying to form a holistic sense of the applicant, and anything that’s going to help us we’ll look at. The writing score was not decisive in any case that I can recall.”

 

McGrath-Lewis said it can often be helpful to have the SAT writing sample because other writing samples, like the application essay, may have benefited from the help of a parent or tutor. But the writing test is also “highly coachable” because of its simple grading standards, she said.

 

Last year my son took a live one-day class with Andrew Pudewa of IEW about writing the college essay -- he (my son) didn't really want to go, but of course ended up loving the class, because Mr Pudewa is funny and clear. I figured it would be a good skill for my son to have -- being able to produce a somewhat-coherent essay in a short amount of time. That could be useful on short-answer questions on college exams (I had some even in biology classes, for example!) or if he's simply pressed for time on a regular essay. Not that he'll ever get behind in his schoolwork in college ... :lol:

 

Anyway, that's my philosophy -- spend a day or two learning how to do the essay, and then not worry about it.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Laura in CA
bad link

[dirty ethel rackham]

It appears that, by ignoring the writing section of the test, those colleges don't understand the changes made to the SAT. The writing section is not just about the essay. From what I understand, the old Verbal section was split into Critical Reading and Writing. Critical Reading tests the ability to read critically, make inferences, deductions, get the main idea, etc. Writing tests a whole lot more than just the essay. The essay makes up only 30% of the Writing score. The bulk of the writing section is grammar, usage, vocabulary and other mechanics, areas that used to be in the Verbal section. One could blow the essay and still score pretty well on the Writing section - my son did. Once he got only 3s on his essay and got a 740 on the Writing section as a whole.

[Laura in CA]

Excellent point, Ellen. Both of my sons do very well on the SAT Writing's grammar portion but dislike actual essay writing, especially under such contrived conditions.

 

That is one reason I'm starting to like the ACT - one of my sons took the ACT without writing and did much better than he did on the SAT. His ACT 'reading' score was just OK, but his ACT 'English' score was fairly good. I *think* if he had done the ACT essay, his essay score would have been combined with his 'English' score ...

[Laura in CA]

It appears that, by ignoring the writing section of the test, those colleges don't understand the changes made to the SAT. The writing section is not just about the essay.

 

I just ran across this UVa admissions blog post that indicates that some colleges, at least, do "get it":

 

As for the essay scores, there isn't enough deviation in the scores to use them all that much. The SAT essay is read by two readers who each award up to six points. Now, the three digit writing section score is of interest ... just as we used to like to see the old SAT II in Writing in addition to the old, two section SAT.

 

In a nutshell, we're interested in the essays you provided us on your application. We aren't interested in looking up the scan of the SAT essay.

 

OK, I think maybe I misread that -- at first I thought it meant they look at the grammar subscore for the writing part. Now I think it means they do look at the 3-digit writing score, but realize that the essay is dashed off in 30 minutes and isn't necessarily indicative of the student's writing ability.

[Barb_]

Easy? Essay score too subjective?

 

Would Shakespeare get into Swathmore?

 

Excerpt:

 

All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages. At first the infant, mewling and puking in the nurse's arms. And then the whining schoolboy with his satchel and shining morning face, creeping like snail unwillingly to school. And then the lover, sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier, full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard, jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel, seeking the bubble reputation even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice, in fair round belly with good capon lined, with eyes severe and beard of formal cut, full of wise saws and modern instances; and so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon, with spectacles on nose and pouch on side; his youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide for his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice, turning again towards childish treble, pipes and whistles in his sound. Last scene of all, that ends this strange eventful history, is second childishness and mere oblivion, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

 

Reader's evaluation: This essay is poorly organized, with only one paragraph (though, to Mr. Shakespeare's credit, the topic sentence does speak to what the rest of the sentences in his one paragraph are about). It is riddled with errors in syntax, incomplete sentences being the most noticeable problem. Although his supporting sentences are vivid in their description, they are vague and general, not true examples. And he unfortunately spells "honor" with the extraneous "u." Grade: 2 out of 6

Edited April 26, 2012 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[creekland]

We were told short timed essays were not indicative of a student's ability to write a good essay - hence - many colleges do not care what score a student gets (SAT or ACT essay). I suspect that might have limits, but I don't honestly know that.

[JanetC]

I don't know if this has been passed around here, but content does not matter at all on the SAT, just length and structure. Each grader gets about 90 seconds per essay.

In the 17th century a young man by the name of Martin Luther King Jr., a young pastor from Cincinnati, took his cues from the venerable Abraham James Lincoln, a seasoned lawyer from Ontario.

 

http://www.applerouth.com/blog/2009/06/01/in-praise-of-folly-writing-the-sat-essay/

[Guest kathi137]

I spoke to an admissions counselor who told me that they "look" at the scores, but do not use them to determine admission. If the scores are low, they may ask for additional information/samples from a homeschooler. They are in the process of evaluating whether to add the test results.

[Janice in NJ]

Is this for real? Did this really happen or is this legend?

 

Because if this is real, it forebodes a tightening in my knicker's knot - something I'm just not in the mood for right now.

 

No wonder kids without high-priced tutors don't stand a chance; they think they're supposed to write an essay.

 

Thoroughly disgusted,

Janice

[LNC]

This thread is a huge bummer! I won't show my daughter. :001_smile:

 

She took the SAT for the first time as a 7th grader with Duke Tip - scored extremely well in writing. A 10 on the essay and I don't think she missed any multiple choice. She scored in a top percentile for high school seniors... She didn't do nearly so well in reading, and math was terrible, but she hasn't had algebra 1 yet so that should come up easily...

Edited April 27, 2012 by LNC

[dirty ethel rackham]

Just because some schools don't look at the writing section (under the mistaken impression that it is only about writing an essay in under 30 minutes about a topic that may or may not have anything relatable to that student) doesn't mean that all of them ignore it. The schools my son applied to were interested in the score, but not necessarily the essay. They were VERY interested in the application essay.