Talk to me about history retention for logic stage Ancients!

[LNC]

Our spines are

Famous Men Greece and Rome - both children

Golden Days of Greece, Olivia Coolidge and The Romans, Alfred Duggan - 5th grade son

Dorothy Mills Book of the Ancient World, Greeks, Romans - 7th grade daughter

 

We use TQ to guide us and our books lists of biographies and historical fiction. It is a LOT of reading. But I'm afraid my 5th grader isn't retaining. He begs for a simple textbook and workbook - like Latin. History isn't Latin!

 

We notebook based on the WTM methods, but I think if I used the TQ notebooking pages it would help. Every topic we cover would have a biography summary or an outline. They would remember what we studies by just flipping through their notebooks.

 

We didn't buy the workbooks for Memoria Press Famous Men bc I didn't want to get bogged down with assignments. But, now when I ask them to remember who Draco or Solon are they yell Sparta or Athens. When I ask if they remember who Coriolonus was - they blank. They are comptelely bogged down on Roman monarchs and consuls. Of course they know a lot about the big names like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar. Is this good enough? Am I being a perfectionist?

 

The will take AP European Lit and APUSH in high school - so they will cover Western Civ again...

Edited April 11, 2012 by LNC

[Halcyon]

We will be doing Ancients again next year, and I can absolutely see retnetion being an issue here, too, so I am trying to prepapre for it. what I have planned so far:

 

1) Human Odyssey. Read section, mark timeline, incorporate date/figure/battle something into memory work. write narration each week.

2) use videos. Thses have really helped my child retain this year, when used after reading the material.

3) lapbooks or notebooking. It really is tiring to do these but the retntion whe we do use them is great.

4) weekly or semi weekly quizzes. We do this now, and it has really helped. I leave the questions fairly opem-ended so i can really gauge his understanding.

5) lots of living books, discussion.....

 

Good luck. Logic is where i am beginning to think retention is key, so ,aking it fun and memorable and also really continuing with memory work will, i think, be key.

[LNC]

We will be doing Ancients again next year, and I can absolutely see retnetion being an issue here, too, so I am trying to prepapre for it. what I have planned so far:

 

1) Human Odyssey. Read section, mark timeline, incorporate date/figure/battle something into memory work. write narration each week.

2) use videos. Thses have really helped my child retain this year, when used after reading the material.

3) lapbooks or notebooking. It really is tiring to do these but the retntion whe we do use them is great.

4) weekly or semi weekly quizzes. We do this now, and it has really helped. I leave the questions fairly opem-ended so i can really gauge his understanding.

5) lots of living books, discussion.....

 

Good luck. Logic is where i am beginning to think retention is key, so ,aking it fun and memorable and also really continuing with memory work will, i think, be key.

I agree with your plan, but it hasn't worked out quite that way this year. With all the planning effort I put into it - many people and events have gone in one ear and out the other. They have a MAJOR flow, it is the more minor details that are seriously lacking. I think that it is ancient history is part of it.

Edited April 11, 2012 by LNC

[LNC]

I just purchases the new Memoria Press Greek Myths and Famous Men of Greece and Rome Flashcards.

http://www.memoriapress.com/

 

I would really appreciate hearing from anyone else in the logic stage Ancients who had this problem and how they fixed it! Thanks!!

Edited April 11, 2012 by LNC

[EKS]

Here's what I did. I read K12's Human Odyssey aloud as a spine. The we read a lot of supplemental books (historical fiction, period literature, biographies, etc). Every so often I assigned written work, usually about a big idea or event or person we had studies over a period of days or weeks. I did not have him do the outlining thing.

 

He is now in a high school history class at a selective private school and he knows *way* more history than anyone else in his class. So I guess my relaxed approach worked for him.

[Paintedlady]

Well I'm not sure I've fixed the problem, but I think one of the keys to retention is to review regularly.

 

We're using Mystery of History ancients this year and we use the pre-tests (kind of a warm up really), and the quizzes/tests that are scheduled every week after 3 lessons. These are always open note tests, and the goal for taking them is review & retention.

 

We also keep a wall and book timeline. I use one of those 3-fold foam poster boards, like you'd use in a presentation, for each year of history. So at the end of the 4 year cycle we'll have 4 of those. The timeline book will all four years of timelines in it when we're done so it's a more comprehensive tool, keeping the entire timeline in one place.

 

We also make a ring of notecards for review. Again, every 3 lessons we sit down together and go over what we've learned. I ask the kids what they remember and help prompt them if they've forgotten details. They can also use the note cards on the ring for tests. I plan to use the ring of note cards for review over the summer and into the coming years.

 

I also like the idea of using the occasional movie or documentary as an add-on, especially if you've got a very visual learner. Hth!

[2_girls_mommy]

My oldest won't be in logic ancients until next year, but something you said stuck out to me. You said you are doing the WTM notebooking thing, but that you were considering switching to your TQ notebooking pages so that every subject would get a summary or outline.

 

But isn't that what WTM notebooking is? I have in mind that we will be outlining every section we read from the KHE or from every topic we read about instead in other books and doing the occasional summary from extra reading and biographies. So what notebooking have you done regularly that isn't getting retained? This may help give me ideas for next year as we start out.. Are the TQ outlines somehow different than outlining the WTM way?

 

If it is just that the regular WTM outlining isn't getting done, then I would switch to your TQ pages for outlining to have that written work to review in the notebook for every chapter.

[yvonne]

We'll be doing logic stage ancients next year, but my bonus 6th grader did VP's History Transitions course this year and some of our dictations have been on ancient history so we touched on some bits. One thing that really stuck with my boys was the Rufus Fears Great Romans and Great Greeks Teaching Co lectures. Fears is a good storyteller. My kids enjoyed listening to his stories about Greeks and Romans & I think hearing such interesting bits about these people is what made them stick in my children's minds. We'll listen again as we hit those topics next year.

 

Just one small thing that helped a little for us!

 

ETA: You might want to prelisten to the lectures. There were a couple of sections of the Famous Greeks & Famous Romans that I skipped with my kids.

[Susie in CA]

I may be the only one with this opinion, but I'll answer this question: Am I too perfectionistic?

 

I would say that, yes, you may be. My kids do not remember every person or event we read or talk about. Heck, I don't remember everything either. However, I know that with each 4-year rotation, with each year, even with each day we study history they remember more. We read, talk, laugh, repeat. Often, in conversation, I find that they don't remember exactly, but because we talk we review. Each time we talk, discuss, review they remember a bit more. To me this is way more beneficial and fun in the long-run then trying to write about every person we encounter. Remember, there is so much to cover. We will never cover all of it. What I shoot for is a mental timeline, a mental map, and the ability to communicate when which event took place involving whichever person. Sometimes we have to look up more information and that's okay.

 

Hope this helps.

[LNC]

My oldest won't be in logic ancients until next year, but something you said stuck out to me. You said you are doing the WTM notebooking thing, but that you were considering switching to your TQ notebooking pages so that every subject would get a summary or outline.

 

But isn't that what WTM notebooking is? I have in mind that we will be outlining every section we read from the KHE or from every topic we read about instead in other books and doing the occasional summary from extra reading and biographies. So what notebooking have you done regularly that isn't getting retained? This may help give me ideas for next year as we start out.. Are the TQ outlines somehow different than outlining the WTM way?

 

If it is just that the regular WTM outlining isn't getting done, then I would switch to your TQ pages for outlining to have that written work to review in the notebook for every chapter.

We outline a section of our reading per WTM logic stage recs. It is excellent outlining practice, but we aren't covering the entire topic. So, I think they would retain more if we included summaries of the TQ notebooking topics. They can outline still - but I have to have the summaries and biography sketches for retention...

[LNC]

I may be the only one with this opinion, but I'll answer this question: Am I too perfectionistic?

 

I would say that, yes, you may be. My kids do not remember every person or event we read or talk about. Heck, I don't remember everything either. However, I know that with each 4-year rotation, with each year, even with each day we study history they remember more. We read, talk, laugh, repeat. Often, in conversation, I find that they don't remember exactly, but because we talk we review. Each time we talk, discuss, review they remember a bit more. To me this is way more beneficial and fun in the long-run then trying to write about every person we encounter. Remember, there is so much to cover. We will never cover all of it. What I shoot for is a mental timeline, a mental map, and the ability to communicate when which event took place involving whichever person. Sometimes we have to look up more information and that's okay.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, that is helpful! I appreciate everyone's else's comments too. I would still love to hear from anyone who has wrestled with this.

[Paintedlady]

I may be the only one with this opinion, but I'll answer this question: Am I too perfectionistic?

 

I would say that, yes, you may be. My kids do not remember every person or event we read or talk about. Heck, I don't remember everything either. However, I know that with each 4-year rotation, with each year, even with each day we study history they remember more. We read, talk, laugh, repeat. Often, in conversation, I find that they don't remember exactly, but because we talk we review. Each time we talk, discuss, review they remember a bit more. To me this is way more beneficial and fun in the long-run then trying to write about every person we encounter. Remember, there is so much to cover. We will never cover all of it. What I shoot for is a mental timeline, a mental map, and the ability to communicate when which event took place involving whichever person. Sometimes we have to look up more information and that's okay.

 

Hope this helps.

 

:iagree: Definitely don't remember every person or detail either. I'm shooting for general recognition of time and place and where people fit into the big picture. Reviewing in different ways seems to spark that aha! moment where we all remember having heard it before and hopefully cements the information just a little bit more in our brains. I consider myself a history student right alongside them btw, and I certainly don't remember everything either.

[ChrissySC]

Hear it, see it, write it.

 

I work off of these three. I read aloud or have them read aloud. I find audio books as much as possible too. We outline or narrate. We read literature based on the events or people. I require lots of reading - including much historical fiction. I challenge her to find the difference in her book with what actually happened.

 

We try and incorporate as many hands-on activities too - even if it is just coloring in a Dover book or making a collage.

 

We do lots of eyewitness copywork and timeline marking.