I don't know how to get my dd to learn!

[Amethyst]

You'd think that after homeschooling for 13 years, I'd have the hang of this. I don't! I just flipped out at my dd15 today. My boys are very intelligent and that made homeschooling them (comparatively) easy. But my dd just doesn't seem to retain anything. We can see that she doesn't seem to have any aptitude for math. But sometimes it just seems like laziness or lack of interest or lack of motivation. Why should she work harder? What is her motivation to get good grades at home? What is her motivation to not get poor grades? (Today after the flip out, I did take her cell phone away indefinitely, but generally I'm not a punisher for bad grades.)

 

My dh in his wisdom, tried to talk some sense into me. Rather than just being angry at her, he said we need to figure out how she learns. Maybe she's hands-on (I'm not!). Maybe she's kinesthetic. We can tell that compared to my boys she seems to be very intelligent in the interpersonal skill area, but I'm not sure how that helps somebody who can't remember (at age 15!!!) that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. He said all children have a desire to learn. Why doesn't she? So, I asked her how she learned best. And her immediate response was that she learns visually. Just reading something doesnt' help (which is how I learn best and how I mostly teach).

 

So, what does that mean for a 15 year old? I don't know where to go with that. Videos? Sure, she likes to watch them, but I'm not sure how much she actually retains. I was happy a few months ago when she said that she learned more from watching the musical 1776 than from all the books we'd read. But just a couple weeks ago, when the subject of Richard Henry Lee came up at dinnertime, she remembered the song, but couldn't remember the significance. So, does anyone have any suggestions for a visual (or interpersonal) learner?

[klmama]

A former student of mine had ADHD and struggled to get information into long-term memory. His mother told me that every night she had to help him reenact the entire history lesson read in school that day in order for him to remember it - otherwise he couldn't picture it in his mind. She had him watch movies about the material, if possible, as that helped, too, but the reenacting was what cemented the info.

[MomatHWTK]

Notebooking or lapbooking?

 

I have a little artist who just wants to get through academics as quickly as possible so she can draw.

 

In the long run, if one of my children cannot learn a subject, then my next best option is to teach them how to find what they don't know. Actually, I will teach all my children this anyway. But, especially if retention is a problem, then research and problem solving skills become paramount.

[Susan C.]

15 was hard for dd and me, lots of attitude. It got better. I did sit down with her, went over each subject, and listened to her frustrations. Then I got what she said she needed. 15 seemed a little too young for independent learning..... so I made sure she had help, either dvds, or a text that had everything she needed.

[Nan in Mass]

15 was a hard age for homeschooling for us. We just sort of plugged along and then things got better. It is hard to tell not trying from not able. We worked on skills rather than content, especially study skills and writing, with a view to taking community college classes the next year. Content didn't seem to stick at that age, sigh. And I found things they were willing to work at and I set them up to work on them independently. I think part of the problem, in our case, was motivation, and the rest was a gap between their academic abilities and where they were intellectually. Intellectually, they were ready for more, but their academic skills weren't good enough for them to work at a higher level. It was very frustrating. In retrospect, I'm not sure there was really anything we could do about it except wait that period out while focusing on what they could do. Sorry. That isn't very helpful, probably. I would beware leaving her alone with her schoolwork at this stage, no matter how much she says she learns better that way. Mine wanted to work by themselves in everything, but were only able to do it for some things. The rest, I had to teach. Videos and books didn't really work. I worried about that until I realized that I had a teacher for almost everything, even in college.

 

Nan

[Amethyst]

His mother told me that every night she had to help him reenact the entire history lesson read in school that day in order for him to remember it - otherwise he couldn't picture it in his mind. She had him watch movies about the material, if possible, as that helped, too, but the reenacting was what cemented the info.

 

This is interesting. I could see it working for some things. Especially history. And especially if she does it with her younger sister. Thanks.

 

Notebooking or lapbooking?

 

In the long run, if one of my children cannot learn a subject, then my next best option is to teach them how to find what they don't know. Actually, I will teach all my children this anyway. But, especially if retention is a problem, then research and problem solving skills become paramount.

Ugh. Okay. You're right. I know you are. It makes sense to make her research things herself. I'll try. So, let's say we're doing Louisiana Purchase. I tell her to research it? Write a paper? Write a paragraph and put it in a lapbook? It's so broad. Does she break it down into more manageable chunks, or do I do that for her? I've done some Dinah Zike stuff, but not a lot. Is that the same as lapbooking?

 

15 was hard for dd and me, lots of attitude. It got better. I did sit down with her, went over each subject, and listened to her frustrations. Then I got what she said she needed. 15 seemed a little too young for independent learning..... so I made sure she had help, either dvds, or a text that had everything she needed.

 

She doesn't do much independent learning. I did sit down with her last summer and ask what works for her. She said she prefers textbooks for science. So that's what we're doing. But I read it with her. She's not independent. She begged to stop Teaching Textbooks, so mid-year we switched to Key to Algebra. We started at the beginning with Key To, and we're still not at the point we were at with TT. I'd like to be further along, but I know it's more important that she understand it and not just rush through the program. History she's just not retaining. We used History of US with both boys so that's what I'm doing with her. But videos might work better. But then I get frustrated because I live in a portfolio state and how do I document that she's learning anything from watching videos???? Ugh. I hate protfolios.

 

15 was a hard age for homeschooling for us. We just sort of plugged along and then things got better. It is hard to tell not trying from not able. We worked on skills rather than content, especially study skills and writing, with a view to taking community college classes the next year. Content didn't seem to stick at that age, sigh. And I found things they were willing to work at and I set them up to work on them independently. I think part of the problem, in our case, was motivation, and the rest was a gap between their academic abilities and where they were intellectually. Intellectually, they were ready for more, but their academic skills weren't good enough for them to work at a higher level. It was very frustrating. In retrospect, I'm not sure there was really anything we could do about it except wait that period out while focusing on what they could do. Sorry. That isn't very helpful, probably. I would beware leaving her alone with her schoolwork at this stage, no matter how much she says she learns better that way. Mine wanted to work by themselves in everything, but were only able to do it for some things. The rest, I had to teach. Videos and books didn't really work. I worried about that until I realized that I had a teacher for almost everything, even in college.

 

Nan

You're absolutely right. It is very hard to tell the difference between not trying and not able. Especially because "not able" is so frustrating for the student and it makes them discouraged and look like they are not trying. I regret that I blew up today, and I will try to be more empathetic tomorrow.

 

I love community college classes. I highly recommend them. She won't be taking them next year, but perhaps the following year.

 

I suppose in history I'm guilty of not teaching her enough this year. I expect she can read and comprehend but she obviously can't. Time to re-think our approach. Oh well. It's only April! Maybe I'll figure it all out before the school year ends in 7 weeks!

[MomatHWTK]

You might start with allowing open book tests for history. That would give you a gauge of whether or not she actually understands what she's reading and what her research abilitites are.

 

For example, my DS (11) wanted to view or read something once and then take the test because he hates to reveiw. Not really a good plan for science, IMO. :glare: I had to show him that he could go to just the part of the book or tutorial that he needed to review. He thought he had to do the whole thing over from start to finish for review. Working with him I see that he still struggles with scanning headings and using indexes to find key information so I'll work on teaching him those skills.

 

For an essay, I would give her a specific topic on the Louisiana Purchase. For basic study and review, as mentioned, I'd probably just do an open book/resource multi-question or essay test depending on your style and the curricula you are using.

 

For more "fun" ideas you could have her create a Power Point presentation pretending to be the salesman for the transaction, or do a mock news story about the purchase. She could write a play about the events...

 

 

HTH

Edited April 3, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[Nan in Mass]

To learn to deal with textbooks, we had to do a lot of narration. One of us read a paragraph or two of the book aloud. Someone would narrate it back to me. I would correct it. Then at the end, I would ask what the main points were. They also worked on outlining. And I had to teach them to answer the textbook questions without just sort of talking about something vaguely related and thinking that was the answer. Or totally mistaking the intent of the question. Or thinking the question was too easy so the book must mean something else. Or something. Sigh. Mine don't remember anything unless they work with the material, use the material, sort the material, make flashcards, and memorize, and then review at intervals. In other words, put a lot of work into it.

 

Nan

[MomatHWTK]

Ah- Nan reminded me. I can't focus well so if I want to remember something I have to highlight it or write it down as copywork. My textbooks from college and beyond sometimes had whole paragraphs highlighted. For some reason the physical act of touching the words with the highlighter while reading made them "stick." I also made notes on little index cards to re-read, it was easier to flip through those than a notebook.

[Pammy]

though I haven't had her formally tested yet. Certain things are almost impossible for her to retain...especially math. We are really behind schedule in Math/science. I have learned to just accept that even if she can't retain the information, she has to try anyway. I can't keep her two grade levels behind now that she is in high school. My oldest son was this way at 15, so I sent him to public school (despite all my worries, he is doing great)! I can't do that with my dd, as it is a rough school, and I am a bit more protective of my girls. So, we will just keep plugging along, doing the required subjects for high school. She is very good at drama and sign language, so she does take some time to work on those subjects without my nudging her. We do history, writing, bible and Latin together. Math and Science are taught by a friend, and I teach her dd Latin and writing.

[Melissa in CA]

My oldest ds is a visual learner...like me. He also needs to use his hands in some way to make things click in his brain. Straight book learning never worked for him, and even in college he struggles mightily with classes that are all bookwork with no hands on projects, etc. Also because we are visual learners anything TOO visually busy will throw our brains into a tizzy. Mine will actually just shut down in a way that makes it impossible for me to learn the material on the page. DS as well. It's almost like I need to take a page of card stock, with a hole cut out of it, and put it on the page so I can JUST see what is in the box...learning that little bit at a time. Its a very frustrating way to be wired. I wish I could learn like normal people. My dh is so cute, he'll be explaining something he's going to build in the garage and he'll look at me and say, "you need me to draw you a picture, huh?" :lol: I am NOT an auditory learner. I can not visualize what someone is saying/explaining, I have to actually see it or chew on it a long time before it really clicks. Which totally explains why I struggled in school. Schools and curriculum are mostly geared toward the auditory learner.

 

One math curriculum that would have worked well for my oldest ds would have been Math U See. I was not aware his problem back then otherwise I would have used that with him throughout his homeschooling years. One history curriculum that seemed to work well for him was the year we used Mystery of History. We worked on the big timeline, and he made his memory cards each day, and did his mapping. It was a good year for him. I did not realize he and are are different learners until he was in 12th grade though! I knew that he had a learning disability because the ps helped me diagnose him, but I didn't know anything at all about learning styles. It wasn't until I found a thread on a homeschool message board that I had ever even considered such a thing and by then it was too late. :glare:

 

So, all that to say, be sure you learn her learning style and gear her curriculum toward that. I think it will help her excel, and improve her attitude. One thing the ps psychologists told me was that my ds's brain would get overwhelmed and then cause him to not be able to remember facts. He had GREAT short term memory and excelled at things like memory verses, but was terrible with chapter tests and the like. And because he couldn't remember, he would just not bother trying very hard. He knew that he would fail anyway, so why bother.

 

I don't know if our experience is at all helpful, but thought I would share just in case. Kids NEED to know that they are good at something, so be sure you praise her on those things she excels at. Perhaps she will never get straight A's in math, and that's OK. My ds was a straight C math student. It was honestly the best that HE could do and he is doing fine in college. He is not pursuing any type of math degree...:lol:...but what math he did have to have he has been able to complete.

[Amethyst]

You might start with allowing open book tests for history. That would give you a gauge of whether or not she actually understands what she's reading and what her research abilitites are.

 

I like this idea. Lately for science and math, I've been creating a review sheet for her myself and telling her to study from that. But she's losing an opportunity to find the information herself. I like this idea of open book. She might feel less pressure and, like you said, I'll be able to gauge her comprehension and research ability.

 

For example, my DS (11) wanted to view or read something once and then take the test because he hates to reveiw. Not really a good plan for science, IMO. :glare: I had to show him that he could go to just the part of the book or tutorial that he needed to review. He thought he had to do the whole thing over from start to finish for review. Working with him I see that he still struggles with scanning headings and using indexes to find key information so I'll work on teaching him those skills.

 

Yup. DD definitely needs work on how to review. She gets very overwhelmed and feels like it means reading everything all over again.

 

For more "fun" ideas you could have her create a Power Point presentation pretending to be the salesman for the transaction, or do a mock news story about the purchase. She could write a play about the events...

 

 

HTH

 

I love all these ideas. I can definitely see her enjoying doing some of these. Thanks

Edited April 4, 2012 by Amethyst

[Amethyst]

To learn to deal with textbooks, we had to do a lot of narration. One of us read a paragraph or two of the book aloud. Someone would narrate it back to me. I would correct it. Then at the end, I would ask what the main points were. They also worked on outlining. And I had to teach them to answer the textbook questions without just sort of talking about something vaguely related and thinking that was the answer. Or totally mistaking the intent of the question. Or thinking the question was too easy so the book must mean something else. Or something. Sigh. Mine don't remember anything unless they work with the material, use the material, sort the material, make flashcards, and memorize, and then review at intervals. In other words, put a lot of work into it.

 

Nan

 

This is what I did this morning with her for science. Man oh man, you ain't kiddin' when you say put a lot of work into it. I can't imagine doing this every day for just one subject! But she needs it. I hope it helps.

[Amethyst]

I can't focus well so if I want to remember something I have to highlight it or write it down as copywork. My textbooks from college and beyond sometimes had whole paragraphs highlighted. For some reason the physical act of touching the words with the highlighter while reading made them "stick."

 

This is me. The physical act of writing something down helps me remember. Not so much the highlighting. I remember in college that as I would read the textbook, I would take notes, always expecting to review them later. But I found that even if I never reviewed the notes, the physical act helped to cement it in my brain. I'm hoping this will help my dd too since this morning I had her write down her narration for science.

[Amethyst]

though I haven't had her formally tested yet. Certain things are almost impossible for her to retain...especially math. We are really behind schedule in Math/science. I have learned to just accept that even if she can't retain the information, she has to try anyway. I can't keep her two grade levels behind now that she is in high school. My oldest son was this way at 15, so I sent him to public school (despite all my worries, he is doing great)! I can't do that with my dd, as it is a rough school, and I am a bit more protective of my girls. So, we will just keep plugging along, doing the required subjects for high school. She is very good at drama and sign language, so she does take some time to work on those subjects without my nudging her. We do history, writing, bible and Latin together. Math and Science are taught by a friend, and I teach her dd Latin and writing.

 

Yes. "Has to try anyway." This is where I'm at now. I've accepted that she'll never be the math student that my boys are, but I'm afraid that has translated into not trying at all.

 

Nice setup you have with your friend!

[Amethyst]

My oldest ds is a visual learner...like me. He also needs to use his hands in some way to make things click in his brain. Straight book learning never worked for him, and even in college he struggles mightily with classes that are all bookwork with no hands on projects, etc. Also because we are visual learners anything TOO visually busy will throw our brains into a tizzy. Mine will actually just shut down in a way that makes it impossible for me to learn the material on the page. DS as well. It's almost like I need to take a page of card stock, with a hole cut out of it, and put it on the page so I can JUST see what is in the box...learning that little bit at a time. Its a very frustrating way to be wired. I wish I could learn like normal people. My dh is so cute, he'll be explaining something he's going to build in the garage and he'll look at me and say, "you need me to draw you a picture, huh?" :lol: I am NOT an auditory learner. I can not visualize what someone is saying/explaining, I have to actually see it or chew on it a long time before it really clicks. Which totally explains why I struggled in school. Schools and curriculum are mostly geared toward the auditory learner.

 

One math curriculum that would have worked well for my oldest ds would have been Math U See. I was not aware his problem back then otherwise I would have used that with him throughout his homeschooling years. One history curriculum that seemed to work well for him was the year we used Mystery of History. We worked on the big timeline, and he made his memory cards each day, and did his mapping. It was a good year for him. I did not realize he and are are different learners until he was in 12th grade though! I knew that he had a learning disability because the ps helped me diagnose him, but I didn't know anything at all about learning styles. It wasn't until I found a thread on a homeschool message board that I had ever even considered such a thing and by then it was too late. :glare:

 

So, all that to say, be sure you learn her learning style and gear her curriculum toward that. I think it will help her excel, and improve her attitude. One thing the ps psychologists told me was that my ds's brain would get overwhelmed and then cause him to not be able to remember facts. He had GREAT short term memory and excelled at things like memory verses, but was terrible with chapter tests and the like. And because he couldn't remember, he would just not bother trying very hard. He knew that he would fail anyway, so why bother.

 

I don't know if our experience is at all helpful, but thought I would share just in case. Kids NEED to know that they are good at something, so be sure you praise her on those things she excels at. Perhaps she will never get straight A's in math, and that's OK. My ds was a straight C math student. It was honestly the best that HE could do and he is doing fine in college. He is not pursuing any type of math degree...:lol:...but what math he did have to have he has been able to complete.

 

Thank you. Your experience is helpful. I will definitely be putting in some effort to find out what her learning style is. And you are not the first person to mention MUS, so I guess I have to check into that. Thanks.

[Nan in Mass]

This is what I did this morning with her for science. Man oh man, you ain't kiddin' when you say put a lot of work into it. I can't imagine doing this every day for just one subject! But she needs it. I hope it helps.

 

It WILL help. In fact, it is fundamental. It is well worth the time, laborious as it is. You will need to do lots of nicer things to balance the awfulness of doing this. Sigh. As I said, though, it is really, really important.

 

Nan

[Amethyst]

It WILL help. In fact, it is fundamental. It is well worth the time, laborious as it is. You will need to do lots of nicer things to balance the awfulness of doing this. Sigh. As I said, though, it is really, really important.

 

Nan

 

Yes! You've got it. I need to balance things. I've been so determined this year to get her up to what I think a 9th grader should know, that we've missed out on fun stuff this year. Fortunately yesterday we did an all-day field trip and the girls loved it. I have at least two more (closer) field trips lined up for before the end of the year. And hopefully some fun stuff at home too.

[scrapbookbuzz]

I'm a visual learner. While I am a fairly decent reader, I do not learn well by just reading.

I learn well by combining reading, audio with music, and creating or doing. It sounds to me like

your daughter may need that combo as well. For science, I would highly recommend the Lyrical Life Science cd's. We listen to those just for fun here! For history, SOTW has some great activities listed in the Activity guides (not the coloring pages/maps). And a skit here and there should help as well.

 

I know that's "not you", mama, but this is about helping your daughter learn and RETAIN. HTH!

[PeterPan]

Sometimes you hit the wall and it's time to get testing rather than just guessing. She could have attention issues or vision problems or other stuff impacting her school work. Certainly sounds like something to investigate, from what you've said. A good vision check never hurt anyone. If you use a developmental optometrist (not a regular one) from COVD and just get a regular vision check done, they'll screen some extra things a regular optometrist misses that can affect school work (convergence, focusing, tracking, etc.). That alone could explain the symptoms you're describing. Meanwhile, personally, given the amount of frustration you're having, I'd look into more thorough testing (neuropsychologist). They'll do a myriad of tests to narrow down what is causing these issues. What you're talking about is not just learning style. How you teach will affect it, but when you have this much frustration, it's time to find out what's going on. Those are the two evals you want. The neuropsych will typically take 1-4 months to get in, and the vision check is a matter of weeks. So you can schedule both, and if by some miracle the vision takes care of everything, then you cancel the neuropsychologist eval. But if not, then you are in line to get it. It would answer a lot of questions for you and give you a lot of practical information on how to teach her and what she needs.

[Nan in Mass]

I do best with textbooks if there are lots of pictures and diagrams. One of the reasons I liked the grammar and logic stage recommendations in TWTM was that they were heavily illustrated (think Kingfisher). For example, the Prentice Hall biology book with the dragonfly on the cover (high school biology) has many diagrams that repeat the information in the text. I read the text, but as I read it, I refer to the diagram. I had my son copy any diagrams from the chapters that he did. (We did natural history (very doing/drawing oriented) instead of biology, but he did do some chapters and to help him, I had to read the chapter also.) You might want to check out graphic organizers. You also might want to check out the how to study book by Robinson. He has information on how to DO things with a chapter of text. They all involve rewriting it or drawing it, but if your daughter wants to go to college, she needs to master this. That doesn't mean she needs to learn every subject that way in high school. There is no reason why she can't learn the bulk of her material in whatever way works best for her. At some point, though, she has to gain the academic skills she needs to manage college classes, and that means learning to deal with textbooks and answering textbook questions, which means being able to narrate text and being able to pick out the main points and knowing how to memorize and keep things memorized. All of which is very laborious if it isn't the sort of thing that comes naturally to your child. Not that I don't think OElizabeth's advice isn't good advice, but I think the end result might be the same - having to suffer through learning to narrate, etc., if you are going to try to do college in the regular way, via large classes and textbooks. (My older two are at a very hands-on college, so it is possible to find a different approach, but some of it still requires those basic WTM skills.) Figuring out learning style and whether there are any physical problems is important. If you can't read a textbook or can't absorb it in text form, then you need to find alternative ways to absorb the basic information. You still need to figure out how to process the information once it is absorbed and then use it (TWTM skills?) but knowing one's learning style is very helpful when it comes to developing a personal set of study skills. It also is important to know one's limitations. You don't want to pick a profession where you are forever going to be doing a worse job than everyone else, just because you were born a certain way. You want to find the things you are good at, contribute that to the world, and figure out a way to survive and get through the rest of life's necessities (like that physics class that is a prerequisite). It is also important to realize that studying a subject often doesn't ressemble doing that subject as a profession. The first often requires academic skills that the second doesn't. In that case, repeating things, struggling, being slower than everyone else won't matter, as long as one gets through in the end.

 

Nan

 

(Editted this to fix the bit that made it sound like I disagreed with OhElizabeth, which I don't.)

Edited April 6, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[PeterPan]

At some point, though, she has to gain the academic skills she needs to manage college classes, and that means learning to deal with textbooks and answering textbook questions, which means being able to narrate text and being able to pick out the main points and knowing how to memorize and keep things memorized. All of which is very laborious if it isn't the sort of thing that comes naturally to your child. Not that I don't think OElizabeth's advice isn't good advice, but I think the end result might be the same - having to suffer through learning to narrate, etc.

 

Nan

 

I'm definitely not anti-textbook. I've used many and am planning more for dd for next year. We just found there were some pre-requisite skills in place to making you successful with them. Ok, I'm still confused. I said nothing about textbooks. All I said was to consider looking for root causes and not just keep guessing about what's going on. But whatever. I'm clearly very confused. :D

[Nan in Mass]

OhElizabeth - I was posting in a hurry (always a bad idea) while trying to find housing in Swizterland and figure out next year's community college schedule and nest it with the baby-I-take-care-of's schedule. Ug. Anyway ... All I was trying to say (and I am sure you would say the same thing) was that figuring out learning style may (probably?) won't negate the need to laboriously learn how to narrate, etc. The part I left out was what it will do (good things). I thought that was obvious so in my hurry I didn't state it. I definately got the tone wrong, though. It came across as though I had disagreed with something you said, which certainly wasn't the case. All I was trying to do was encourage Amethyst to continue working on narration even though it is horrible and a horrible lot of hard work (it always feels like badgering to me, for some reason). I wasn't trying to discourage her from doing any sort of testing and I didn't mean to imply that there was anything wrong with what you said. I'm glad you said something. I'll think about how to edit what I said so it doesn't go implying such a thing. Sooorrrrrrrryyy...

Nan

[PeterPan]

Oh Nan, lol, we're so funny, aren't we? I think it's a very good warning. And I was seeing that same stick from the opposite direction, that all the hard work can be pretty ineffective (or undirected) if you don't know what's going on. Like if you try and try but what you needed to know that the dc's processing speed was low or there was a vision problem, you're really swimming upstream, kwim? The information lets you funnel that hard work. So I wasn't talking learning style (visual, auditory, whatever) as some out. I meant processing speed, learning disabilities, physical problems like vision, etc. that leave people banging their heads. My personal opinion is that when people come on a public board and are expressing extreme frustration with a dc who is beyond the norms for behavior, learning issues, etc., it's time to get some evals. Then you have the information to know where to put that hard work. They're already working hard, but it's spinning them in circles. They need new information and the evals give that.

[Nan in Mass]

LOL - Yes, aren't we?

I think evaluations would help one to know when and where to push through and when and where a true wall has been hit and a work-around needs to be found. I do think, though, that somewhere in all there, going back and working on those WTM basic skills may turn out to be very important, even if it is very slow going and the end results turn out to be less than average.

Nan

[PeterPan]

You know that's the funniest thing about hanging out on the SN boards here. Someone will come on saying they want some magic cure (curriculum to purchase to fix xyz), and you'll say go back and DO WHAT THE WTM SAYS. They're like no, it can't work, that's too hard, I don't have time, blah blah. But the magic is discovering that the *skills* in WTM *are* a normal progression. How you implement them varies and the TIMING varies with the kid, but it's still a solid progression.

 

We're doing your spider webs for writing btw. We do them on our ipad with a mindmapping app. Isn't that cool? :)

[Nan in Mass]

Oh very very cool!

 

Very frustrating about those WTM skills. That is why I try to be so vocal about them. I made the same mistake. My children are so uneven, both in wiring and in growing, that it got very confusing. First they could already do them so then I ignored them and then later discovered they could no longer do them at an age-appropriate level (or at least the one with the different wiring couldn't) so I tried other things only to find that what we really had to do was back way up and work on those skills. Ug. If only I had known then what I know now... It seems to be working out ok, though, so far. We just wasted a lot of time doing things that didn't work and weren't going to work. I am amazed my children still trust me.

Nan