Math placement

[Beans]

I have an 11yo. gearing up for 7th grade. I don't feel confident with her math foundations, and word problems are beyond her grasp.

 

I'm beginning SM 3a a with younger, and wonder if my time would be well spent doing this with her, or just jumping into a pre-algebra program.

 

Anyone else have experiences with this? :confused: I feel like I've let her down and hate to throw her in something without a solid footing. Would next year be better spent building foundations?:confused::confused:

Edited March 24, 2012 by Beans
Grammatical

[athomemom]

I have an 11yo. gearing up for 7th grade. I don't feel confident with her math foundations, and word problems are beyond her grasp.

 

I'm beginning SM 3a a with younger, and wonder if my time would be well spent doing this with her, or just jumping into a pre-algebra program.

 

Anyone else have experiences with this? :confused: I feel like I've let her down and hate to throw her in something without a solid footing. Would next year be better spent building foundations?:confused::confused:

 

Yes! A solid foundation is definitely the key in math. I wouldn't hesitate to use 7th grade to solidify facts, etc.

[Riverland]

I would definitely not jump into pre-algebra if your dd is not ready for it. Back up and use a different curriculum for next year; SM or whatever else she might enjoy. It will not be a wasted year, rather it will help her succeed in future years.

[HSMom2One]

I agree with others here. My dd has spent 7th grade going through Saxon 7/6 instead of moving ahead with TT Pre-Algebra as we had planned. I discovered through a placement test I gave her in August last year that she was not retaining what she had learned at that VERY important 6th grade level. Learning this, we switched over to Saxon with the constant repetition and now she is doing just fantastic. We're a year behind "grade level" compared to many, but she is excelling finally and that is all that matters to us.

 

Don't hesitate to work at your child's pace instead of at the pace of others. Isn't that, after all, one of the beauties of hs'ing?

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Crimson Wife]

Are you asking about having your 7th grader do Singapore 3A? While I love Singapore, I don't think it is the best choice for doing catch-up work. Instead, I would get the Math Mammoth "blue" grades 4-6 bundle and just work on the most key topics from that: multiplication, division, fractions, decimals, percents, ratios.

 

Because the MM "blue" books are ungraded, they won't make your DD feel like she is doing "baby math" like her younger sibling.

[Hedgehog]

Have you considered using MEP? It's a spiral program and the best of it is that it's pretty much free! I'm just about to start using it with my lot, but there are plenty of threads about it if you search, and also a great yahoo group for support.

[Trilliums]

Have you looked at Khan Academy? If you got her a free acct and started at the very beginning of the knowledge web, she could work her way through math concepts from the beginning. For concepts she knows, it does not take many correct practice problems to move onto the next concept. Areas where she has difficulty will become apparent if she has a hard time mastering them. Then she can use the videos for a review of how to approach the problems.

 

DS in 8th grade did this as he started algebra and it has worked wonders.

[Beans]

These are all feelings I've had in my heart, it's just tough feeling behind sometimes. I know the foundation is best solid.

 

Thank you for the links on MEP and MM, as I was afraid of the "baby" deal. I just feel like SM is such a "building" platform. I like the word problem emphasis of the curric.

 

We did use Khan as review and practice for some fractions, but had not thought to use the web to make sure all concepts were linked and retained. Thank you all again.:) :)

[PeterPan]

I like MM a lot, but it has a few quirks that, to me, make it not good for a remedial situation with a child who needs lots of review. My dd found the language and explanations hard to understand. It's very conceptual. I like it and she did well with it, but I'm just saying it might not fit what you're describing.

 

In your shoes I would be looking at:

 

CLE

Lial BCM

BJU6 (unfortunately, there's no free placement test for this)

TT

Saxon

MUS

 

Now to explain those. All but the BJU have placement tests. You need to DO the placement tests, all of them. By the time you do the placement tests, you're going to have a much better feel for how those curricula approach things. They're RADICALLY different. Go ahead and do the placement test for MM too, and I think you'll see what I'm saying.

 

You said she's not understanding word problems. That can mean she's not understanding how to do multiple steps, sort out irrelevant information, figure out what operation to use, etc. It can also mean there's something neurological going on. When you have a struggling child at this age, it's good to figure out whether it's a problem of poor past instruction (family had a death, couldn't afford something, school was a bad fit, whatever), or whether there's something more intrinsic on. I'm not saying you have to do this now, but I would start asking whether some testing is in order. This is that age where they hit the wall, can't cover it anymore, and it's time to do testing (attention, LDs, vision, hearing, whatever). Sometimes these symptoms you're seeing are indicative of a deeper problem, and you don't want to miss that.

 

Back to curricula. MM is very abstract and has crunchy explanations that not all kids can understand. MUS is the polar opposite of that, very hands-on and very clear. It makes math clear for some kids who are not going to get it otherwise. It would be the very first thing I looked at, given what you're saying. If you know she doesn't need that hands-on, then I would look at Lial's BCM, TT, CLE, etc. CLE brings spiral to the table in a really practical, interesting way. TT has short, ENGAGING lessons. If she doesn't need the hands-on but she does need engagement, TT will get her there. Not only do they have placement tests, but they have numerous sample lessons for each level. CLE will send you a free light unit (an entire booklet of it, about a month's worth of work) for FREE. BCM is cheap, but it has lots of print and is aimed at older learners. You would have to be able to do it with her. It can be overwhelming. It sounds nice in theory, but it's only going to fit some learners. The BJU6 is actually a very good level. It's one you need to teach. It doesn't have a lot of hands-on, and it's not something you can just hand her and get done.

 

Was that clear as mud? Do the placement tests for lots of curricula and see what starts to gel with her. She might love CLE or TT. If those are too papery and abstract, look at MUS.

 

PS. To the people who get riled at my post slamming this stuff or recommending stuff, I've used everything from this list except the Saxon and MUS. Well that's not true; with Lial I used the pre-algebra. Anyways, I've btdt, tried a lot of things, and that's how I sort stuff out. All these curricula bring something unique to the table, and it's really a question of what factors are most important with your child. And on the testing, I HIGHLY recommend testing, can't say that enough. If something is going on, you want to know. If nothing is going on, then it's good to know that too.

Edited March 25, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[AngieW in Texas]

I mostly agree with OhElizabeth.

 

I have never even seen BJU, so I have no comment on that program.

 

I don't like Saxon at all. I know it works for some, but I really can't see it working in your situation. Saxon uses a lot of education-speak which can make things really hard to grasp for the kids who already don't get it.

 

Of all the others on the list, the only one I haven't tried with my youngest (dyslexic) is Teaching Textbooks. I would be perfectly willing to use it with her. I think it could be a really good program for her. But she won't do any math program that is on the computer, so it just isn't going to happen here.

 

Lial's had too much text too close together and too much color for my dd. She could do the work, but she'd have to do it without ever actually seeing the book because it was very intimidating. She also needs to be able to work directly in the book.

 

My dd couldn't stand CLE because of the spiral. She really needs to do a lot of problems on what she has just learned and then do a little review of old material. CLE was too spiral for her (although at least it wasn't as spiral as Saxon). I have seen it work for a lot of kids though and would recommend trying CLE before trying Saxon.

 

MUS is the one that seems to be working for my dd for now. My dd hates Steve Demme with a passion and won't watch the videos because they always confused her. I teach her from the teacher book and then she does the problems in the student book. The prealgebra level of MUS was not a good fit, but Algebra I seems to be moving along a lot better.

 

Another program to look at is Moving with Math. It only goes to 8th grade level though, so that won't take care of you for very long.

[Beans]

OhElizabeth, thank you for your information, it is well received, and clearly:001_smile: She has no signs of underlying problems, just a little behind because of hard circumstances for 2 years, up until early last year. She has actually thrived in our push to catch up. I feel confident in all of her basic skills, a little behind but solid, except the math. I feel like the word problems are simply showing gaps or lack of retaining, but it is something to be aware of.

 

AngieW, thanks for going further with insights into the currics. I may be leaning toward MUS, as she prefers a lesson (whether it be me or a video), lots of practice, then a review of recent material. She comes to me for help, and I check in frequently. She prefers the independent feeling, and I can tend to youngers if need be, but I am willing to do step by step if it is the most effective path. That being said, I will spend the next two days looking into all of these and seeing what she responds to, as well as suiting our needs best. My instinct (laziness), wanted to go with Singapore because of my son using it (SM if definately geared toward his learning style and needs.)

 

Thanks again ladies for your thoughts and opinions. I feel like I have a better direction when looking at the enormity of curriculum out there. My husband and I have already decided that this summer and next year will be dedicated to this in the math department. I know my kids are doing well, despite a little set back, and I truly believe that they are catching up only because we have them at home, learning, no matter the pace or level.

[PeterPan]

With what you've described, I would do the BJU with her. She could probably even do the gr 6. It would get her on grade level and expects some teacher interaction but not a ton, which fits the dynamic you're describing. She'll test well after it, and then you can determine your next course. It's sort of middle of the road conceptually. It would do what you need.

 

You can do Singapore with her, but as you say you're then backtracking a lot. I guess try it and see what happens. I think you're right, absolutely right, to do this backtracking and get things solid. You won't regret that.

 

You know the other thing you could do is get her into a grade appropriate text (BJU6, whatever) and then do just the Singapore CWP (or whatever they call them now) books. I've used SM CWP on and off alongside our stuff and like it. It would definitely make a good supplement and boost up what you're wanting with word problems without requiring her to go back and slog through multiple, multiple levels of SM. But you know, she might get into SM and love it. You just never know.

[coffeefreak]

With what you've described, I would do the BJU with her. She could probably even do the gr 6. It would get her on grade level and expects some teacher interaction but not a ton, which fits the dynamic you're describing. She'll test well after it, and then you can determine your next course. It's sort of middle of the road conceptually. It would do what you need.

 

You can do Singapore with her, but as you say you're then backtracking a lot. I guess try it and see what happens. I think you're right, absolutely right, to do this backtracking and get things solid. You won't regret that.

 

You know the other thing you could do is get her into a grade appropriate text (BJU6, whatever) and then do just the Singapore CWP (or whatever they call them now) books. I've used SM CWP on and off alongside our stuff and like it. It would definitely make a good supplement and boost up what you're wanting with word problems without requiring her to go back and slog through multiple, multiple levels of SM. But you know, she might get into SM and love it. You just never know.

 

:iagree:

 

The only thing I wanted to mention is, I just talked with BJU Thursday, and they actually recommend their 7th grade book for students that need to review the foundations before moving to pre-algebra.

 

Our oldest will be in 7th next year and has struggled with math. What I've discovered is she does best with the Unit approach. Spending an amount of time on one topic before moving off. Looking back through the years, she's done well on Singapore, MUS, and I think she'll do well with BJU.

 

HTH!

Dorinda

[coffeefreak]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, we're going to use the Online videos to teach. The total program is around $300, which may seem a bit much, but we think it's worth it. DD has always done better when Steve teaches her :) , so we're going to try this out and see how it goes.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[PeterPan]

Well I have the new edition BJU7, and that's a pretty rough chunk of change. I know someone using it acceptably (as opposed to happily) with a remedial 8th grader, and yes they're using the dvds. It's definitely a good solid book. I would do it after doing the BJU6 when you have a 6th gr remedial student. I think it will work out great for Dorinda's situation. I'm just saying for the op I would look at the 6 first. She could do it this summer and go into the 7 in the fall.

Edited March 26, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[Beans]

The more I look, the more I like BJU 6. DVDs are not a make or break component for us, just an option to give her some independence while we are in a living situation that is not necessarily ideal. I have avoided BJU curriculum in general in the past because of the non-secular aspects of it, but that is due in part to our beliefs, as well as the variety of secular material available now (as opposed to twelve years ago). This view, I'm sure has led to us missing out on a math curriculum, but I won't be so closed minded this time. We're focused on getting all 3 older children on or about proper grade level by next fall. Not to say that we're all about what grade they're in, we just want to make sure they are on the right track with solid footing.

 

I think I'm really just freaking about high school all of a sudden, feeling a little old because my oldest will be in 7th grade(!!!!), and feeling exhausted from a year long task of catch up.

[PeterPan]

Beans, are you thinking you'll do the 6 with the videos or by yourself? You can do it by yourself, no problem, but make sure you buy the extras they sell. When we did it, they sold the components separately. I haven't looked in a while. They may have updated it. In the new editions they changed it up, putting the extra stuff on a cd in the tm. So whatever. Just gives you something to ask about when you decide what way you're doing it.

[Beans]

Right now, looking at BJU 6, I'm going to say nay on the DVDs simply because of the cost difference. The package (manipulatives, teacher text and CD, tests, etc.) is more with in my price range, and I feel confident with myself leading lessons (although I have to admit I'm not mathy AT ALL, and this is the last level of math I feel 100% on :tongue_smilie:).

The teachers cd may have some sections we may or may not use, but I will feel much better having the teaching notes to back me up if I feel uncertain of a process, or just need a review myself.

[coffeefreak]

The more I look, the more I like BJU 6. DVDs are not a make or break component for us, just an option to give her some independence while we are in a living situation that is not necessarily ideal. I have avoided BJU curriculum in general in the past because of the non-secular aspects of it, but that is due in part to our beliefs, as well as the variety of secular material available now (as opposed to twelve years ago). This view, I'm sure has led to us missing out on a math curriculum, but I won't be so closed minded this time. We're focused on getting all 3 older children on or about proper grade level by next fall. Not to say that we're all about what grade they're in, we just want to make sure they are on the right track with solid footing.

 

I think I'm really just freaking about high school all of a sudden, feeling a little old because my oldest will be in 7th grade(!!!!), and feeling exhausted from a year long task of catch up.

 

I'm feeling you Beans! I feel like we've always played catch up, especially with math. Here's hoping this gives you a better year!

Blessings!

Dorinda

:grouphug: