Math for a child that struggles with Saxon

[TwoToSchool]

My daughter is in 4th grade (previously 3rd grade in public school) I chose Saxon math after hearing rave reviews and purchased an ability appropriate Saxon math for each of my kids. My 2nd grader is sailing through, finishing his math work in 10 minutes per day, while my daughter is spending nearly 2 hours on just math. She is HATING it and I'm frustrated with the constant math fights. I need something else, obviously. The problem is, not that she 'can't do' Saxon, I think it's just too much, if that makes sense. She's not the strongest on multiplication facts and we are doing flashcards and such, but se needs something....different. I'm a bit lost on my options. Are there any recs. on a different curriculum that's worked for your 4th grader? Thanks!

[edeemarie]

Multiplication can be a tricky thing at this age. My son, who has always enjoyed math, recently went through a phase where he wasn't enjoying it because the multiplication was tripping him up. We took a break from math and made up some songs for him to memorize that were the multiples of numbers (so it works for division and multiplication ). Now that he has his facts down, he is back to loving math. So maybe think about taking a break until you know she has her multiplication facts down and then start back up again. We use McRuffy Color Math, which is spiral like Saxon, but is very child and teacher friendly, and has different aspects for all of the learning styles. Hope that helps!

[PeterPan]

Did you give her the placement test? I would figure out if the issue is placement (needs to go down a level) or simply that her facts are slow. If her facts are slow, give her a multiplication table. You could even spend a week just working on them. If they *continue* to be slow (beyond the norm, aggravatingly slow), then you could be seeing the hints of some kind of problem (vision, processing speed, whatever). But don't buy problems you don't have. Try the other two things and see if that sorts it out. A multiplication table lets them use their visual memory to learn the facts faster. It's an awesome tool, and they love it cuz they feel like they're cheating. :)

[Tenaj]

CLE - Make sure you do the placement test if you decide to go this direction. My 10yods ended up on the 3rd grade level this year but it is doing wonders for his math ability. We switched him over from Saxon last year after many tears and it has been a breath of fresh air around here.

[Spetzi]

Saxon Math is too much for *me.* The quantity of work is way too much, imo. If you don't want to change curric at this point in the year, give yourself permission to skip some of the work.

 

I used Saxon 3 for the first year I homeschooled. By the end of the week we had done what they asked at least once (coin cup, calendar, adding, multiplying, etc.), but we didn't practice each skill each day.

 

If you want to change entirely I think Horizons is a good choice (some Christian content).

[AngieW in Texas]

If you want something Saxon-like (in terms of review) without as much busywork, you might like Excel Math.

http://excelmath.com/

 

I can't stand Saxon. The approach makes no sense to me and I would have failed math with Saxon.

 

Another option that has a lot of review is CLE Math.

 

The program I really liked for 4th grade math was Singapore, but you'd definitely need to do a placement test and she would probably place into 2B or 3A.

 

I don't like Math-U-See at all, but it appears to be the only program that works for my youngest now. She did Singapore up through 5b and then she completely stalled. I spent several years trying to find another program that would work for her before coming around to MUS. You would definitely need to do a placement test because it isn't set up like anything else.

[livingmydream]

We switched my son from Horizons in 4th grade (it was getting so frustrating and hard to teach) and jumped right into Teaching Textbooks grade 5. He is now about to start the prealgebra and loves it and is really learning! It is so worth every penny for this busy mama.

[TwoToSchool]

CLE - Make sure you do the placement test if you decide to go this direction. My 10yods ended up on the 3rd grade level this year but it is doing wonders for his math ability. We switched him over from Saxon last year after many tears and it has been a breath of fresh air around here.

 

Thanks for your input, JanOH! I'm not familiar with CLE, where can I find it?

 

I did do a placement test for Saxon and, as expected, she should be doing Saxon 4/5 , as she is. I do think her facts a a bit slow, but I also feel like perhaps there's just 'too much' per day. Is Singapore a 'shorter' lesson, or are they as repetitive in review as Saxon?

[Carol in Cal.]

I used QuarterMileMath instead of Saxon's facts review for years. It was great practice, and worked toward automaticity more effectively than the worksheets. I also taught skip counting through 12's, and DD fell back on that a lot in the meantime. 4th grade is when a lot of abstraction really starts. You might need to slow down a bit.

 

Saxon is a great program for some kids, like my DD, and a terrible one for others, like me. The incremental teaching and constant review either work very solidly or not at all. It's important to figure out which kind of child you have before you go too much further with this.

[TwoToSchool]

Saxon Math is too much for *me.* The quantity of work is way too much, imo. If you don't want to change curric at this point in the year, give yourself permission to skip some of the work.

 

I used Saxon 3 for the first year I homeschooled. By the end of the week we had done what they asked at least once (coin cup, calendar, adding, multiplying, etc.), but we didn't practice each skill each day.

 

If you want to change entirely I think Horizons is a good choice (some Christian content).

This is exactly how I feel about Saxon....it's just A LOT! I'm doing a lot of patchwork in math as well as spelling (to make up for what my kids lacked in public school). We are homeschooling straight through summer, so if I switch now, I'm pretty sure we'll be right on track come fall.

[Mom28kds]

I agree with CLE. I used Saxon a few years back with my older kids. When I began to research what I wanted to use for my 5th grader coming out of PS I wanted the independant spiral approach that Saxon has and I kept hearing about CLE. My son was not mathy andI didn't like how many problem Saxon had. It can be overwhelming.

CLE is very independant like Saxon as well as spiral (continue review). However, it doesn't have as many problem and your child doesn't need to rewrite every problem on another page. He isn't having any problems with math and I'm using it with all my younger kids

[Tenaj]

Thanks for your input, JanOH! I'm not familiar with CLE, where can I find it?

 

I did do a placement test for Saxon and, as expected, she should be doing Saxon 4/5 , as she is. I do think her facts a a bit slow, but I also feel like perhaps there's just 'too much' per day. Is Singapore a 'shorter' lesson, or are they as repetitive in review as Saxon?

 

 

Christian Light Publications

Here's a link to their math page (I hope) http://www.clp.org/store/by_subject/4

[Spy Car]

Is Singapore a 'shorter' lesson, or are they as repetitive in review as Saxon?

 

The approach is totally different with Singapore. Instead of learning tiny bits of new concepts ("incremental" learning) while doing constant review, Singapore (more-or-less) focuses on mastering one new topic at a time in depth. Topics tend to spiral around from year to year (so it is not the last time a child will see the topic) and many people use supplementary Singapore books like the challenging Intensive Practice books that if not aligned to lessons provide "review."

 

But the lessons in Singapore are much leaner than Saxon and tend to be "on point" rather than the (to me) scattered approach in Saxon.

 

Primary Mathematics has two current versions in the USA, the US Edition and the Standards Edition. The US Edition is really stripped down, where the SE has more built in review (no where near that of the Saxon approach). Either is going to be more time efficient than Saxon.

 

Some children take to an "incremental" approach for others it is a disaster because they never see the whole concept in a fashion that leads to "mastery."

 

You need to ask if your child is one who can take little pieces taught incrementally and through practice build up to a "big picture", or if they are a child who needs to have the "big picture" first.

 

Then decide.

 

Bill

[Hunter]

To be able to handle the daily load of work in Saxon, a student MUST be properly placed in the curriculum. They must be mostly working on SPEED and ACCURACY, not still trying to LEARN multiple concepts, each day.

 

Saxon sometimes does not provide enough review for some children, even though people are always complaining it has too much review. Each child is unique. Some children need to do a 1/2 lesson twice each day, or stop and start the book over. The yahoo group for the Robinson curriculum is THE place to learn about tweaking Saxon.

 

Sometimes a parent needs to stop and supplement Saxon, when they notice a weak area that needs special attention. Stop, use some living books, games, drill, Waldorf ideas. Then do NOT try and pick up where the student left off. Go BACK in the book, to at least several lessons BEFORE the student started to struggle.

 

It is hard to cover up a weakness with Saxon. As soon as there is a problem the student screeches to a halt. That can be a good thing. Often a parent can abandon Saxon and use a different curriculum that makes it easier to hide a weakness and at first sing the praises of the new one, but then screech to a halt again a year or two later, that is even a bigger festering problem.

 

I absolutely do NOT believe Saxon is the only or the best curriculum, but I do believe many parents jump ship too quickly that otherwise would have been happier with Saxon, than the hodgepodge of curriculum jumping that they replace it with. Saxon can be tweaked.

 

Some students are better sticking with Saxon even if it means being "behind" and taking 2 years to do each book. It can be terrifying to watch a child fall more and more "behind" and it seems that Saxon screams that out to the world. "Behind" isn't as important as making steady progress.

 

Many home schooled students have shown up at Junior college having just completed Saxon Algebra 1/2 and Algebra 1 for high school texts, and tested far higher than the average public school student who finished geometry and algebra 2 with other texts. "Slow and steady wins the race."