swellmomma Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Forgive me if this is a bit rambling, it sort of how my thoughts are flowing today. Here in Canada boy scouts is actually co-ed so while we currently have no girls registered we could, as well female leadership is no problem. Is this the case in the US? The post about the goings on in some scout troops had me thinking about the troop my boys are in and my beaver colony. I am a beaver scout leader so *my* boys are 5-6 years old, own beaver meeting runs at the same time as the cub scouts and scouts do but ends 30 minutes sooner, so after my beavers leave I help out with the bigger boys. As it is our scoutmaster will not put up with the kind of carp listed in that other post, but really there is very little of it anyway. Having myself there and the male leaders gives a different dynamic. The boys have the male leaders that being male tend to give the boys more leeway than a woman would (like in most families the dads are that way), and then they have me, the resident mom. I am the one that is squealing "slow down"(to which they laugh hysterically, I think they enjoy making me scared ;) I am the one that is carrying around extra napkins at events and reminding them to wipe their faces and mind their manners. I am the one they come to when hurt or upset. (In fact my beavers and several of the sub scouts are upset with me right now because I am not attending camp this weekend). The bigger boys would never dream of saying dirty things around me the way they would around just the boys, not because I am a tough disciplinarian but because the thought of saying stuff like that around a "mom" is too embarassing to them to do so. I think our troop has a good balance like a family does, of the rough and tumble the men bring, with the caution, and nuture that I as a female bring. It made me start wondering if it is just our particular troop and the group of boys that we currently have, or if there is really something to having at least 1 female leader to a troop and whether or not troop in the US permit female leadership. Do you think having female leadership alongside the males would provide a more even keeled program for the boys with a good balance between supervision/caution and the relaxed/rough play etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Women can be in leadership. In our own experience, we saw more of it at the Cub Scout level than at the Boy Scout level. Girls can be in Venturing, the only co-ed part of BSA. I think the age for that level is 14-21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Female leadership is common in US Boy Scouts. Girls are allowed in a branch of Boy Scouts called Venturing, but not in standard Cub/Boy Scouts (though siblings often participate in an unofficial capacity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I suspect it is more a matter of the personal dynamics between you and your troop. I have seen guys (usually older) in that role too - expecting and getting more in the way of decency, manners and gentility. I have also seen women who use very colorful language and definitely would not fill that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm committee chair of our troop. I wouldn't want to be a Scoutmaster, though. I want my boys to get away from estrogen every once in a while. I'm a tough mom - my kids were never pampered... I'm probably tougher than our scoutmasters, actually.... But there are things moms just do that guys don't.... I have a harder time letting them do stupid stuff, I guess :) However, If it was a co-ed troop, I think the dynamics would be totally different. BTW - I was a den leader and the Cub Master in our Cub Scout Pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 My son's troop had a couple older moms who wore their Scout uniforms to meetings and were, if not the top leaders, extremely active in the troop. They represented to the young men that women were also perfectly capable of camping, knot-tying, etc. I saw it as a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Do you think having female leadership alongside the males would provide a more even keeled program for the boys with a good balance between supervision/caution and the relaxed/rough play etc? Just to address this specifically... IMHO, this would be the problem with moms in scoutmaster positions (in non-coed troops). My boys don't want a mommy hanging over them at camp. I mean - ok - maybe someone will get hurt - but that hasn't happened since we've been in the troop, and the point is for them to be rough and somewhat unsupervised as they get older. It isn't "advanced webelos" but moms tend to turn it in to that.... I don't want to offend anyone. I have a good female friend who was an asst. scoutmaster and she did a bang up job. This is a broad generalization - that I personally would fit in, and that I have personally seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginszoo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 One of my boys' favorite scoutmasters (one of the ASMs) is female. She's the main First Aid, Basic Scoutcraft, and Riflery resource for the troop. Her ds has been in the troop for 10 years (special needs -- he's 21-22, but mentally/emotionally 10), and so we're always a bit fearful of them moving on. My dd is really underwhelmed with the whole Girl Scout program here and is counting the days until she's 14 so that she can do Venturing instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just to address this specifically... IMHO, this would be the problem with moms in scoutmaster positions (in non-coed troops). My boys don't want a mommy hanging over them at camp. I mean - ok - maybe someone will get hurt - but that hasn't happened since we've been in the troop, and the point is for them to be rough and somewhat unsupervised as they get older. It isn't "advanced webelos" but moms tend to turn it in to that.... I don't want to offend anyone. I have a good female friend who was an asst. scoutmaster and she did a bang up job. This is a broad generalization - that I personally would fit in, and that I have personally seen. :iagree: I am the mother of an Eagle Scout and an 11 year old Scout. Our Scouting program is run through our church, and in the LDS church, once they're out of Cubs, their leaders are only men. I honestly think that's a good thing. They don't need mothers around fretting over every little thing they're doing. They need time to be around others boys and men doing things they WOULDN'T do around women. Moms can be serious fun killers. And honestly, boys just like to spend time around others boys having "who can make the loudest disgusting bodily noise" contests, eating without using napkins, and blowing their noses by blocking one nostril and blowing all their snot onto the ground. Women tend to put adamper on these types of fun...as well as anything that involves a little risk. So, past Cub Scout age, I don't agree with women being troop leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just to address this specifically... IMHO, this would be the problem with moms in scoutmaster positions (in non-coed troops). My boys don't want a mommy hanging over them at camp. I mean - ok - maybe someone will get hurt - but that hasn't happened since we've been in the troop, and the point is for them to be rough and somewhat unsupervised as they get older. It isn't "advanced webelos" but moms tend to turn it in to that.... I don't want to offend anyone. I have a good female friend who was an asst. scoutmaster and she did a bang up job. This is a broad generalization - that I personally would fit in, and that I have personally seen. I know for myself personally in my role with the boys I mention that I am the one squealing slow down. That doesn't mean I am hovering but I am the one that cautions them without outright stepping in and saying no. For example, Last weekend we slept at the major hockey arena in the city with 1000 other scouts and their leaders/parents. We watched the hockey game with the thousands of regular fans, then after the game set up our bedrolls, before all watching a movie on the jumbo tron. Due to a mix up by the organizers of the even the scoutmaster had 1/2 the boys and some parents at one end of our section, at the other end was me, the other scout leader, a mom and the rest of the boys. Some of our boys wanted to go off exploring before the movie started. The mom right away said no way, the other scout leader said he would think about it, I said stay in pairs, don't go outside and remember our section number and sent them off. During the actual game I did not allow them to walk to the bathroom without an adult, but once down to just scouts and leaders (well and the security guards that patrolled all night, and the staff from teh arena) I was fine within those guidelines. So trying to keep the balance between freedom and caution. That night trying to have the boys get ready for bed was challenging, 1 bathroom in our section for the 75 boys getting ready. I escorted them to another area with a bathroom that was virtually deserted so they could get changed. The one scout leader didn't care, the mom again panicked that her boys (11 & 12) were not in the bathroom of that section. I don't want to be like that mom, but I am also not wanting the boys to be reckless. At the same time I was the one with the spare napkins reminding them to wipe the ketchup off their faces and mind their manners (though all of us leaders remind the boys before every outting that their behaviour reflects on the troop as a whole and we do not want people thinking poorly of the troop kwim) The night they played tag on the ice, everyone was laughing including me, but I was also the one literally squealling slow down as they ran past me. (not stopping the game, in fact I was helping the 'it' child cheat by creating a road block for those trying to get away). They thought it was hilarious that I was scared they would slip and fall (which I was, but would not stop them from a game). I was happy that while they did not slow down their speed I noticed them being more mindful of their footwork to avoid sliding and colliding etc) I am in there with the boys, like the night they were practicing knots they tried to see who could actually make their knot work to keep me tied up (none of them did). I don't just hover and never let them be boys. But I wondered if the dynamics are still different when there is a female leader in addition to the men vs just men. I would not want a leader male or female that either allowed outright recklessness, nor one that hovered constantly with no freedoms. I just know it is hard as 1 person to keep that balance so wondered if having co-ed leadership helped with that since both genders have different approaches to things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Do you think having female leadership alongside the males would provide a more even keeled program for the boys with a good balance between supervision/caution and the relaxed/rough play etc? I'm not sure it is a matter of gender since I've never been involved in co-ed scouts. I have, however, seen my group of brownies descend into a pit of b!tchiness within a fortnight of a change of leadership. Personally, I think if grown men need a woman to supervise them while they are supervising a bunch of boys, they need to sit down and take a look at their manhood credentials. I have seen guys (usually older) in that role too - expecting and getting more in the way of decency, manners and gentility. That was my brother's experience too, in a boys only Cub troop. Things have probably settled in the last decade or two, since Scouts Australia opened to allow girls but I've never met a male scout leader who was in favour. (I know they exist, but I haven't met them.) It messed up the dynamics. A pp said it's good for boys to learn women can camp and tie knots. That's true enough, but I wouldn't send my boy to scouts to learn that. He'll get enough Girl Power at home. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm not sure it is a matter of gender since I've never been involved in co-ed scouts. I have, however, seen my group of brownies descend into a pit of b!tchiness within a fortnight of a change of leadership. Personally, I think if grown men need a woman to supervise them while they are supervising a bunch of boys, they need to sit down and take a look at their manhood credentials. That was my brother's experience too, in a boys only Cub troop. Things have probably settled in the last decade or two, since Scouts Australia opened to allow girls but I've never met a male scout leader who was in favour. (I know they exist, but I haven't met them.) It messed up the dynamics. A pp said it's good for boys to learn women can camp and tie knots. That's true enough, but I wouldn't send my boy to scouts to learn that. He'll get enough Girl Power at home. Rosie I was not suggesting that men needed women to supervise them. Maybe I am not wording things right. I was jsut musing outloud about the differencesin how men and women interact with kids and the benefits of having both as leaders in a group. Many many many scout troops are male only leadership and do great, my dad ran one as did my brother, I am not saying they can't do an absolutely fabulous job of it. I was just pondering the differences between the troop I help lead, and those that have a male only leadership. I absolutely do NOT think the male leaders need a woman in supervising them and how they lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Forgive me if this is a bit rambling, it sort of how my thoughts are flowing today. Here in Canada boy scouts is actually co-ed so while we currently have no girls registered we could, as well female leadership is no problem. Is this the case in the US? The post about the goings on in some scout troops had me thinking about the troop my boys are in and my beaver colony. I am a beaver scout leader so *my* boys are 5-6 years old, own beaver meeting runs at the same time as the cub scouts and scouts do but ends 30 minutes sooner, so after my beavers leave I help out with the bigger boys. As it is our scoutmaster will not put up with the kind of carp listed in that other post, but really there is very little of it anyway. Having myself there and the male leaders gives a different dynamic. The boys have the male leaders that being male tend to give the boys more leeway than a woman would (like in most families the dads are that way), and then they have me, the resident mom. I am the one that is squealing "slow down"(to which they laugh hysterically, I think they enjoy making me scared ;) I am the one that is carrying around extra napkins at events and reminding them to wipe their faces and mind their manners. I am the one they come to when hurt or upset. (In fact my beavers and several of the sub scouts are upset with me right now because I am not attending camp this weekend). The bigger boys would never dream of saying dirty things around me the way they would around just the boys, not because I am a tough disciplinarian but because the thought of saying stuff like that around a "mom" is too embarassing to them to do so. I think our troop has a good balance like a family does, of the rough and tumble the men bring, with the caution, and nuture that I as a female bring. It made me start wondering if it is just our particular troop and the group of boys that we currently have, or if there is really something to having at least 1 female leader to a troop and whether or not troop in the US permit female leadership. Do you think having female leadership alongside the males would provide a more even keeled program for the boys with a good balance between supervision/caution and the relaxed/rough play etc? If I were you, I wouldn't worry about comparisons to the US model. IMO, our society has always been far less balanced about the sexes (due to Puritanical and also secular, Masonic forefathers) than Canada's perspective (drawing more from the British, with its queens and Celtic old religions that included feminine elements). We have always glorified the masculine, and that's probably why we have a, such a long history of violence and war, and b, such a divided society. When you consistently degrade or undermine one half of your populace, it does interesting things to your national psyche. So, I think that yes, just as a child gains from the push-pull model of two parents, one male, and one female, it makes total sense that your troop would have both male and female leadership. A more balanced leadership leads to more balanced and centered young followers. All of one and none of the other leads to extremes. Finally, and this is my naughty brain at work, but...how could you have a beaver club and no woman? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Women are welcome in leadership positions in Boy Scouts. I've been a registered leader for years. My dh and I have observed that the boys tend to behave much better when there are women leaders. I and the other women leaders in our Cub Scout pack tend to be less lenient that the men and I've seen the same results with the older boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Many many many scout troops are male only leadership and do great, my dad ran one as did my brother, I am not saying they can't do an absolutely fabulous job of it. I was just pondering the differences between the troop I help lead, and those that have a male only leadership. I absolutely do NOT think the male leaders need a woman in supervising them and how they lead. Of course not, but does it happen anyway? I wonder if having women around might prevent the men doing fabulously, just as having a male enter a group of females changes the dynamic. "Mind your manners" from a man in a male only group is going to hold different weight to "Mind your manners" from a mum. (My brother's opinion was all the boys had a mum and didn't need any more! :p) Not that I have a dog in this fight. My kids don't do scouts and if they did, it wouldn't be in North America, would it? :tongue_smilie: Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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