Please help me understand (adoption fees)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Why is it that adoption fees, for private adoption through an agency, are so incredibly high? I simply do not understand but would like to (honestly).

 

There is a mother looking to place her baby in a loving family.

She is very specific about what she wants in that family and about wanting a semi-open adoption.

Her specifics narrow the playing field CONSIDERABLY, like more than I have ever heard of a birthmom asking.

Some families have replied to the notification; but no family is "suitable" because they don't have that kind of money.

 

Honestly, *I* would be much less likely to use an agency as a birthmom just because *I* would not want MONEY to be the first weeding out factor.

Edited February 24, 2012 by 2J5M9K

[DawnM]

I can only answer from our experience, but the fees from our agency were listed as:

 

1. Homestudy (huge chunk) which included the Social worker coming to our home for about 6 hours total, but then another 10 hours or so doing all of the write up.

 

2. Fees to pay for people to work in the office and do all the write ups, calls, matching of children to parents, etc....

 

3. Attorney fees to do all of the legal requirements.

 

4. Travel fees if applicable

 

It just adds up.

[michelle l]

It's early, and I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so I'll give this a go but it might not be pretty!;) You might be asking in response to the other thread about fees. If not, you can find it here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350341 I responded at the end.

 

On a practical side, there are homestudies and legal procedures which people need to be paid for. Additionally, sometimes in domestic adoptions there the prospective adoptive parents pay a fee that goes into a pool which the agency will use to assist moms if needed rather than the PAparents paying "birthmother expenses" directly. In intercountry adoption, some of the money may go toward the child's care, or at least into a fund for that purpose if not directly to the care of that particular child. That said though, the truth is that adoption is also an industry. People are making money off parents in crisis, and thier children, and have been at least sinse the 1940's. It breaks my heart to say so, (because of my political leanings) but it is capitalism at its worst.

 

Mirah Riben's book "The Stork Market: America's Mulit-Billion Unregulated Adoption Industry" was published 2007. I havn't read it yet, but know Mirah through other venues. It would be an eye-opening and informative read. She also blogs about family preservation here: http://familypreservation.blogspot.com/ Be warned that she can be somewhat abrasive (at least to this mid-westerner), but when I take her story as a mom of the Baby Scoop Era into account, I am able to read some of her harsher responses in terms that allow for a bit more grace. She has been wounded in ways I will never know, and I believe in what she is fighting for.

 

As I said in the other post, Keven at Land of Gazillion Adoptees has been done several posts lately about money. Here is a

he recently made. Kevin is a Korean adoptee, but the other interesting thing is that he spent time working within the industry for one of the big agencies and was at one time a huge adoption advocate. (One side note - Spencer Chapin is in included in his video, but at least on the domestic side is one of the more ethical agencies out there) Anyway, you can search his site for posts on fees or money. Be forwarned that he has kind of snarky sense of humor. ;) I think this is fairly typical in the land of adoptee-bloggers. Sometimes we have to laugh and snark it up a bit because the need for reform is so evident and the battle for it is so daunting.

 

Another FABULOUS resource for you would be David and Desiree Smolin's blog, Fleas Biting. They are adoptive parents whose daughters were adopted from India without the consent of their original family.:crying: The Smolin's have been extremely candid about their experiences and are now passionate about shedding light on curroption within the adoption industry. They are huge advocates for change. I think they are future heros of the reform movement. David is a Professor of Law and Stanford, and shares his more academic writings here . They are thorough and very much worth reading for those who are interested in digging deeply. Again, there is a search feature on their blog.

 

Amanda at The Declassified Adoptee has written on money in adoption several times. Her blog has a search box.

 

Claude has written about it at Musings of the Lame. Search box there too.:)

 

Let's see....other resources

 

Parents for Ethical Adoption Reform (PEAR)

 

Ethica

 

Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute Here is one of their papers on money in adoption. Their search feature is at the top right.)

 

American Adoption Congress This is a link to their Best Practices section. The first article, Who Cares if People are Exploited by Adoption is quite good.

 

 

There are many more, this is just a handful to get you started. Short answer though is that large amounts of money change hands because 1)the industry is unregulated, and 2) people are willing to pay it. Recognize also that adoption agencies have marketing departments. They market to moms who may be in situations that cause uncertainty. They market to couples who long for children. They market to the church and promote adoption as ministry. People gobble it up, but it is marketing, plain and simple. While there IS some genuine need for adoptive families, the truth is that in domestic adoption there are simply not enough babies to go around. Internationally, the statistics on "orphans" are quite scewed when we consider the high percentage of children who actually have at least one living parent. Adoptions of minority children can cost less. It might be called "special needs", but in practical terms it means there is less demand. And that's sad too, because it's really one more indication that adults are using adoption to get what they want, rather than to truly serve the needs of children. Which brings us back to why so much money changes hands....

Edited February 24, 2012 by michelle l

[In2why]

Because of supply and demand. We adopted in 2003. We adopted a healthy, biracial newborn through a non profit agency in our state, and it took less than a year. Our entire cost was less than 2 thousand dollars. We paid 1025.00 for the homestudy. 40.00 for our background checks. 350.00 for legal fees and another 50.00 for the birth certificate. Our only other costs were gas to and from the agency, and an overnight trip when we went to meet our son and bring him home. (It was 5 hours away) That is it. Now the same agency has become for profit, and has a sliding scale based on income. They require a deposit of over 10 thousand dollars before even meeting prospective adoptive parents.

I will say that if we were willing to pay the prospective birth moms expenses while she was pregnant, then the fees would have been higher, and the agency would have arranged those payments. We were not willing, since those fees are not recoverable if the Mom decides to parent, and it personally feels like a businesses arrangement rather than adoption....to me, not judging others. So anyway, I don't understand why it cost so much, other than people will pay it, so they charge what they can get. Bureaucracy isn't cheap.

[Murmer]

Pp said some of it but also good agencies use the money to counsel any and all pregnant women who are considering placing regardless of if the woman does follow through with an adoption plan. It can be expensive but personally I prefer agencies that do that because I know a woman who has placed had a full range of counseling about her choices and really wants to place. Also good agencies will counsel a birth mother for as long as she wants after placement even years and the potential adoptive families pay for that up front. Adoption is expensive but good agencies roll fees until an adoption takes place so if a family has a failed placement aren't stuck with the fees from that and then trying again....that said not all agencies roll so some of the high fees you hear are families with multiple failed placements where they paid expensies per placement and lost it all and still don't have a baby.

 

Also for reference ivf is typically 5,000 to 10,000 plus including meds to try for a baby and there are no guarantees for that either. And for some of us even ivf would require a medical miracle to have a baby.

[In2why]

My other question about some of those fees are how they are subsidized. For example, I can understand paying medical fees, but many times the prospective birth mom has private insurance, or Medicaid, so even if those fees are rolled in, they don't actually pay medical bills. I don't know, there just seem to be the possibility of ethical problems when paying expenses not related to childbearing come into the picture. I would never want a mother to decide not to parent because she felt she owed someone a child, and I would never want to feel like I was owed a child, because I paid the bills. It is a blurry area.

[ZooRho]

I can only answer from our experience, but the fees from our agency were listed as:

 

1. Homestudy (huge chunk) which included the Social worker coming to our home for about 6 hours total, but then another 10 hours or so doing all of the write up.

 

2. Fees to pay for people to work in the office and do all the write ups, calls, matching of children to parents, etc....

 

3. Attorney fees to do all of the legal requirements.

 

4. Travel fees if applicable

 

It just adds up.

 

I think others are saying it too. plus travel time for the workers. vehicles.

our agency was in one city but the bm was in another so it was overnight travel to go see her for counseling and then for the baby when he was born.

 

Court time for the reliquishments, finding birthfathers, foster families for the children who are waiting the adoptive parents arrivals, or waiting for the reliquishments to be signed, clothing for the babies, formula, medical care, and so much of that cost may go for a child actually adopted and then the same amount of money may go for a baby that is not adopted, the birthmom changes her mind but isn't required to repay the money.

[Guest davdes5]

Hi. I just joined this forum. I'm Desiree Smolin one of the people whom Michelle mentioned in her post and whose blog Fleasbiting, was mentioned. I found out about this conversation through tracing a referring link through a statcounter back to here. Ordinarily, I wouldn't have bothered to pay attention, but I found the conversation interesting AND I too am a homeschooling mom who's read the Well-Trained Mind. While I can't say we exactly follow a classical education model to the letter or anything like that, we do incorporate many classical education ideas into our program. I've been homeschooling a long time. My eldest son was homeschooled from Kindergarten through high school graduation. he is 26 and in graduate school; he was a national merit scholar and earned a bachelor's degree with honors in "Fundamentals," one of THE original classical education degrees at the University of Chicago. Another son is also a National Merit Scholar and is a Classics Major in the Honors program at the a local libreal arts college. Another son was a National Merit Commended student and is on scholarship in engineering. Anyway, at present I have a 7 year old daughter in 1st grade and a 15 year old son in 10th grade whom I am homeschooling.

 

But I am writing because of what I read about adoption here. Pam, I would very seriously urge the young woman you mentioned to reconsider keeping her baby if it is at all possible. I know sooooo... many moms who wish they had done so. And so many adoptees who wish their moms had kept them. Adoption is a permanent lifelong solution to a temporary problem. Temporary problems can be overcome. But the issues that come with separation of mother and child are so much deeper.

 

As for the fees involved in adoption.....I could write a book... There is really NO good reason for them. The bottom line is that adoption is a business. The adoption industry is in the business of supplying children to people who want to parent. I know that sounds stark and with everything you've heard all your life it doesn't necessarily ring true. But it is so. Research the issues. Read the sites and you will find the evidence to back up the statement. 12 years ago my husband and I believed all the things that most people believe about adoption. Our journey has been one from naive belief to sad understanding.

 

The history of adoption, if you read about it, is enlightening. Adoption as we conceive of it didn't even really exist until very recently. 100 years ago, mothers and babies were believed to belong together. And when you unpack the statements floating about our culture about the need for adoption--statements like the fact that there are 147 million orphans--you see that the truth is something other than we are being led to believe. The statistic includes single orphans--children who are living with single parents and children who are being cared for by family members. In other words, children who are NOT orphans as we usually think of them. The vast majority of these children are loved and wanted and cared for children. Most of the remaining "orphans" are older children, not the healthy young children and babies that most people want to adopt and that are being adopted out.

 

Things are NOT what they seem when it comes to adoption. There are more and more of us coming together to bring out the real truth. Adult adoptees, mothers who lost their children to adoption, and adoptive parents who found that they've adopted children who were not really orphans at all. The day of reckoning for the adoption industry is coming. I would just urge everyone to educate themselves in the meantime. And to urge mothers to consider keeping their children. Communities should come together to help support single moms. I've seen it done. It can work.

 

Anyway, I look forward to interacting with you all on both homeschooling and adoption related issues.

 

Desiree

[Impish]

I just wanted to give a different perspective on the adoption triad.

 

I'm married to an adoptee.

 

Despite the fact that his amom is a nut bunny, Wolf is grateful to have been adopted.

 

His bmom was an alcoholic/addict. 6 of the 7 sibs we know of have FASD to varying degrees, including Wolf.

 

His birth FOO is riddled w/addiction issues and criminal activity.

 

Two of his younger brothers were left w/their mom for most of their growing up years, and both have been in jail, battled serious addiction issues...the list goes on.

 

One has recently been successful in his battle w/addiction and is sober.

 

Last we heard, the other was in jail.

 

Sometimes, adoption truly is in the best interest of the child.

[SKL]

Why will some people pay more for a car than others pay for a house?

 

Why will some people pay more for tuition than others pay to feed and clothe their entire families?

 

My adoptions were expensive because I'm a single mom and I didn't want to deal with long waits or a lot of strings attached.

 

The less expensive adoptions are cheaper partly because the government or a charity/church covers some of the costs. So the fees paid by the adopting parents don't reflect all of the costs.

 

The supply-demand aspect is true also, but it isn't the whole story.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thanks for the answers.

 

Like I said, I just wouldn't want the weeding out factor to be money.

And I wouldn't want my child to miss out on a great home because of money.

Hopefully, there is a person who can both be what the birthmom wants

for her baby as well as have the money to get this child.

[SKL]

Adult adoptees, mothers who lost their children to adoption, and adoptive parents who found that they've adopted children who were not really orphans at all.

 

I've seen this angle before, and while I'm sure it's true in some situations, some groups have blown it out of proportion. Basically there are individuals who made a free choice to relinquish their children for adoption, regretted it later, and made an elaborate effort to blame others for their decision. Some have banded together to fight against the adoption industry. Not sure if Desiree is connected with that movement or not.

 

I agree that as long as the mother is capable of nurturing her child in a healthy way, it's best to keep birth mom and baby together. However, there are people who do not want to parent, or who really cannot do so. I wish people didn't have to be so black and white (and sometimes downright mean) about this topic.

[ZooRho]

I've seen this angle before, and while I'm sure it's true in some situations, some groups have blown it out of proportion. Basically there are individuals who made a free choice to relinquish their children for adoption, regretted it later, and made an elaborate effort to blame others for their decision. Some have banded together to fight against the adoption industry. Not sure if Desiree is connected with that movement or not.

 

I agree that as long as the mother is capable of nurturing her child in a healthy way, it's best to keep birth mom and baby together. However, there are people who do not want to parent, or who really cannot do so. I wish people didn't have to be so black and white (and sometimes downright mean) about this topic.

 

Thanks as an adoptive mom, I'm thankful someone else said what I was feeling.

 

I'm thankful that the birthmoms choose life and that they then also choose adoption for my boys. I wouldn't be a mom other wise.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I will say, though it was probably obvious, that we meet the first requirements of this mother. I don't know that she would choose us. But she wanted certain things that we fit and that aren't going to be easy to find. But the fees are just out of reach. What *if* we were an ideal match for THIS mother and child?

 

And really? I remember being a young girl looking at profiles and letters from families. Seriously, it is crazy and from what I've read online, that hasn't changed in the last two decades. But as the mother of this child? I wanted the PERFECT situation, as close as I could get, for my baby! Money is a very small piece of what I think children need and should have. What awesome parents would I not even have seen just because they didn't have the money to pay all those fees?

[Impish]

The whole private adoption situation needs to be revamped, badly.

 

The paying expenses for the expectant mom for one. I've heard of too many families that spent thousands upon thousands...and mom changed her mind.

 

Totally her choice, don't get me wrong...but then the prospective parents have lost that money, and there's nothing they can do. There have even been cases where the expectant parent admitted she had no intention of following through on the adoption!

 

To me, that's just so wrong. Since the baby isn't 'theirs' until all papers are signed, and a waiting period is passed, why should they be paying health care, living expenses, etc?

 

That's just *one* of the things wrong, imo.