sahm99 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I am wondering what other subjects/resources need to be added to TOG at the middle school level - specifically in the LA department. For a middle schooler working through TOG Dialectic (7th/8th grade) and doing the writing assignments (with WA) diligently, what will be missing? Grammar? Vocabularly? Anything else? What about a student doing Latin, and thus having grammar and vocabulary/root work "integrated"...? Could one get away with "just doing TOG" (plus, obviously Math, Science, Foreign Languages, ...):confused: Thank you for sharing your thoughts!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvnlattes Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 We also add spelling. If you're using Year 1 or Year 2 (the only years I'm familiar with) you could use the LG and UG vocabulary word lists from TOG since they correspond with what you're learning in history. Some of the words would be too simplistic but others would most likely be new. The first year my oldest son took Latin we didn't do grammar because I had heard you do so much grammar in Latin you don't really need it. I did not find this to be true. Yes, you work with grammar but you are not learning any new concepts. We're using AG this year even though my son is continuing in Latin. It has been a good decision for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I am wondering what other subjects/resources need to be added to TOG at the middle school level - specifically in the LA department. For a middle schooler working through TOG Dialectic (7th/8th grade) and doing the writing assignments (with WA) diligently, what will be missing? Grammar? Vocabularly? Anything else? What about a student doing Latin, and thus having grammar and vocabulary/root work "integrated"...? Could one get away with "just doing TOG" (plus, obviously Math, Science, Foreign Languages, ...):confused: Thank you for sharing your thoughts!!! TOG is a wonderful curriculum, but it doesn't cover everything. At this level your student(s) will learn history (including art & church history), philosophy & worldview, geography, literature and writing - if you choose to use the WA program. You will need to provide all other subjects that you want to cover. I have found that the vocabulary with TOG is great, but it applies to history, geography and culture rather than traditional vocabulary that dialectic students should also be learning. Therefore, I have added Vocabulary from Classical Roots for my own dd. We have also added Spelling Power because TOG does not cover spelling at all. (I'm not suggesting you use the same spelling and vocabulary we have used, just sharing our choices for these needs.) In addition to this, I believe that dialectic students really should be studying grammar. We have used R&S for this and are currently using ALL. Although we have studied Latin in the past and are now learning French, English grammar is a critical component in learning to write well and master the English language. Obviously, TOG does not include grammar, so you will need to supplement. I honestly don't think that the grammar included with foreign language (including Latin grammar) is enough for a student at this stage. It is helpful, but not the full deal. Ideally, it should dovetail into English grammar studies. (I seem to remember that LFC was designed to complement Shurley grammar in this way.) We have used TOG's WA, and in my opinion, it was good - especially if you listen to Marcia Sommerville's audio lectures on writing and use the WA manual. I found that this method could easily be implemented in a similar way to TWTM's way of teaching writing across curriculums. You could actually read TWTM and the TOG writing instructions and customize it according to your own goals and needs. We did this for a couple of years, but then decided to move over to WWS, and since my dd really loves it this is where we'll stay. I will say though, that if we weren't doing WWS, we would definitely be using TOG's writing program. There are a lot of opinions about TOG's writing on this board, so you'll find that many will disagree and many will agree with this method. Bottom line is that you will have to try it out for yourself and see if it works best for your student(s). Hope this helps! :) Blessings, Lucinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm going to add logic, and Figuratively Speaking. I am not using WA, but haven't decided what writing to add, besides R&S Grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 We add R&S English, Latin, Math, Science, and Logic. I like to use IEW for writing (which can also double as a vocabulary program if you use the theme books) just because I am so writing phobic and needed something more concrete. I'll probably add in some bits and pieces of the writing program when I like the selection. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrrl Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I am in agreement with the above posters. We'll be doing a "language mechanics" type credit, consisting of Analytical Grammar, Spelling Workout, and Vocabulary from Classical Roots (Each child is on a different level of these) We'll also add Math, Sci, and a foreign language (undecided where we are going with that one; mom wants latin, kids want Spanish). For my rising high school kids (one in Dialectic, one in Rhetoric) we'll do a health and PE credit in the summer so that we are not overburdened time-wise in the fall. I really want to continue with Logic, but it will depend on how much time we take for TOG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 :iagree: With all the above. We add: R&S Spelling and/or Vocabulary Penmanship Foreign Langauges Math Science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 My son is doing the dialectic history, literature and Christian history. We use WWE and FLL for grammar (though when that runs out I'm not sure what we will use). He has just transitioned into D level this year (he is 10) and so next year I plan to add a vocabulary program with greek / latin root study, logic, and Latin, though I may wait one more year for that, as he is already doing French. I will also add science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 :iagree: with the above posters. We have been using IEW for writing, but I just bought WA, and will switch next year. We alternate Wordly Wise for vocabulary and CLE for "Language Arts." CLE LA covers spelling, grammar, punctuation and a bit of writing. After every 3 (or so) LA books, we take a week to do a WW chapter. We also add math and science and foreign language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I add math, science, foreign language, critical thinking/logic, modern geography, vocabulary, grammar, substitute writing and tinker with literature. If you used all that TOG offered I think you could add only math and science. Foreign language would be at your discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrrl Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I add math, science, foreign language, critical thinking/logic, modern geography, vocabulary, grammar, substitute writing and tinker with literature. If you used all that TOG offered I think you could add only math and science. Foreign language would be at your discretion. I have read that TOG offers modern geography in year 4- is that true? We are shamefully bad at modern geography- I have to reference an ancient civilization for them to know where the news is happening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I have read that TOG offers modern geography in year 4- is that true? We are shamefully bad at modern geography- I have to reference an ancient civilization for them to know where the news is happening! It would be modern simply because the time period covered by Year 4 includes the 20th century and early 21st. I wanted something more so we have added other geography programs for many years. Geographical knowledge was important to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrrl Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It would be modern simply because the time period covered by Year 4 includes the 20th century and early 21st. I wanted something more so we have added other geography programs for many years. Geographical knowledge was important to us. Thanks! That makes total sense. What program do you use, may I ask? I would love to add geography, but also want to be careful of overloading the schedule (I have one in rhetoric level this year and I am a little nervous!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks! That makes total sense. What program do you use, may I ask? I would love to add geography, but also want to be careful of overloading the schedule (I have one in rhetoric level this year and I am a little nervous!). Well, I did start with younger kids so this list may include materials to "young" for your kids. We have worked through the National Geographic Map Essentials courses, the Trail Guide to World Geography, and Trail Guide to US Geography, and are currently in Runkle's World Physical Geography (to coincide with an Earth Studies course in science). We also have created work using maps, blank maps, lists of countries, states, capitals, etc. We also play geography games (board and online) as well as verbal games. I am considering Human Geography as a high school course. I will have a Rhetoric student in the fall and am looking at Human Geography. I will probably also go back to home created work using blank maps and lists. For example I saw one the other day where you had to learn the country, capital, major river and water system it emptied into. We've also worked with a continent at a time learning countries, capitals, etc. We will probably move on to major land features in another round. Keep in mind that I keep these to a minimum of 10-15 minutes a day. Kind of like math facts for geography. Perhaps a book like Daily Warm-ups Geography might help or try http://www.zdaily.com/geography.shtml If you haven't covered any of this before...you could try visiting a local teacher store or the library and see if they have any of the Evan-Moore Daily Geography Practice books-could you try to use some of their questions of concepts at a higher level to suit your older kids. I also recommend hanging maps some where in the house. There are lots of them out there to choose from. I picked one very similar to these: http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/maps/wall-maps/world-maps/world-political-map-%28earth-toned%29%2C-enlarged-and-laminated one for world and one for US. Aside from being a quality map-the colors looked better in the house. Sometimes large items like this get hung in more public spaces. We also have large laminated blank maps for drawing on with dry erase markers (from the local teacher store). They help too. One of my younger kids is beginning to do map and compass work, orienteering, geocaching and the like through Boy Scouts. That helps too. Hope all of this helps a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrrl Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well, I did start with younger kids so this list may include materials to "young" for your kids. We have worked through the National Geographic Map Essentials courses, the Trail Guide to World Geography, and Trail Guide to US Geography, and are currently in Runkle's World Physical Geography (to coincide with an Earth Studies course in science). We also have created work using maps, blank maps, lists of countries, states, capitals, etc. We also play geography games (board and online) as well as verbal games. I am considering Human Geography as a high school course. I will have a Rhetoric student in the fall and am looking at Human Geography. I will probably also go back to home created work using blank maps and lists. For example I saw one the other day where you had to learn the country, capital, major river and water system it emptied into. We've also worked with a continent at a time learning countries, capitals, etc. We will probably move on to major land features in another round. Keep in mind that I keep these to a minimum of 10-15 minutes a day. Kind of like math facts for geography. Perhaps a book like Daily Warm-ups Geography might help or try http://www.zdaily.com/geography.shtml If you haven't covered any of this before...you could try visiting a local teacher store or the library and see if they have any of the Evan-Moore Daily Geography Practice books-could you try to use some of their questions of concepts at a higher level to suit your older kids. I also recommend hanging maps some where in the house. There are lots of them out there to choose from. I picked one very similar to these: http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/maps/wall-maps/world-maps/world-political-map-%28earth-toned%29%2C-enlarged-and-laminated one for world and one for US. Aside from being a quality map-the colors looked better in the house. Sometimes large items like this get hung in more public spaces. We also have large laminated blank maps for drawing on with dry erase markers (from the local teacher store). They help too. One of my younger kids is beginning to do map and compass work, orienteering, geocaching and the like through Boy Scouts. That helps too. Hope all of this helps a little. Fantastic! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Fantastic! Thank you! You're welcome. Hope some of it proves helpful or leads you to the right materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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