Help me choose! Online writing...

[radiobrain]

OK, I have 2 very obnoxious reluctant writers. They are great when they do it, but it is like pulling teeth and is the bane of my existence.

 

So... I will be enrolling in an online writing course tomorrow (MONDAY), and I would like to poll you guys. These are the 2 choices, there are no other options. I would appreciate it if you would look over what these 2 classes focus on, and see which one you think would be best.

 

1. Powerful Paragraphs

http://www.time4writing.com/middle-school/paragraph-writing/

 

2. Writing Enhancement

http://www.time4writing.com/middle-school/writing-enhancement/

 

My kids are 11 & 13. Have excellent vocabularies and grasp of grammar, etc. They get very little practice utilizing (thus, cementing) this knowledge as they will not write and it becomes a giant painful chore. They are cool with me farming this out.

 

Thanks in advance!!! :D

[radiobrain]

Oh, come on guys! Please??? Pretty please?:o

[PeterPan]

No help, but a bump and sympathy? :)

[radiobrain]

No help, but a bump and sympathy? :)

 

THANKS! ;) but, you could read the descriptions and give me an opinion, LOL. I am not asking for anyone who has taken these classes to chime in. I just want an opinion of which I should take based on supposed content.

 

Husband and I have made our decision, yet I still need to seek advice of the hive.

 

Luckily, they both have a 2 week change class/refund thing-a-ma-doodle.

Edited February 5, 2012 by radiobrain

[radiobrain]

:smilielol5: I looked at the poll and it is 50/50!

 

:banghead::rolleyes:

[Matryoshka]

Just curious, why these two particular courses?

 

I ask because I have my own fairly reluctant 11yo writer. I signed her up for a creative writing class with a coop, but that was mostly out of desperation to be able to say she was writing *something*. Her grammar and mechanics are good. She wrote nice complex sentences with WWE, but getting her to do that in something she writes independently? Not unless I sit on her. I want someone else to sit on her. :lol:

 

I voted for the paragraph class, partly because that's the one I think I'd enroll mine in. In fact, maybe it's not a bad idea. :D What are the structure of these classes? How is the instruction managed? Is there a live teacher? How are the assignments graded?

 

My older two (13yo) have been doing great with WriteGuide, but they have more of a foundation. I don't think dd11 is quite ready for that yet. I'd really like to find a way to get her that foundation without one or both of us in tears or banging a head against a wall. :glare:

[PeterPan]

THANKS! ;) but, you could read the descriptions and give me an opinion, LOL. I am not asking for anyone who has taken these classes to chime in.

 

Well personally, I'd do neither. I'd take articles from Muse magazine or something else your kids enjoy, make graphic organizers to fit the content (use a whiteboard), and skip doing anything else. If they could do the writing, they would. If what they need is more understanding of the structure, an online class won't give it to them. At least in my short experience, even popular teachers don't always understand *why* kids don't like writing or what the mental glitch is.

 

So no, I'd do neither. Do graphic organizers, let things click, and try again in a year.

[Tranquility7]

I voted for the paragraph class since the other seems too basic based on what you said about your DCs.

 

You might also consider this (for next year if not this) -

http://www.livingtheanswer.org/classes/essays_sem.php

I just read a nice review of it here by a hs mom who has two reluctant writers enrolled in it. Looks very different from the two you are considering, since it also includes some invention and style instruction, rather than focusing solely on grammar and structure.

[PeterPan]

I voted for the paragraph class since the other seems too basic based on what you said about your DCs.

 

You might also consider this (for next year if not this) -

http://www.livingtheanswer.org/classes/essays_sem.php

I just read a nice review of it here by a hs mom who has two reluctant writers enrolled in it. Looks very different from the two you are considering, since it also includes some invention and style instruction, rather than focusing solely on grammar and structure.

 

Blech, did you go to their home page and see the passive construction in the first sentence. Not adequate for college prep, not even they don't catch basics like that. (Yes, I'm being brutal.)

[Matryoshka]

You might also consider this (for next year if not this) -

http://www.livingtheanswer.org/classes/essays_sem.php

I just read a nice review of it here by a hs mom who has two reluctant writers enrolled in it. Looks very different from the two you are considering, since it also includes some invention and style instruction, rather than focusing solely on grammar and structure.

 

I like the looks of that class - one question I have is does it have some kind of pervasive religious element? I can't imagine how you'd weave that into a how-to-write-an-essay class, but the overall tone of the website is a bit heavy-handed on that front.

[radiobrain]

I like the looks of that class - one question I have is does it have some kind of pervasive religious element? I can't imagine how you'd weave that into a how-to-write-an-essay class, but the overall tone of the website is a bit heavy-handed on that front.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I will still put it in my hopper for next year, or "things to consider".

 

BTW, E.... i have done everything I can do right now. I need to just do one of these and see how it goes. It either succeeds, fails or does nothing. I need someone else to do this for a while, KWIM? I know that I can come up with a million better things than this, but it doesn't matter if my kids and I are on different wave lengths right now. Lots of side issues. None of which are relevant.

 

So, I am going with the paragraph one, as they will either be insulted by the first one, or it will be way too easy.

 

Thanks everyone!

[radiobrain]

Just curious, why these two particular courses?

 

I ask because I have my own fairly reluctant 11yo writer. I signed her up for a creative writing class with a coop, but that was mostly out of desperation to be able to say she was writing *something*. Her grammar and mechanics are good. She wrote nice complex sentences with WWE, but getting her to do that in something she writes independently? Not unless I sit on her. I want someone else to sit on her. :lol:

 

I voted for the paragraph class, partly because that's the one I think I'd enroll mine in. In fact, maybe it's not a bad idea. :D What are the structure of these classes? How is the instruction managed? Is there a live teacher? How are the assignments graded?

 

My older two (13yo) have been doing great with WriteGuide, but they have more of a foundation. I don't think dd11 is quite ready for that yet. I'd really like to find a way to get her that foundation without one or both of us in tears or banging a head against a wall. :glare:

 

No particular reason. They are short, not insanely expensive and are not going to be too filled with an intense of content or work so they can get their feet wet. I have no grand illusions about it. Just a tool. :D

[Matryoshka]

No particular reason. They are short, not insanely expensive and are not going to be too filled with an intense of content or work so they can get their feet wet. I have no grand illusions about it. Just a tool. :D

 

These are the same things that were making me think I could even add this to the creative writing class I just signed her up for (for pretty much the exact same reasons you're looking at these - someone else needs to drive the writing bus for a bit. And it's not too much if it doesn't work (coop was $75)

 

And for $99 and not too much work, maybe I could layer this on top... I think the CW class will be "lite". I really want more expository than creative writing right now, but any writing is a step up from where we are at the moment...

[JenninMN]

I would go with Powerful Paragraphs. Writing Enhancement seems to basic given your description of where they are at writing-wise. I did the Grammar, Usage & Mechanics high school course for my oldest several years ago. It was too basic for him, however it did increase his confidence.

[PeterPan]

Well when you're done, tell us how it turned out! You never know, it could be great. And if nothing else, it's a break and a learning experience.

[Tranquility7]

I voted for the paragraph class since the other seems too basic based on what you said about your DCs.

 

You might also consider this (for next year if not this) -

http://www.livingtheanswer.org/classes/essays_sem.php

I just read a nice review of it here by a hs mom who has two reluctant writers enrolled in it. Looks very different from the two you are considering, since it also includes some invention and style instruction, rather than focusing solely on grammar and structure.

 

I like the looks of that class - one question I have is does it have some kind of pervasive religious element? I can't imagine how you'd weave that into a how-to-write-an-essay class, but the overall tone of the website is a bit heavy-handed on that front.

 

Not sure, but I doubt it in the essay classes. The teacher obviously is a Christian and some of the classes are directly teaching about Christian worldview and such... but I'd think the essay class would not have a "religious element". But probably best to write the teacher and inquire, if you are considering it.

[radiobrain]

These are the same things that were making me think I could even add this to the creative writing class I just signed her up for (for pretty much the exact same reasons you're looking at these - someone else needs to drive the writing bus for a bit. And it's not too much if it doesn't work (coop was $75)

 

And for $99 and not too much work, maybe I could layer this on top... I think the CW class will be "lite". I really want more expository than creative writing right now, but any writing is a step up from where we are at the moment...

 

Don't you dare do it until I have a chance to see what it is really all about. ;)

[Matryoshka]

Don't you dare do it until I have a chance to see what it is really all about. ;)

 

Hehe. I'd already told her we were going to do the second half of Paragraph Town (Lessons 11-20) alongside the CW course, which actually purports to cover similar material. She loves reading about the ducks, but getting her to do the actual assignments (at least doing them well and not just slapping words on paper) is a bit painful. I think I'll ask her which she'd rather do - PTown with me or a Paragraph course online...

[Guest David Vogel]

I like the looks of that class - one question I have is does it have some kind of pervasive religious element? I can't imagine how you'd weave that into a how-to-write-an-essay class, but the overall tone of the website is a bit heavy-handed on that front.

 

I'm actually the teacher for this class. Got an email that mentioned the thread, so I figured I'd pop over here and answer any questions. My organization started out five years ago focused on Christian worldview-type classes--hence the name and the overall feel of the website. Since then I've branched out into lots of other areas, including writing.

 

When you hire me to teach writing, I'm teaching writing, not Christian anything. In that particular class I can't think of anything that would mark it as distinctively Christian. I'm certainly not going to mark a student down for offering a non-Christian opinion... though I'll definitely do so if it's a poorly-written non-Christian opinion. :glare:

[Matryoshka]

I'm actually the teacher for this class. Got an email that mentioned the thread, so I figured I'd pop over here and answer any questions. My organization started out five years ago focused on Christian worldview-type classes--hence the name and the overall feel of the website. Since then I've branched out into lots of other areas, including writing.

 

When you hire me to teach writing, I'm teaching writing, not Christian anything. In that particular class I can't think of anything that would mark it as distinctively Christian. I'm certainly not going to mark a student down for offering a non-Christian opinion... though I'll definitely do so if it's a poorly-written non-Christian opinion. :glare:

 

Thank you very much for the response! That was exactly what I was hoping to hear!

[PentecostalMom]

I voted for the paragraph class since the other seems too basic based on what you said about your DCs.

 

:iagree:

[Beth in SW WA]

I'm actually the teacher for this class. Got an email that mentioned the thread, so I figured I'd pop over here and answer any questions. My organization started out five years ago focused on Christian worldview-type classes--hence the name and the overall feel of the website. Since then I've branched out into lots of other areas, including writing.

 

When you hire me to teach writing, I'm teaching writing, not Christian anything. In that particular class I can't think of anything that would mark it as distinctively Christian. I'm certainly not going to mark a student down for offering a non-Christian opinion... though I'll definitely do so if it's a poorly-written non-Christian opinion. :glare:

 

:lurk5:

[Create Your Ritual]

I am interested in how you are enjoying the Time4Writing class? What has the structure of the class been like? Have you liked how they laid it out and the work your kids are doing? Thanks!

[SunnyDays]

Glad this thread got bumped back up! I hadn't seen it. I'm interested in how it's going as well... this is one option I've been considering for some additional writing instruction next year!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:lurk5:

[Create Your Ritual]

Checking in again and hoping to hear how the class went??

[iamrachelle]

I voted for Powerful Paragraphs because it won out in a contest of

eenie-meenie-mienie-mo. Very scientific.:D

[radiobrain]

Update!

 

OK, so I picked Powerful Paragraphs and home2teach's Fundamentals 1 back to back.

 

I HATED time 4 writing. Reasons....

 

1. It was pretty canned.

2. There were not enough choices in assignments. Really, you would get 2 options and sometimes it was really only one...as no middle school student would pick one of them. My son was not interested in any of the assignments so it was like pulling teeth.

3. The pacing of the lessons was irritating. You couldn't move on until it was graded or approved by the teacher which was usually a day later. So a lesson would take literally a few minutes then I would have to wait... ANd if you had revisions, well, there goes another day. Normally I would have been able to do multiple lessons in one day, which would give us more time to get the bigger assignments complete.

4. If the content is middle school level, then I must be doing a great job as it was remedial, IMHO.

5. We didn't complete it in time. This is coupled with the fact that I actually wrote a few of his assignments so we could move on to the lessons I thought he needed, instead of having a big argument about a lame-o assignment...which is the opposite of what I wanted in an online class. I wanted him to enjoy the writing, and look forward to it, do a good job etc., but it was not going to happen.

6. The input was a bit wonked, so we would get a note back like..."please indent your paragraph" and we would write back, we did, but it doesn't care....and there goes another day.

 

The "teacher" was really nice though. Her responses were good.

 

I think that it could be a really good course for a 5th grader. I don't know if the cost would be worth it though. If it were cheaper, or if you could ask to move on w/o doing certain assignments, I would be more forgiving. But really, can't a program bother to write more assignment choices? :confused:

 

OTOH, we really like the home2teach course. It was also pretty basic but the assignments were good, the live classes were fun and informative, content was solid, it was cheaper, it helped work on typing and MLA formatting, but here is the thing I liked most...you print out all the lessons ahead of time. You have a hard copy. This means that I can do a version of it at home with my younger son if I want, or brush up on stuff later. The teacher was excellent (actually taught), was great with the kids, and was a good communicator. I was also happy that even though we hadn't finished all the assignments with this class either (I pick my battles, and I had 2 very busy weeks), the teacher said we should move on to Fund. 2 as he would have no problem with it.

 

So, I have a negative review of T4W, and a positive of H2T. I think T4W could be drastically and easily improved, but I haven't had a chance to give them my opinions. Given its content, I would have little problem putting either of my kids in a high school class with them, if I were going to.

 

Ok, that's it! Sorry I didn't give an update earlier!

 

Now I am trying to decide between Online G3 www1/ML1 or Landry's English 301. Both use the stuff I have planned (or didn't finish this year if you want me to be honest), but I am afraid the workload will be too much w/ Landry, and I have not found any reviews of that class. It might be new, for all I know. OG3 has gotten glowing reviews from people I know IRL, so I think that needs to be taken very seriously. ;)

[Matryoshka]

Update!

 

OK, so I picked Powerful Paragraphs and home2teach's Fundamentals 1 back to back.

 

I HATED time 4 writing. Reasons....

[...snip...]

OTOH, we really like the home2teach course. It was also pretty basic but the assignments were good, the live classes were fun and informative, content was solid, it was cheaper, it helped work on typing and MLA formatting,

 

Thanks for the review! I ended up signing my dd up for Powerful Paragraphs too, and I agree... LAME! She's barely doing any work, what she'd doing is forumalic, and the teacher seems to think it's just fantastic. I signed her up for the middle school level (which should be 6th-8th, right?) even though she's in 5th grade and not in any way 'ahead' in writing, and it's too basic. :glare: I've been telling myself "it's better than nothing" and figuring we'd do something else next year.

 

So tell me about home2teach's class (hey, that wasn't an option you originally mentioned in this thread :tongue_smilie:). Would it still be worth signing her up for the home2teach class this year? (our school year doesn't end till the end of June, so their "summer" session would still fit in this year). I would like something that would actually teach her, and get her to write things more than: "Topic sentence. First this. Then that. Finally, the other thing. Restate topic sentence." She's a smart kid - she can do way better than that, but she won't write for me, and Time4Writing thinks that's great stuff. :glare: Would home2teach's class give me more than that? The description seems very basic, but it sounds like you feel like it was worthwhile? What was the content that was solid? What kinds of things did your dc write? I have a very similar type of kid - good grammar, vocabulary, mechanics - but I can't get her to write anything without bloodying my head on the wall. :banghead: Or maybe not even then.

 

Now I am trying to decide between Online G3 www1/ML1 or Landry's English 301. Both use the stuff I have planned (or didn't finish this year if you want me to be honest), but I am afraid the workload will be too much w/ Landry, and I have not found any reviews of that class. It might be new, for all I know. OG3 has gotten glowing reviews from people I know IRL, so I think that needs to be taken very seriously. ;)

So tell me more about these, because I also have to figure out the fall. OG3 uses MCT, yes? Wait - I just looked at their courses - they only do MCT grammar/vocab, not writing?