I need advice for my 7 yo dd, she is struggling in school

[rudyionk]

Let me introduce myself first. I am a married mother of three kids. we also have a foreign exchange student living with us this year from Germany (first time we've done this, and it will be the last)

 

my older two make straight A's in public school. it is a very small rural school. I went to school with many of the teachers. it is ok, but not the best.

 

My youngest dd is in first grade in public school. She is really struggling. she only haltingly reads and seems to think it is too hard. She is a high strung person, always active, always nervous. has been from infancy. I've thought public school was good because of all the kid interaction she'd have there, but I'm starting to wonder...

 

I went to talk to the teacher yesterday for the 3rd or 4th time this year. She basically told me she didn't know why my dd is having trouble. I told her she was high strung, and she argued with me that dd is never in trouble. I agreed, that dd is nervous to get in trouble, so she tries hard to behave, but she is still high strung.

 

the teacher has separated the kids out into tables facing each other in three groups: the doing well group, the struggling group (dd's), and the not getting it at all group.

 

you can't tell me that the kids don't have this figured out!!!! I think her classroom is unruly and loud, which further distracts my daughter. what is crazy, is that at the end of kindergarten, my dd had the highest score on the BEAR reading test of all the kids!

 

the teacher told me she thought it was the German living with us, that it had just disrupted my dd too much. well, this might be true, but surely we can help this somehow! she also asked me if my dd might be ADHD!! which I think is ridiculous. we got her a new set of girl legos last weekend for her 7th birthday and she spent 12 plus hours focused on them until she got it done.????

 

I could go on and on. I am now wondering if it is better to keep her in school and just really work hard afterschooling, or pull her out to finish 1st grade with me at home and put her back in public school in 2nd grade, or what??!!!

 

any advice? and thanks so much if you've read this far. sorry to have such a schpeel for my first post! I just need to find someone who understands and has good ideas!!!

 

oh, and I asked her about dd's math, and the teacher said, "oh......well, math is math!"

 

what?!!!!:confused:

[jenbrdsly]

Ugh! I feel your frustration. Some thoughts:

1) Have you had your daughter's eyes checked by a real eye-doctor, not just at the pediatrician's office?

2) Is your daughter getting enough sleep?

3) Do they have a built-in snack time at school? Is it possible your daughter might have low blood sugar?

4) Have you ever done an at-home reading or math assessment on your daughter yourself? Here are some links to some free reading and math assessments:

Reading Assessments: Guided Reading Level, San Diego Quick Reading Assessment,

Math Assessments: Saxon, Singapore, Horizons

5) Have you tried meeting with the principal? At the two districts I use to teach at in CA they called these SST or "Student Successes Team" meetings. Parents could request them at any time.

Good luck!

[Nart]

Do you have any materials at home to teach her to read such as Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading (OPGTR), Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, or Phonics Pathways, Explore the Code books 1-3 (each book is less than 20 dollars on Amazon)? Funnix beginning reading is going to be available free on-line in February).

 

Learning how to read well in first grade (ideally 60 words per minute on a 1st grade text) is really critical in public school, if not it is really difficult to catch up. If the classroom is loud and unruly you would be better off teaching her how to read at home. Even if there are interventions at school you mentioned that there are kids who are lower than she is so she won't be getting much help. Before pulling her you should have a plan. Think about what curriculum you have and if you don't have any then buy some or go to the public library and see if they have any books. Look over at the K-8 curriculum forum and read up on what other kinder and first graders are using to teach reading. If you are seriously considering pulling her and don't know much about homeschooling (just mentioning this because you said it was your first post), re-post this there and ask what materials and curriculum you will need, your budget, and whether you want secular or Christian content. I have learned so much from the K-8 forum. I used to teach first grade and was trained in the era of whole language which means that I learned nothing about phonics. I learned more about teaching reading on this site than I learned in my teacher credentialing classes.

 

Public school can be a wonderful learning environment with the right teacher and the available resources, but if my child had a weak teacher that was not a good match for my child, I would not wait and see if things got better in first grade, perhaps a latter grade, but not first grade.

[rudyionk]

thank you two so much for your thoughts!!! I am leaning towards pulling her out right now. I am a very part-time self employed person myself, so I have the time to spend with her.

 

we do have the "teach your kid to read in 100 lessons" book (or something like that) I've used it some with her, but with public school and big kid ballgames in the evening, we haven't had the chance to use it much.

 

My sister home schools her four children also, so I can get up to speed fairly fast I think.

 

I would talk with the principal, but unfortunately, he is a coach and isn't very concerned with this type of thing. my dh is actually on the school board, and he's asked in the last few meetings if any of the administrators know anything about 1st grade class struggling with reading and they all looked at him like he was making it up!!!

 

I think I'll work with her here at home until August, then decide if she's ready for the 2nd grade in P.S. the 2nd grade teacher here is a seasoned, in control, calm, but firm teacher, so my instinct is that she would do fine, as long as she was ready.

 

I'll look up all you've suggested, thanks so much!!!

[Slipper]

I don't know if this will help...I have a 1st grader as well. She is very sensitive and also is never in trouble. She was actually too afraid to raise her hand and answer. Her classroom was noisy and disruptive (one little girl frequently barked at and bit other classmates). To maintain some type of order, the teacher yelled, screamed and threatened. After my daughter started referring to herself as a 'bad kid' in a 'bad class' I spoke to the teacher and she would make sure to let dd know that she wasn't bad even as she was telling the rest of the class that THEY were bad.

 

My daughter had a lot of tummy problems and we finally pulled her out during Christmas holidays.

 

She was doing well with reading, but we've seen a lot of advancement since she's been home. Although I am a huge believer about staying on a schedule and doing certain things daily, I decided to be relaxed about the rest of the school year which has helped her feel better. I think when she felt better, she was able to concentrate and learn. Certainly she wasn't hesitant about asking for help or questions when it is just the two of us.

 

My suggestion is less academic and more emotional. I would find a quiet time, away from everyone else for a heart-to-heart talk with your daughter. Ask her what she thinks about school and why she thinks reading/math might be hard. My kids have had times where they've struggled in certain subjects and it was very comforting for me to tell them that we would sort through it together and that I would help them. I also let them know that many kids struggle in subjects and that they would get it. (I feel that sometimes being so anxious about learning something prevents the learning). If you think another classroom might help, ask your daughter what she thinks and see if you can get your daughter moved. It's a drastic decision, but it's do-able.

 

For us, my daughter told us that she liked her teacher but was a little afraid of her. She liked her classmates and she liked the work. But, she wanted to come home. All of it was overwhelming. It was a good decision for us.

 

Good luck :)

 

PS Just to cover all bases, go ahead and ask her if the German student living with you is bothering her in any way.

[LolaT]

I think many of the responses here are very helpful. I just wanted to add, I would not take offense to the ADHD comment. It's worth considering, even if only to rule it out. There are questionnaires you can fill out to get an idea if it could be a real issue. My DD is 7 and goes to PS part time. The school environment is too rowdy and loud for her and she doesn't get enough one-on-one attention that she would need in order to focus better. Reading is hard at that 1st grade level. I HS for Lang. Arts and Math. She is now on meds for ADHD because it's making her life easier. She was never rowdy and in trouble, she simply had a very hard time maintaining focus on some things, particularly things that are no longer "new". On the other hand, many ADHD kids focus very well on something they are highly interested in (i.e. legos) maybe even to the point they forget other things they need to do.

[Iucounu]

I second pretty much all of the previous comments, but would like to stress that giftedness and ADHD can present with similar symptoms; that of course a gifted child can have ADHD as well, or SPD or anxiety, none of which is that uncommon; and that you should get her eyes checked.

[BabyBre]

she also asked me if my dd might be ADHD!! which I think is ridiculous. we got her a new set of girl legos last weekend for her 7th birthday and she spent 12 plus hours focused on them until she got it done.????

 

 

 

I want to preface this by saying that I am a huge believer that disorders are overdiagnosed and that overworked, over-regulated, underpaid, and underappreciated (by the system, I'm saying, not by you, the parent) teachers are often a catalyst for that.

 

BUT, I do believe the ability you describe for intense, singly focused attention for an extended period is a characteristic of ADHD. I'd also say that at this point, that means nothing unless your dd is having serious problems, and it doesn't sound like she is.

 

Part of the problem is that your child's teacher each year has only one year to meet goals or standards probably set by people at the state level (and soon to be the federal level). Your dd may not be ready to reach those goals yet, but her teacher is under immense pressure to make sure she does before next June. Next year, her next teacher will be concerned that she's not at whatever level those folks at the state office want her to be, and all the concern starts all over, giving you the impression she's struggling. However, YOU are the constant in her education, the one who knows how far she's come, the one who knows her needs the best and has been the most invested in her education. There is a point at which concern is due, but it's not in first grade. And the best way to help her is not to medicate her, but to work with her intentionally at home.

 

Working with first graders, I've seen kids who hardly know their ABCs seemingly sit stagnant throughout most of the year, making NO progress in their reading ability at all, suddenly hit the point where it all finally comes together in their minds. I've seen first graders jump several reading levels in a matter of a couple weeks. I think that's an age where the range of abilities CANNOT be standardized. It will click when it's going to click, and that may be in preschool or not until the second grade. But it will rarely be at the same time, in the same 9-month period that 25-30 randomly grouped kids reach the same point.

 

 

oh, and I asked her about dd's math, and the teacher said, "oh......well, math is math!"

 

what?!!!!:confused:

 

Didn't you know that math is hard? That's why kids don't get it today. Somehow math got harder and kids got stupider. Or it could be that that's just an excuse for not teaching it successfully. It's not entirely your teacher's fault. She's probably only following orders from her district who follows orders from the state, and so on, but the buck's got to stop somewhere and that's probably going to have to be with you. "Math is math" is a popular excuse for failure (on the part of the schools to teach it), and it sounds like excusing failure is a pretty popular attitude at least with this teacher, if not in the school or entire district (as it is in ours).

 

Again, if you can't homeschool exclusively, the best way to combat this is to teach her at home yourself with a program that uses an opposing method. Your school most likely uses a "fuzzy math" program like Everyday Math, TERC Investigations, Bridges in Mathematics, etc. that focuses on avoiding the traditional methods we learned (just wait until second grade when you find you can't help her with her math homework), including practice and drill. Those are the things you NEED to teach her at home. We prefer Saxon, but the WTM also recommends Singapore, Math-U-See, Calvert, I think, and a couple others. It's also a good idea to try to work her ahead of grade level at home so that the efficient, long-standing, internationally know methods are the ones she knows solidly. Then everything she learns at school is enrichment.

[rudyionk]

Thanks again for so many of your detailed, great responses!! I am so intrigued and rallyed by your interest and input! Wish I could sit down at the kitchen table with all of you.

 

Since I wrote the initial post, my dh and I have considered strongly if there are any "cons" to pulling her out right now and homeschooling until August when she could hopefully rejoin her class in 2nd grade. We cannot think of any cons.

 

I have given her the Saxon math placement test someone linked to here, she appears to need level 1. She just needs to know money and a clock and she'd be on level 2. her behavior taking the test with me was very interesting. she was thrilled when she easily got the answer and knew it was right. when she was suspecting she was wrong or just plain knew she didn't know the answer, she got very uptight and wiggly and begged to have extra time so she could get it right. I think she is a perfectionist and can't stand the thought that she might not know something that is being asked of her. I think this is adding to her anxiety in a classroom where she is obviously confronted with new info all the time, but in a public setting. if she got that anxious with me, her mother, then all the more anxious must she be getting in a classroom with peers and a teacher?

 

I appreciate your thoughts on ADHD. I probably needed to see this from different perspectives. I have read just a little online and think she might have the impulsiveness aspect for sure. she can hardly stand to not interrupt conversations if she thinks of something to say. she has always had boundless energy, so perhaps thats the hyperactivity portion to some degree. and inattention seems to come if she feels like she can't quickly and accurately complete something. in fact, she sounds quite a lot like the webMD definition. she has always been SUPER aware of her surroundings, listening and catching all that is said, rooms away from her. she also always knows where anything is in the house - she's very observant.

 

soo......I'm going to do some more thinking and reading on how to help her at home. I have an eye appt for her next Wed to check her eyesight. and I think I'll try to determine the "right" curriculum for us to use to help get her back on track the next few months.

 

I wonder if by August she will be ready for 2nd grade PS or not?

 

again, thanks so much for all your thoughts...

Ruth Ann

[BabyBre]

if she got that anxious with me, her mother, then all the more anxious must she be getting in a classroom with peers and a teacher?

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

she has always been SUPER aware of her surroundings, listening and catching all that is said, rooms away from her. she also always knows where anything is in the house - she's very observant.

 

 

 

This is also a characteristic of gifted children. Be sure to look into that alongside your ADHD investigation.

 

 

I wonder if by August she will be ready for 2nd grade PS or not?

 

 

 

I bet she will. :)

[Mallorie]

I happened on the afterschooling board by accident, I was going for the high school board. But this thread caught my eye.

 

I pulled all three kids out a couple years ago, but the reasons for pulling my dd were largely for anxiety. For the environment you describe, I think it would be a good idea to strongly consider pulling her. At that age, it is not difficult nor time-intensive to homeschool. My dd was having anxiety-related issues, and it took a bit after pulling her out for her to "stabilize" for lack of better word. I don't regret it at all!

 

The one thing that caught my eye in your post was the reference to Saxon math. Saxon 1 was incredibly frustrating for my dd. It is slow and very repetitive. Some need that, and it works well. My dd really hit a wall with it. CLE worked much better, and it's cheaper.

 

I would really encourage you not to send her to school all day and then do a rigorous after-school. It would be overload.

 

Good luck to you.

[BabyBre]

Saxon 1 was incredibly frustrating for my dd. It is slow and very repetitive. Some need that, and it works well. My dd really hit a wall with it. CLE worked much better, and it's cheaper.

 

I would really encourage you not to send her to school all day and then do a rigorous after-school. It would be overload.

 

 

 

Saxon is full of repetition, but there's no need to beat a dead horse if she's already mastered the content. That's actually one thing I like best about Saxon. It's far easier to leave out or reduce portions dc don't need than it is to add them in.

 

We do go to school all day and do a rigorous before-school. We get up early and go to bed early, and we've done this since K. It's kept dc at the tops of their classes. Dd is now attending our district's gifted school, and ds will be eligible next year. There's sometimes resistance (although that could be said for all things), but now it's just what we do here. And there are far more kids at dd's gifted school who also afterschool at home. That should tell you something.

[Mallorie]

Saxon is full of repetition, but there's no need to beat a dead horse if she's already mastered the content. That's actually one thing I like best about Saxon. It's far easier to leave out or reduce portions dc don't need than it is to add them in.

 

We do go to school all day and do a rigorous before-school. We get up early and go to bed early, and we've done this since K. It's kept dc at the tops of their classes. Dd is now attending our district's gifted school, and ds will be eligible next year. There's sometimes resistance (although that could be said for all things), but now it's just what we do here. And there are far more kids at dd's gifted school who also afterschool at home. That should tell you something.

 

Duly noted.

 

I didn't come here to knock afterschooling. I believe that families should do what works for them to meet their goals.

 

My reasons for posting what I did are in regards to this situation.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Mallorie

[rudyionk]

where can I figure out the meaning of the acronyms used on this board? for example, CLE??

 

I was public schooled as a child but we used saxon math textbooks which I loved at the time, in high school.

 

I am open to anything at this point, obviously!!

 

I have amazon prime and I ordered yesterday, "100 Top Picks for Homeschool Curriculum: Choosing the Right Curriculum and Approach for Your Child's Learning Style " so I should get this in the next day or two. I'm hoping to have some curriculum picked out pretty quick and go ahead and pull her and start ASAP.

 

not sure if I mentioned this or explained this very well, but dd has always had odd repetitious behavior. like she picked at our fingernails everytime she reached for my hand. she would scrape my fingernails into her palms. she likes to go barefoot on cold floors. she humped things when she was younger. she feverishly sucked her fingers until last year when she just quit on her own. She ALWAYS reaches to touch my mole on my upper chest when near me, she even named it, "Me-ell" I always figured this was some sort of sensory deal, where she needed to feel intense, strong things to have relief or something. does that factor in somehow here? these behaviors have diminished greatly, but still appear slightly, especially the finger stuff.

 

we live in a very rural area. but, I would entertain taking her to some type of specialist or therapist somewhere if you all could tell me the credentials that could correctly diagnose ADHD or sensory issues, so I could learn how to help her deal with them, it they are present. but I highly doubt our MD's out here would have a clue where to send me.

 

thanks again for all your great thoughts!!!

[MomatHWTK]

ADHD can manifest in various different ways. ADHD kids can hyperfocus if they don't have outside distractions. My son can get through just about any computer game and build great Lego projects. He cannot complete a full math problem without losing his place. Outside noise is very disturbing to him, as are surprises or just thinking about what is going to happen next. The testing for ADHD is not difficult. As others have said it is possible to be very bright and still have ADHD stumbles. Some are able to compensate and others not. But knowing one way or the other would help you even if you do pull her from the current setting.

[Lecka]

Hi!

 

I am afterschooling my son for reading. He has clear issues -- he was completely lost in K.

 

I am working with him with multisensory techniques. If the usual recommendations for reading programs don't work, it could be that she needs another teaching method. That is what has happened with my son.

 

I was wondering also if he could catch up and be ready for the next year of school. And -- he is. For now, at least, he is right on grade level. We have through the summer to get him to the 50 wmp/minute end-of-first-grade thing... and I think he can do it, b/c he is making slow but steady progress.

 

I am very happy with literally everything else about his school, but he cannot afford to fall behind in reading, and I would pull him out to try to catch him up if it came to that. B/c I do like him in public school, I do tie myself to public school goals, instead of going slowly and "at his own pace." (Sorry -- this is not my philosophy.) But if he was not able to do it, I would take him out. If he went slowly at home but was working hard and doing a good program, I could live with that, but if there is a choice, I choose public school and afterschooling and summer schooling. I just say that b/c it does explain why I want him to stay on that schedule or close to that schedule.

 

The thing about 12 hours on Legos: I have seen that called "hyperfocus." I have seen it mentioned for ADHD. I don't know much about that though.

 

My son was having ADHD mentioned in K, but it turned out the work was too hard for him. Now that he knows what is going on in class, he doesn't seem like he has ADHD. I never thought he had ADHD, either, I thought he didn't know how to do the work. He answered questions very well and has very good listening comprehension ---- this threw the teacher off for thinking the problem was from understanding the work. Forgivable.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Lecka

[Heathermomster]

Hi there,

 

I have been afterschooling for years and never knew there was a name for it...I wanted to mention that if you are concerned about your DDs reading, Scottish Rite Learning Centers perform free dyslexia screening to everyone. The only bad thing is that they do not perform IQ testing and other testing, so it is possible that a gifted child might test "low and no dyslexia" when in fact, they are compensating very well.

 

My son struggled in 1st grade, so we had him screened at Scottish Rite. He was diagnosed dyslexic the final week of 1st grade. DS began Wilson Reading tutoring with a specialist in 2nd grade. We opted not to hire an Orton-Gillingham (O-G) tutor over the summer, and that decision was a huge mistake.

 

If you are going to work with your child, select a program that is multi-sensory, O-G based. Get the eyes and ears checked to rule out any hearing or vision problems. Use books that are vowel controlled. I'm sorry but don't remember what they are technically called. BOB books are an example...I hate to hear about 1st graders having problems in school. Some children simply require more systematic, direct phonemic instruction and unfortunately, many teachers simply aren't good at teaching reading.

 

Link to O-G: http://www.orton-gillingham.com/

Edited January 29, 2012 by Heathermomster
can't spell or type

[jenbrdsly]

where can I figure out the meaning of the acronyms used on this board? for example, CLE??

 

I was public schooled as a child but we used saxon math textbooks which I loved at the time, in high school.

 

I am open to anything at this point, obviously!!

 

I have amazon prime and I ordered yesterday, "100 Top Picks for Homeschool Curriculum: Choosing the Right Curriculum and Approach for Your Child's Learning Style " so I should get this in the next day or two. I'm hoping to have some curriculum picked out pretty quick and go ahead and pull her and start ASAP.

 

not sure if I mentioned this or explained this very well, but dd has always had odd repetitious behavior. like she picked at our fingernails everytime she reached for my hand. she would scrape my fingernails into her palms. she likes to go barefoot on cold floors. she humped things when she was younger. she feverishly sucked her fingers until last year when she just quit on her own. She ALWAYS reaches to touch my mole on my upper chest when near me, she even named it, "Me-ell" I always figured this was some sort of sensory deal, where she needed to feel intense, strong things to have relief or something. does that factor in somehow here? these behaviors have diminished greatly, but still appear slightly, especially the finger stuff.

 

we live in a very rural area. but, I would entertain taking her to some type of specialist or therapist somewhere if you all could tell me the credentials that could correctly diagnose ADHD or sensory issues, so I could learn how to help her deal with them, it they are present. but I highly doubt our MD's out here would have a clue where to send me.

 

thanks again for all your great thoughts!!!

 

 

There was some research that came out last year on ADHD that was featured on Good Morning America. Ask a child to make a thumbs up sign and then switch to the A-OK sign, and then go back and forth a whole bunch. While they are doing this look at the other hand (on the sly). If the other hand is twitching, then that could be a red flag that the child has ADHD. Neurotypical kids will keep the other hand still.

[rudyionk]

There was some research that came out last year on ADHD that was featured on Good Morning America. Ask a child to make a thumbs up sign and then switch to the A-OK sign, and then go back and forth a whole bunch. While they are doing this look at the other hand (on the sly). If the other hand is twitching, then that could be a red flag that the child has ADHD. Neurotypical kids will keep the other hand still.

 

 

hmmm....just did this with her and her other hand was completely still, situated in a closed manner, but not clenched.