fourcatmom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I posted this in the writing section but did not receive any comments, so I though I would re-post over here. My 11 yo dd is just proof reading and finishing up writing her first book. It's an adventure book and about 27 chapters long. We are going to be printing it out and sending it to publishers but I was looking for any suggestions or advice prior to doing so. Has anyone submitted a manuscript before or published a book? Do you have any suggestions that might help us? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 My husband is both a writer and an agent, so this is my advice based on sharing an office with him. Don't send it to a publisher, send it to an agent. It is extremely rare these days to find a publisher that accepts direct submissions. Generally, books sent straight to the publisher will not be read. If an agent agrees to represent the book, he or she will help your daughter improve it before it goes on submission. Then the agent will carefully select the publishers to submit the book to and write a pitch letter that sells the book to the publishers. The agent will follow up with the publishers, and, should an offer come in, will help with contract negotiations, etc. That said, it would be extremely unusual for a book by an 11 yo to be published by a traditional publisher. She may want to consider self-publishing for ereaders. She can set the price herself, and she'll get a percentage of every sale. Amazon has forums for Kindle authors where she can find lots of advice on that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you. I know there is a book on Amazon that was written by a local 11 year old. It is available in ebook and paperback. So, how do I find an agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you. I know there is a book on Amazon that was written by a local 11 year old. It is available in ebook and paperback. So, how do I find an agent? Check out absolutewrite.com for a listing of agents and lots of advice about submissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Don't bother submitting it to publishers. No one will ever see it. Just about all traditional publishers have had an "agented-only" policy for the last decade or longer. They used to hire English majors straight out of college to read through the slush pile, but those days are long gone. And getting an agent even to look at a first work by an unpublished author is nearly impossible. That's the bad news. Now the good news. Traditional publishing is going down the tubes because of e-readers. Even two or three years ago "self-publishing" was considered by almost everyone as something only wannabees would even consider. Over the last couple of years, self-publishing has taken off big time. There are now literally thousands of authors who've never been published by a traditional publisher but are now making nice livings by self-publishing for Kindle and Nook. Not to mention many more traditionally-published authors, some with dozens of titles, who are now self-publishing their backlists and all of their new work. Nor are you limited to ebooks. Not much more work is needed to self-publish print books through Amazon. Getting started is pretty easy, and can be done for next to nothing. Assuming you have the book as a finished document, it needs to be formatted for Kindle (and Nook, if you wish). You need a cover, which you can put together yourself with a graphics program or pay a college kid whose majoring in graphic arts to do for you. All you need then is an Amazon account. You just upload it, set a price on it, and it's published. Go to the Amazon.com website and search for KDP for more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Oh, and I think the book by the local 11 yo is probably self-published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you for the information. Glad I didn't waste my time submitting to publishers. I tried but it was about 15 years ago and only 1 publisher ever wrote me back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Oh, and I think the book by the local 11 yo is probably self-published. I don't know because you can actually order a copy of it? Maybe I am still confused. here is the link to the book by the 11 yo in our area http://www.amazon.com/Spys-Story-Nick-Mecklenburg/dp/146535686X Edited January 9, 2012 by fourcatmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't know because you can actually order a copy of it? Maybe I am still confused. here is the link to the book by the 11 yo in our area http://www.amazon.com/Spys-Story-Nick-Mecklenburg/dp/146535686X The publisher is Xlibris, which is a self-publish print-on-demand company. Just to be clear: I think self-publishing is great in many cases. I just didn't want you to think that 11-year-olds get traditional publishing contracts. I'm not saying it's impossible, but . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) The publisher is Xlibris, which is a self-publish print-on-demand company. Just to be clear: I think self-publishing is great in many cases. I just didn't want you to think that 11-year-olds get traditional publishing contracts. I'm not saying it's impossible, but . . . I understand. I am just trying to figure out which way to go. I think her book is good, but I guess I am biased. We have had several people read it and they all think we should go for it. She is already working on book #2. Do you know in general how much it cost to go through a place like Xlibris? Okay, so for what we would want, it's $649. Might need to save some money. Edited January 9, 2012 by fourcatmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I understand. I am just trying to figure out which way to go. I think her book is good, but I guess I am biased. We have had several people read it and they all think we should go for it. She is already working on book #2. Do you know in general how much it cost to go through a place like Xlibris? Okay, so for what we would want, it's $649. Might need to save some money. Don't even think about it. Xlibris is one of those "vanity presses" that wannabees used to pay to publish their books back before Amazon introduced Kindle. I'm assuming that you're aware that your daughter's book isn't like to set any sales records and that you just want to publish it as an experience for her. If so, there's really no reason to spend much money at all, let alone $649. You can download any of several good books on self-publishing from Amazon for anything from $0.00 to a few bucks. They'll lead you through what you need to do to format the book for Kindle and Nook, create a cover, and upload (publish) the book to Amazon and B&N. Two of the good ones are A Newbie's Guide to Publishing by Joe Konrath (his site is http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/) and Let's Get Digital by David Gaughran (http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/). These are the web site, but both authors have created books based on their knowledge and experience. Those books can be purchased as ebooks on Amazon. If you don't have a Kindle, you can also download the Amazon reader app for a PC, Mac, smartphone, tablet, or whatever. You also don't want to even think about contacting agents. Their whole business model has been pretty much obsoleted by ebooks. There's now nothing an agent can do for you that you can't do better and less expensively yourself (or in the case of contract negotiations, by working with an IP attorney directly). Read Konrath's blog. He swore off agents long ago (as did I). He also earned $50,000 in self publishing royalties just in the last week of 2011 (which I didn't; grrr.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Don't even think about it. Xlibris is one of those "vanity presses" that wannabees used to pay to publish their books back before Amazon introduced Kindle. I'm assuming that you're aware that your daughter's book isn't like to set any sales records and that you just want to publish it as an experience for her. If so, there's really no reason to spend much money at all, let alone $649. You can download any of several good books on self-publishing from Amazon for anything from $0.00 to a few bucks. They'll lead you through what you need to do to format the book for Kindle and Nook, create a cover, and upload (publish) the book to Amazon and B&N. Two of the good ones are A Newbie's Guide to Publishing by Joe Konrath (his site is http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/) and Let's Get Digital by David Gaughran (http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/). These are the web site, but both authors have created books based on their knowledge and experience. Those books can be purchased as ebooks on Amazon. If you don't have a Kindle, you can also download the Amazon reader app for a PC, Mac, smartphone, tablet, or whatever. You also don't want to even think about contacting agents. Their whole business model has been pretty much obsoleted by ebooks. There's now nothing an agent can do for you that you can't do better and less expensively yourself (or in the case of contract negotiations, by working with an IP attorney directly). Read Konrath's blog. He swore off agents long ago (as did I). He also earned $50,000 in self publishing royalties just in the last week of 2011 (which I didn't; grrr.) I want to publish it because it's a good story, she's worked very hard on it and I think people will enjoy reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You might consider hiring a free-lance editor to look it over before you do anything else. A good editor can be a *wonderful* resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 You might consider hiring a free-lance editor to look it over before you do anything else. A good editor can be a *wonderful* resource. Thank you. She actually has a teacher for a writing class who has published books and she is reading her story now and giving her ideas about some editing to do. There are still some grammar mistakes that need to be fixed but the essence of the story is complete. I am waiting for her to give us feedback on the whole story before I make any final decisions but the feedback from people whom have read it has been very positive - aside from the grammar / spelling mistakes that she is correcting now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thank you. She actually has a teacher for a writing class who has published books and she is reading her story now and giving her ideas about some editing to do. There are still some grammar mistakes that need to be fixed but the essence of the story is complete. I am waiting for her to give us feedback on the whole story before I make any final decisions but the feedback from people whom have read it has been very positive - aside from the grammar / spelling mistakes that she is correcting now. Correcting grammar and spelling mistakes is the job of a copy editor. I am talking about a developmental or substantive editor. They point out and give you ideas of how to fix plot holes and anachronisms. They will make sure tone and style are consistent throughout. They might suggest adjusting elements that don't seem to work or fit. They will help the author adjust pace when necessary. They will *often* suggest changes to make a book more commercial. The author of Eragon was a 16 year old kid who self-published and pushed books at bookstores until he was picked up by a publishing house. Personally, I *really* wish he had made use of a better editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This group will offer a critique of a manuscript for $1/page. http://www.mightypenediting.com/?page_id=62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ...Personally, I *really* wish he had made use of a better editor. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Amen! Dude! I was reading fantasy before you were born, I don't need an encyclopedia entry on what a shade is. If some people don't know what a shade is, make him do some stuff, then they will know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Dude! I was reading fantasy before you were born, I don't need an encyclopedia entry on what a shade is. If some people don't know what a shade is, make him do some stuff, then they will know! :smilielol5: I just wished someone had helped him shrink it down. Epics lose their epic-ness when the writer runs out of words before the last installment is complete. I haven't seen sales figures, or read any reviews of Inheritance, but the poor kid really lost his momentum. To the OP, congrats on your dd's book, especially for her actually COMPLETING it! I second the kindle market as a great place to get started, especially if she's got more than one book in a set. Do all the research on it, let her keep writing, and then release them all at once on the ereader market, where folks go from book to book to book very quickly. I have seen MANY authors take three or four books to complete a story arc, or focus on the same story/setting from several different perspectives, and offer the first one free or dirt cheap to hook readers who will buy the second, third, etc. I am pretty sure if you want to have a hardcopy as a souvenir for your dd, or a few to give as gifts or promotion, you can find single copy publishers (more like print shops). Might want to go over to nanowrimo.org and see if there are links to any; I think they offered bound single copies to winners last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 :smilielol5: I just wished someone had helped him shrink it down. Epics lose their epic-ness when the writer runs out of words before the last installment is complete. I haven't seen sales figures, or read any reviews of Inheritance, but the poor kid really lost his momentum. To the OP, congrats on your dd's book, especially for her actually COMPLETING it! I second the kindle market as a great place to get started, especially if she's got more than one book in a set. Do all the research on it, let her keep writing, and then release them all at once on the ereader market, where folks go from book to book to book very quickly. I have seen MANY authors take three or four books to complete a story arc, or focus on the same story/setting from several different perspectives, and offer the first one free or dirt cheap to hook readers who will buy the second, third, etc. I am pretty sure if you want to have a hardcopy as a souvenir for your dd, or a few to give as gifts or promotion, you can find single copy publishers (more like print shops). Might want to go over to nanowrimo.org and see if there are links to any; I think they offered bound single copies to winners last year. Thank you for the information to everyone that posted. Yes, having a hard copy of the book is one of the reason I am considering the self publishing company. I understand what you are saying about the editor now. Thanks for clarifying. Like I said, there is work to be done but I read the 27 chapters and I am intrigued. She works on this day and night. She is on page 30 of book 2 and has in her mind the way she wants the other books to go. One more question, do I get some kind of copywrite on it before I send it out to people I don't know? Sorry if that is a stupid question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just want to add my two cents here. I've been writing since around that age- I wrote a novel at eleven or twelve on an old word processor with a black and white screen :D- and if someone had wanted to spend a bunch of money on me, it would have been much more useful to have it spent on things that would help me learn how to write well, as opposed to trying to publish my first real effort. I would have loved stuff like my own laptop, subscriptions to writing magazines, books on writing, whatever sorts of camps or writing workshops for kids are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Two more print on demand companies are lulu.com and create space. I would also spend some time over at nanowrimo.org, they have a young writer's program section. Either in the forums or info there should be good advice on self-publishing. The biggest critique of self-published stories is the poor editing. Up until recently, I know a few writers who wouldn't even read self-published works because of the issue. I would also look into some writing books for kids. I'm currently reading The Writer's Journey. So far I haven't come across anything would find objectionable for that age, ds asked for his own copy the other day. Also see if there is a local writing group that would be willing to mentor her. Also there are some writing programs that can be very helpful for the organization of the novel. I bought Scrivener for Nanowrimo this year, it's wonderful. Ds even uses it for his school writing. Edited January 11, 2012 by elegantlion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I am pretty sure if you want to have a hardcopy as a souvenir for your dd, or a few to give as gifts or promotion, you can find single copy publishers (more like print shops). Might want to go over to nanowrimo.org and see if there are links to any; I think they offered bound single copies to winners last year. No need. If she publishes the ebook through Amazon.com's KDP, she can also publish a print version through Amazon.com's Createspace. IIRC, there's a $39 setup charge, but that's it. Amazon produces the print books by print-on-demand, and they show up in its catalog just like any other print book. The only other thing she'll need to do is a print cover. The ebook cover is face-only, while a print book needs a full-wrap cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thank you for the information to everyone that posted. Yes, having a hard copy of the book is one of the reason I am considering the self publishing company. I understand what you are saying about the editor now. Thanks for clarifying. Like I said, there is work to be done but I read the 27 chapters and I am intrigued. She works on this day and night. She is on page 30 of book 2 and has in her mind the way she wants the other books to go. One more question, do I get some kind of copywrite on it before I send it out to people I don't know? Sorry if that is a stupid question. Your daughter has the copyright simply by having written the book. Anyone trying to get you to "buy" a copyright, or do something to "get" a copyright is scamming you. I do really suggest you spend some time over at the "absolutewrite water cooler" (Google it :)) You'll find a lot of help there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I do really suggest you spend some time over at the "absolutewrite water cooler" (Google it :)) You'll find a lot of help there. Just be aware that those forums are extremely biased against self-publishing, and take what they say with a grain of salt. A lot of traditionally-published authors are in complete denial over the revolution in self-publishing. They fought and struggled to get an agent and a publisher, and many consider themselves "real authors" because they've been traditionally published. To them, self-publishing is something that only loser wannabees would do, which was actually true until the ebook revolution. Now, many of them hate and fear self-publishing because so many self-published authors have done so well all by themselves, without any need for an agent or a publisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Thank you again for all the feedback. I have a lot of research to do. I do appreciate the comment about the laptop and such. Those are valid and good points. I have also been looking into writing program's for her. I have considered the Passion for Fiction class through Brave Writer. Thanks Again, Edited January 11, 2012 by fourcatmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If she's written something for children (a middle grades or YA novel, I'm assuming?), then I disagree that you shouldn't bother sending it directly to publishers. In the children's book world, you can absolutely still get things out of the slush pile and have it really read by someone at a publishing house. I've had that experience myself multiple times, getting clearly personal feedback and even being asked for revisions and a second look by sending directly to publishers, including by some big name publishers. In my writing groups, I know two authors who write and publish with midsize publishers unagented. But it's a big world out there. Submitting is a full on job and there are so many options of how to proceed, depending on what you want out of the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 If she's written something for children (a middle grades or YA novel, I'm assuming?), then I disagree that you shouldn't bother sending it directly to publishers. In the children's book world, you can absolutely still get things out of the slush pile and have it really read by someone at a publishing house. I've had that experience myself multiple times, getting clearly personal feedback and even being asked for revisions and a second look by sending directly to publishers, including by some big name publishers. In my writing groups, I know two authors who write and publish with midsize publishers unagented. But it's a big world out there. Submitting is a full on job and there are so many options of how to proceed, depending on what you want out of the experience. Yes, I would consider it a YA novel for kids around her age or older. I appreciate the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No need. If she publishes the ebook through Amazon.com's KDP, she can also publish a print version through Amazon.com's Createspace. IIRC, there's a $39 setup charge, but that's it. Amazon produces the print books by print-on-demand, and they show up in its catalog just like any other print book. The only other thing she'll need to do is a print cover. The ebook cover is face-only, while a print book needs a full-wrap cover. Oh, that's good to know! Fourcatmom, you could always do what's called a "poor man's copyright." Seal a printed, dated copy of the manuscript, and maybe even a CD or flash drive copy, in a large manilla envelope or box. Tape over all the sides and both you and your daughter write your signatures over the various seals. Mail the box to yourself, asking the post office to also stamp the date over the seals, and then keep it at home, unopened. It can be produced, seals intact, with a federal institution's date stamp, if your dd's authorship of the material is ever questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) No need. If she publishes the ebook through Amazon.com's KDP, she can also publish a print version through Amazon.com's Createspace. IIRC, there's a $39 setup charge, but that's it. Amazon produces the print books by print-on-demand, and they show up in its catalog just like any other print book. The only other thing she'll need to do is a print cover. The ebook cover is face-only, while a print book needs a full-wrap cover. Thank you for saying this. It's something I might want to know one day. I'm currently working on something. :) ... I found a book that might be interesting to other who want to know more about self publishing: http://www.amazon.com/Aiming-Amazon-Publishing-Marketing-Amazon-com/dp/093849743X/ref=pd_sim_b_1 Edited January 11, 2012 by Julie Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Incidentally, I was wrong about the $39 setup fee for createspace. I think they did have that fee until a year or two ago, but now it's completely free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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