Holly IN Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Background first: We have been using TOG for the past 3 years. Yr 1, 2 and 3. Right now I have a R son (16 soon to be 17 yrs old), D son (14 yr old) and LG daughter (she is 12 but due to her special needs she is LG). My daughter is ok with using TOG. I have a very hard time finding the books that TOG recommends at the LG level and the other level which name escapes me at the moment. My two boys do not like TOG. My D son says it is not fun at all. My R son says it is ok but really rather focus more on American history. We are in Yr 3 Unit 4. He feels there is not enough time on US history. He doesn't like the questions being asked in the workbooks I make for them. I do the workbooks like one of the posters on here. I can't remember her name either. (new laptop guys so none of my bookmarks have been transferred yet) I work a full time job and homeschool the kids. TOG I love very much but it is too intensive for me. I am spending more time planning and finding books or trying to find a replacement due to the library not having it or it is OOP. The boys want a open and go but fun books. I do not want to use textbooks and neither the boys. I want to keep all the kids on the same cycle for history. My R boy likes the organization of TOG however is tired of me trying to plan and make workbooks. He wonders if there is a program that is similiar but less intensive on my part where he doesn't have to depend on me to get the books and make the workbooks. For english: we are using Analytical Grammar with the boys. My daughter is using SWB's FLL and WWE. My middle school boy is using the WWS (he needs a lot of work in area of writing...he is not my liberal arts guy...my oldest is). Geography: All kids need help in this area for current geography. One drawback of TOG is no current stuff on Geo. Do like the fact they learn about the time period of geography. Right now we are debating holding my oldest home for another year. He is currently a Junior. We are debating not letting him go to college until he is 19. He will benefit greatly with another year at home. It is HIS decision. We are talking about it with him. He is in a serious committed relationship with his girlfriend. She is 2 years younger than him. Both parents are encouraged by their relationship. :) PTL!! However the drawback is he wants to start college and start life with her when she is halfway though college. Her parents do not want her married until she is 20 or older. He sees both options as positive. So this is a big factor in our decision to stop TOG or continue. He sees the positive of staying home another year and not graduate till 2014. His friend is doing the same thing. We do not know yet of his decision. Still talking and praying.... Continue in next post: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Now my questions: MFW is being considered. I am so so confused about how to keep kids on same cycle. If I decide on MFW what is the best route to go with after finishing up TOG yr 3. We should be done by beginning of February unless we stop and go deeper like we did with Civil War. How do I keep the kids on the same cycle? Do they seperate US history and World history? I prefer together but R son prefers seperatly. My main concern is the doctrine. We do not like Rick Warren's stuff. Kay Arthur is ok but hubby prefer to use stuff that the Restoration Movement uses. I can see from postings that I can pick and choose. Do I have to come up with writing assignments on MFW? Remember I know nothing about MFW but I do like what I ssee on the sample pages. Having 3 kids on different levels will make the teacher book costly for me (90 dollars a piece and this doesn't even include the other books). Again I love TOG. I just do not have time to do it. I have to let go of my dream of using it. (I can't even resell my tog sadly....) Thanks!! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 To make TOG simpler - buy the books from Bookshelf Central. (They are priced competitively and then the page numbers match up.) Buy the worksheets for each level from Tapestry itself. (I figured the cost of making copies and my time, it was worth the price. I got the black and white ones.) Let the boys schedule the work themselves. Honestly, I do no scheduling for my kids. I have 2 R girls and a D boy. We've been through a complete cycle once and are back on yr one. The girls have scheduled their own work for years. DS just started doing it all this year. And by scheduling, I mean I print out a weekly calendar with all slots for each subject each day. They fill in what they need to do for each subject. Math and grammar are the next lesson. Then TOG sometimes is spread out through the whole week. Sometimes they do all the history on one day, the literature on another day. Then you can stay with TOG. From what I've heard from people with kids who have been successful in college, the kids who already know how to plan their studies from a syllabus are ahead of those who don't. You are teaching them a skill they will need later on by letting them plan their week. I know nearly nothing about MFW so I can't help you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 work themselves. Honestly, I do no scheduling for my kids. Then you can stay with TOG. From what I've heard from people with kids who have been successful in college, the kids who already know how to plan their studies from a syllabus are ahead of those who don't. You are teaching them a skill they will need later on by letting them plan their week. . On the TOG board I get a lot of NO you can't do that. Workbooks are not good. blah blah blah You have to do the planning and the discussions. Well I do not even have time for the discussion they want us to do according to their message board and their teacher planning section of TOG. I know MFW have the discussion but I know it is not as long as TOG is. Ours drag to almost 2 hours and lit is 45 min. How long does it take you to do discussions?? Thanks for the suggestions. I needed that as I do not get that on the TOG message boards. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 On the TOG board I get a lot of NO you can't do that. Workbooks are not good. blah blah blah You have to do the planning and the discussions. Well I do not even have time for the discussion they want us to do according to their message board and their teacher planning section of TOG. I know MFW have the discussion but I know it is not as long as TOG is. Ours drag to almost 2 hours and lit is 45 min. How long does it take you to do discussions?? Thanks for the suggestions. I needed that as I do not get that on the TOG message boards. :) I'm going to be blunt.......who cares what 'they' say on the TOG boards? :) I don't entirely mean it, but really, each family needs to use curriculum as a tool to met its needs. And, I always thought independence was one of the big selling points of TOG in the first place! I am with you, though. Discussions are my biggest hangup with TOG. They are the reason I am considering something else for high school. I alternate b/t thinking I just need to buckle down and do them (since Ds likes them) and thinking they are just not realistic. Also considered LLC to help out, but it is expensive. In some discussion about TOG for high school I could have sworn one mom wrote that she sometimes had her dc just read the discussion and teacher's notes when she was pressed for time. Alas, I cannot find the post anywhere.......maybe I dreamed it........or it was wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Shannon, I've done that twice. It really is not ideal; he doesn't get near as much out of it as when we discuss it together. It is, however, more than nothing. :blushing: The best thing I've done toward making discussions more meaningful and interesting is to draft another student. My 13yo had been using SL until I switched him to TOG. It was soon evident that he was totally capable of sitting in on rhetoric-level discussions, and one more person just made it so much better. We need more TOG co-ops for this purpose. I don't know how to make the discussions shorter than 3-4 hours per week. We do it all on the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamato3 all-boy boys Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 In some discussion about TOG for high school I could have sworn one mom wrote that she sometimes had her dc just read the discussion and teacher's notes when she was pressed for time. Alas, I cannot find the post anywhere.......maybe I dreamed it........or it was wishful thinking. No, I remember this as well, though I don't know where I read it either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 . Also considered LLC to help out, but it is expensive. I was SO excited when this came out but got shot down on the price. I couldn't justify spending that much money on the curriculam then books then add that to the mix. WHOA!!! It would be cheaper for me to chuck homeschooling out the window and send the kids to private school after everything is said and done at the cash register. I was so disappointed in the pricing. Even MFW is expensive but their teacher plan thing is much cheaper in the long run however still have to hunt those books down. Not as much though but still.... Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 In some discussion about TOG for high school I could have sworn one mom wrote that she sometimes had her dc just read the discussion and teacher's notes when she was pressed for time. Alas, I cannot find the post anywhere.......maybe I dreamed it........or it was wishful thinking. No you didn't dream it. I saw that too but not sure where. I do remember several moms told her that is not the way TOG is intended to be used. I have to do it that way as I have NO time for discussions anymore. That is where the workbooks come in....fill in the blanks after the questions. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Shannon, I've done that twice. It really is not ideal; he doesn't get near as much out of it as when we discuss it together. It is, however, more than nothing. :blushing: I can see why they wouldn't. I have not succumbed to temptation--yet, but I've had thoughts--and the thought is mother to the deed! I don't think you are the only one. I'm pretty sure the post I read was from years ago. I did skip a history discussion this year, however. We listened to Pop Quiz in the car on the way to choir practice and talked about the events and called it good. Perhaps this could become a true confessions thread! Nah--one confession is enough for the day! The best thing I've done toward making discussions more meaningful and interesting is to draft another student. My 13yo had been using SL until I switched him to TOG. It was soon evident that he was totally capable of sitting in on rhetoric-level discussions, and one more person just made it so much better. We need more TOG co-ops for this purpose. I don't know how to make the discussions shorter than 3-4 hours per week. We do it all on the weekend. Say it isn't so! Where is the falling over, passing out smiley? This is what I suspected about R level discussions. LLC may be worth the cost. More to think about for high school. If only Ds were begging for a textbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Holly, I'm thinking through this decision too.... Background first:My two boys do not like TOG. My D son says it is not fun at all. My R son says it is ok but really rather focus more on American history. We are in Yr 3 Unit 4. He feels there is not enough time on US history. This is what I *think* I notice with TOG, and one of my reasons for considering a switch. However, Ds likes TOG and has nothing bad to say about it. I work a full time job and homeschool the kids. TOG I love very much but it is too intensive for me. I am spending more time planning and finding books or trying to find a replacement due to the library not having it or it is OOP. The boys want a open and go but fun books. I do not want to use textbooks and neither the boys. I want to keep all the kids on the same cycle for history. My R boy likes the organization of TOG however is tired of me trying to plan and make workbooks. He wonders if there is a program that is similiar but less intensive on my part where he doesn't have to depend on me to get the books and make the workbooks. Geography: All kids need help in this area for current geography. One drawback of TOG is no current stuff on Geo. Do like the fact they learn about the time period of geography. Another concern we share, and which makes BJU's 9th geography appeal to me. Right now we are debating holding my oldest home for another year. He is currently a Junior. We are debating not letting him go to college until he is 19. He will benefit greatly with another year at home. It is HIS decision. We are talking about it with him. He is in a serious committed relationship with his girlfriend. She is 2 years younger than him. Both parents are encouraged by their relationship. :) PTL!! However the drawback is he wants to start college and start life with her when she is halfway though college. Her parents do not want her married until she is 20 or older. He sees both options as positive. So this is a big factor in our decision to stop TOG or continue. He sees the positive of staying home another year and not graduate till 2014. His friend is doing the same thing. We do not know yet of his decision. Still talking and praying.... Continue in next post: A close friend's son may be doing the same. What a blessing for you and the other parents to feel so comfortable about their relationship! Now my questions: MFW is being considered. I am so so confused about how to keep kids on same cycle. If I decide on MFW what is the best route to go with after finishing up TOG yr 3. We should be done by beginning of February unless we stop and go deeper like we did with Civil War. How do I keep the kids on the same cycle? My main concern is the doctrine. We do not like Rick Warren's stuff. Kay Arthur is ok but hubby prefer to use stuff that the Restoration Movement uses. I can see from postings that I can pick and choose. I'm in agreement with you on this. It's one of the reasons I didn't use MFW. If I thought it might be an option I would have substituted materials. It seems that many people do so successfully. Do I have to come up with writing assignments on MFW? Remember I know nothing about MFW but I do like what I ssee on the sample pages. Having 3 kids on different levels will make the teacher book costly for me (90 dollars a piece and this doesn't even include the other books). Again I love TOG. I just do not have time to do it. I have to let go of my dream of using it. (I can't even resell my tog sadly....) Thanks!! Holly My biggest reasons for not using MFW were that I could not decide on a way to keep everyone on the same cycle. I also thought we would end up ahead in some aspects of the schedule and not in others, which would make scheduling confusing for me. I think I remember that the MFW divisions for history were somewhat off from those of other curriculum, making it more difficult to switch into another program. I haven't looked at MFW in over a year, but I did like the content I saw in the samples. I just didn't think it would end up being a good fit at the time. Hope you get more answers that are helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm avoiding this thread.. maybe I have a piece to help with though. If I decide on MFW what is the best route to go with after finishing up TOG yr 3. We should be done by beginning of February unless we stop and go deeper like we did with Civil War. High school year 4, and maybe 1850MOD for the other 2. How do I keep the kids on the same cycle? you don't really "have" to, but if you want to? uh uh uh uh uh.... where's Julie.. where's Donna???? hs year 4, 1850MOD now go to ECC for anyone under high school. or maybe the high schooler could use parts of it as geography. Do they seperate US history and World history? I prefer together but R son prefers seperatly. high school levels - world and US are separated. 5 year cycle - SOTW. together. My main concern is the doctrine. We do not like Rick Warren's stuff. Kay Arthur is ok but hubby prefer to use stuff that the Restoration Movement uses. I can see from postings that I can pick and choose. PDL is one book in AHL. it's not a big critical part of the program. yes, you can sub if you want to. if you buy packages and it's all cheaper, sell the stuff you don't want. I'm guessing you saw the recent thread on those books so I won't link. Do I have to come up with writing assignments on MFW? Not in high school. In fact, that's how a lot of the discussion time is done. You read what they are thinking, and help on writing editing and discussion comes then. In other years, it's "notebooking" and other assignments with outlining and such. then you do "writing program" ala writing strands or anything. Remember I know nothing about MFW but I do like what I ssee on the sample pages. Having 3 kids on different levels will make the teacher book costly for me (90 dollars a piece and this doesn't even include the other books). I think it would be 2 levels. I'm able to use plenty of parts of 5 year stuff with my youngest , who is 9 and autistic. I don't know what you "should" do. I don't know if any of that helps. -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 wait a minute..... MFW does use textbook in high school US history - BJU. wanted to make sure on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Now my questions: MFW is being considered. I am so so confused about how to keep kids on same cycle. Yes, MFW lets the high schoolers go from the family cycle. Of course, some families adapt, but most of the high schoolers I've chatted with have really felt held back by staying with their younger sibs. If I decide on MFW what is the best route to go with after finishing up TOG yr 3. We should be done by beginning of February unless we stop and go deeper like we did with Civil War. MFW strongly recommends starting high schoolers "in the beginning," with their own individual history cycle. They'll understand "the beginning" at a different level know, and the beginning affects everything else. Do they seperate US history and World history? I prefer together but R son prefers seperatly. MFW schedules high schoolers this way: 1. Ancient history, which doesn't really have much about the Americas. 2. World history, which starts with the Romans and the time of Christ. It has the Americas along the way but not as a focus. Plus there's an extra 1/4 credit of geography. 3. US history to 1877 and Government (half credit each) 4. US history to the present and Economics (half credit each), plus the other 1/4 credit geography. My main concern is the doctrine. We do not like Rick Warren's stuff. Kay Arthur is ok but hubby prefer to use stuff that the Restoration Movement uses. I can see from postings that I can pick and choose. It sounds like you read the other thread & got these answered. Do I have to come up with writing assignments on MFW? No, never. They are planned, including the weight towards the final grade. There are also places you can get outside feedback if you need help grading (the yahoo group, the MFW board). Having 3 kids on different levels will make the teacher book costly for me (90 dollars a piece and this doesn't even include the other books). You do have permission to copy the grid for each child, which would basically be 36 pages each. The main manual will need to be shared, though, as I can't imagine copying the whole thing. There are some pages that you would also probably copy, whether they each had a manual or not, such as the Greek alphabet pages (well, I guess my son could've written in the book; I copied those onto cardstock). Again I love TOG. I just do not have time to do it. I have to let go of my dream of using it. (I can't even resell my tog sadly....) I had a few things I enjoyed using with my older dd, so I brought them into my youngest's MFW work. I just chose something I didn't feel he needed or I felt was duplicated in my extra materials, crossed it out on the grid, and penciled in the other thing. I also included something in the "parent meeting" time sometimes. But totally not necessary, just if you are feeling sad about missing something :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Background first: We have been using TOG for the past 3 years. Yr 1, 2 and 3. Right now I have a R son (16 soon to be 17 yrs old), D son (14 yr old) and LG daughter (she is 12 but due to her special needs she is LG). My daughter is ok with using TOG. I have a very hard time finding the books that TOG recommends at the LG level and the other level which name escapes me at the moment. My two boys do not like TOG. My D son says it is not fun at all. My R son says it is ok but really rather focus more on American history. We are in Yr 3 Unit 4. He feels there is not enough time on US history. He doesn't like the questions being asked in the workbooks I make for them. I do the workbooks like one of the posters on here. I can't remember her name either. (new laptop guys so none of my bookmarks have been transferred yet) I don't worry about finding grammar stage books, I either use SOTW or use whatever books I have in my home library or public library. Honestly for American History my younger children listened to SOTW audio or watched Liberty's Kids. Karen Ciavo makes the workbooks, keep in mind that Karen has a much smaller family and is very good at working TOG to make it work for her. I know Karen and this is how she make TOG work in her family I am sure she would tell you that if it doesn't work for you then don't do it. So, I am wondering why you are making workbooks for you R level son, finding books for him etc.? You are working way too hard. If he wants to do more American HIstory, or doesn't like the books, why not let him look at the Threads and People, the alt resources, and if he doesn't like them let him do his own research? Why not let him read some the the alt resources like the John Adams biography and just write about it? I use a lot of WTM suggestions for how we interact with TOG. I don't always do all of the discussion outline, I will pick a few key things to discuss and then leave the rest alone. You must find a way to edit what you do. Give your R and D level students more responsibility in working their plan and planning their work. If they want more fun, then let them figure out what would be more interesting for them, let them find projects or books that interest them. Allow them to go on rabbit trails to dig into an idea or subject that interests them. I work a full time job and homeschool the kids. TOG I love very much but it is too intensive for me. I am spending more time planning and finding books or trying to find a replacement due to the library not having it or it is OOP. The boys want a open and go but fun books. I do not want to use textbooks and neither the boys. I want to keep all the kids on the same cycle for history. My R boy likes the organization of TOG however is tired of me trying to plan and make workbooks. He wonders if there is a program that is similiar but less intensive on my part where he doesn't have to depend on me to get the books and make the workbooks. I have not found anything that does this as well as TOG. For english: we are using Analytical Grammar with the boys. My daughter is using SWB's FLL and WWE. My middle school boy is using the WWS (he needs a lot of work in area of writing...he is not my liberal arts guy...my oldest is). We are using these as well. Geography: All kids need help in this area for current geography. One drawback of TOG is no current stuff on Geo. Do like the fact they learn about the time period of geography. Current geography will be studied in Year 4 Continue in next post: Here is the what I see you saying, you really like TOG, your kids have issues with it. So why not address the issues instead of hopping to something new? If you were saying you hated TOG then I could see changing. Why do I tell you this? MY R level Dd does not like TOG either, so I made changes and let her choose some of her books. I really wanted Dd to make a timeline, she had no interest. I purchased the Timeline book in WTM and she loves it...looks up all of the timeline sections on the TOG assignment page. I let her read WTM R section on Great Books and HIstory, now she makes history pages with notes and I pick a few questions from the SAP to either discuss or as a writing assignment. I spend a lot less time planning TOG, and now I start with the discussion outline and choose what I see as important and we focus on that. I spent all summer trying to find a way to teach all levels well without TOG, it was time wasted I found I could use TOG and not tie my students to the things they hated about it. I have used MFW (not highschool) I have written about it in the past and I don't want to start a debate with MFW users. I only advise that you look at the books that they use and be sure that you like them, otherwise you will be in the same boat as now except you will not have alt resources that are scheduled for you. I don't see this as the issue, I really hate to see people pay more money for curriculum when they don't have to. If you had MFW and liked it I would suggest ways to make it work. Allow yourself to use TOG as an outline for what you study and allow your students to feel free from restrictions. Hope this helps! :grouphug::grouphug: (Eta: I don't want to give the impression that there is somethng wrong with MFW, it is a very good curriculum it did not work for us.) Edited January 3, 2012 by M&M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 I purchased the Timeline book in WTM and she loves it...looks up all of the timeline sections on the TOG assignment page. Is this in the newest WTM book? I let her read WTM R section on Great Books and HIstory, now she makes history pages with notes and I pick a few questions from the SAP to either discuss or as a writing assignment. So no workbooks? How do you keep everything together? Do you print anything for her? I spend a lot less time planning TOG, and now I start with the discussion outline and choose what I see as important and we focus on that. I spent all summer trying to find a way to teach all levels well without TOG, it was time wasted I found I could use TOG and not tie my students to the things they hated about it. Thank you so much!! This is what I needed to hear. I have a lot to think about I believe!! A question for you: How do you handle the literature portion? I am disappointed that they do not offer much readings that I would like for my kids to read. Just curious. you can pm me if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thank you so much!! This is what I needed to hear. I have a lot to think about I believe!!A question for you: How do you handle the literature portion? I am disappointed that they do not offer much readings that I would like for my kids to read. Just curious. you can pm me if you want. Here is the timeline book http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_9?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=timetables+of+history&sprefix=timetable For Lit, we are trying something new as we have just started Y3 today. I have dd read A Tale of Two Cities, which is not schedlules, we will do Pride and Prejudice but I will not use all of the R level lit questions. Some of the R level stuff just makes my head spin! So, I will use WEM and have dd write something and we will discuss picking and choosing. Must go right now will post more in a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I am using this book to help me with some of the lit and I had dd read some of it as well when we did Guilliver's Travels. http://www.amazon.com/Invitation-Classics-Always-Wanted-Masterworks/dp/080106810X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325560656&sr=1-3 this I studied more of the Year 3 books in High School and College, so I feel more confident using TOG and making changes to their lists. I check WTM and Ambleside for ideas. We did not do all the R level Shakespeare from Y2, so I will probably add a play this semester as well. I found this book to be helpful http://www.amazon.com/Brightest-Heaven-Invention-Christian-Shakespeare/dp/1885767234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325561009&sr=1-1 We also have some of the Teaching Company lectures, dd will sometimes watch a lecture and then we will discuss or sometimes we just move on. We use these for history and literature. When we have a really crazy week, I will just have dd listen to Pop Quiz or watch a lecture and we move on. I feel a burden is lifted off of me now that I really make TOG work for me. I used to feel like I was chasing the TOG train down the tracks, now it chases me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I am using this book to help me with some of the lit and I had dd read some of it as well when we did Guilliver's Travels. http://www.amazon.com/Invitation-Classics-Always-Wanted-Masterworks/dp/080106810X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325560656&sr=1-3 this I studied more of the Year 3 books in High School and College, so I feel more confident using TOG and making changes to their lists. I check WTM and Ambleside for ideas. We did not do all the R level Shakespeare from Y2, so I will probably add a play this semester as well. I found this book to be helpful http://www.amazon.com/Brightest-Heaven-Invention-Christian-Shakespeare/dp/1885767234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325561009&sr=1-1 We also have some of the Teaching Company lectures, dd will sometimes watch a lecture and then we will discuss or sometimes we just move on. We use these for history and literature. When we have a really crazy week, I will just have dd listen to Pop Quiz or watch a lecture and we move on. I feel a burden is lifted off of me now that I really make TOG work for me. I used to feel like I was chasing the TOG train down the tracks, now it chases me! Thank you for your helpful posts! I am wondering if you can explain how you use the TC lectures. Do you plan when to use them? How do you decide when to fit them in? Do you use them instead of TOG for the week or in addition to? I have access to many of them from our local library, but I've never been able to figure out how to fit them in. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) If you and your dc truly want to stay with TOG then as others have mentioned, it is entirely do-able for you with some modifications. But you mentioned that your boys don't like TOG...so I am a tad confused. Anyhow, let me just say that if you were to decide to go with MFW, you will have your children in different time periods. It would be too hard to NOT have them that way. Too much adjusting and tweaking. I just do not think your oldest would want to go back to Ancient History when he wants American so badly. Since you say he is a good writer then I'm sure he would be fine jumping into MFW American History/Government which uses BJU and other sources, but I would not start your 14yo there. For him (I'm assuming he is or will be in high school?) I would start with Ancients. For your 12yo, I would pick either Y4 to coincide with your 16 yo, or Y2 which will coincide with your 14 yo. If she has not done any American history I would probably go with Y4, then she could move through the MFW year plans and be ready for Ancients in high school. In regards to having them in the same time period. TOG is best for that, but if you're looking for independence MFWs high school is MADE for the student to work independently of you. The Daily Lesson Plans book is written TO them, it is their schedule, their assignments clearly scheduled out for them each and every day. The only thing that has to be added in...and there are blank squares for this...is your choice of science, math, foreign language, and/or any electives. With MFW high school, you come together on Friday...and they purposefully leave Friday's schedule a tad light for this...and just go over what they have learned through the week. If you are reading the bible schedule with them, then you discuss some of the things that stood out to you. Etc. It is not at all like TOG's discussions. Not even remotely as time consuming. With MFW it is more of an accountability time, not a teaching time. I love this so much better than TOG's weekly discussion which rarely got done here because, quite frankly, I didn't have the time or the gumption to read all of those boring teacher's notes. :blush: Anyhow, comparing TOG and MFW for high school is somewhat hard because though they are the same in some ways, they are miles apart in others. TOG is far more teacher intensive, and MFW is not at all! You can MAKE MFW as teacher intensive as you want, but it truly is designed for your child to work independently of you. As for the younger years of MFW, I have not used any of those but Y4 looks like it would be a fun choice for your dd. And while your older boys are working independently, you can spend more time with her. And as for MFWs doctrine... We are reformed (Calvinists) and we really are not finding anything super objectionable. Most of Christendom believe that one has free will in salvation, so we know that unless we are expressly using a reformed curriculum that teaches God's sovereign election in salvation...which are few and far between...we will run into man "choice" and all that. No biggie. Just because we believe someone comes to repentance and salvation differently does not mean that the other camp are not our brothers and sisters in Christ. The doctrine taught in MFW is pretty mainstream and is what most Christians, regardless of denomination, agree on. Or so this has been our experience so far with AHL. My best advice is to pray about it. Pray that the Lord will show you which way to go with your dc's education. Both TOG and MFW are excellent choices. ;) Edited January 3, 2012 by Melissa in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 If you and your dc truly want to stay with TOG then as others have mentioned, it is entirely do-able for you with some modifications. But you mentioned that your boys don't like TOG...so I am a tad confused.Yes they do not like TOG. My R son said that they focus too much on policies of Britain and not enough on the policies of US Presidents. Not enough about America. Boring books to read. (Not sure where he is figuring the boring thing out. He has read some hard books in outside classes. My D son do not like any of the books. He says they are boring. He has the same problem with TOG not focusing on American History such as the Old West key players of that time (after Civil War). Both feel that TOG focuses too much on World History than American history even though we are studying both World and US History. They feel it is lopsided. I can see from this complaint that we probably need to add stuff for American History in addition to TOG. That means more work on my part in putting this into schedule??? sigh!! I talked to them more today. And as for MFWs doctrine... We are reformed (Calvinists) and we really are not finding anything super objectionable. We are not Calvinists. I can see we can easily sub our materials in place of it if it is a problem such as Rick Warren's book (purpose driven life). My best advice is to pray about it. Pray that the Lord will show you which way to go with your dc's education. Both TOG and MFW are excellent choices. ;) Hubby and I are going to have another discussion with the boys on this. It would be great if I can spend more time with my daughter (she really needs more time with me). I really love TOG. I do see it is missing some important things in our history that are very important to the boys. They loved year 2 even though it was rough. I also added several weeks of colonial studies though and had the boys write reports that wasn't scheduled. (also did this beginning of year 3 as well as it continued from yr 2). On the other hand, I love SWB's wtm recommendation for Yr 4 readings. It is similiar to TOG recommendations. However I think my R boy would love what M&M's dd is doing in regards to WTM suggestions for history outlining and timeline. I also want my boys to be on the happy side. Yes I know they will have to deal with not having any say when they get to college. However the reason I homeschool is to instill a love of learning and my boys are not getting that with TOG. :mellow: Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 TOG is our spine, I use TC dvd's as a supplement for the most part. For history I look at the threads, people, and topics for the week and see what lectures I have that correspond. Somtimes I preview a lecture and see if it stays on topic for us or if it goes in a direction we don't need to go into. Sometimes a lecture goes way deeper than our studies need to take us. For literature I do the same thing, if I have a lecture that covers our book, then we read the book and then watch the lecture. This leads to some good discussion and some good writing topics. As far as how I decide when to use them, I try not to overwhelm my dc with too many of the lectures on top of TOG. I don't have any set way of using them, I have a lot of lectures too many for one student. Sometimes dd will ask for a lecture, sometimes I don't have all the books I need, so we will read from Western Civ or an American History resource and then watch a lecture. I use them like I do most of the resources that I own, as they fit into our daily rhythm. In some ways I guess I am unstructured in what resources we use, dc read and study the week's topic and then I pull it together with the discussion outline. I like having so much to choose from in my home library and in TOG, I think it allows for my dc to become more independant in their learning and discerning in bias and worldview in the resources that they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am thinking I need to add Speiglovel to my library. Where is the cheapest place I can get this?? This would be a good compromise for my R son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am thinking I need to add Speiglovel to my library. Where is the cheapest place I can get this?? This would be a good compromise for my R son. I found my copy on the WTM For Sale board. There is one for sale right now at homeschool classifieds, 6th edition for $25. http://www.homeschoolclassifieds.com/show_search.asp?searchWords=western+civilization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Coming back to this thread to update. I have decided to stick with TOG for next year for 9th, b/c it's truly the best fit for our family. I spent the last 2 days researching and watching online classes and reading posts here, looking for a way to shift the history teaching from me to a different curriculum or online class (and driving Dh and friends crazy with descriptions of curriculum/classes and pros and cons.) I looked at Lampstand Learning Center, VP Omnibus, including online classes, Potter's school, BJU texts and DVDs, Cornerstone Curriculum and a few others. In the end I decided nothing else is going to be as good a fit for us for several reasons... 1. Ds is a history lover and loves reading all the books TOG suggests. He wants to continue with TOG. 2. I can schedule Dd in 5th in the same history topics. 3. TOG is going to allow me to be more flexible regarding book choices, topics to focus on, assignments vs. using something online. I realize I could make any of the curriculum choices into whatever I want, but TOG is going to give me more structure within the flexibility and allow me to tweak a little more easily. We need this flexibility especially b/c of several local professional mentors who are willing to work with my children free of charge. We have to go to them when they have time and adjust schoolwork accordingly. (That makes following another teacher's online plan very difficult.) They are busy people and cannot work around our schedule. One of the reasons we homeschool is so Dc can have these sorts of opportunities. 4. I like the literature selections with TOG slightly better than other programs. 5.LLC- not an option. The samples we saw online in no way measure up to what we are doing at home. Dh was especially unimpressed. AND, too expensive. (Sorry, hope I'm not offending those who like their classes) 6. TOG is the best option for me to tailor the topics and learning to my history/lit loving Ds and, while the discussions bog us down at times, they also allow Ds to hear our family's point of view, vs BJU's POV or an online teacher's. Besides making the learning more tailored to our family, it helps build relationships. Granted you can monitor and insert your own thoughts into other programs, but I think the TOG discussions sort of force you to do so. I also know that if I gave over the teaching to someone else I probably would not be as likely to stay aware of the ideas being discussed. I'm going to save outsourcing for later in high school when it comes to preparing for AP tests. I may outsource Latin, which is time intensive for me and will free up some of my time. 7. While I liked the BJU texts, I know Ds is getting more depth with TOG. So, now I have to use the many suggestions I've read here to tame the beast and make it work for us. I'll be thinking about just how to do so and planning during the summer so that it will go more smoothly next year. Besides combing the forums for ideas, I'll be taking suggestions from Ds and Dh about how to make it work better. I'm planning to get Dh more involved in the history discussions and add in some TC lectures for us to watch as a family. I will have to look ahead in TOG and see where I might want to use them since I do not own them and will be borrowing from the library. I'll have to have a rough plan, at least. Anyway, long drawn out explanation of why we'll be sticking with TOG. I'm interested to hear if others have come to the same conclusion, or decided on something else as a better fit (though I will NOT pop over to any websites to check it out). I'm so relieved not be eating sleeping, and breathing curriculum and decisions for next year! Whew!:hurray: Also wondering if there should be a new thread about how you make TOG work for you in High School. I have these saved... http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195351&highlight=tog http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172816&highlight=tog http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176465&highlight=tog http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329562 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 [size=3 Also wondering if there should be a new thread about how you make TOG work for you in High School. I have these saved... http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195351&highlight=tog http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172816&highlight=tog http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176465&highlight=tog http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329562 [/color][/size] Thank you so much for giving us an update!! I totally agree with the above bolded statement you made. :) Do you want to start the thread? :D Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thank you so much for giving us an update!! I totally agree with the above bolded statement you made. :) Do you want to start the thread? :D Holly I'd like to, but I want to get together a list of the ideas I already have from various posts first. Maybe then I can post them and see if anyone has anything to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'd like to, but I want to get together a list of the ideas I already have from various posts first. Maybe then I can post them and see if anyone has anything to add. You do that and post when you are ready. I will keep a close eye on this board for your post. :) Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songbirdie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 One thing to remember about MFW is that Rick Warren's doctrine is in no way taught anywhere whatsoever *outside* of reading "The Purpose Driven Life". If you don't want it, just skip the book. There were no writing assignments on that book, nor discussion questions. Just cross it out. Same thing with the Kay Arthur study - it is on the book of Daniel in the year we have. Just skip it if you want - it only takes up a few weeks in the semester anyway, and you can just have them do their own Bible study without her book. If the only 2 things about MFW is the Warren/Arthur aspects, those are easily skipped by simply crossing out the assignments in the daily lesson plans. That will literally only take you 3 minutes and it will be out of there. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songbirdie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And if you have any further questions about that year of MFW, just message me. For some reason, I don't get email notifications after posting in a thread anymore. (Even when I click "subscribe to thread". . .hmmm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 One thing to remember about MFW is that Rick Warren's doctrine is in no way taught anywhere whatsoever *outside* of reading "The Purpose Driven Life". If you don't want it, just skip the book. There were no writing assignments on that book, nor discussion questions. Just cross it out. minor point of view difference on that... No major essays are assigned from PDL. *one assignment is based on the premise of the book - the students are encouraged to write a vision statement for their lives. That can be done without reading the book however. ;) *and during the time the book is read, students are encouraged to use the Bible verse in each chapter as a memory verse if they want to. Or they can use other verses from regular Bible reading, Proverbs, etc. But there is "copywork" on Bible verses. Use whatever translation you prefer. and if you prefer to not use the suggested verses in PDL chapter, that's ok. so, yes, very flexible to do similar assignments and skip the book The only reason I'm getting that "nit picky" is that when MFW told me there were no assignments with the book, I was head tilting to see those things. They had said one thing and gave me an idea that it was just read the book. But.... I know now what they mean -- no essays, no discussion questions to ponder, the verses are optional.... -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.