Math Advice Needed

[TheAutumnOak]

My son is not yet in high school, but I am in need of advice and am hoping I can get some here...My son is in 5th grade and is working on a 3rd grade level in math...He is actually an older 5th grader, as he turned 11 in September...I am not sure how to bring him up to speed so that he will be able to complete high school level math courses...I feel like time is running out for us...

 

Has anyone taken a child who was far behind in math and bought him/her up to speed?...How did you do it?...I would appreciate any advice...

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Tahara, my son wasn't quite that far behind but I was concerned about high school. Math Mammoth brought him up to speed. We did the fifth and sixth grade books in one year and got him ready for seventh grade pre-algebra.

 

He was behind due to health issues. He wasn't able to learn much, academically, from ages 5-8. The language skills were made up easily once his health improved, but math was a problem. I'd tried several different programs without much understanding on his part. Finally MM make perfect sense to him.

 

I feel as if I lucked out. Math Mammoth just spoke his language, I guess.

 

Do you know why your son is so far behind? Did he get a late start? Are there known learning disabilities?

[regentrude]

.My son is in 5th grade and is working on a 3rd grade level in math.

Has anyone taken a child who was far behind in math and bought him/her up to speed?...How did you do it?...I would appreciate any advice...

 

I have no personal experience, but the answer how to proceed would have to depend on the reason he is behind.

Has he always been having difficulties with math? If so, have you had him evaluated for a possible learning disorder? If he has dyscalculia, this has to be addressed, simply waiting for improvement is not going to help.

Or did he not receive a consistent math instruction during the past five years? In that case, you need to find out where he has holes in his math knowledge and then backtrack to fill the holes.

 

Being two years behind is not the end of the world; if he did not have good math instruction, now would be the time to begin working on math regularly and consistently. You do not have to worry about high school yet, because a standard time table would be algebra in 9th grade. Prior to that, he needs to master arithmetic (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) with integers, and then with fractions and negative numbers. You have several years to accomplish this, that's plenty of time.

 

How far in math is your son? Is he solid on his times tables?

I have no specific curriculum suggestion; there are many options at elementary and middle school level. I would go back as far as needed, and then work through the material at increased speed; this should be easier for him because he is older than the target audience of his curriculum.

[TheAutumnOak]

He has no learning disabilities that I know of...We were doing a Waldorf curriculum before this one (we switched over from Waldorf during last year)...The curriculum was not strong in math, and he has not had much exposure to math outside of that...Now he is having a difficult time picking it up...He went to a Waldorf school for first grade and has homeschooled for 2nd, 3rd, and part of 4th using a Waldorf curriculum...

[TheAutumnOak]

How far in math is your son? Is he solid on his times tables?

I have no specific curriculum suggestion; there are many options at elementary and middle school level. I would go back as far as needed, and then work through the material at increased speed; this should be easier for him because he is older than the target audience of his curriculum.

 

He is not solid on his times tables...We have started going over it and drilling, but he says they are hard to remember...We may have to come up with consequences for not knowing them, as I think he doesn't spend enough time studying them on his own...

[Twilight Woods]

I did a math intensive summer with my now 5th grader. After having her do a few placement tests to see if she was consistent in what she knew and what she didn't know I did the following:

 

I used a combo of Miquon/SM/Mathwhizz and Dreambox with her. I essentially started back at the 3rd grade level with her. We were able to go through some parts fast, skip some parts all together and slow down on the gaps. We drilled math facts till they were solid.

 

She did not like me very much this past summer :)

 

She is now where she needs to be [with the exception of reducing fractions]. I think what helped her the most was solidifying her math facts and with each sucess she attained she grew more confident in herself as well.

 

This summer we will be starting MM 6a with an incentive chart.

 

HTH.

[kiana]

He is not solid on his times tables...We have started going over it and drilling, but he says they are hard to remember...We may have to come up with consequences for not knowing them, as I think he doesn't spend enough time studying them on his own...

 

Many 11yo are not really ready to study on their own, especially not on a "do this every day" basis. He may need ongoing supervision and/or a checklist.

[Mama Lynx]

In 5th grade, with no learning disabilities, I wouldn't worry. I know you feel like time is running out, but really, you have *plenty* of time.

 

All my kids have hit bumps. The math road has not been smooth for us :) My oldest took an entire year to do Singapore 3A, a book which generally is meant to take half a semester. He then took a year and a half to get through algebra I. But for all his slow spots, he's hit spots where he's been able to sail through more quickly and catch us up in terms of time.

 

My current 5th grader struggles some with math. We are having to do extra work on times tables. He's working about a year behind in math at the moment. I'm not worried though - this is my 3rd child so I know that we've got time. We will just keep working at it, steadily.

 

My advice is to just keep working steadily. Make sure he's solid on his basics. Look around to see if a different math curriculum might be a better fit for him. Don't let high school spook you - it's still four years away and *anything* can happen in those four years. :)

[Elizabeth in WA]

For learning the tables, I would not impose consequences. I would require daily written drill consisting of 50-100 problems starting with a limited set of facts and lower number of problems. Gradually add more facts as they are mastered and incrase the number of problems as they get more automatic. This should take ~5 minutes and not more than 10 every day. Kumon is expensive, but effective, though you can fairly easily print drill sheets online and correct them yourself if you aren't looking to outsource the tedium involved.

 

Catching up an easily be done just by schooling math year-round. I wouldn't try to rush it. Strong foundations in arithmetic are essential to later success in Algebra and beyond. One lesson a day five days a week most weeks of the year gets my kids through substantially more than a year of work each year.

[Teachin'Mine]

Many 11yo are not really ready to study on their own, especially not on a "do this every day" basis. He may need ongoing supervision and/or a checklist.

 

I agree. I would definitely work with him and encourage him rather than look to punish him if he doesn't. With math, practice, practice and more practice will help to cement the facts. Repetition is the key! Other than workbooks in the early elementary years, we've only used Saxon. I like it because of all the constant review. Each day's lesson has mental math as well as a facts practice sheet. There's a Saxon placement test available online which can give you an idea of which book to start with. If the test results aren't clear, you can call Saxon and speak with a math teacher about him for better guidance. This is where I would start, but I'm sure there are other good math programs. The main thing is to begin where he's at, keep drilling and practicing and doing math for a good amount of time each day - about an hour - and keep making progress. The hour can be broken up into two half hour segments if it's too long for him to stay focused on the math.

[regentrude]

He is not solid on his times tables...We have started going over it and drilling, but he says they are hard to remember...We may have to come up with consequences for not knowing them, as I think he doesn't spend enough time studying them on his own...

 

Then that's where I would start: learning the times tables.

I do not think imposing consequences is a useful tool. I would work WITH him, every single day. If he is a visual learner like my DD, he may learn them best by drawing himself a poster of the times table, color it, and hang it over his bed where he sees it several times a day. this did wonders for my DD, where oral drill was not the best tool.

[kiana]

The main thing is to begin where he's at' date=' keep drilling and practicing and doing math for a good amount of time each day - about an hour - and keep making progress. The hour can be broken up into two half hour segments if it's too long for him to stay focused on the math.[/quote']

 

Yes. Or even smaller. As a matter of fact, for cementing something into memory (I did this with German verbs as well) I found that the very best thing to do was to put about 5 flashcards a day in my pocket. Every time I thought about them I'd pull them out and go through them.

[choirfarm]

My youngest is in 4th grade and still doing 3rd grade math. For me, she had vision problems and had vision therapy in 1st and 2nd grade. Then I concentrated on reading. ( Well, actually we had been doing phonics all along. I didn't drop it exactly, but if your eyes don't work together, then that needs to be fixed first.) She reads VERY well now. In fact, that is all she wants to do. Now she hates math. For her, she has a hard time working on anything for a long amount of time. She has to work up to it. For drills I am using x-tra math. It will give him a progress test on add, sub, mult, or div depending on which one you want to work on. For her, she could only do a progress test and she would cry. Then the progress test and one race the teacher. I just put my fut down. She doesn't mind it anymore and can do the progress and 2 race the teachers that it asks for. That took about a month or so for her to be able to do.

 

I don't know anything about the Waldorf, but I am using Horizon. ( After several other ones.) We switched to it last year in the spring, so we are still in the 3rd grade book. First of all, I made sure we did math EVERY SINGLE DAY. At first she would do part of a sheet at different parts during the day. ( Her choice.) So if there were 8 long subtraction problems, she would do 4 of them. Then maybe 4 out of 8 time problems. She would finish the sheet later in the day. I recently started timing her and staying in the room and discovered, that it actually only took her 10 minutes to do that!! So I MADE her do the whole sheet. It took her 20 minutes. ( Much drama.) She is currently doing 2 of those a day now: one in the morning and one in the afternoon. x-tra math takes 10 minutes. So she is doing 50 minutes of math a day. 1 sheet in the morning, 1 sheet in the afternoon, and x-tra math in between. At this rate we will finish the 3rd grade level in 21 days. We will then move to 4th grade. I will not have her do 2 sheets then, partially because the lessons are twice as long ( 4 pages instead of 2).

 

We will be doing math during Christmas, spring break and the summer. Even when she has no other school, she will do this. She did part of TT 4 over the summer.

 

I am also reading Mathematicians are People too. She LOVES that. I have Murderous Math and Math for Smarty Pants as well. I am going for math immersion right now. I have seen some marked improvement this year. She needs her math muscles built up. Right now she can only work for about 20 minutes at a stretch, and she thinks that is torture. I'm trying to eventually get her to 45 minutes of math at a time. We'll get there.

 

She honestly doesn't need my help much with math, but I have to be right there. She has a table in my rooms and I fold socks or hand up clothes while she does it. If she needs my help, then she can ask.

 

I hope that helps. Math is her number one goal this year. Writing is also behind, and we are doing it, but immersion will be next year. I'm sure she will be thrilled! I can only seem to concentrate on one subject for each child.

[Free]

Then that's where I would start: learning the times tables.

I do not think imposing consequences is a useful tool. I would work WITH him, every single day. If he is a visual learner like my DD, he may learn them best by drawing himself a poster of the times table, color it, and hang it over his bed where he sees it several times a day. this did wonders for my DD, where oral drill was not the best tool.

 

I did something similar with my ds. He prepared for himself a times table booklet in various colours and he is allowed to refer to it if he forgets them when doing his sums. Consistency is practicing math sums and problems everyday is important for memorizing the times tables.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

He is not solid on his times tables...We have started going over it and drilling, but he says they are hard to remember...We may have to come up with consequences for not knowing them, as I think he doesn't spend enough time studying them on his own...

 

Multiplication facts were something that was getting intensive work at our house recently. One thing I found was that a sense of despair tended to creep over my son when I told him to go practice. But if I was there, flipping cards and making it a bit of a competition, he performed much better.

 

Sometimes I forget that my kids still want time with me, even if it is working on their 8's and 9's facts.

 

I also had a lot of opportunity to model problem solving self talk along the lines of "well 4's are the other number doubled twice" or "6 times 8 is the same as 8 times 5 plus another 8". I hear him talk himself through these techinques now, but I don't think he would have come up with them on his own. And it is the sort of use of the properties of math that will stand him in good stead when it comes to doing higher math like algebra.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

For learning the tables, I would not impose consequences. I would require daily written drill consisting of 50-100 problems starting with a limited set of facts and lower number of problems. Gradually add more facts as they are mastered and incrase the number of problems as they get more automatic. This should take ~5 minutes and not more than 10 every day. Kumon is expensive, but effective, though you can fairly easily print drill sheets online and correct them yourself if you aren't looking to outsource the tedium involved.

 

Catching up an easily be done just by schooling math year-round. I wouldn't try to rush it. Strong foundations in arithmetic are essential to later success in Algebra and beyond. One lesson a day five days a week most weeks of the year gets my kids through substantially more than a year of work each year.

 

I really like the fact sheet generator at Math Fact Cafe. I could tweak it so that it hit just a few fact families.

[Gwen in VA]

Please do NOT hold your son up if his only gap is knowing the times tables.

 

I am not sure why knowing the times tables by memory is a "requirement" for going on in math in our culture. While it is nice to know the times tables in mid-elementary school, your child will pick them up along the way. And if the times tables drive him to distraction, he will learn to hate math in the process of learning them.

 

Since your child is used to a hands-on approach, he may really love Miquon math. We did Miquon (love love love Miquon) which is very very hands-on. We then used 5th and 6th grade Foresman textbooks and then Dolciani for prealgebra and beyond.

 

I will not tell you at what age my kids learned their multiplication tables. I won't tell you when I learned multiplication tables! I will say that as a family we have a number of engineering degrees, even among the prolonged finger-counters, and my kids all finished calculus 2 by the end of high school. But we all counted on our fingers well beyond 2nd or 3rd grade -- since God provided a nifty base-ten counting system that automatically travels with us, why not use it?

 

If your son learns to enjoy math, the computation speed will come eventually.

[trafal]

I have not read all the replies so please excuse if I am repeating advice someone else gave. I have an incredibly non-mathy 11 yr old. She has struggled with math right from the very beginning. I have used a variety of math materials with her. Here is what has worked.

1. Be consistent. We do math 2 hours a day. That may seem like a lot but it is what she needs in order to learn the material.

2. Use hands on models when possible. Trying to google hands on activity + the math skill you are working on. Also, look for videos on youtube for those more difficult concepts.

3. Think about using Math-u-see. I know that curriculum gets dissed on these boards but for a certain type of student it is wonderful. I bought a used copy of the fractions video and teacher and student book for $20. The curriculum is not very rigerous but I use it as a supplement. Mr. Demme is great at explaining concepts.

4. We use a computer based program called Aleks. I use this for drill. I also assign a quiz from Aleks everyday and review the topics that she has learned in a consistent orderly fashion through the daily quizes. This is a neat program and somewhat student driven as students get to choose the topics they will work from a "pie" that contains all the topics for a particular grade.

5. Don't punish for the times tables. It took my dd literally months to learn them A free download that is helpful is a computer game called times attack. It does the work for you i.e. you don't have to say ,"What is 8 x9 for the 1000th time."

6. Look for books to help with particularly weak areas. For dd it was word problems. Singapore has a great series for elementary word problems.

It is possible to make progress in math. When testsed in 2010 (as required by our state) dd was on gradelevel in math for the 1st time ever.

HTH.

[Teachin'Mine]

Yes there are lots of great math games online which make learning math facts more fun. There's also a game I remember from a few years back, but I can't think of the name of it. Maybe someone can help me out. You hold it and it's oblong shaped, maybe blue, and it gives the math problems and they have to give the right answer quickly. If I remember right, it's a bit noisy which should appeal to 11yo boys. :lol:

[TheAutumnOak]

Thanks so much for all of the advice...I talked with him, and he would like for me to sit with him with mutiplication flash cards to help him remember...We will not take it to punishment and consequences...We agreed to work on math an hour a day for now and see how much that helps...I was given a plan of action below that we are going to shoot for to have him ready for high school and college...

 

Thanks so much you guys :001_smile:

 

First . . . don't despair! It will be alright! Your son can and will learn math!! ;)

Saxon has lots of built in review in 5/4, 6/5, 7/8, and 8/7. There is even opportunity to skip a level later. It sounds like your 11 yr. old placed in 5/4. It is MUCH better to start your child where he placed than to be concerned about the level on the front of the book. You'll find that the first 30 lessons will provide lots of review of basic concepts. If they are easy--great! If these lessons are challenging, then sit with your son and work the problems together. Spend extra time explaining concepts and using hands-on stuff to make the lessons tangible. If you are diligent, then you'll set your son up for greater success. Use the practice tests to ensure that he has his math facts down cold.

 

Saxon is a great curriculum that provides plenty of explination and practice. Here is a possible path:

 

5th: 5/4

6th: 6/5

7th: 7/6

8th: 8/7

 

9th: Algebra I (Saxon says you can skip Algebra 1/2 if you score 80% or better in 8/7)

10th: Algebra II

11th: Advanced Math

12th: Calculus

Edited December 13, 2011 by TheAutumnOak
Trying to fix quote

[Trilliums]

My son was also very behind in math in the elementary years. He struggled memorizing math facts. We did a lot of living math (math readers, measuring around the house, weighing things, comparing things etc.). Math curriculum just was not indicated for him! =)

 

7th grade he worked through about half of the 6th grade Everyday Math book. In 8th grade he completed Saxon 1/2 (pre-alg) AND Saxon Algebra 1 on his own and by his own choice. Now he is doing Art of Problem Solving Geometry as a 9th grader and he plans to start Alg 2 before the end of the school year.

 

Just wanted to let you know that you may not have to press him hard in math now. I personally think letting my son have some freedom when he was younger was the best thing for him. He seemed to need time for all of his parts to get caught up with each other. A benefit to relaxing in the early years has been that he has no negativity towards math. He recognizes that math computation is not a strong point for him, but he enjoys the conceptual aspects of math greatly. I think if we had gotten hung up in the computation part he would feel like a math failure now. Instead, he pushes himself harder in math because he now sees it as a tool to his future goals (going into engineering or physics).

 

Best luck with whatever you decide. :)

[Teachin'Mine]

Looks like a good plan! But don't worry by any means if you decide to add in Algebra 1/2 as it's great to solidify pre-algebra before moving onto algebra. :)

 

When you want to do facts practice but want something different than the flashcards, you can roll dice and multiply them. Two sets of regular dice will do, or you can buy 12 sided ones.

 

Just googled, and this set looks awesome! It has "dice" from 4 sides up to 20 sides, so you can really control what number sets you're working on.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Polyhedral-7-Die-Translucent-Dice-Set/dp/B000RZLRW8/ref=sr_1_8?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1323795210&sr=1-8

 

But there are lots of regular 12 sided ones too.

 

ETA: Just another thought. With Saxon, they recommend timing the facts practice sheets and stopping after 5 minutes - if I remember correctly. What you may want to do is have him finish the sheet and just put the time it takes him at the top. He'll see progress when he sees that he's able to do that same sheet in less time. Don't skimp on the correcting of these sheets as you want to make sure he corrects any that are wrong. There's no need to grade them, or any of the daily lessons. I just let my dd re-work any that were wrong and only graded the tests. YMMV : )

Edited December 13, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Ohdanigirl]

Yes, have brought child up to speed. He was behind due to the district not teaching grade level math in his class. The summer after 3rd, we started and completed Singapore 3A (about 9 weeks, 1 hr per day) in order to grab the concepts and then spent the next 9 weeks playing multiplication war twice a day to get his facts up to the speed necessary for his 4th grade class. Success breeds success here; play war with what he knows and give him time to process - his speed will increase with practice.

 

We had no trouble catching up by using Singapore Math; easy to do more than a grade level per year at an hour per day, 5 days per week. I added in Ed Zaccaro as he has fun problems that don't require sitting with pencil and paper.

 

My other advice is use a marker board and develop facility at problem solving. The marker board is risk-free - you don't like it, you erase it and you try something else. You don't get a mound of crumpled paper or sheets with cross-outs, you focus on what you need to solve the problem.

 

This is all great advice. Really, take a deep breath. You can do this. I also took a ds out of school to find that he was behind. I almost became completely overwhelmed. They had taken the urge to learn right out of him. It was slow, but eventually he reached a place that I am comfortable with. He is now in 7th, and doing very well with Pre-algebra.

 

SM did the trick with us, but I have seen MM, and am sure it can work as well. The trick is to find a curriculum and stick to it for awhile. If you switch before your dc is given time to adjust, he will simply develop more holes.

 

Also, do you do memory work? We have ours in a binder. I have added math stuff in, and this forces him to look at and recite it each day. It has really made a difference. Games are always great. You can also print out drill sheets. Take time for your self, and track improvements. Try not to stress your ds out about it, and work slowly, but deliberately. Again, you can do this.

 

Good luck.

 

Danielle

[choirfarm]

This is very similar to what I was doing. She had a math sheet and it would freak her out to try and beat the timer. So I set the timer for 20 minutes. We then wrote the time on the sheet. Most of the time it was 10 minutes or more for the first try. The second try might be 9:30, next one 9:15 and so on. She could see that she was making progress. I never could break the 5 minute mark, though. She typically got stuck around 6 minutes. Then we switched curriculum.

 

 

 

ETA: Just another thought. With Saxon' date=' they recommend timing the facts practice sheets and stopping after 5 minutes - if I remember correctly. What you may want to do is have him finish the sheet and just put the time it takes him at the top. He'll see progress when he sees that he's able to do that same sheet in less time. Don't skimp on the correcting of these sheets as you want to make sure he corrects any that are wrong. There's no need to grade them, or any of the daily lessons. I just let my dd re-work any that were wrong and only graded the tests. YMMV : )[/quote']

[foxbridgeacademy]

I would also suggest Math Mammoth. We use the "blue series", it covers each subject incrementally. Very small but quick steps to mastery.

[birchbark]

I can't recommend Times Tales enough for learning multiplication and division tables. So fast and easy!

[1Togo]

You might want to take a look at the Practical Arithmetic series to go along with your fact study. The PA books include lots of problem sets that will help build computation confidence and speed.