Halftime Hope Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Please help me understand (and be able to explain the difference between) a guilt trip vs. a request and an accompanying rational, logical explanation of why I want someone to do something. This needs to be appropriate (understandable) to both adults and teens. Backstory: I asked someone in my family to do something which, surprisingly (truly; no sarcasm) that person did not want to do--I would have thought they would enjoy doing the fun thing that I was proposing. I explained my thinking and logic, why the timing was important as there was a limited window of opportunity, etc. When I was done, the other person said that I was guilt tripping. I explained that guilt-tripping was using manipulation of said person's emotions to get what I wanted, not a polite request backed with logic, therefore it was in no way a guilt trip. I honestly feel that this person has heard the term "guilt-trip" and would like to label my request as such, as a means to justify not doing what I asked. Just because someone feels discomfort because they are not doing what I requested doesn't mean that I have manipulated them. Right? This is an important lesson as I go forward with this young family member. I already have one family member who has a huge "chip on the shoulder," and I'm trying to help the next one see reality in the world. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Sounds like the young family member is guilt tripping you, lol. That's one way to get out of something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 No matter how well rationalized, a "guilt trip" is when one person attempts to sway another to behave or do something they want the person to do and act to convince them of why their initial "no" is wrong....one doesn't usually engage in guilting another on purpose, but the effect is still there, the "here's the reason's why you need to do XYZ" are presented and that is what instills the guilt (or obligation to capitulate even if one doesn't want to do it). If this family member surprised you with a no, I'd accept it - you learned something about that person for the future and can find other things to do with them that they want to do....perhaps use the "no" for this thing to ask what they might want to do instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 If you truly offered a choice, then your version of logic would seem like a guilt trip to me. (I have done it to my children, though!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 No, I asked the person to do something and received a no (and, again, I was surprised by the no.) So, I explained why I wanted it--what I wanted to accomplish--and asked them to reconsider. Then they accused me of guilt-tripping. I don't think that the explanation and asking them to reconsider is a guilt trip; it's providing more information/context that they did not originally have. To me, what crosses the line into a guilt trip is when you are told no, then you try emotional manipulation to see if you can't change the answer. Does that help? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 No matter how well rationalized, a "guilt trip" is when one person attempts to sway another to behave or do something they want the person to do and act to convince them of why their initial "no" is wrong....one doesn't usually engage in guilting another on purpose, but the effect is still there, the "here's the reason's why you need to do XYZ" are presented and that is what instills the guilt (or obligation to capitulate even if one doesn't want to do it). If this family member surprised you with a no, I'd accept it - you learned something about that person for the future and can find other things to do with them that they want to do....perhaps use the "no" for this thing to ask what they might want to do instead? [/QUOTE] I'm going to agree with the wisdom of what I highlighted in blue, however... Taking what you said to its logical conclusion: if I am in my workplace and I present a solution for a problem without giving all the reasons for it, and my colleague says no to the solution, then I'm guilt-tripping them if I say, "Hold on, let me give you the reasons why this solution should be considered." ?? Do I make it my practice not allow another person to give an answer until I've made sure they heard the logic, because a second pass would be guilt-tripping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Putting someone on a guilt trip is akin to offering up what you believe is a logical and rational explanation to convince them to do something that you've already asked once and they've declined. ;) It sounds like their discomfort comes from your continued attempts to persuade them after you gave them the choice and they said no. It's not that you requested; it's that you still want them to change their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Taking what you said to its logical conclusion: if I am in my workplace and I present a solution for a problem without giving all the reasons for it, and my colleague says no to the solution, then I'm guilt-tripping them if I say, "Hold on, let me give you the reasons why this solution should be considered." ?? Do I make it my practice not allow another person to give an answer until I've made sure they heard the logic, because a second pass would be guilt-tripping? You're not in the workplace; you are in your home. Also, your twist of a "solution for a problem" at work sounds completely different from what you posted in your OP. Your OP suggested they were given an option. If they do not have the option, then it shouldn't be presented as such the first time you ask. It might work better if you were next time to choose different wording when asking your family member if they'd like to do something. Then they'd understand if they were being given the option to refuse or not.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Not a guilt trip: Mom, asking: son, will you go out to dinner with us? Son, declining: nah, I'm going to stay home. I have to study. Mom, explaining her position: ok, I just thought we should all go since it's Grandma's last night in town and we could get the whole family together. Son: I know. I just don't have time. Big test. I spent a lot of time with her yesterday. End of conversation. Guilt trip: Mom: fine, but Grandma's going to feel bad that you didn't care enough to spend time with her on her last night here. And she's not getting any younger you know! There might not BE a next time! It's a fine line, I know, between "explaining" and "guilt-tripping" lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) IMO guilt tripping is often more passive aggressive, or at least goes on and on about your own situation, not logic. Guilt tripping is usually self-centered. If you tried to make the other person feel guilty for disappointing you...either passively by going around like Eeyore, or giving a long list of consequences for yourself that result from their decision - that's a guilt trip. Logic about why you think they should reconsider that has nothing to do with consequences for yourself (or someone you are arguing on behalf of) to me is not really a guilt trip. It can be annoying as heck..but to me it's not an attempt to manipulate anyone by making them feel sorry for you or anyone else, so I wouldn't label it "guilt trip". Edited November 27, 2011 by laundrycrisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Putting someone on a guilt trip is akin to offering up what you believe is a logical and rational explanation to convince them to do something that you've already asked once and they've declined. ;) It sounds like their discomfort comes from your continued attempts to persuade them after you gave them the choice and they said no. It's not that you requested; it's that you still want them to change their mind. :iagree: My mother seems to not understand when I do not want to do the "fun" thing she suggests. She is shocked (honestly shocked) by my response. Every. Time. And then she feels the need to explain why it is fun and I want to do it. Because, obviously, I just didn't understand the question properly. :glare: So, yeah, whether you label it as guilt trip or just annoying, there it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Not a guilt trip: Mom, asking: son, will you go out to dinner with us? Son, declining: nah, I'm going to stay home. I have to study. Mom, explaining her position: ok, I just thought we should all go since it's Grandma's last night in town and we could get the whole family together. Son: I know. I just don't have time. Big test. I spent a lot of time with her yesterday. End of conversation. Guilt trip: Mom: fine, but Grandma's going to feel bad that you didn't care enough to spend time with her on her last night here. And she's not getting any younger you know! There might not BE a next time! It's a fine line, I know, between "explaining" and "guilt-tripping" lol. OOOOOH! Good One, Nance! :iagree: Emotional content definitely counts as guilt-tripping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 You're not in the workplace; you are in your home. Also, your twist of a "solution for a problem" at work sounds completely different from what you posted in your OP. Your OP suggested they were given an option. If they do not have the option, then it shouldn't be presented as such the first time you ask. It might work better if you were next time to choose different wording when asking your family member if they'd like to do something. Then they'd understand if they were being given the option to refuse or not.:confused: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Not a guilt trip: Mom, asking: son, will you go out to dinner with us? Son, declining: nah, I'm going to stay home. I have to study. Mom, explaining her position: ok, I just thought we should all go since it's Grandma's last night in town and we could get the whole family together. Son: I know. I just don't have time. Big test. I spent a lot of time with her yesterday. End of conversation. Guilt trip: Mom: fine, but Grandma's going to feel bad that you didn't care enough to spend time with her on her last night here. And she's not getting any younger you know! There might not BE a next time! It's a fine line, I know, between "explaining" and "guilt-tripping" lol. :iagree: This is the difference. If you present further info and logic, they still decline, and you drop it= no guilt trip. Playing on someones emotions to get them to do what you want is guilt tripping. IOW, deliberately trying to manipulate them based on emotion. What you did was not guilt tripping someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Putting someone on a guilt trip is akin to offering up what you believe is a logical and rational explanation to convince them to do something that you've already asked once and they've declined. ;) It sounds like their discomfort comes from your continued attempts to persuade them after you gave them the choice and they said no. It's not that you requested; it's that you still want them to change their mind. Frist off, this was all in the same conversation, not in multiple, separate conversations. By this definition, it sounds like the only way for me to get what I want is to either 1)tell the person what I want them to do and not give them a choice in the matter, or 2)effectively not allow them to get in a word edgewise, because I'd be guilt-tripping them if I ask, they manage to get in a no, and then I have to ask them to listen further. By that definition, I'm already in an untenable position. Kristine, it seems as though you are not the only person that perceives it this way, as several others agreed with you. How would you suggest I handle it? (Honest question.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 One person's simple logic is another person's emotionally-loaded pressure. It's hard for us to be able to judge this situation without any of the specifics, but I think it's entirely possible that you were more pressuring than you meant to be. The biggest red flag to me is what you said at the end of your OP about how "I'm trying to help the next [young family member] see reality in the world." It seems kind of intense to jump from a person's statement that they didn't like the way you spoke to them once to a conclusion that the person's worldview is off-track and needs correcting. By you. Also, you the part about using the idea of a guilt trip "as a means to justify not doing what I asked" seems pressuring to me. Unless you're in a relationship of authority to this person, they don't need to justify not doing what you asked. "No" is a complete sentence. Finally, the things about how shocked you are that they didn't want to do this fun thing they totally would have loved seem like emotional pressure to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Frist off, this was all in the same conversation, not in multiple, separate conversations. By this definition, it sounds like the only way for me to get what I want is to either 1)tell the person what I want them to do and not give them a choice in the matter, or 2)effectively not allow them to get in a word edgewise, because I'd be guilt-tripping them if I ask, they manage to get in a no, and then I have to ask them to listen further. By that definition, I'm already in an untenable position. Kristine, it seems as though you are not the only person that perceives it this way, as several others agreed with you. How would you suggest I handle it? (Honest question.) That depends. Do they have the option of declining, or is your intent to get what you want regardless of their wishes? "Darling family member. There is a special exhibit at the museum in a subject which I know interests you greatly. It is leaving next week, and I desperately want to see it before then. Would you like to go to the museum today?" "Darling family member. There is a special exhibit at the museum in a subject which I know interests you greatly. It is leaving next week. We'll be going this afternoon." or "Darling family member, Grandma will be at the airport at 2:00 today. I know how much you love driving around the airport parking lot; would you like to pick her up?" "Darling family member, Grandma will be at the airport at 2:00 today. I am unable to go because I have a prior commitment which I cannot break. I need you to pick her up and bring her back to my house." or "You've said you're going on a walk today. Would you mind taking the dog out with you? He's been driving me crazy, bouncing around the house, and I don't know if I'll have a chance." "You've said you're going on a walk today. Please take the dog with you; he needs to get out too, and I have too many other things going on." I'm still confused if they really did have a choice. They answered, and you tried to get them to change their mind, to convince them that it would, after all, be fun for them to do. And then what you wrote made it seem like they really didn't have a choice, you just wanted them to agree to what you wanted because you thought it was a great idea. (And was it a family member with whom you work, you were giving a solution to solve a problem? I wasn't sure how the work question came into play there either.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_midori Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Just because someone feels discomfort because they are not doing what I requested doesn't mean that I have manipulated them. Right? I think it is likely that if someone feels discomfort in telling you no then you didn't really ask the question (or provide backup info) in a way that would make it guilt-free to say no... Guilt trip could be a reasonable term for that. I can tell you right off that if I asked Xyz to do something I thought he'd jump on in excitement and he turned me down, my "logical explanation to why he should" would almost undoubtedly come out sounding a lot like "I can't believe you are turning down this thing that I really thought you'd like and am asking you to do just because I care about you and I really really want you to do it". If I really am NOT trying to guilt them into it, I'd have to be very careful to phrase my response as "gosh, ok - it really doesn't matter if you do it or not, but here's why I thought you should" (and I WOULD have to actually think about it - my gut reaction of irritation would probably make my words sound quite petulant). That you think the person is saying this just to justify not having to do what you ask means that you gave a yes/no option but REALLY wanted them to go with yes and are irate that they went with no - are you sure your response didn't reflect that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thank you, everyone, for your input. You've given me a lot to think about. Some of you clearly think the way I do about it, others have a different perspective. Off to process...and to take out the weekend's trash. ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Not a guilt trip: Mom, asking: son, will you go out to dinner with us? Son, declining: nah, I'm going to stay home. I have to study. Mom, explaining her position: ok, I just thought we should all go since it's Grandma's last night in town and we could get the whole family together. Son: I know. I just don't have time. Big test. I spent a lot of time with her yesterday. End of conversation. Guilt trip: Mom: fine, but Grandma's going to feel bad that you didn't care enough to spend time with her on her last night here. And she's not getting any younger you know! There might not BE a next time! It's a fine line, I know, between "explaining" and "guilt-tripping" lol. :iagree: This is the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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