Does anyone teach their child to count 'Asian Style'?

[my2boysteacher]

By that I mean; 7, 8, 9, 10, 10--1, 10--2

and instead of twenty, thirty, etc; 2--10, 3--10?

 

I know RS math teaches this way, but I don't plan on using this curriculum.

I've been reading a few books which detail differences between American and Asian math, and one states mental math is so much easier for Asian kids because they count in the above stated manner. Where Americans have to first translate 27+ 31 to 20+7 and 30+1 before they can work the problem, Asian kids are able to skip that step. They would say 2--10--7 + 3--10--1. and come up with 5--10--8 (58) Hope that makes sense!

 

I'm planning curriculum and teaching methods for my almost 4 year old DD. I think she is my little guinea pig- everything I wish I'd done with her brothers will be tested on her. :lol: Do you think there are advantages to teaching kids 'Asian Style' of counting?

[...................]

It worked. It really helped my son especially with writing the teens.

[lizziewho]

Yes it has worked with both my k and 1st grade using Right Start Math. They gained better understanding about place value and gives a strong math foundation! I used the abacus too in Mexico and it made a great visual tool!

[my2boysteacher]

What math curriculum did you use, and was it difficult for him to read the numbers one way, and say them another?

[Spy Car]

We did not "count" that way. However when we first modeled numbers using concrete manipulatives like Cuisenaire Rods and base-10 flats starting in Pre-school we ALWAYS talked about numbers like 365 as 3-Hundreds 6-tens 5-Units.

 

We also discussed the silly naming conventions we have in English for numbers like 1-Ten 2-Units, which we call "Twelve" and so on. So we learned "the English" too.

 

This continued through Kindergarten, and on occasion in First Grade if I saw a procedural error in progress, I might ask, "how many Tens? How many Units?" or the like.

 

I think this naming scheme made a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the understanding of numbers and developing a place value understanding and greatly aided mental math. But we never "counted" using the "math name" scheme.

 

I prefer our name scheme to that of RS.

 

Bill

Edited November 11, 2011 by Spy Car

[acurtis75]

Mathusee does something similar to this when teaching counting/numbers. I think it was on the alpha level. When you start making numbers above 10 with the blocks there is a lesson where you discuss place value and how you can only have 9 units before it becomes a ten. Then after 10 instead of saying eleven, twelve, etc the instructed calls them one-ty at first. Explaining that twenty is 2 tens and twenty one is two tens plus one but that in English the numbers between 10 & 20 have illogical names. Apparently in other languages it's more straight-forward. The first several lessons the numbers are called:

 

One T (for the 10) one which we call eleven

One t two which we call twelve

One t 3 which is thirteen...here the names start making more sense because it's 3 teen or 3 tens

 

I'm not sure that this makes sense typed out like this but it certainly solidified the concept as we went through it and is similar to the Asian concept. I think the teaching and understanding of place value early in math instruction is one of they key differences between the "asian" way and the way it's taught in the u.s.

[acurtis75]

We did not "count" that way. However when we first modeled numbers using concrete manipulatives like Cuisenaire Rods and base-10 flats starting in Pre-school we ALWAYS talked about numbers like 365 as 3-Hundreds 6-tens 5-Units.

 

We also discussed the silly naming conventions we have in English for numbers like 1-Ten 2-Units, which we call "Twelve" and so on. So we learned "the English" too.

 

This continued through Kindergarten, and on occasion in First Grade if I saw a procedural error in progress, I might ask, "how many Tens? How many Units?" or the like.

 

I think this naming scheme made a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the understanding of numbers and developing a place value understanding and greatly aided mental math. But we never "counted" using the "math name" scheme.

 

I prefer our name scheme to that of RS.

 

Bill

It seems you have stolen my answer. :) we must have been typing together. We didn't count using the math name either but did a lot of practicing building numbers with place value.

[boscopup]

We did not "count" that way. However when we first modeled numbers using concrete manipulatives like Cuisenaire Rods and base-10 flats starting in Pre-school we ALWAYS talked about numbers like 365 as 3-Hundreds 6-tens 5-Units.

 

We also discussed the silly naming conventions we have in English for numbers like 1-Ten 2-Units, which we call "Twelve" and so on. So we learned "the English" too.

 

This continued through Kindergarten, and on occasion in First Grade if I saw a procedural error in progress, I might ask, "how many Tens? How many Units?" or the like.

 

I think this naming scheme made a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the understanding of numbers and developing a place value understanding and greatly aided mental math. But we never "counted" using the "math name" scheme.

 

I prefer our name scheme to that of RS.

 

Bill

 

 

:iagree:This is basically what I'm doing with DS2, although I have been using "ones" instead of "units". I couldn't remember the term "units", and every curriculum I've seen calls it "ones", though I think "one one" sounds silly. :tongue_smilie: When we do our 100 chart everyday, I'll say "What comes after 23?", and if he has trouble, I'll say "It's 2 tens 4 ones... what is that called?", and he remembers "24". This seems to be working well for him. He's getting it. Slowly, but surely. Tonight, he was in the van trying to count to 100. He has previously thought that you just count to 20 and then count by 10s to 100. With all the emphasis on tens and ones when talking about numbers, he finally figured out to go by ones between each 10. He got a little confused in the 40s/50s range (I think doing 50s, then 40s, then 50s again), and part of that was likely speech related anyway, since 30/40/50 sound similar, but it was huge progress! He's definitely seeing the place value. I also use money to demonstrate, and I again emphasize it... "We have 2 dimes and 3 pennies, so that's 2 tens and 3 ones... How much money do we have?"

[EKS]

I did not teach them to count this way, but I did talk to them about it, and when we use different bases, we count that way. For example, in base six we would read the number 142 as 1-36, 4-6, 2.

[Spy Car]

Mathusee does something similar to this when teaching counting/numbers. I think it was on the alpha level. When you start making numbers above 10 with the blocks there is a lesson where you discuss place value and how you can only have 9 units before it becomes a ten. Then after 10 instead of saying eleven, twelve, etc the instructed calls them one-ty at first. Explaining that twenty is 2 tens and twenty one is two tens plus one but that in English the numbers between 10 & 20 have illogical names. Apparently in other languages it's more straight-forward. The first several lessons the numbers are called:

 

One T (for the 10) one which we call eleven

One t two which we call twelve

One t 3 which is thirteen...here the names start making more sense because it's 3 teen or 3 tens

 

I'm not sure that this makes sense typed out like this but it certainly solidified the concept as we went through it and is similar to the Asian concept. I think the teaching and understanding of place value early in math instruction is one of they key differences between the "asian" way and the way it's taught in the u.s.

 

I agree with the "problem," but for me the MUS naming scheme (One T One for 11 or Two T Two for 22) is bizarrely weird sounding.

 

1-Ten 1-Unit or 2-Tens 2-Units is much more descriptive and less weird sounding to my ear. This name scheme (unlike MUS and RS) gives eash place a name based on its place. Some might prefer "Ones" to "Units", but either way each digit gets a place name and that is to the best when teaching early math.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

:iagree:This is basically what I'm doing with DS2, although I have been using "ones" instead of "units". I couldn't remember the term "units", and every curriculum I've seen calls it "ones", though I think "one one" sounds silly. :tongue_smilie:

 

MEP and Miquon both use "Units" for place value but do not have a math name scheme. I too thought 1-Ones sounded strange so I went with "Units."

 

When we do our 100 chart everyday, I'll say "What comes after 23?", and if he has trouble, I'll say "It's 2 tens 4 ones... what is that called?", and he remembers "24". This seems to be working well for him. He's getting it. Slowly, but surely. Tonight, he was in the van trying to count to 100. He has previously thought that you just count to 20 and then count by 10s to 100. With all the emphasis on tens and ones when talking about numbers, he finally figured out to go by ones between each 10. He got a little confused in the 40s/50s range (I think doing 50s, then 40s, then 50s again), and part of that was likely speech related anyway, since 30/40/50 sound similar, but it was huge progress! He's definitely seeing the place value. I also use money to demonstrate, and I again emphasize it... "We have 2 dimes and 3 pennies, so that's 2 tens and 3 ones... How much money do we have?"

 

We never counted to one hundred. Not until my son understood all the numbers in the hundreds chart in terms of place value, and knew both the "math name" and the English name well.

 

Only then did I ask him to count up to 100 out of the blue one day. He did it perfectly, because he knew what each number meant.

 

I did not want his counting to 100 to be the equivalent of learning a "song" that he did not really understand.

 

Bill

[boscopup]

We never counted to one hundred. Not until my son understood all the numbers in the hundreds chart in terms of place value, and knew both the "math name" and the English name well.

 

Only then did I ask him to count up to 100 out of the blue one day. He did it perfectly, because he knew what each number meant.

 

I did not want his counting to 100 to be the equivalent of learning a "song" that he did not really understand.

 

Bill

 

I have not encouraged him to count to 100. He is just trying to on his own. I've actually tried to stay out of it until we get there on the 100 chart. We're going day-by-day on the chart, and only counting to that day, and each day we are emphasizing the place value. I'm sure by time we get to 100, he'll be able to easily count to 100 on his own with no problem. What he demonstrated tonight was exactly what you're talking about, except that he is still fuzzy on the 10s values. He needs to see those values while hearing me enunciate them very clearly. Then he should understand them. The knowledge of place value from 1-24 (where we are on the chart) helped him figure out what happens between the other 10s. So before, it was more like memorizing a song to him. Now, he understands the place value involved. He just needs to learn that 30/40/50 are different words. He has that issue with 13 and 14 too... They sound similar, so he often skips 13. My 2 year old skips 12 and goes straight to 13. I can't win. :lol:

[Spy Car]

I have not encouraged him to count to 100. He is just trying to on his own. I've actually tried to stay out of it until we get there on the 100 chart. We're going day-by-day on the chart, and only counting to that day, and each day we are emphasizing the place value. I'm sure by time we get to 100, he'll be able to easily count to 100 on his own with no problem. What he demonstrated tonight was exactly what you're talking about, except that he is still fuzzy on the 10s values. He needs to see those values while hearing me enunciate them very clearly. Then he should understand them. The knowledge of place value from 1-24 (where we are on the chart) helped him figure out what happens between the other 10s. So before, it was more like memorizing a song to him. Now, he understands the place value involved. He just needs to learn that 30/40/50 are different words. He has that issue with 13 and 14 too... They sound similar, so he often skips 13. My 2 year old skips 12 and goes straight to 13. I can't win. :lol:

 

Counting to 100 is one of those "milestone" skills people work on, I'm just super-nutty about some things :D

 

Bill

[acurtis75]

I agree with the "problem," but for me the MUS naming scheme (One T One for 11 or Two T Two for 22) is bizarrely weird sounding.

 

1-Ten 1-Unit or 2-Tens 2-Units is much more descriptive and less weird sounding to my ear. This name scheme (unlike MUS and RS) gives eash place a name based on its place. Some might prefer "Ones" to "Units", but either way each digit gets a place name and that is to the best when teaching early math.

 

Bill

 

It does sound weird. Especially when you type it out. On the video it's just corny which dd seemed to appreciate. Similar to calling the 8 block "chocol-eight" because it's brown like chocolate. Dd certainly didn't need those silly things to remember the math but it seemed to make it more enjoyable for her. The main point is the emphasis on place value. I was a naturally good math student but don't remember much focus on it when learning math in ps. Even now as we are working through long division the concept of place value is covered and reinforced continually. It definately helps with the correct conceptual understanding of what you are doing.

[acurtis75]

Counting to 100 is one of those "milestone" skills people work on, I'm just super-nutty about some things :D

 

Bill

 

Join the club. I think dd could read chapter books before I allowed her to be exposed to singing her A, B, C's.:lol:

[MyLittleBears]

Mathusee does something similar to this when teaching counting/numbers. I think it was on the alpha level. When you start making numbers above 10 with the blocks there is a lesson where you discuss place value and how you can only have 9 units before it becomes a ten. Then after 10 instead of saying eleven, twelve, etc the instructed calls them one-ty at first. Explaining that twenty is 2 tens and twenty one is two tens plus one but that in English the numbers between 10 & 20 have illogical names. Apparently in other languages it's more straight-forward. The first several lessons the numbers are called:

 

One T (for the 10) one which we call eleven

One t two which we call twelve

One t 3 which is thirteen...here the names start making more sense because it's 3 teen or 3 tens

 

I'm not sure that this makes sense typed out like this but it certainly solidified the concept as we went through it and is similar to the Asian concept. I think the teaching and understanding of place value early in math instruction is one of they key differences between the "asian" way and the way it's taught in the u.s.

 

Just to note something. He calls these nicknames but that the actual name is twelve, thirteen, etc.. teaching it side by side, NOT exclusively. The kids thought this was funny/ silly and it really stuck, not that we're using MUS anymore.:tongue_smilie: Also, ones are refered to as units and taught as 2 tens+2units =22, or 5 tens +3 units=53 etc.

Edited November 11, 2011 by MyLittleBears

[Spy Car]

It does sound weird. Especially when you type it out. On the video it's just corny which dd seemed to appreciate. Similar to calling the 8 block "chocol-eight" because it's brown like chocolate. Dd certainly didn't need those silly things to remember the math but it seemed to make it more enjoyable for her. The main point is the emphasis on place value. I was a naturally good math student but don't remember much focus on it when learning math in ps. Even now as we are working through long division the concept of place value is covered and reinforced continually. It definately helps with the correct conceptual understanding of what you are doing.

 

I'm with you on "the big picture" I just prefer a name scheme where every "place" gets a name, so 3-Hundreds 6-Tens and 5-Units.

 

Or 1-Ten 1-Unit (or Ones) rather than One T One, which does not "name" every place (and sounds weird).

 

It really helps with addition and subtraction. If you have 5-Tens 8-Units and subtract 3-Tens and 5-Units the beauty of this naming scheme really shines.

 

Bill

[acurtis75]

I'm with you on "the big picture" I just prefer a name scheme where every "place" gets a name, so 3-Hundreds 6-Tens and 5-Units.

 

Or 1-Ten 1-Unit (or Ones) rather than One T One, which does not "name" every place (and sounds weird).

 

It really helps with addition and subtraction. If you have 5-Tens 8-Units and subtract 3-Tens and 5-Units the beauty of this naming scheme really shines.

 

Bill

 

Because we were talking about counting I probably unintentionally misrepresented the way place value is taught in MUS. The only time that one-ten topic was covered was in reference to the English names for the numbers between 10 & 20. The rest of the time we clearly discussed that every place has a name. We built numbers with blocks and wrote them on paper by discussing how many hundreds, tens & ones were in the number. We also use that naming scheme when doing multiplication & division.

 

For example when attempting to divide 13 into 273 today we discussed that 13 x even 100 would be too large so we didn't need to put anything in the hundreds place and that 13 x 20 is 260 which leaves 13 and 13 times 1 unit is 13 so the answer is 21. 2 tens and 1 unit. This is of course different than how most of us were taught in ps where you said 13x2 is 26 and you subtracted that from 27 which left 1 and you bring down the 3 to make 13...all of which is totally illogical without understanding the place value.

 

I think we're actually talking about the same number scheme I just muddied the water with the way I explained the issue of initially teaching what the number 11 represented.

[MyLittleBears]

Because we were talking about counting I probably unintentionally misrepresented the way place value is taught in MUS. The only time that one-ten topic was covered was in reference to the English names for the numbers between 10 & 20. The rest of the time we clearly discussed that every place has a name. We built numbers with blocks and wrote them on paper by discussing how many hundreds, tens & ones were in the number. We also use that naming scheme when doing multiplication & division.

 

For example when attempting to divide 13 into 273 today we discussed that 13 x even 100 would be too large so we didn't need to put anything in the hundreds place and that 13 x 20 is 260 which leaves 13 and 13 times 1 unit is 13 so the answer is 21. 2 tens and 1 unit. This is of course different than how most of us were taught in ps where you said 13x2 is 26 and you subtracted that from 27 which left 1 and you bring down the 3 to make 13...all of which is totally illogical without understanding the place value.

 

I think we're actually talking about the same number scheme I just muddied the water with the way I explained the issue of initially teaching what the number 11 represented.

 

Thank you for clarification. I was trying to clarify for you and I think I muddied the water further. You're right, I think we're all talking about the same numbering scheme here.:001_smile:

[HiddenJewel]

We use those terms until the student fully understands what is being said. Then we switch to regular number names.

[Spy Car]

Because we were talking about counting I probably unintentionally misrepresented the way place value is taught in MUS. The only time that one-ten topic was covered was in reference to the English names for the numbers between 10 & 20. The rest of the time we clearly discussed that every place has a name. We built numbers with blocks and wrote them on paper by discussing how many hundreds, tens & ones were in the number. We also use that naming scheme when doing multiplication & division.

 

For example when attempting to divide 13 into 273 today we discussed that 13 x even 100 would be too large so we didn't need to put anything in the hundreds place and that 13 x 20 is 260 which leaves 13 and 13 times 1 unit is 13 so the answer is 21. 2 tens and 1 unit. This is of course different than how most of us were taught in ps where you said 13x2 is 26 and you subtracted that from 27 which left 1 and you bring down the 3 to make 13...all of which is totally illogical without understanding the place value.

 

I think we're actually talking about the same number scheme I just muddied the water with the way I explained the issue of initially teaching what the number 11 represented.

 

I'm more consused than ever.

 

In the MUS scheme is 111 called 1-Hundred 1-Ten 1-Unit (or Ones) or is it called One Hundred One T One?

 

Bill

[MyLittleBears]

I'm more consused than ever.

 

In the MUS scheme is 111 called 1-Hundred 1-Ten 1-Unit (or Ones) or is it called One Hundred One T One?

 

Bill

 

It is taught as one hundred+ one ten + 1 unit= one hundred eleven. He only used the one T one thing in one lesson to illustrate a point. Unless someone has actually used MUS, it's kind of hard to explain it well on screen. Sorry about that.:tongue_smilie:

[Spy Car]

It is taught as one hundred+ one ten + 1 unit= one hundred eleven. He only used the one T one thing in one lesson to illustrate a point. Unless someone has actually used MUS, it's kind of hard to explain it well on screen. Sorry about that.:tongue_smilie:

 

I saw a MUS introductory video many years back where Steve Demme used the One T One (for 11) naming scheme, so I wondered if MUS carried that though for a while.

 

Bill

Edited November 11, 2011 by Spy Car

[my2boysteacher]

What great insight! Thanks for weighing in, everyone.

I do plan to start her with Miquon soon- she has been 'playing' with the C-Rods for a good 6 months and loves building things with them. I think we'll give the Asian style counting a try. The boys and I will have to re-train ourselves, but it should be good for them.

[Mom-ninja.]

yes

[Spy Car]

What great insight! Thanks for weighing in, everyone.

I do plan to start her with Miquon soon- she has been 'playing' with the C-Rods for a good 6 months and loves building things with them. I think we'll give the Asian style counting a try. The boys and I will have to re-train ourselves, but it should be good for them.

 

Add a set of base-10 "flats" to your set of C Rods (to be 100 values) and you can build 3 digit numbers. This adds a "concrete" understanding of numbers and place value (at least to 3 digits). An the "naming" is easy. How many Hundreds? How many Tens? And How many Units?

 

Bill

[my2boysteacher]

Add a set of base-10 "flats" to your set of C Rods (to be 100 values) and you can build 3 digit numbers. This adds a "concrete" understanding of numbers and place value (at least to 3 digits). An the "naming" is easy. How many Hundreds? How many Tens? And How many Units?

 

Bill

 

Will do!

[Haiku]

Do you think there are advantages to teaching kids 'Asian Style' of counting?

 

We did RS for three levels, and I think that their way of naming numbers is indeed helpful in learning and using place value. Now that we are using MM, my kids still add and subtract using the RS way.

 

However ... they learned to count the normal American way and it never hindered their ability to learn/grasp how RS taught.

 

Tara

[acurtis75]

I saw a MUS introductory video many years back where Steve Demme used the One T One (for 11) naming scheme, so I wondered if MUS carried that though for a while.

 

Bill

He doesn't. As the pp mentioned we refer to 111 as 1 hundred, 1 ten & 1 unit. A lot of the sample videos are aimed at people who don't get math which I think makes mus appear to be all about tips and tricks. It isn't. They are thrown in there occasionally but at it's core the program is focused on understanding both the how and why of what you are learning.

[9763653]

By that I mean; 7, 8, 9, 10, 10--1, 10--2

and instead of twenty, thirty, etc; 2--10, 3--10?

 

I know RS math teaches this way, but I don't plan on using this curriculum.

I've been reading a few books which detail differences between American and Asian math, and one states mental math is so much easier for Asian kids because they count in the above stated manner. Where Americans have to first translate 27+ 31 to 20+7 and 30+1 before they can work the problem, Asian kids are able to skip that step. They would say 2--10--7 + 3--10--1. and come up with 5--10--8 (58) Hope that makes sense!

 

I'm planning curriculum and teaching methods for my almost 4 year old DD. I think she is my little guinea pig- everything I wish I'd done with her brothers will be tested on her. :lol: Do you think there are advantages to teaching kids 'Asian Style' of counting?

 

In my kids' primary language, counting is done that way (not artificially, the numbers are actually linguistically like that). It is definitely easier that the English way. The same goes for "eleven" and "twelve"; they can be confusing. Teaching the numbers in the local language first, and then adding English, was definitely easier in terms of a concrete understanding and memorization of these numbers.

[MyLittleBears]

I saw a MUS introductory video many years back where Steve Demme used the One T One (for 11) naming scheme, so I wondered if MUS carried that though for a while.

 

Bill

 

I see how it can give that impression. MUS was good for what it was good for for us, and for that I'm grateful, but after that I'm not a big fan. Tons of people love it, though, and it works well for them, which is why I hesitate to knock it. I'm with you on your preference for the Singapore/Miquon combo.:D

 

BTY-Thanks with you help on that a few months back!;)

[Karen in CO]

I teach them to count in Japanese in addition to counting in English. I guess that "counts," right?

[acurtis75]

I see how it can give that impression. MUS was good for what it was good for for us, and for that I'm grateful, but after that I'm not a big fan. Tons of people love it, though, and it works well for them, which is why I hesitate to knock it. I'm with you on your preference for the Singapore/Miquon combo.:D

 

BTY-Thanks with you help on that a few months back!;)

 

Sounds like we're on a pretty similar path with math. I'm using MUS to teach dd6 basic math facts and to give her a solid foundation in thinking about math correctly. She is a bit advanced and we're using it a lot faster than the recommended schedule. We're on Delta now and 4 weeks in we've already made it to ch. 22. I plan to go through Zeta and then decide where to go from there. I think most people think the higher levels aren't challenging enough for advanced math students. That may very well be true so we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I will say that if money were a major deciding factor using MUS for dd would not be ideal because she moves through it so quickly. I have a relative who is homeschooling 4 children with one on the way. The two oldest needed remediation and the other 3 are younger so I pass everything on to her to help with curriculum costs. This helps me feel better about finishing 3 levels per year.

[beaners]

I remember being extremely annoyed by spending so much time on this kind of explanation when I was in school, so I probably won't bother with it for my children unless they have trouble. I knew that 11 was a ten and a one as soon as we covered place value, and I had no trouble breaking other numbers up in my head for mental math. It might be helpful for some children, but I don't know if it's necessary for children who pick up on number concepts very easily. I'm just throwing out my own experience in case anyone gets resistance from their own children. It makes "more sense" but using this format might be overkill for some students.

[Spy Car]

I see how it can give that impression. MUS was good for what it was good for for us, and for that I'm grateful, but after that I'm not a big fan. Tons of people love it, though, and it works well for them, which is why I hesitate to knock it. I'm with you on your preference for the Singapore/Miquon combo.:D

 

BTY-Thanks with you help on that a few months back!;)

 

I'm glad to have been of help :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

He doesn't. As the pp mentioned we refer to 111 as 1 hundred, 1 ten & 1 unit. A lot of the sample videos are aimed at people who don't get math which I think makes mus appear to be all about tips and tricks. It isn't. They are thrown in there occasionally but at it's core the program is focused on understanding both the how and why of what you are learning.

 

Very interesting. I had no idea MUS ended up with the same name scheme I decided to use. Thank you for making me aware of this! :001_smile:

 

Watching the MUS video (which must have been 5 years ago because my child was still an infant) was instructive for me. While I did not gravitate to some of the ideas that might fall into the category of "tips and tricks" (such as a 9 being a vacuum cleaner that like to suck up Ones), I did come away with a very strong feeling that Mr Demme was on to something using concrete manipulatives to make concepts plain. That was a big deal, and I'm grateful for that.

 

It also seemed to me that MUS might be a god-send for those children who benefit from doing one topic (or two in the case of addition and subtraction) at a time. When I watched that video I had no idea what sort of learner I might have and MUS was definitely something I was considering using (depending).

 

Bill

[Five More Minutes]

We did not "count" that way. However when we first modeled numbers using concrete manipulatives like Cuisenaire Rods and base-10 flats starting in Pre-school we ALWAYS talked about numbers like 365 as 3-Hundreds 6-tens 5-Units.

 

We also discussed the silly naming conventions we have in English for numbers like 1-Ten 2-Units, which we call "Twelve" and so on. So we learned "the English" too.

 

 

We used a similar approach here. We modeled the numbers using rods or the abacus, and then figured out their "math name" (such as 1-ten-2-ones, or even just 1-ten-2, for "twelve.")

 

When we count how many days we've been in school, I give my daughters the option of using the English names vs. the math names, and they tend to choose the math names about half of the time. Often when we're working together on a problem and they identify a number, I'll ask them to give me the "math name" of the number (or English name, if that's what they've said first). At this point they seem to use both interchangeably.

 

This strategy is paying off now as DD6 is doing addition and subtraction with regrouping, and DD4 is just learning to write numbers beyond 10. I occasionally hear them muttering something like "one-ten-eight" as they think about numbers.

[Spy Car]

We used a similar approach here. We modeled the numbers using rods or the abacus, and then figured out their "math name" (such as 1-ten-2-ones, or even just 1-ten-2, for "twelve.")

 

When we count how many days we've been in school, I give my daughters the option of using the English names vs. the math names, and they tend to choose the math names about half of the time. Often when we're working together on a problem and they identify a number, I'll ask them to give me the "math name" of the number (or English name, if that's what they've said first). At this point they seem to use both interchangeably.

 

This strategy is paying off now as DD6 is doing addition and subtraction with regrouping, and DD4 is just learning to write numbers beyond 10. I occasionally hear them muttering something like "one-ten-eight" as they think about numbers.

 

:iagree:

 

Just to pick up on this idea (for the benefit of people reading this thread) where these "math name" conventions really pay-off is not just helping kids learn and transition to English names (although they do help there too) it is how these "math names" get children to really see and understand the place value and how that impacts the facility which which they can understand and practice things like adding and subtracting.

 

With "math names" and a set of blocks and rods a 4 or 5 or 6 year old can add and subtract 3 digit numbers with ease. These things plant the seeds of understanding and confidence with math. That is a big deal!

 

Bill

[acurtis75]

Watching the MUS video (which must have been 5 years ago because my child was still an infant) was instructive for me. While I did not gravitate to some of the ideas that might fall into the category of "tips and tricks" (such as a 9 being a vacuum cleaner that like to suck up Ones), I did come away with a very strong feeling that Mr Demme was on to something using concrete manipulatives to make concepts plain. That was a big deal, and I'm grateful for that.

 

It also seemed to me that MUS might be a god-send for those children who benefit from doing one topic (or two in the case of addition and subtraction) at a time. When I watched that video I had no idea what sort of learner I might have and MUS was definitely something I was considering using (depending).

 

Bill

 

The manipulatives and the way they are used in the program is definately beneficial. As mentioned earlier in the thread we are doing long division. DD doesn't need the blocks to work problems but likes playing with them for fun. As Mr. Demme was teaching problems like 240 divided by 12 he still builds the product with blocks and then shows the factors for the rectangles the blocks form. It's hard to explain in narrative form but I can see how it would greatly benefit a child who wasn't understanding the concepts. One reason I use MUS is that it's clean and simple and teaches the ability to do the problems on paper, in your head and with our without writing your steps out. He also teaches and allows for working problems multiple ways. I hated it when teachers made me to problems a certain way and I could clearly see a better/faster way of doing them.

 

I know people who use MUS for remediation or for working with children who need extra help or hands on learning to get the concepts. It seems to work great for that.

 

We're using it for a totally different reason. With my accelerated/fast learner I need things that are easy to move through quickly so we can get to the spot that challenges her. I felt a strong need to make sure she mastered basic math facts (addition, subtraction, formulas for area, how to multiple fractions, etc) before moving on to problems that would really challenge her. MUS has just enough review on the tests that I can check for retention of previously learned skills while making sure she knows the new concept. There are many weeks where we work through 3 or 4 lessons. We watch dvd, do a few practice problems together and if she seems to get it we test and move on.