2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) My oldest son is expected to graduate at 15 with more advanced credits than public schools offer, after which, he plans to work on his bachelors from home. We live about 5 minutes from campus, so if necessary, I can take him to labs or something. The goal is to let him go off to college for his masters. State law says he has to be enrolled in homeschool until 18, but can be exempted at 17 with an equivalent certificate of completion. How do we get around that? (I haven't checked with schools yet about college enrollment. I know there are young scholar programs available throughout the state, but I haven't done my homework yet. I don't want him going "off to school" that young. I don't think the local campus has anything for very young learners. We may wait until 16 to enroll him, but he'll have a semester off. ... again, how do we get around that?) We have some time to think about all this, but he's already told me he doesn't want to slow down. Stretching 4 years into 6 or 7 will drive him batty. Edited November 9, 2011 by 2smartones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Do you need to graduate him in order for him to enroll in the college classes? Most schools have dual enrollment (or sometimes referred to as concurrent enrollment) so he can earn both high school and college credit for the classes. Our 15 yos will have 25 high school credits at the end of this school yr, but he will not be graduating from high school until he is 18. I can't remember what he worked it out to being, but he will have an absurd # of high school credits by the time he graduates. For our ds, however, most of the college credits he will earn will not be accepted for credit b/c of the schools to which he wishes to apply. Top-tier schools do not normally give college credit for dual enrollment classes. However, it does not mean that he would have to take cal 1 after having finished linear alg. It simply means that in order to meet their graduation requirements, he would have to take the specified # of credit hrs in that subject matter simply starting at his entry level. Does that help at all? FWIW, I think that doing what you are describing might perhaps limit his options whereas by not graduating him and seeing what his opinion is at 17-18, you leave more doors open. If he wants to stay at the original school where he dual enrolls, obviously they would simply accept him as a freshman and give him credit for all of the completed coursework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I agree with what 8fill said. I'd furthermore add that you might consider "He's still in high school, in an advanced course of study" and, should he still desire to do so, graduating him from high school and university at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Would he be allowed to do dual-credit when he's that young, though? I mean... I guess he would? I think I've seen other pre-teens here who've done it? Thank you for your responses! This is helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'm particularly concerned about doing dual-credit for science and history. I prefer to teach from a Christian POV with my own texts rather than a college's texts, especially since maturity and working grade level have nothing to do with each other. Children are very impressionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thank you, everyone! You've been very helpful! I'm going to do a little digging and ask local friends some questions. I just hate bringing it up to people because I get the "let 'em be a kid" eye roll, ya' know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'm particularly concerned about doing dual-credit for science and history. I prefer to teach from a Christian POV with my own texts rather than a college's texts, especially since maturity and working grade level have nothing to do with each other. Children are very impressionable. :confused: I'm confused. Where was he going to take science and history if you graduated him at 15? I thought you were referring to wanting him to take college classes at that pt?? FWIW, if you don't graduate him, than you came simply do whatever you want w/him at home. History shouldn't be a problem, but science will probably be more difficult w/an advanced student. I am no longer capable of teaching my ds science or math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 I think I'm confused, too. (Science was my minor in college, btw... not worried about teaching that one.) I was thinking that he'd do all the high school level work (actually, advanced high school level) with me, finishing "12 years" worth of school at 15, after which, he'd do regular college classes from home, with my supervision, and if necessary, guidance. Dual credit would mean that he'd start taking college classes for high school credit earlier than 15, right? Or are you saying that he'd do dual-credit at 15, even though he was "finished" with what I had planned for high school? Obviously none of this was an option when I was a kid. The whole thing confuses the heck out of me! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I think I'm confused, too. (Science was my minor in college, btw... not worried about teaching that one.) I was thinking that he'd do all the high school level work (actually, advanced high school level) with me, finishing "12 years" worth of school at 15, after which, he'd do regular college classes from home, with my supervision, and if necessary, guidance. Dual credit would mean that he'd start taking college classes for high school credit earlier than 15, right? Or are you saying that he'd do dual-credit at 15, even though he was "finished" with what I had planned for high school? Obviously none of this was an option when I was a kid. The whole thing confuses the heck out of me! :lol: I meant to start dual credit when he's "finished" with your high school. I think the others did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Assuming he finishes the Life of Fred books at 15, linear algebra, statistics, etc., and the Apologia books (advanced biology, etc.), what would be the point of taking dual-credit classes after finishing high school? He'd have to take freshman level classes all over again, right? Why wouldn't he just test out of classes he'd learned with me, concentrate on classes that are in the area of his major, graduate with a bachelors (primarily from home) by 18, and then "go off to college" at 18 for a masters? :confused: I'm seriously confused by all this stuff!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Yeah, hopefully. I did that in college. I loved it. It saved me a year of school and a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Assuming he finishes the Life of Fred books at 15, linear algebra, statistics, etc., and the Apologia books (advanced biology, etc.), what would be the point of taking dual-credit classes after finishing high school? He'd have to take freshman level classes all over again, right? Why wouldn't he just test out of classes he'd learned with me, concentrate on classes that are in the area of his major, graduate with a bachelors (primarily from home) by 18, and then "go off to college" at 18 for a masters? :confused: I'm seriously confused by all this stuff!! :lol: There are multiple issues you need to consider. First, as an advanced student, is attending a local school his best educational opportunity? For example, the answer for us is no. Ds wants to attend a competitive school for physics (his current thoughts are UChicago, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell (CalTech had been one of his top choices, but CA has had major cutbacks, so we are on hold for that option). He could easily attend the local university now, but it isn't a place where he sees himself long-term. If your ds wants to attend a competitive school, the likelihood of being really competitive for admission increases if you do NOT graduate him early. For example, our current plan for our ds is for him to take multivariable cal and diffEQ next yr at the local uni as a high school jr. He will also be taking cal based physics 1 and 2. He will be doing an independent study on black holes after already completing at home the 1st 2 astronomy texts that Berkeley uses for their astronomy/astrophysics majors (he completed the 1st one in 9th and is currently doing the 2nd) When he applies to colleges his sr yr, he will have completed: Math: alg 1, 2, geo, the following AOPs courses: counting and probability, alg 3, pre-cal, cal (followed by the AP BC exam-this is where he is currently), perhaps their group theory, plus the dual enrollment classes above, plus having in progress, linear alg, etc. Science: physics, chem, 2 yrs of astronomy, AP chem (where he is right now), 2 semesters college physics, a 3rd yr of astronomy, plus in progress college bio, college chem, and whatever he decides to do for a 4th yr of astronomy. Do you get the idea? He will have proven that he used homeschooling to develop his personal strong interests (physics and astronomy). He will have far more on his transcript than the avg applicant, etc. Which is more to my ds's advantage? Attending the local uni now and simply earning a degree? (It's a fine school but definitely not a top one.) Or pursuing outside enrollment while still a high school student and making him more competitive for scholarships/admission into schools where he is more likely to be around other equally advanced/oriented students? From our perspective getting from A to B early is not nearly as important as getting from A to whatever B most meets ds's personal academic goals. As I explained earlier, no, he shouldn't have to start back at the beginning. Yes, he starts back as a freshman at really top schools. However, typically they don't start back at the lower classes but are allowed to enroll at their current level. However, lower schools would probably simply accept the credits and even though a freshman initially for admission/scholarship purposes, he would become a jr, sr or whatever after the 1st semester. Each student needs to decide their own path. If you graduate him at 15 and pursue the one you initially describe, his path will be limited to transferring to other schools vs. applying as a freshman (which is where the greatest scholarship $$ is.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Assuming he finishes the Life of Fred books at 15, linear algebra, statistics, etc., and the Apologia books (advanced biology, etc.), what would be the point of taking dual-credit classes after finishing high school? He'd have to take freshman level classes all over again, right? Why wouldn't he just test out of classes he'd learned with me, concentrate on classes that are in the area of his major, graduate with a bachelors (primarily from home) by 18, and then "go off to college" at 18 for a masters? :confused: I'm seriously confused by all this stuff!! :lol: Dual credit doesn't just mean take freshman classes; why would it? He can be taking the same courses you already had planned for him to take, testing out of the courses you had planned for him to test out of, and still be technically 'in high school' for attendance purposes. Furthermore, what 8fill laid out about which schools is something you need to seriously consider with a top student. Many schools are pretty snobby about where the bachelor's degree was received; your chances of receiving transfer credit may be higher than your chances of admission with a degree from a lower university. At least with the transfer credit denial, he can petition to take exams for advanced standing if not credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Why don't kids just stay babies forever. :( I want to go back to Thomas the Train again! :willy_nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ok, so help me understand this: You're saying that we should go ahead with the things I have planned for "finishing" homeschooling. Then, don't pronounce him done, just pronounce him ready to move on as if he were still in high school, but getting college credit, and taking college classes? (How would I register him? A college freshman or a high school freshman?) If so, would I add his last 4 years of HS and his next 2-3 years of dual credit together on one transcript as if it were all done in 4 years? He'd have a gazillion credits. Would it look legit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ok, so help me understand this: You're saying that we should go ahead with the things I have planned for "finishing" homeschooling. Then, don't pronounce him done, just pronounce him ready to move on as if he were still in high school, but getting college credit, and taking college classes? (How would I register him? A college freshman or a high school freshman?) If so, would I add his last 4 years of HS and his next 2-3 years of dual credit together on one transcript as if it were all done in 4 years? He'd have a gazillion credits. Would it look legit? If he has the college credits and the transcript, it'll look plenty legit. I'd definitely list it by year and include the stuff done prior to 9th grade in a separate column. i.e. if his 9th grade course is calculus, include algebra 1/2/geometry/trigonometry in "completed before 9th grade." so that the box-tickers can see that the course was completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Oh, ok. Cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If your ds wants to attend a competitive school, the likelihood of being really competitive for admission increases if you do NOT graduate him early. [...] Which is more to my ds's advantage? Attending the local uni now and simply earning a degree? (It's a fine school but definitely not a top one.) Or pursuing outside enrollment while still a high school student and making him more competitive for scholarships/admission into schools where he is more likely to be around other equally advanced/oriented students? I like how you think. :D I tend to think this way too, in fact. :lol: Why graduate at 15 and move onto the next stage right away if you can extend / go more in-depth / take a year or two to study abroad and travel / etc.? Why the rush, really, if you do not have to "check off" that particular box right now? I can see why for some children it is the best possible option, but for others, it may not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 I like how you think. :D I tend to think this way too, in fact. :lol: Why graduate at 15 and move onto the next stage right away if you can extend / go more in-depth / take a year or two to study abroad and travel / etc.? Why the rush, really, if you do not have to "check off" that particular box right now? I can see why for some children it is the best possible option, but for others, it may not be. Would extended travel really be legal under TX law? Or would we be under the law of whatever country we were in at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulasue Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) 8fill had some good points. As an alum of Texas A&M and wanting to send DS there. I have been looking at how to do this with my ds and talking the Prospective Student Center on what steps we need to take to increase his chances of getting accepted. Does he have an idea of where he wants to go and what he wants to pursue? I would talk with that university. They can give you guidance on how to proceed to get into their school. I would imagine UT and Rice, if those are the universities he is considering in TX, also have it laid out what they would need from hs students. Also, something to think about is just because he has an undergrad, doesn't mean that he is going to get in the masters program of his choice. Many masters programs are competitive, and they will be looking at your undergrad. My BIL on a whim applied to TAMU chemistry dept to see if he could get in for a PhD. He has his undergrad and masters in science from a smaller university in TX, he was turned down. So just having an undergrad and masters doesn't get you into any program that you want. At the better schools, any program is going to be competitive. Edited November 10, 2011 by paulasue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Someone around here just started his bachelor's degree at thirteen, and his father has never once registered him as a homeschooler in the state. Heh. I think the university decided he was ready for the work and didn't care about whatever the K-12 requirements were supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I don't know how old your ds is, but thought I'd add a few thoughts. Kids change so much between the ages 12 and 16 that you can not plan what path they will take to college. I'm NOT implying that he will slow down and am NOT rolling my eyes and saying "let him be a kid". I am suggesting that you are doing the right thing to start thinking of all the options but to be ready for something completely different to happen. Neither of my kids are doing what I had pictured and planned for, but it has turned out well. My youngest started community college classes at 15 with zero supervision or help from me. He has remained technically a homeschooled high schooler to take advantage of certain internships that are offered to high schoolers, some of which have age restrictions. He is applying to start as a freshman in college next fall, and while we aren't counting on it, he may get credit for the coursework he has completed already. There are usually placement tests for deciding which math, language, even science class you take, so he isn't worried about having to "repeat" anything. My oldest graduated early and spent a year and a half before college working in his chosen profession. He was limited in what he could do until he turned 18, but he still was able to do some solid, professional work. I got around the transcript issue by organizing information by subjects rather than by grades. One college admissions adviser told me how much she liked this format because it much easier for her to scan it and, yes, check the requirement boxes more quickly. Don't know if any of these random thoughts are helpful, but there you go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Don't know if any of these random thoughts are helpful, but there you go! Actually, they are! Can you tell me exactly what you mean about organizing the transcript that way? What did it look like? And he doesn't know where he wants to go. Three generations have gone to A&M, so everyone's always said he's destined to go there, but it doesn't mean he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Actually, they are! Can you tell me exactly what you mean about organizing the transcript that way? What did it look like? And he doesn't know where he wants to go. Three generations have gone to A&M, so everyone's always said he's destined to go there, but it doesn't mean he will. This is similar to how I have created ds's transcript. http://mtpleasant.homeschooljournal.net/files/2011/07/Transcript.pdf The main differences between the one I have created and this one is that I include an extra column labeled <9th grade and I do include the numerous high school credits he earned prior to 9th grade. I also include a small column between the course titles and the grades for abbreviations of where classes were taken. For example AOPS (art of problem solving), PAH (PA Homeschoolers), XYZ (obviously not real, but the abbreviation for the local university), OCW (opencourseware) etc and have a key explaining them. I also include major academic camps/awards, etc that he has participated/earned. For example math camps, Eagle, competitions, NASA INSPIRE, etc. FWIW, it is precisely b/c your ds is young and he doesn't know where he wants to ultimately go that I personally believe graduating him early limits his options while other paths keep doors open. I do want to make one more comment about dual enrollment, though. Our experience is that we do NOT want ds taking any courses at the local CC. The quality of education at the CC is very sub-standard even though there are matriculation agreements w/the top in-state unis here. I have had 2 of my older kids take classes at 2 different CCs here (and a 3rd in a different state). They have not been the equivalent of uni classes. If your uni will not allow attendance, EPGY offers college level classes. http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/ You can also utilize opencourseware Stanford, Yale, MIT, etc all have opencourseware available: http://see.stanford.edu/see/courses.aspx http://oyc.yale.edu/ http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm And those are just a sample of what is available for free. He wouldn't get college credit for the opencourseware, but depending on his goals, he may not get credit anyway. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Check with Texas Tech University. While it's been many years since I was there, they had a Tech Prep program for advanced high school students (STEMS focused) to start doing college work early, and also had multiple correspondence options designed to let students do more advanced science and math than was available locally (LOTS of small high schools in TX, not to mention homeschoolers!). They may well have a status he'd fit into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulasue Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 FWIW, it is precisely b/c your ds is young and he doesn't know where he wants to ultimately go that I personally believe graduating him early limits his options while other paths keep doors open. :iagree:Especially, if he is even contemplating something in the science arena and eventually wanting to attend an elite institution. This would be a great time for him to investigate his interests and figure out what he really wants to do. I think too many ppl head off to college and don't have a clue what their end result will be. That's why so many kids graduate with so many extra hours, wasting time and money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Wow, lots of food for thought- and dizzying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooooom Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 all I have to do is send a letter to the school district telling them that dd has graduated and will be attending x college. Technically he shouldn't have to still be enrolled in high school if is attending college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 You've gotten lots of good advice here, but I just want to point out one pertinent fact. The age requirement for enrollment only applies to students who have not graduated. In TX, you are perfectly free to gradute your DS at 15 if he has completed your HS requirements and no one will have a problem with it (or even know anything about it since we don't have to register as HSers here. Just print a diploma and a transcript and send off your college applications. No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nany2204 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I know there are young scholar programs available throughout the state, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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