phonics advice

[jillian]

So dd is going to be 4 in Dec. We have been playing around on Starfall, reading, doing letter cards (like notecards with the letter and a picture) and just playing around.

 

She asked me to read when she was around 18 months old (Mommy can I read? Will you teach me?). That's when we began starfall, very casually and playing letter games and fridge phonics type things.

 

So we are doing K this year (math, phonics/letter formation, some basic science--interest led). We are using CHC's Little Stories for Little Folks series and I like it because it breaks it into parts and it was cost effective. Anyway, she fights me tooth and nail to do the word families (we are at the stage where we have one strip with the alphabet and the other with the word families...ad, at, an, and so on).

 

She knows what the word families are/say but she insists on giving the wrong answer because it's funny (her words) and that it's too hard (again her words). She prefers starfall and I think it's because it's visual and plays music. However once she sits down and stops being obstinate she flies through the lesson for the day. We try to start out with phonics but usually put it aside and do math and our Kumon handwriting book and then go back. Even then it's like 10 minutes of "focus. what does this say?" and then she finally focuses, it clicks and we are done in 10 minutes going through the word families and sounds. She can do it she just doesn't want to lol.

 

I don't want to kill her love of reading so I'm not sure what's not working. Should I just change my method and still use CHC as an introduction. Like introduce the word families but do 3-letter word bingo and such and let her explore starfall still?

 

ETA: phonics is the only area she does this in. Math she flies through (doing single digit addition, understands the concept of 0 and patterns and so on)

[boscopup]

I would recommend you drop formal reading instruction right now. Let her play starfall, and read to her a LOT. You can pick phonics up again in another year or two.

 

My oldest wanted to read and was very close to doing so, but at 4, he was not ready for formal instruction or doing anything "hard". 4 year olds usually like easy stuff. When I stopped trying to teach him, guess what happened? He suddenly started reading at grade level 1.5 and took off from there. He needed me out of the equation, so he could progress at HIS pace.

 

Any time your 4 year old is balking at something educational, it's time to put it away until they've developed a bit more. And your child is a 3 year old. Back off, and let her learn by living with you, reading with you, doing housework with you, cooking with you, etc. You would be surprised at how much she can learn without any curriculum at all. ;)

[jennynd]

I also have a 3 years old asking me for reading. I had HOP hanging around, So I tried. she didn't like it. I dropped it. Instead, when I read to her. I will occasionally ask her to sound words out. I will ask her to find sight words in the text. and she also play on ipod. She now will go through the book and ask me what are the words if she can't sound it out and what they mean and she is very very close to read frog and toad on her own, we are doing I do one sentence and she do one sentence

So I will agree drop formal reading. 3 years is too young for anything formal. If they pick up reading when u read or playing starfalls, Great! if not, really no biggy

Edited October 26, 2011 by jennynd

[desertmum]

I thought Starfall was teaching to read with phonics...Am I wrong? I have been using it with my 5yo and he has made more improvements with it than OPGTR.

[boscopup]

I thought Starfall was teaching to read with phonics...Am I wrong? I have been using it with my 5yo and he has made more improvements with it than OPGTR.

 

It teaches a little bit of phonics, but not pure phonics ("When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking." is NOT a real phonics rule). Also, if your child does the "I'm reading" sections before they actually read (as my child did - he navigated the whole site), they'll be picking up a lot of words via sight.

 

My son basically started to read because of starfall, but he was mostly sight reading. This wasn't a big deal until he hit the 4th grade words and didn't have the phonics knowledge to handle multiple syllables. A couple levels of AAS got him past that point though, and now he's zoomed much farther ahead.

[jillian]

It teaches a little bit of phonics, but not pure phonics ("When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking." is NOT a real phonics rule). Also, if your child does the "I'm reading" sections before they actually read (as my child did - he navigated the whole site), they'll be picking up a lot of words via sight.

 

My son basically started to read because of starfall, but he was mostly sight reading. This wasn't a big deal until he hit the 4th grade words and didn't have the phonics knowledge to handle multiple syllables. A couple levels of AAS got him past that point though, and now he's zoomed much farther ahead.

See this is where I am concerned that she's going to be picking up mostly sight reading not phonics kwim?

 

Thanks for the advice everyone :)

[boscopup]

See this is where I am concerned that she's going to be picking up mostly sight reading not phonics kwim?

 

Thanks for the advice everyone :)

 

If she picks up reading on her own at age 4, you can probably easily teach her phonics via spelling. It's not the end of the world. I just don't try to teach via sight words. ;)

[jillian]

Thanks. She can do it which I guess is why it's so frustrating because I've seen/heard her sound out words, 3 and 4 letter words for months and months.

[boscopup]

Thanks. She can do it which I guess is why it's so frustrating because I've seen/heard her sound out words, 3 and 4 letter words for months and months.

 

DS1 could "chunk" the words (per starfall) from age 3.5, but blending (figuring out that /c/-/a/-/t/ is "cat") didn't click until 4.5. That's also when he sat down and read his first book. So reading did start when he was finally able to blend. He just skipped that very slow and painful Bob book stage (DS2 is in it now... he could blend before he knew all his letter sounds, but he's definitely taking the S-L-O-W route to reading).

 

It killed me to do not do anything when DS1 was in that not-quite-blending stage, but really, me trying to teach him just prolonged the stage. It was something he needed to developmentally mature to do, and all is well now. He's in 2nd grade, easily reading 7th+ grade level books. He spells pretty well after doing 2.5 levels of AAS (to get the phonics). So it's all good. :)

[jillian]

Thank you :) DD is my first and only right now so we are still figuring out where and what to do with this. She actually does blend the sounds and can read three and four letter words...cat, hat, had, hand, and, etc.

[boscopup]

I think the first kid is the hardest, because you're excited to get to a farther point. It's a lot easier to relax with the others. :) I still have to reign myself in sometimes and remember my oldest's age. While he does a lot of things well beyond what average kids his age do, some things still aren't developmentally appropriate for him, and I have to remind myself of that. It's a balancing act!

 

At 3 and 4, just take it easy. You don't have to "do" anything for her to learn. I know that seems weird, but once you get to the other side, you'll understand how well it really works. :) I'm not an "unschooler" by any means, but in the preK years, I really do think that's the best way for a vast majority of kids. There are exceptions, of course, but a bright 3 year old already starting to read? She's going to keep going, with or without you. ;)

 

I think the best thing I did with DS1 was to read to him a LOT. I haven't done that as much with the younger kids, as my time is split 3 ways now, and reading with a 2 year old is sometimes difficult. :tongue_smilie: So enjoy being able to focus all your time on this one little mind, and read read read to her! Use your library card and get lots and lots of books, fiction and non-fiction. Pretty soon, you'll be wishing she couldn't read, as you stand in the grocery store line and she reads a headline from a magazine that you'd rather her not notice. :lol:

[jillian]

Lol. She is particularly challenging because while she wants to read she also doesn't want to be read to either. She would rather read herself if that makes sense. She's a conundrum for me lol

[boscopup]

Lol. She is particularly challenging because while she wants to read she also doesn't want to be read to either. She would rather read herself if that makes sense. She's a conundrum for me lol

 

Sometimes they like to keep us on our toes! :D

[jillian]

I definitely think it's something in the air today she was atrocious all day not just for school. Though she grasped an introduction to problems like this:

6 + __ = 10 and __ + 2 = 6

 

We talked through them and talked about the problems and why subtracting the number on the left from the number on the right gets the correct answer. She LOVES math lol.

[La Texican]

HOP can be done orally. The point behind phonics is that written English can be sounded out, the symbols stand for sounds. When you're killing time waiting somewhere you can keep her quietly entertained by saying the letter and ask what sound it makes, then demonstrate how they're blended to make CVC words (consonant vowel consonant). You say the letter name, "what does "I" say?" she answers the letter sound "i". You say the letter name, "what does "g" say?" she says the letter sound "g".

 

You say the letter sounds "what does "i" (pause) "g" say?" She says the sound blend "ig". You say the letter name "what sound does the letter p make?" she says the letter sound p. You say the sounds "what does "p" (pause) "ig" say? She answers pig. You say what word is that? She says pig, again.

[Embassy]

I don't want to kill her love of reading so I'm not sure what's not working. Should I just change my method and still use CHC as an introduction. Like introduce the word families but do 3-letter word bingo and such and let her explore starfall still?

 

ETA: phonics is the only area she does this in. Math she flies through (doing single digit addition, understands the concept of 0 and patterns and so on)

 

I'd probably play rhyming games with her and expose her to phonics through things like Starfall and LeapFrog DVDs. I think there is a fun LeapFrog fridge magnet set where you make short words. Keep reading and phonics fun and exciting at her age. My little girl has been playing around on her brother's old Leapster and is putting together CVC words on there and the Leapster sounds them out for her after she puts them together.

[blondeviolin]

I agree with boscopup. My oldest begged to read early and did so. She was sounding out CVC words at 2.5! BUT, she didn't really read until she was able to blend properly. That didn't come until somewhere around 4.5. Instead of beating it to death, put it aside and she will make leaps and bounds when you pick it up again in a couple of months.

 

It's a developmental readiness thing, not a smart-kid thing.

[jillian]

Thanks. We are going to put it away for a bit and play and just have fun with Super Why (we love this here), and Starfall and reading and all that :)

[jillian]

HOP can be done orally. The point behind phonics is that written English can be sounded out, the symbols stand for sounds. When you're killing time waiting somewhere you can keep her quietly entertained by saying the letter and ask what sound it makes, then demonstrate how they're blended to make CVC words (consonant vowel consonant). You say the letter name, "what does "I" say?" she answers the letter sound "i". You say the letter name, "what does "g" say?" she says the letter sound "g".

 

You say the letter sounds "what does "i" (pause) "g" say?" She says the sound blend "ig". You say the letter name "what sound does the letter p make?" she says the letter sound p. You say the sounds "what does "p" (pause) "ig" say? She answers pig. You say what word is that? She says pig, again.

This is very similar to what we are doing with the CHC program. All oral. She loves handwriting so we are doing a Kumon workbook with tracing the letters and all that. She flew through the CHC handwriting book and can do all her letters upper- and lowercase and them be fairly readable. We just do all oral reading stuff though

[La Texican]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255839&page=1

 

I guess you've read this thread describing the foundation of copywork, narration, dictation; kind of work on the skills separately. *They'll come together later. *

 

Reading eggs .com has been very fun for us. *A great feature was that after you got a certain amount of levels it unlocks what's called a story factory. * It gives you seven blank slots and ten or eleven pictures to arrange however you want (7 of them). *Then you make a story to go with the pictures. *I typed my son's stories. *Reading eggs costs, but I've heard it's cheap through the homeschool co-op. *

Also he's memorized practically the whole Junie B. Jones series word for word. *We get the audiobooks (not book and tapes) from the library. *I just guided his first book report today. *Just the title, author, plot, a few details. *I also just bought MCT's Peter Pan so I can see what kind of details to point out in children's literature. *

 

We did the Kumon Mazes and Letter tracing. *His handwriting is gr8, tight, legible. *He has just gone from having to "look up" letters during dictation to now he can take dictation and rarely have to look up at a letter. *I bought handwriting without tears cursive book/workbook. *We didn't get too far into cursive yet, but it has tightened his writing enough to fit nicely single lined wide rule paper. *I still have him draw an_underscore to "skip a space" in between words.

Edited October 27, 2011 by La Texican
I apologize. I don't know why my phone is inserting random asterisks.

[jillian]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255839&page=1

 

I guess you've read this thread describing the foundation of copywork, narration, dictation; kind of work on the skills separately. *They'll come together later. *

 

Reading eggs .com has been very fun for us. *A great feature was that after you got a certain amount of levels it unlocks what's called a story factory. * It gives you seven blank slots and ten or eleven pictures to arrange however you want (7 of them). *Then you make a story to go with the pictures. *I typed my son's stories. *Reading eggs costs, but I've heard it's cheap through the homeschool co-op. *

Also he's memorized practically the whole Junie B. Jones series word for word. *We get the audiobooks (not book and tapes) from the library. *I just guided his first book report today. *Just the title, author, plot, a few details. *I also just bought MCT's Peter Pan so I can see what kind of details to point out in children's literature. *

 

We did the Kumon Mazes and Letter tracing. *His handwriting is gr8, tight, legible. *He has just gone from having to "look up" letters during dictation to now he can take dictation and rarely have to look up at a letter. *I bought handwriting without tears cursive book/workbook. *We didn't get too far into cursive yet, but it has tightened his writing enough to fit nicely single lined wide rule paper. *I still have him draw an_underscore to "skip a space" in between words.

Thank you so much!!!! I will check out the thread and the other website later. She loves the Magic Treehouse Books so we read those together (nice and short so we can do a chapter at night if she wants something longer). DD's letters are getting better (going through them the second time now with the Kumon book). She's literally been on Starfall all day except for her rest time (2 hours) and errands after school. I also went to ProgressivePhonics .com with her today and she sounded out words without much prompting. She's been having a blast sounding out on Starfall today too.

[LMD]

DD practically learned to read by herself with Reading Eggs (at 4). No problem, I keep her challenged with good books. Now (at 6) we are almost through 2nd gr language arts material which goes over phonics rules. I guess what I'm saying is, I didn't let it hold her back from reading - quite the opposite - but formal phonics training came along-side already reading, and hasn't caused any issues (thus far!)

 

My 4y/o is so far following a similar path, so what you describe sounds familiar and good to me. HTH.

[desertmum]

It teaches a little bit of phonics, but not pure phonics ("When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking." is NOT a real phonics rule). Also, if your child does the "I'm reading" sections before they actually read (as my child did - he navigated the whole site), they'll be picking up a lot of words via sight.

 

My son basically started to read because of starfall, but he was mostly sight reading. This wasn't a big deal until he hit the 4th grade words and didn't have the phonics knowledge to handle multiple syllables. A couple levels of AAS got him past that point though, and now he's zoomed much farther ahead.

 

Thank you for this. I will now move on into either blend phonics or Word Mastery and sort-of start over, reinforcing what we have done.