Right Start Math Woes

[FlyingMOm]

We switched to Right Start Math this year and I am really struggling. I'd really appreciate any input or advice anyone could give me. Here are my issues:

 

#1: I think a big issue for me is ALL the STUFF! There are so many activities in each lesson and so many different manipulatives are needed. I feel like I am always scrambling, struggling to remember which set of cards is which, etc. I have a feeling that a really good organizational box might help- something like a small, clear, fishing tackle box. I don't know. What do you guys do with all of the stuff? How do you keep it organized and accessible?

 

#2: I've been trying to keep 7yo & 6yo together but I'm slowly realizing that this isn't going to work- 7yo loves math and should be way ahead of where she is- she's capable but being held back by 6yo. I think I am going to have to separate them so that she can move ahead. But RS takes so long for each lesson, and is so teacher-intensive. Looking ahead to next year when I will have a 3rd grade, 2nd grade and Kindy- I can't imagine doing 3 different 30+ minute math lessons each day and still being able to keep up with all of our other work. Has anyone used it successfully with multiple children? Any advice on doing this would be appreciated as I really don't want to switch away from RS.

 

ETA: Neither my 7yo or my 6yo are fluent readers yet so there is no way to hand them the book and have them do the lesson on their own.

Edited October 10, 2011 by FlyingMOm

[momacacia]

:bigear:

[ChrisB]

I have a clear plastic tub in which I house all the smaller manipulative. It is 1' long x 7" high x 8" wide. I just dig through it or have it next to me when I need it while I'm teaching.

 

I make sure the lesson with our 7 yr. old doesn't take any more than 30 min. (level C) She & I can't handle any longer. I only do one 10-15 min. lesson for our twin 5 yr olds. (level A) I've found that if I keep to those times or under, both they and I don't get frustrated. When we keep plugging away at these lessons, it is amazing how much we cover without feeling too overwhelmed.

 

Maybe your 7 yr. old can do a 20-30 min. lesson and your 6 yr. old can do a 15 min. lesson.

 

Next year you could add 5-10 min. on to your 6 yr. old's lesson and do a 10-15 min. lesson with the K-er.

 

You could also do a 4 day math lesson week with the 5th day as math card games that the kids could play together. Or you could do practice sheets on the 5th day. Sometimes if I feel like I need a break, then I will have a math game day or practice sheet day.

 

Those are my ideas. Hope this helps in some small way.

 

BTW, the higher levels of RS don't use as many manipulatives.

Edited October 10, 2011 by ChrisB

[FlyingMOm]

Maybe your 7 yr. old can do a 20-30 min. lesson and your 6 yr. old can do a 15 min. lesson.

 

So, this might sound like a dumb question, but how do you do this? Each lesson is at least 30 minutes long. Do you skip parts of the lesson? Or do you do half the lesson and then stop for that day and finish it the next?

[Momofeat]

I limit the time we spend per lesson too. For my Kindergartner, we start at the beginning & work for 15 minutes. I mark where we end, and we pick up at that spot the next day.

 

I allot 30 minutes for my oldest dd, and she often begins work on a second lesson in that amount of time.

 

Whenever possible, I group kids for games. Once I get them started, they can usually play without my direct supervision.

[ChrisB]

So, this might sound like a dumb question, but how do you do this? Each lesson is at least 30 minutes long. Do you skip parts of the lesson? Or do you do half the lesson and then stop for that day and finish it the next?

Not a dumb question. I find that some lessons we zoom through, therefore, we can finish within 30 min. Others we just do part (half or better), stop for that day, and finish it the next. I find that DD7 mentally quits after 25-30 min. and it becomes counterproductive. Overtime I'm also becoming a little better at deciphering what can be skipped, because she gets it already or quickly, or rewording and teaching it faster based on my teaching style and her learning style.

[ChrisB]

Whenever possible, I group kids for games. Once I get them started, they can usually play without my direct supervision.

Me too.

[acurtis75]

There was a blog this week on the mathusee website about teaching multiple children at the same time.

http://www.mathusee.com/2011/10/is-teaching-multiple-children-at-the-same-time-a-good-idea-math-u-see-newsletter-vol-30/

[urban mama]

I'll take a shot at both of your questions because these were both issues for me!!

 

first of all, this is what I used to organize all the stuff! (although mine has three levels plus the lid)

 

I bought it on sale at Joann with a coupon so it wasn't too expensive. After using it for over a year, the organizational benefit it offered me has been so great that I would have paid full price!! I love having a compartment for each manipulative, a level for the books, a level for the abacus, the tiles, the blocks...plenty of room to even add in a few extra manipulatives and my dd is able to put her math away lickety split without any help from me! It has worked great!

 

Now about having enough time...When we started RS B, my dd was way behind in math, hated math and practically burst into tears at the though of math. My two sons were plugging right along with Singapore Math. I left them in SM. There is no way I could have done RS with all three of them, too much time. Instead, I worked the lesson with dd, then all three would play the games, usually it would be review for the oldest and a new concept for my youngest but he is very 'mathy' and catches on quickly.

 

Even so, we still have had to drop RS because I work part-time and it is just too time instensive. I still love the curriculum. we still play the games but it gave my dd the foundation and confidence she needed to be able to scaffold into Math-u-see.

 

Hope this helps some

 

Karen

[EmilyGF]

Is your older daughter in RS C? I have my RS Cer do the lesson with me and then do the drawing alone. (We love the drawing.)

 

Then I go play games with my 4-year-old but stay within ear-shot.

 

The review lessons should be independent, practically. Maybe you could teach another child during that time.

 

Make sure the youngers are within ear-shot during the lesson. They will learn so much and future teaching will be easier. Sometimes I let my littles play with pattern blocks and miquon rods when I'm doing RS C with oldest.

 

You could use Miquon books for independent practice EOD so that you don't need to be involved in games daily.

 

Best,

 

Emily

[Kirch]

Well, I've only got two, but I figure that for the next couple of years, math will be pretty teacher intensive for both, no matter what I use. RS C is having more independent work (worksheets, practice sheets, etc.), so that has helped. With ds 7, I do try to finish a lesson a day (unless it says to take more than one), but there are times that we split it and finish it the next day. With ds 5, I just work for 20 minutes or so. I aim to finish a lesson a day, but I don't worry about it if we don't.

 

The biggest organizational help for me is to get everything ready the night before! We don't use the workbox system anymore, but we do still use the boxes to organize each day's work. I keep the cards and manipulatives in a drawer and I keep the ones we're currently using frequently in a basket on the same shelf where I keep the teacher's manuals. The night before, I check the lessons and put the cards/copies/manipulatives needed for each boy's lesson in his math box. That way it's ready to grab and go when we need it.

[go_go_gadget]

Personally, I think that math *should* be teacher-intensive, because if you're not working directly with them you don't know if they're truly understanding or just going through the motions. It's very possible to go through the motions without understanding for a very long time and then hit a wall, so I believe that constant, direct supervision of math work *while* it's being done (not just checking afterwards) it absolutely essential. Needless to say, I love RS for the early grades think the extra time is time well spent. I can see that doing three at a time would be daunting, but perhaps it would be less so if you use a block schedule and don't try to cover all subjects each day.

[jer2911mom]

I use a 3 drawer rolling cart for our math manipulatives. I also use plastic baggies for all the appendices cutouts. I cut out the heading at the top of the Appendix page and tape it to the inside of the baggy so I know what it is. I also marked what it translated to in the RS A page numbers (we are doing B this year) because I have another dd coming behind us who will be using the same manipulatives, and the page numbers are different for A and B. I have the various cards (dot, bead, etc.) marked in baggies as well so I can easily locate them.

 

Kathy

[sbgrace]

We switched to Right Start Math this year and I am really struggling. I'd really appreciate any input or advice anyone could give me. Here are my issues:

 

#1: I think a big issue for me is ALL the STUFF! There are so many activities in each lesson and so many different manipulatives are needed. I feel like I am always scrambling, struggling to remember which set of cards is which, etc. I have a feeling that a really good organizational box might help- something like a small, clear, fishing tackle box. I don't know. What do you guys do with all of the stuff? How do you keep it organized and accessible?

I have an over the door shoe holder thing with mesh pockets (21 double pockets--so 42 spots) that holds most of my RightStart materials. I just looked at the lesson and pull the materials listed at the beginning. Even the kids can grab what we need actually.

 

#2: I've been trying to keep 7yo & 6yo together but I'm slowly realizing that this isn't going to work- 7yo loves math and should be way ahead of where she is- she's capable but being held back by 6yo. I think I am going to have to separate them so that she can move ahead. But RS takes so long for each lesson, and is so teacher-intensive. Looking ahead to next year when I will have a 3rd grade, 2nd grade and Kindy- I can't imagine doing 3 different 30+ minute math lessons each day and still being able to keep up with all of our other work. Has anyone used it successfully with multiple children? Any advice on doing this would be appreciated as I really don't want to switch away from RS.

I think any well done math at this age is going to be teacher intensive. I mean I can't imagine a 7 year old really optimally learning math without the teacher right beside them. You could certainly do partial lessons though. Not including games I didn't spend 30 minutes on a lesson (we completed A and B, not C). With my math struggler we often didn't complete a lesson in a day however.

 

I taught my twins one-on-one/individually for RightStart A and B. Still, I kept my twins in the same lesson for most of RightStart and it was a mistake. Toward the end of B I let my math proficient go on his own and he's way ahead of his brother now. I regret holding him back to his twin's pace. That said, I taught both kids individually and didn't find it overwhelming in terms of time.

 

 

ETA: Neither my 7yo or my 6yo are fluent readers yet so there is no way to hand them the book and have them do the lesson on their own.

One of mine is a very proficient reader and a math natural. I still wouldn't hand him a math book and have him do it on his own. I'm now using Math in Focus and I do the entire lesson and sit with him through the workbook as well. Having said that, Math in Focus or a similar workbook program could be used more independently if you wanted. I wouldn't trade the basis RightStart B gave us though for another program. You can get the 7 year old through B or maybe even C and then switch to a more independent program perhaps.

 

I have a tendency to worry ahead of myself. It never helps! Don't borrow trouble re: next year's age spread if you can help it.

Edited October 10, 2011 by sbgrace

[black_midori]

Personally, I think that math *should* be teacher-intensive, because if you're not working directly with them you don't know if they're truly understanding or just going through the motions. It's very possible to go through the motions without understanding for a very long time and then hit a wall, so I believe that constant, direct supervision of math work *while* it's being done (not just checking afterwards) it absolutely essential. Needless to say, I love RS for the early grades think the extra time is time well spent. I can see that doing three at a time would be daunting, but perhaps it would be less so if you use a block schedule and don't try to cover all subjects each day.

:iagree:

I generally make my 7yo go through the steps out loud (even though we are close to done with the RS B book) - just so I can make sure to stop any problems before they start!! I can hear the wheels turning, and see right away when the train drops off the track :D.

 

I do the RSA with 5yo and RSB with 7yo - just 2 separate lessons. It generally takes 15 mins or so with the A and 30 mins with B - I just do separate lessons. When I first started RS, I tried to keep the 2 kids together (hoping, really) - it quickly stopped working, as I realized that even WITH math problems the 7yo was just being held back way too much and the 5yo being pushed way too hard.

 

I do several subjects with the 2 together, but Math will never be one of them! Hopefully as they get older, though, we can move to a self-guided independent math program... as long as they are still comfortable and confident, that is!

[ChrisB]

I have my RS Cer do the lesson with me and then do the drawing alone. The review lessons should be independent, practically. Maybe you could teach another child during that time.

 

Make sure the youngers are within ear-shot during the lesson. They will learn so much and future teaching will be easier.

We do this too. I teach the lesson, and, if possible, they do the worksheets independently. I'll start another lesson while the other one(s) are completing the worksheets/review lesson. I wonder too if the youngers learn faster because they were previously exposed by at least hearing the math lessons before.

 

Well, I've only got two, but I figure that for the next couple of years, math will be pretty teacher intensive for both, no matter what I use. RS C is having more independent work (worksheets, practice sheets, etc.), so that has helped.

:iagree:

Personally, I think that math *should* be teacher-intensive, because if you're not working directly with them you don't know if they're truly understanding or just going through the motions. It's very possible to go through the motions without understanding for a very long time and then hit a wall, so I believe that constant, direct supervision of math work *while* it's being done (not just checking afterwards) it absolutely essential.

:iagree:

I also use plastic baggies for all the appendices cutouts.

Me too.

[boscopup]

Personally, I think that math *should* be teacher-intensive, because if you're not working directly with them you don't know if they're truly understanding or just going through the motions.

 

While I agree with this, there are programs where the teacher is still teaching and working with the student, yet math goes a little faster. The teacher isn't fully involved in every single part of the lesson. For example, as I have one son using MM4 and one son using SM EM K, I can sit them next to each other, with me sitting slightly behind between them. I go over the new concept with DS1 and circle which problems he needs to do until the next teaching section. Then while he does those (I'm right there able to check his work as he goes along), I get DS2 started on his lesson.

 

I tried RS A with DS2 and had the same problem with the manipulatives and just feeling like I didn't know what was going on each day. It didn't make sense to me. DS2 and I both do better with a workbook type program. I'm still there during a lesson, but it's much, much shorter! We are now doing one page a day, plus some C-rods work on the concept of the day, and it takes 5-10 minutes (he's K4, so I don't want math to go long for him). He'll finish the K program by the end of the school year easily at this pace, and he's clearly learning, whereas with RS, the scattered presentation seemed to be confusing him. He could do what was asked, but he didn't look like he was really learning math. Now he's obviously learning math.

 

You don't HAVE to have RS in order to get a good foundation in math. I'm not saying you should not use it. Just saying not to let guilt keep you using it if it truly isn't working for your family. I see a lot of people posting all the time that RS is the "best foundation", and I truly don't think it's the only way to go. There are many paths to a good foundation. :)

[Crimson Wife]

I tried RS A with DS2 and had the same problem with the manipulatives and just feeling like I didn't know what was going on each day. It didn't make sense to me...with RS, the scattered presentation seemed to be confusing him. He could do what was asked, but he didn't look like he was really learning math. Now he's obviously learning math.

 

I love, love, :001_wub: RS B, but I don't care very much for A because it is kind of all over the place IMHO. I actually wish that Dr. Cotter had NOT added it to RS, because I think a lot of people who would probably really like B get turned off by a bad experience with A.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

We keep our manipulatives in a clear plastic tote. I look at the list at the beginning of the lesson and just gather the supplies before we start. Things like place value cards and base ten picture cards have stickers on the bags, so it is easy to find them even if I can't remember what they are called. So far only the math balance doesn't fit in the tote.

 

Each Level A lesson is meant to be split into two days. This means that there are less different things in one day and it takes less time. There are very few worksheets, which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the student. For us it was good. DD is doing better with worksheets now in level B, but she still learns better by interacting with me.

 

I do skip some things in the lessons, mostly just repetition when I know that dd understands something with the first or second question, but other times there will be something that I just know that dd understands very well and doesn't need to do. No need to waste our time.

 

With that being said, you may decide that RightStart is a good fit for some of your kids but not for others. Right now I'm using MEP for my Kindergarten student. We might try RightStart at some point but I'm not sure it will be the best approach for him. I think Miquon would work well for him, if I could ever get around to figuring it out.

[FlyingMOm]

 

first of all, this is what I used to organize all the stuff! (although mine has three levels plus the lid)

 

 

Karen- As soon as I get the Sunday paper with the coupon for Michaels, I'll be out the door. I can't get there fast enough. ha! This looks great and I think it will be a big help in keeping things organized & hopefully running smoother.

 

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions- I plan on reading through the rest of this thread at naptime.

[Osaubi]

We don't do always do a lesson a day. If my ds gets it we move at a faster pace. If he doesn't we may spend days on it until he does. As long as I can see we are moving forward it doesn't matter how long it takes us to do the book.

 

This week we are only playing multiplication games from the math games book. Since he is the oldest I play the games with him. We usually play games for 20 to 30 min.

 

My dd is doing a combo btwn Math Mammoth and RS B. So her math lesson varies. Her math is usually over when I see her eyes start to glaze over.