Is it dyslexia if my dd can read but can't remember d or b at age 14?

[TravelingChris]

My 14 yo dd can read well. But she stills has problems remembering which way b and d goes. She doesn't mix up any other letters or numbers. Would it be useful to get her evaluated for dyslexia? We have notices here in the paper that she could be evaluated for free (homeschoolers are included).

[TravelingChris]

More information= she doesn't like to read out loud. SHe does make mistakes then like substituting words that fit but aren't there. Any help on dyslexia here?

[ElizabethB]

Sound like possible dyslexia.

 

Also possible, a vision problem or sight word teaching.

 

Here are some B/D exercises for you:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dbdb.html

 

I would do a free test if it would not go on a record anywhere. More information is usually good.

 

If they do a covd type vision test, I would definitely try to do it. That is a test worth paying money for to screen out vision problems and if there are vision problems, you can work to remediate those. Otherwise, diagnostic money is often better spent towards an OG program.

[PeterPan]

Sorry you're feeling ignored! Like the other Elizabeth, I would say it could go either way. It could be vision exclusively causing those symptoms, or vision plus dyslexia. Or just dyslexia. http://www.covd.org is where you go to find a developmental optometrist to get the more thorough vision eval. They have all kinds of tools to check the intricacies of her tracking, focusing, etc. to figure out if that's what's causing it. Then, having eliminated that, you start working through the rest.

[RamonaQ]

Excellent books:

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz

 

Personally, I would seek diagnosis from a reputable source (ie- someone not trying to sell you something). I would also seek diagnosis to allow for accomodations in testing situations (extra-time, having a reader/ scribe or having a word processor). The best diagnosis will outline accomodations and also identify appropriate therapy/ resources.

 

ETA: Also so you know, dyslexia is not just about reading. There are other challenges, some less tractable than reading, such as writing and procedural operations.

Edited October 5, 2011 by RamonaQ

[TravelingChris]

She certainly did not have sight reading teaching, we did phonics. She doesn't have an issue with capitals, just lower case. She does have some visual issues so that is probably a good place to start.

[PeterPan]

You know phonics is a funny thing. There are some people (Sanseri, author of SWR included) who imply that poor teaching CREATES dyslexia. I remember reading that and being so glad I was enlightened and teaching my dd correctly so I wouldn't *cause* dyslexia in her. SNORT. And the flip side is the implication that proper instruction (whatever that is) prevents or remediates dyslexia. That too is not true. Dyslexia is a totally different brain structure, brain processing. You just have to read the book. (Dyslexic Advantage)

 

I taught my dd with SWR using the *flashcards* Sanseri recommends. In other words, she couldn't sound out to read. I put the words we had studied onto flashcards and showed them to her over and over until she memorized them. She sculpted a lot from age 6 on. What reversals she had in K5 stopped (which I'm now wondering if that was thanks to the sculpting, she has relatives who do have reversals, ie. it's in the genes) and she reads LIKE THE WIND. I read in Dyslexic Advantage about how dyslexics are doomed to read slowly and wonder WHY people are still slogging these kids through phonics. The very structure of the dyslexic brain is totally opposed to practice as a method of learning. It requires too much processing, takes too long. Yes they need to understand, absolutely. But you have to pair that with something that gets them to rote. In fact, shudders, based on what I'm reading in DA/Eides, I'm now going to go invest in a set of MATH FLASHCARDS!!!!!!

 

Where was I going with that? Hehehe. Phonics doesn't prevent dyslexia, doesn't cause dyslexia, and might not even help. I don't know. I was trying to be cathartic about the psychological guilt we sometimes feel, that maybe we *caused* this by the way we taught or didn't teach. We didn't.

[LaughingCat]

I'm confused, OhElizabeth - how are you differentiating flashcards from practice? Aren't flashcards a type of practice?

 

I suppose I just need to buckle down and read that copy of Dyslexic Advantage I have out of the library :D

 

LL

[PeterPan]

Ooo, someone bit! Well to wax philosophical (because I was thinking about this today), I'll say I bit into the idea when she was little that kids ought to understand their way into math and that if you just let them understand it, eventually it would come, rote was bad, flashcards create trauma, blah blah. Nuts, there's even a book to that title ("Einstein Didn't Use Flashcards" --I have it on my shelf here to read!). But as I've been reading "The Dyslexic Advantage, I suddenly realize how FOOLISH that was, how contrary to their very brain structure. I mean the book is saying EVERYTHING we've been feeling all along. Doing things over and over via what the Eides call procedural processing just wears them out. It takes such an extreme amount to get that over to the other side of the brain to automaticity.

 

So I was piecing that together with how WELL my dd did learning to read via flashcards, and I'm wondering WHY I resisted for so long. I'm not saying ONLY flashcards. I'm just asking myself why flashcards couldn't be another tool to move things over to the automaticity side of the brain when the kids have DONE the procedure, get the procedure, and just need it to become automatic?

 

See even the flashcards I bought in years past were the triangle cards (7-8-15, that type thing), still requiring processing. That might be great for regular kids. Our kids (2E) get the process super-duper fast but need some relief from doing it over and over to get automaticity. That's the part that wears them out is the extreme amount of repetition.

 

So I don't know. That's what I'm pondering. I just always try to be provocative. I don't even have any, so I don't know if I'm going to buy or make them. Maybe it's just as simple as walking into walmart or meijer? :)

[FairProspects]

See even the flashcards I bought in years past were the triangle cards (7-8-15, that type thing), still requiring processing. That might be great for regular kids. Our kids (2E) get the process super-duper fast but need some relief from doing it over and over to get automaticity. That's the part that wears them out is the extreme amount of repetition.

 

So I don't know. That's what I'm pondering. I just always try to be provocative. I don't even have any, so I don't know if I'm going to buy or make them. Maybe it's just as simple as walking into walmart or meijer? :)

 

Thank you for this! I really need to find that book. After poking around on some websites last night and talking to dh, I'm fairly certain ds has some dyslexia going on. All of what you are saying makes so much sense and explains why I feel like I am banging my head against a wall with teaching him phonics.

[TravelingChris]

I have to get that book- Dyslexia advantage. It really seems that my youngest has this. We do physics with me reading aloud and her answering questions and discussion with me. She really gets physics. But even there- she wants me to skip the repetitious explanations since she gets them the first time or often even often before the text explains. WE had to switch her history to SWb's history because she relates to narrations and not plain fact summaries.

[PeterPan]

Yeah, reading DA is kind of like somebody got inside your kid's head and just started shining a LIGHTBULB around so you can see what's going on. It's a definite read. I read very few (VERY FEW) books cover to cover, and this one is ranking.

[PeterPan]

Thank you for this! I really need to find that book. After poking around on some websites last night and talking to dh, I'm fairly certain ds has some dyslexia going on. All of what you are saying makes so much sense and explains why I feel like I am banging my head against a wall with teaching him phonics.

 

Well I'll just say it again. My dd couldn't/wouldn't sound out to read, and even now I never have her try. If we had gone that way, she'd be as crappy a reader as any other dyslexic I know. I taught her with SWR and she's an ASTOUNDING reader. We understood the words, then we put them on flashcards and inhaled them whole. Didn't help her with sounding out, but when you combine it with an absurd amount of read alouds and audiobooks per day (I'm talking 2-4 minimum), it worked out, at least for us.

 

Yes, a couple days ago she was asking me if we could meet a friend and go to the "meteor" park in the big city. It's a *metro* park. ;) Guess she still doesn't sound out much. LOL You don't have to sound out to be able to read.

[Walking-Iris]

I agree with having kids read out loud a lot as well as listening to you read out loud---even to big kids---and audiobooks.

 

Reading this thread because I'm a tad worried about my 4 year old who is reversing a lot of letters, or printing them properly but starting backwards. AND he doesn't like read aloud time---gets so squirmy. Except at bedtime---but then he still doesn't really just relax and listen.

 

Definitely going to give that book a read!

[wapiti]

Reading this thread because I'm a tad worried about my 4 year old who is reversing a lot of letters, or printing them properly but starting backwards. AND he doesn't like read aloud time---gets so squirmy. Except at bedtime---but then he still doesn't really just relax and listen.

 

But, all that sounds age-appropriate. Try not to borrow trouble ;).

[PhunandFonics]

She's a good reader, but how about her spelling? I would say that if spelling was an issue it might be worth investigating. There are many layers to this puzzle and reading is just the most obvious one. Comprehension problems and spelling issues could also be indicators of dyslexia.

[Walking-Iris]

But, all that sounds age-appropriate. Try not to borrow trouble ;).

 

 

I know right? But my oldest never reversed a single letter ever and could sit and listen to stacks of stories. It's a bit nerve wracking.

[peacefully]

.

[LaughingCat]

She has suggested that I use flashcards in the same format as our speech exercises, so like a rapid naming exercise, then have him organize the flashcards in a matrix (which is like our visual matching exercise), then have him find the flashcards in the matrix (which is like our auditory memory and sequencing exercise).

 

I am just completely fascinated by this, because it's a way of utilizing flashcards that I've never come across before. But anyway, I am completely connecting with this idea that while our kids might get the concepts quickly, they need a way that works with their processing to master rote information too.

 

Oh, that's excellent! I'd been mulling over the whole flash card thing - because I wasn't getting how it was different from rote learning. Flash cards being in my head intricately linked with the painful phonics flash cards we did 2 years ago :glare: I hadn't linked them at all to how I had just started using some of the VT exercises to practice both visual memory and reading at the same time: I've been showing DD a slip of paper with 2 very similar words on it very quickly and then having her tell me afterward whether the words on it were the same or different (also been doing dolch phrases and having her tell me what the words were). Duh! never thought of that as being flash cards but of course it is.

[PeterPan]

This is so interesting. I was just having a conversation with our SLP just this week about flashcards. Off the cuff, I mentioned how ds seems to have such a great grasp of math concepts, even math procedures, but he works so s-l-o-w-l-y through his problems sets because he seems to conceptually build and regroup number bonds for every single math fact. We are doing multiple-digit, multiple-number addition problems now, so this is agonizingly slow for him to add each digit together in his conceptually-correct, but painstakingly complex way. She told me to use flashcards. :001_huh:

 

Her explanation is that is fine that I teach conceptually, but since I was giving ds all the information about "math facts" while his processing was totally scrambled, he doesn't have those facts cemented in an organized way. Now that he's about to graduate from ST, she says I need go back and deliver that information again in an organized way that works with his processing. She has suggested that I use flashcards in the same format as our speech exercises, so like a rapid naming exercise, then have him organize the flashcards in a matrix (which is like our visual matching exercise), then have him find the flashcards in the matrix (which is like our auditory memory and sequencing exercise).

 

I am just completely fascinated by this, because it's a way of utilizing flashcards that I've never come across before. But anyway, I am completely connecting with this idea that while our kids might get the concepts quickly, they need a way that works with their processing to master rote information too.

 

Hmmm... I think I may have to finish reading DA... I just don't get how you ladies are managing all this reading! And posting! ;)

 

Yllek, you are, as usual, incredibly insightful!!! Yes, yes, this is EXACTLY what I meant!! This is the lightning bolt I had with DA!! *Because* the processing is so tedious they *need* to get it into automatic recall. And I think your SLP's idea of working on them visually, as a whole, is FABULOUS. My oh my, so perfect.

 

So much reading? Well I skip a lot, start at the back, and am generally impatient or imperfect about it. I take notes so I'm free to read faster and forget. And my kid was sick the week before, meaning I had time to do other stuff like haunt the boards. ;)