Requiring chicken pox vaccine in our public school - Looking for your thoughts

[summer]

The other thing one needs to know when using the Chicken Pox vaccination is how it was developed....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicella_vaccine

Additional controversy has arisen because cell lines derived from aborted fetal tissue were used in its development, and thus violates the ethics and beliefs of people who oppose the use of aborted fetal tissue in medical research.CDC

 

 

If you say you are okay with the Chicken Pox vaccination, then you are saying you are OK with using this kind of technology. Perhaps you are, in which case, fine. But it is a little 2 faced to vote prolife or be prolife or against any of this kind of research if you are going to continue to use the results of this kind of technology.

[Capt_Uhura]

SpyCar - here's a short article for you. http://www.news-medical.net/?id=12896

 

Yes, makes sense that since the immune system is declining in adults, you'd need a higher dose of vaccine.

[Perry]

Yep- and it's also the reason it can't be used in kids.

[Capt_Uhura]

Summer - do you have any documentation that vax children are getting increased rates of shingles?

 

I found these articles:

 

http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/WELCOME/immunizations/chickenpox.html

 

After having chickenpox, the chickenpox virus stays dormant in your body. In some children, it can become reactivated and cause shingles. The main symptoms of shingles is a rash on one side of the body that begins as a cluster of red bumps. These bumps then change into small blisters or vesicles that soon crust over. Your child may also feel itchy, but will otherwise be well. The rash usually continues to develop for a few days and then completely crust over and go away in about seven to ten days without treatment.

 

You can also get shingles after receiving the chickenpox vaccine, but it appears to be much less common than occurs in children that have a natural chickenpox infection. So decreasing your child's chance of getting shingles may be another good reason for getting the chickenpox vaccine.

 

http://www.newsforparents.org/expert_chicken_pox_vaccine.html

 

Another potential benefit of the vaccine is that, up to the present, there are 80 percent fewer cases of shingles in vaccinated children than in non-vaccinated children.

[TracyR]

I can commpletely understand why they would do this . With having an immune suppresed child myself . Some children who have immune disorders cannot take certain vaccinations either at the time they need to or just never . Not all chronically ill children are homeschooled either, many attend brick and mortar schools and honestly you don't know who those children are . They are not always the ones in the special ed rooms :>) You would never know that my daughter was born with several birth defects and a compromised immune system by looking at her .

So in that light I can understand . Even though chicken pox for the most part can be benign to most children , there is a population out there that those 'simple' viruses can hospitalize or kill .

Trust me this is coming from a mom who was very much against vaccinations until we had our youngest .

 

Also even after you've built up a natural immunity to chicken pox you are then at high risk at contracting shingles ( which is caused by the same chicken pox virus ) . This is an EXTREMELY painful illness . My mother in law is 66 and she workes in a nursing home and contracted this . Yes, she had the chicken pox as a child and thought she was totally immune to such things . WEll she wasn't and she was in just such immense pain ( and trust me she has a high tolerance to pain ) from it .

Now I've been doing my research and I don't really know at this point if the chicken pox vaccine would give a life long immunity or not ( remember the MMR when they though that would only to find out it didn't and there had to be 2nd boosters ? ) .

Either way I can understand why the school did it . Coming from a personal view of having a special needs child with physical disabilities .

[Guest Cassie1]

My kids will be starting in a new school district so last week they got their 2nd varicella vaccination to "comply". One of the three had a mild local reaction.

 

Summer, I got shingles when I was in 8th grade as a result of chicken pox. That was back in 1984.

 

Hi Capt- I was wondering if it would be advisable for me to get varicella to ward off shingles when I get older, considering I had shingles as a child. As a child it wasn't too bad, just mild pain for a few hours and then a painless rash, but I know it can be much much worse as an adult.

 

In Japan, children are not required to get the chicken pox and mumps vaccines. Since these are vaccines that parents must pay for vice the free vaccines, most parents opt for natural immunity. The doctors often advise that natural immunity is better than the vaccine, so many are just following doctors' advice. There are outbreaks of chicken pox and vaccines in the preschools and elementary schools, but usually it is not a problem. Moms often schedule playdates with infected children to help their children contract the diseases- lol. I believe that it is important to develop immunity as a child, either by natural exposure or the vaccine- whichever is more predominant in the country in which you live. In the US where the majority of children are vaccinated, it is more difficult to contract the disease and develop natural immunity. In Japan, if the child does not contract the disease when young, most parents then opt for the vaccine before the child leaves elementary school to prevent problems with contracting the disease later in life.

[BabyBre]

In Japan, children are not required to get the chicken pox and mumps vaccines. Since these are vaccines that parents must pay for vice the free vaccines, most parents opt for natural immunity. The doctors often advise that natural immunity is better than the vaccine, so many are just following doctors' advice. There are outbreaks of chicken pox and vaccines in the preschools and elementary schools, but usually it is not a problem. Moms often schedule playdates with infected children to help their children contract the diseases- lol. I believe that it is important to develop immunity as a child, either by natural exposure or the vaccine- whichever is more predominant in the country in which you live. In the US where the majority of children are vaccinated, it is more difficult to contract the disease and develop natural immunity. In Japan, if the child does not contract the disease when young, most parents then opt for the vaccine before the child leaves elementary school to prevent problems with contracting the disease later in life.

 

 

Thank you, Cassie, that's very interesting. That would lead one to understand that the US will have, if it doesn't already, a significantly higher rate of shingles in adults who were never afforded the oportunity to develop a natural immunity as children.

 

While my dc are young, I'm going to try to get them a chickenpox playdate. If we can't build a natural immunity while they're young, I guess we'll deal with that when the time comes.

[Liz Mc in SC]

When my dd was 10 mon. old I purposefully exposed her to chicken pox, exactly 21 days later she broke out with them. I was thrilled -- the vaccine was being used more and more and I didn't want her to have it either. She is 12 now -- and last summer had her first case of shingles.

 

The Dr. swears she would not have had shingles had she been vaccinated. So now I'm being encouraged to have my 10 yr old son vaccinated. Shingles aren't fun. And though my daughters case was mild, it was still extreemly painful. I still don't want my son to be vaccinated.

 

As a parent I think we just want to get it right. And only you know what's right for your child. If it goes against the public norm, than accept that you have to adjust to them, because they will not adjust to you. Think of this time with your dd as a special time you wouldn't have otherwise had.

[Capt_Uhura]

That would lead one to understand that the US will have, if it doesn't already, a significantly higher rate of shingles in adults who were never afforded the opportunity to develop a natural immunity as children.

 

 

Here is the current dogma. Shingles occurs when immunity to varicella wanes with age. It is thought that elderly who are periodically exposed to varicella, for ex: by playing w/ grandkids who have chicken pox, are naturally boosting their immunity. Hence those folks do not get shingles. So if chicken pox is rare in the community, elderly folk who had chicken pox in childhood, do not get that natural immunity boost, hence increase in rate of shingles. To prevent, there is a vaccine (higher dose of childhood varicella vaccine) for the elderly to give them that boost they are not getting through natural exposure. For those that never had chicken pox, they can't get shingles.

[Guest teela72]

I know and understand you feel like the system is trying to control you, but if they had this vaccine when we were kids do you think our moms would have kept it from us. I don't think God invented the Chicken pox. What a horrible thing to make your child go through. Almost every childhood disease has an inoculation and we don't hesitate to give it to them. Why should this one be any different? The system is trying to protect all.

[manylilblessings]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/10/prweb83848.php

 

Here's the documentation that shingles is on the rise in children, and it's being attributed to the increased rate of varicella vaccine.

[Guest Cassie1]

From the article posted upstream ( http://www.news-medical.net/?id=12896 )

 

"The principal reason that vaccinees in Japan maintained high levels of immunity 20 years following vaccination was that only 1 in 5 (or 20%) of Japanese children were vaccinated," he said. "So those vaccinated received immunologic boosting from contact with children with natural chickenpox. But the universal varicella vaccination program in the U.S. will nearly eradicate this natural boosting mechanism and will leave our population vulnerable to shingles epidemics."

 

This has also been experience in Japan; it seems to me that around 1/4 of Japanese children get varicella. The same is the case for mumps vaccine in Japan, although mumps doesn't have a subsequent occurance like pox/shingles.

 

I also wonder whether contracting shingles as a child (as I did after having chicken pox) would increase my chances for shingles in the future. I don't have evidence, but I would tend to think that the shingles would have been a natural boost to my immunity. Also living in Japan may have helped me and my children :) . I know that many of my childrens' classmates have exposed my vaccinated children to pox!

 

I just heard that one of my children's classmates got the mumps vaccine in the the time frame between being exposed to the mumps and exhibiting the symptoms. He developed mumps just a few days after the vaccine, so he really got a double dose... poor kid.

[Capt_Uhura]

I just want to clarify that article. I posted about this above. The varicella vax is not causing shingles directly ie vaccinated kids are not later getting shingles due to the vaccine. Due to a decrease in varicella in the population, people who have had either chicken pox or have been vaccinated, are not getting a natural boost to their immunity to varicella via exposure to infected individuals. A simple booster w/ the vax will take care of this issue. the other option is to to not vaccinate until kids are older and allow varicella to rise again in order to boost immunity in individuals who have had chicken pox or have been vaccinated.

[Jen500]

I just want to clarify that article. I posted about this above. The varicella vax is not causing shingles directly ie vaccinated kids are not later getting shingles due to the vaccine. Due to a decrease in varicella in the population, people who have had either chicken pox or have been vaccinated, are not getting a natural boost to their immunity to varicella via exposure to infected individuals. A simple booster w/ the vax will take care of this issue. the other option is to to not vaccinate until kids are older and allow varicella to rise again in order to boost immunity in individuals who have had chicken pox or have been vaccinated.

My kids both had the vaccine and later, a very mild case of chicken pox. Does this mean they're less likely to get shingles?

[tibbyl]

I signed a waiver on the varicella vaccine for my 1st grade dd because I would much rather she had the disease and developed a natural immunity as God seems to have intended with this disease.

 

Because there's been an outbreak at her ps, they're now sending home for 21 days every child who doesn't have 2 shots against chicken pox! I don't really mind this because she gets the bulk of her education at home anyway, but I'm distraught that I feel I'm being bullied by the public school system. Nearly every adult I know went through chicken pox as a child. What's wrong with that?

 

I know serious complications can arrise, but that could be said about many other illnesses kids get as well. I dealt with chicken pox in my older ds years ago. I'd much rather do it again than inject what I feel is an unneccessary vaccine into my daughter.

 

I wanted to get some of your thoughts on this ps policy and on some of the decisions you've made regarding vaccinations for your children.

 

TIA

 

Numerous states have laws stating that the waivers are invalid during times of epidemic.

[sarahli]

I had my titers tested, and I did not have immunity (I had a very mild case at 2 yo). It was an easy decision, I received the two vaccinations, and my son was vaccinated. I definitely don't want chicken pox at this age, nor do I want my son to give them to me.

[BabyBre]

Numerous states have laws stating that the waivers are invalid during times of epidemic.

 

 

I'll look for that. I've been wondering how our county could get around state law.

 

Thanks.

[sweetbaby]

I have been on both ends. I am a nurse but also a mom. I have had my younger children vaccinated after my olders dc, who I waivered from getting the vac, had contracted an extreme case of chicken pox. They were extremely ill. My younger children who were vaccinated did not even contract it during this time so I am grateful for that. I am now for it. The vac can actually lessen a case of pox compared to not having the vac or prevent an outbreak altogether. Severe pox can lead to death.

[sweetbasil]

The Dr. swears she would not have had shingles had she been vaccinated.

 

Your doctor is misinformed, and I would do some of my own research so that I could be armed with facts before going back to the office.

 

Shingles is on the rise, especially in children, BECAUSE of the vaccine. Since the wild strains of varicella are becoming more rare, people are not getting the regular natural "boosters" that they used to (i.e. asymptomatic infection). Regular exposure prevents shingles.

 

Additionally, the efficacy of the vax is highly questionable. The reason more and more boosters keep being added to the schedule is because we are finding that the vaccine immunity lasts much less time than hoped.

 

Also understand that the weaker the immune response, the more likely one is to contract shingles at a later date. Natural infection nearly always elicits a stronger immune response than a vaccine, even though the Varicella vax contains the live virus. Natural infection is longer lasting, as well.

 

There is also the ethical issues of aborted fetal cell lines, and the toxicity of the vaccine ingredients, but those are topics for another time.

 

HTH someone! :)

[Spy Car]

I posted earlier in the thread that I'm pro-vaccine (in part because I got shingles recently) but after reading some of the posts here it does have me "re-thinking" my position with an open mind.

 

I also watched a long interview with a Naturopath recently. He was very opposed to the vaccine, feeling it was imperative that the immune system needed to be challenged and strengthened in youth, to allow it to fight not only viruses, but also things such as cancers.

 

I will keep my thinking cap on. I'm quite sure I never want to experience shingles again, that is for sure!

 

Bill

[Mommyof4ks]

This is the one vaccine that I will not revaccinate my cancer kiddo with, because it did not work for any of them. My DD got the cp, but her case was mild, and my middle son got the cp from the vaccine (cp has an incubation period of 21 days, and does anyone want to guess how long from the shot date until the first spots?). My youngest son did get the pox while on chemo and we were blessed that he did not have any issues from it, but I don't know if it was because he got the shot or if that would have been his response to it without the shot since his tither could have been destroyed by the chemo.

 

My opinion would obviously be different if my kids had suffered from a severe case. There is really no way to know how a kiddo is going to react to the vaccine or the disease, so it comes down to what we feel is right for our kids.

 

As far as kids being sent home from school I don't know how I feel about that these days. My youngest being exposed to some of those bugs could be deadly, but by the time it was discovered in the child that started the outbreak everyone would already have been exposed so what is gained by sending those not vaccinated home? Also, those that are not vaccinated against the flu are not sent home when there is a flu outbreak and that kills alot of people every year, so why pick on the cp.

 

Alot to think about that is for sure!

 

Just my 2 cents.