Harriet Vane Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 We just had the roof replaced on our 110yo Victorian. The attic is kinda-sorta finished. A former owner put in super-cheap walls and a closet, and we heat it by opening the attic door and letting heat from the house rise. There is also electricity up there, and at one point we actually put our home office in there. There is plumbing up there for a radiator, but the radiator is not currently hooked up or functional--since heat rises from the house effectively we've never bothered with the radiator. The roofer put in four vents without checking with us about our attic usage. He has offered to cover them if we so desire. My dh is concerned about the attic being cold in the winter. This would have two effects: it decreases the attic's ability to act as an insulative layer to our non-insulated home, AND our tenants want to use the space as a man-cave for the husband/father of the family. I am concerned that if we cover the vents we will have mold. BUT I want our tenants to have use of the space if they want it. Any roofers or contractors out there? How about some been-there-done-that experience? Any advice? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I would be willing to bet those vents don't let much cold air in. I am willing to bet however, that they will make your attic much cooler in the summer. This summer we had a ridge vent put in when our new roof was put on and it lowered the temp of our upstairs by about 10 degree. Even if your vent is not a ridge vent, I suspect you will find the same thing. The way the vents are designed doesn't really allow for cold air to come it. At least that is my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I would be willing to bet those vents don't let much cold air in. I am willing to bet however, that they will make your attic much cooler in the summer. Yes. Our roofers forgot to put the vents in our garage roof. It was unbearably hot in the attic, and I don't mean just uncomfortably warm. They returned, put in vents, and now, while I still wouldn't want to sit around in our attic storage (because I'd sweat and there are spiders), we're not concerned about the heat damaging our things. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks for offering those thoughts. I am curious about your location? My house is in Chicago, where the winters can get ugly and cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'm in the PNW. So our winters aren't nearly as cold as yours. But (I think) the summers aren't as hot, either. On an 80 degree day, it was truly unbearable in our attic, and we've got the neighbor's trees shading the attic roof so it wasn't in full sunshine. I did find this, maybe it will help?: http://www.roofhelp.com/ventilation_main.htm Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I would imagine that if the vents let hot air out in summer, they would let warm air out in winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 My DH has overseen the building of thousands of houses (as a manager) and I have NEVER heard of a roof being put on without vents. Most of the those houses were in Kansas and Missouri (so, cold in the winter). Roof ventilation for warm and cold weather. http://www.dspinspections.com/atticventing.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I wouldn't cover them. My formerly-roofing husband never put in a roof without vents- it's against housing codes for many good reasons. And my only experience in a house where the vents were covered led to a serious mold problem in the attic which resulted in our family having to move out of the apartment for 5 weeks while the attic and upstairs ceilings were replaced (it took a year to convince our landlords that there was a serious problem). The non-functioning vents weren't the only problem with the roof, but they certainly contributed to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Contrary to popular belief, houses can and are built without attic vents...even ridge vents... especially those with finished attics (across the country). Most of these newer homes use alternative insulation systems (spray foam on the rafters, or SIPS), but air exchange is still necessary. In highly efficient "tight" homes (such as SIPS or ICF, or spray foam), where the house is essentially a complete "seal," homes require an ERV (energy recovery ventilation)... my house has one ;). The ERV allows for outside air to be exchanged with inside air... and proper ventilation. In the situation you describe, where the attic is "kinda-sorta finished" and relies on air exchange from the other floors for its heating and cooling, you will have heat loss through the vents in the winter, just like turning on the heat and opening a window. During the summer, they will allow for air to escape as well. You didn't mention how warm it was when you used it... but again, most finished attics to have some sort of ventilation (they used to be windows...) If no one is using the attic, keep the door shut and make sure there is weatherstripping on the door to keep as much hot/cool air from escaping. If you intend to use the attic, and keep it open to the floors below, the vents (at minimum) need to be covered and sealed, or you will be heating the outdoors during the winter. Lastly, I would have someone check to make sure the roof/kinda-sorta finishing was done properly. If it is not, air leakage is the least of your concerns. Ice dams (wrecking the roof, causing leaks) is a much greater concern for improperly vented/insulated attics (especially in Chicago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I would have someone check to make sure the roof/kinda-sorta finishing was done properly. If it is not, air leakage is the least of your concerns. Ice dams (wrecking the roof, causing leaks) is a much greater concern for improperly vented/insulated attics (especially in Chicago). :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Contrary to popular belief, houses can and are built without attic vents...even ridge vents... especially those with finished attics (across the country). Most of these newer homes use alternative insulation systems (spray foam on the rafters, or SIPS), but air exchange is still necessary. In highly efficient "tight" homes (such as SIPS or ICF, or spray foam), where the house is essentially a complete "seal," homes require an ERV (energy recovery ventilation)... my house has one ;). The ERV allows for outside air to be exchanged with inside air... and proper ventilation. In the situation you describe, where the attic is "kinda-sorta finished" and relies on air exchange from the other floors for its heating and cooling, you will have heat loss through the vents in the winter, just like turning on the heat and opening a window. During the summer, they will allow for air to escape as well. You didn't mention how warm it was when you used it... but again, most finished attics to have some sort of ventilation (they used to be windows...) If no one is using the attic, keep the door shut and make sure there is weatherstripping on the door to keep as much hot/cool air from escaping. If you intend to use the attic, and keep it open to the floors below, the vents (at minimum) need to be covered and sealed, or you will be heating the outdoors during the winter. Lastly, I would have someone check to make sure the roof/kinda-sorta finishing was done properly. If it is not, air leakage is the least of your concerns. Ice dams (wrecking the roof, causing leaks) is a much greater concern for improperly vented/insulated attics (especially in Chicago). Thanks for the detailed thoughts. One clarification: The attic was kinda-sorta finished decades ago by an amateur. After we bought the house we did have an electrician clean up the wiring in the attic, so the electricity is completely modern and done correctly. The plumbing for the non-hooked-up radiator is also modern--we had that done while-we-were-at-it rehabbing the bathroom on the floor below. So with the wiring and plumbing up to code, it doesn't seem like we need someone to check that the attic is okay, right? Along the same lines, you're not also suggesting having our brand new roof checked? We've known our roofer for many,many years and have many glowing recommendations for his work. I really do trust that his work is to the highest standard When he did our roof, though, he assumed that we didn't use the attic for living space. In the years just prior to our move, we didn't use it for anything other than storage, though in the past we used it for a home office or rec room. Our roofer knew that we had used it for storage and wasn't aware that my tenants wanted to use it for living space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Contrary to popular belief, houses can and are built without attic vents...even ridge vents... especially those with finished attics (across the country). Most of these newer homes use alternative insulation systems (spray foam on the rafters, or SIPS), but air exchange is still necessary. In highly efficient "tight" homes (such as SIPS or ICF, or spray foam), where the house is essentially a complete "seal," homes require an ERV (energy recovery ventilation)... my house has one ;). The ERV allows for outside air to be exchanged with inside air... and proper ventilation. In the situation you describe, where the attic is "kinda-sorta finished" and relies on air exchange from the other floors for its heating and cooling, you will have heat loss through the vents in the winter, just like turning on the heat and opening a window. During the summer, they will allow for air to escape as well. You didn't mention how warm it was when you used it... but again, most finished attics to have some sort of ventilation (they used to be windows...) If no one is using the attic, keep the door shut and make sure there is weatherstripping on the door to keep as much hot/cool air from escaping. If you intend to use the attic, and keep it open to the floors below, the vents (at minimum) need to be covered and sealed, or you will be heating the outdoors during the winter. Lastly, I would have someone check to make sure the roof/kinda-sorta finishing was done properly. If it is not, air leakage is the least of your concerns. Ice dams (wrecking the roof, causing leaks) is a much greater concern for improperly vented/insulated attics (especially in Chicago). Another question--the attic does have three windows. When they are closed they are REALLY leaky. In the summer we do open two of them and put a fan in one of them. The third stays closed because it's quite dangerous (floor level with only a stapled-in screen). Also, the area behind the chimney is open--there is no little fake wall there, so there is a little spot behind the chimney where you can actually see/touch the underside of the roof. Is that enough air exchange to alleviate mold concerns (if we seal the attic vents shut)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyeska Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Our old house had only 1 puny vent for the attic space. It caused all sorts of moisture problems in our home. I put a dehumidifier in the attic and was pulling out over a gallon of water a day! Needless to say, we put in a larger vent and attic fan, which solved the problem. Because we have dealt with moisture problems due to lack of ventilation, proper ventilation was the first thing we looked for when purchasing the house we are in now. Just from what we have learned, I would't recommend covering the vents. And I would also pull out all the extra stuff (walls and closet I think you said...) and turn it back into the attic it was meant to be. If you don't want to do that, then you should speak with a general contractor and get an estimate on converting it (the proper way) into a usable space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Another question--the attic does have three windows. When they are closed they are REALLY leaky. In the summer we do open two of them and put a fan in one of them. The third stays closed because it's quite dangerous (floor level with only a stapled-in screen). Also, the area behind the chimney is open--there is no little fake wall there, so there is a little spot behind the chimney where you can actually see/touch the underside of the roof. Is that enough air exchange to alleviate mold concerns (if we seal the attic vents shut)? No, you don't need to have the new roof inspected. It had more to do with the finishing aspects... making sure there was proper ventilation/insulation to prevent other problems (usually occurring behind the knee-walls of the attic space. Next to basements, attics are the most cost-effective to convert into living space. That your attic has 3 windows is indicative of the good probability that when it was built, it was built with this in mind. The windows (open during the warm summer months, with the window a/c) should provide more than enough ventilation, making the new vents unneccessary (even if it were being used for storage space... you could open the windows). Being an energy-efficiency monger, though, I would argue for proper insulation and replacing the windows ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Another question--the attic does have three windows. When they are closed they are REALLY leaky. In the summer we do open two of them and put a fan in one of them. The third stays closed because it's quite dangerous (floor level with only a stapled-in screen). Also, the area behind the chimney is open--there is no little fake wall there, so there is a little spot behind the chimney where you can actually see/touch the underside of the roof. Is that enough air exchange to alleviate mold concerns (if we seal the attic vents shut)? In that case, I would cover the vents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 No, you don't need to have the new roof inspected. It had more to do with the finishing aspects... making sure there was proper ventilation/insulation to prevent other problems (usually occurring behind the knee-walls of the attic space. Next to basements, attics are the most cost-effective to convert into living space. That your attic has 3 windows is indicative of the good probability that when it was built, it was built with this in mind. The windows (open during the warm summer months, with the window a/c) should provide more than enough ventilation, making the new vents unneccessary (even if it were being used for storage space... you could open the windows). Being an energy-efficiency monger, though, I would argue for proper insulation and replacing the windows ;) Thanks for your help--I really appreciate it. Yes, I would prefer to do it properly, but in a house this old and this neglected we have to take this one project at a time. We just did the roof, which involved tearing off FIVE layers plus a chimney rebuild, stucco guy, and a contractor to repair water damage in the dining room. That's as much $$$ and energy as we've got to pour into the house right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks for your help--I really appreciate it. Yes, I would prefer to do it properly, but in a house this old and this neglected we have to take this one project at a time. We just did the roof, which involved tearing off FIVE layers plus a chimney rebuild, stucco guy, and a contractor to repair water damage in the dining room. That's as much $$$ and energy as we've got to pour into the house right now. :eek: Five layers on a Victorian roof? I can't even imagine digging into that! (Roofers are special, special people!) In humidity central - Chesapeake Bay area - I worry not at all about moisture. Our house was built in the 1860-1870 range. Those Victorians knew how to ventilate a house. And 100+ year old houses are just not air tight; they exchange plenty of air and do not have the same issues as newer construction. Now, if someone could clue me in as to where they put their furniture that took the place of closets with all these windows and doors, that would be nifty. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 :eek: Five layers on a Victorian roof? I can't even imagine digging into that! (Roofers are special, special people!) In humidity central - Chesapeake Bay area - I worry not at all about moisture. Our house was built in the 1860-1870 range. Those Victorians knew how to ventilate a house. And 100+ year old houses are just not air tight; they exchange plenty of air and do not have the same issues as newer construction. Now, if someone could clue me in as to where they put their furniture that took the place of closets with all these windows and doors, that would be nifty. :D Yes, five layers. My roofer has extensive experience in our area with historic homes but had never seen so many layers on a house. He said with that amount of weight he was astonished that it had not collapsed. It's not the first time we've been told someone is astonished that our house is still standing. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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