the4Rs Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 So our family is praying about adoption and seeing where God would lead us. We feel led to Africa specifically. We thought perhaps it would be Sierra Leone, but that is not looking like it will happen for a LONG time if ever, mainly because of our US embassy. :glare: Anyway, so we are looking at Ghana or Uganda. In both countries, I've found reputable information in how to do an independent adoption within the country with lists of qualified and ethical lawyers. Yet I know someone who is in the midst of an independent adoption in another country and said if she could do it over she'd go with an agency. Here is my waffling: I know that agencies provide guidance and help with logistics and kind of give you a peace of mind so to speak that they are handling things on your behalf and assisting you every step of the way, yet I have a hard time paying the agency fees when I found out that a vast majority of adoption agencies which are non-profit status, have CEO's who are making at least six digit salaries each year, some even in the millions. :001_huh:I have a hard time justifying them making SO much money on the backs of families who are broken, kids who are fatherless. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not looking for an argument. Just wondering for those who've done international adoption...did you do an independent adoption or did you go through an agency? If you could do over, what would you do? Anything you could tell me would be beneficial. Thanks. :D (If you want to see the website I got my info it is two years old, but I'd assume with the explosion of adoption in recent years these CEOs are making the same or more. http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/38035 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Is there a cost difference? Do you know anyone who has done an Independent adoption? I would love more info. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the4Rs Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 I've found several people online who have done independent adoptions. Mostly in Uganda. We were going to do an independent adoption in Sierra Leone (which would have been considerably cheaper- think less than the adoption tax credit when it was all said and done). I think some of it depends on stay in country and all that as to how much you actually save. Esp because you have hotel/guest house, food, transportation, lawyer fees, etc. But if you don't have agency fees then I'd assume it is cheaper. I can give you the websites I came across... they appear to be reputable. Some are blogs from families who did the independent adoption route. Again these are in Uganda. I have been somewhat connected with a family who has done this in Ghana, but the resources are a bit more limited to sift through. Still it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnL Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 We did domestic independent adoption. We started out with an agency, but the agency wasn't very proactive and we wound up going independent with our first. With our second and third, we were knowledgeable and experienced enough to go completely independent. With international adoption, though, I'd be hesitant to go independent unless I knew exactly what I was doing. Most things in adoptions of every sort are not guaranteed until it's complete. Internationally, it's too easy to send money to someone disreputable who just takes the money and runs. If you know families that have done independent and that's the route you prefer, I would listen to everything the families have done and try to go with the same people they used. There are books that can be really informative about adoption, too, (as I'm sure you already know) but nothing beats real life experience from real life people who straight up tell you what works and what doesn't. I have made wonderful online friends that have given me great advice. But see if you can find someone locally who has been there, done that. I would consider looking for a local support group for families who have adopted from the country or countries you are looking to adopt from. It's possible that some of the families completed their international adoptions independently and perhaps they would share their experiences with you. Good luck! And don't stop praying about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the4Rs Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 http://adoptinginuganda.blogspot.com/ - great resource. She details EVERY little thing she did from what to wear to court, to how long stays can be do what you do in front of the judge to how to get paperwork organized...etc. Her info is from their adoption a few years ago, I believe, but I think it is still VERY beneficial. http://www.myuglycouch.com/adopting-from-uganda/ - this is an adoptive mama who just brought their sons home from Uganda this year. She gives a basic rundown of what to do. http://independentadoptioninuganda.wordpress.com/ - this is a compilation from several families with a lot of information about independent adoptions. Lots of good stuff in here. :) http://www.goodtobecrazy.com/p/adoption.html - another blogging mama who gives some good info about independent adoptions http://forums.adoption.com/africa-general-support/387052-independent-uganda-adoption.html - this is more cautionary....just so you know the good bad and ugly of independent adoptions. http://www.familyhopelove.com/?p=135 - this has good info about costs of independent adoptions, etc. Very thought out and full of good info These are some I've come across in my searches recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the4Rs Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 DawnL - Thanks for your insight. :) May I ask how you did an independent domestic adoption? So glad it worked out well for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 AGENCY--no question hands down. We spent 2 months in Vietnam waiting for approval to bring home our daughter. MANY other families were not so fortunate. It is also crucial that you do adequate research in choosing an agency. I get your discomfort, but the solution is choosing an ethical agency--not doing it without one. The yahoo group Adoption Agency Research is a good place to start. Also Ethica: http://www.ethicanet.org/adoption/countries/ghana http://www.ethicanet.org/chooseprovider I cannot imagine any circumstances in which I think it would be wise to pursue an independent adoption. Good luck on your journey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in C-ville Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I have friends who just got home from Uganda with two girls, but also adopted from Ethiopia two years ago. Obviously they're pretty busy, but here's Sara's blog: http://everybitterthingissweet.com/. I'm sure you can glean some good information from her. FWIW, we adopted from Ukraine and in that country you can only adopt independently. It was a long and arduous process, but God brought Ukraine and ultimately Katya to us. We didn't have the opportunity to consider independent/agency due to our situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 This is an excellent paper worth reading on the topic: http://www.pear-now.org/IndependentAdoptionUnderHague.pdf (don't know if it applies to Ghana and Uganda) This is also a great guide to researching agencies: http://www.pear-now.org/docs/PEAR-Guide-to-Researching-US-Adoption-Agencies.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-2-7 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Our international adoption (Philippines) was our first adoption. We had NO CLUE what we were doing. We went with an agency that held our hand the entire way through. Each country has its own hoops to jump through. There are so many corrupt folks out there who can spot a gullible person a mile away. Because adoption is such an emotional thing its too easy to get attached and end up paying much more than you should b/c you have fallen in love with the child in a picture. For us, the agency became the buffer for our emotions. If we were to do it again, I would still use an agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarymelon Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I have no experience with independent adoptions, but we used Adoption Advocates International, which has new programs in Ghana and Uganda. They were great, and I cannot imagine trying to do the work independently. Even with our agency adoption, the paperwork was head spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaMa2005 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hands down I would use an agency. We have adopted from China and have close friends who have adopted from Vietnam and Ethiopia. Things would have been disastrous if they had been done independently (China must be done through an agency as well as Vietnam, though Vietnam is now closed). One set of friends just returned home from Ethiopia with their second daughter. While they took some matters into their own hands, without their agency, things would never have gotten done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I would not attempt an international adoption independently. No way, no how. There are just too, too many things that can go wrong. The last thing you want is to be given fraudulent papers or something to that effect. Yes, some of the CEOs make big bucks, even in nonprofit agencies. A domestic adoption independently would be doable. If you knew someone thatt was wanting to place their child in your home, you would just need an attorney and a homestudy. But even then you really need to know what you are doing and what has to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the4Rs Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Deacongirl- Thank you for the excellent links. Gave me much to read over. So another question to those who say no way no how would you do an independent international adoption... What if you knew from quite a few people of a lawyer who was very ethical and reasonable to hire for legal representation within country? And what if you were able to go and find your children yourself? Still say no? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Deacongirl- Thank you for the excellent links. Gave me much to read over. So another question to those who say no way no how would you do an independent international adoption... What if you knew from quite a few people of a lawyer who was very ethical and reasonable to hire for legal representation within country? And what if you were able to go and find your children yourself? Still say no? Just curious. I would be extremely hesitant to do an independent international adoption under almost any circumstances. I saw too many attempts at independent adoptions in this country fall through when I worked at an orphanage here. People who went through agencies later were far more successful. My biggest reason for hiring an agency would be to have someone with experience helping me through every step and smoothing things out. Certainly a good attorney would be helpful, but there is so much more to an international adoption than just having a good attorney. The only way I would consider adopting independently from this country in the future (it's not allowed right now) is for me to spend a great deal of time at the orphanages, to make sure I had an experienced attorney and knew other people in the government/community who were willing and able to assist me, and to plan on living here for a while. And to be very ready to face the reality that it might not happen. (I wish that adoptive families could somehow spend significantly more time in the country their child is adopted from. That's one of my concerns about international adoption- there really isn't a good way to accomplish that for most families.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 We have done it both ways and I would highly recommend an agency. If it is a good one it is worth the money. I had no idea just how much until I tried independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Deacongirl- Thank you for the excellent links. Gave me much to read over. So another question to those who say no way no how would you do an independent international adoption... What if you knew from quite a few people of a lawyer who was very ethical and reasonable to hire for legal representation within country? And what if you were able to go and find your children yourself? Still say no? Just curious. I would say--how do you know the lawyer is ethical? And I wouldn't simply take the word of APs who used him/her. APs sometimes have a very vested interest in believing that their adoptions were ethical. I would just worry that there is not as much oversight as there would be with an ethical agency. And...finding your children yourself? What exactly does that look like? It seems that could potentially result in some very questionable situations. (i.e. a facilitator going and recruiting children who matched your request. Even being open to older children or children with SN would not eliminate this possibility--and yes of course this can happen with an agency also) And--also to me I think there is a greater risk that you would be taking the chance the child would not fit the U.S. govt.'s definition of an orphan. If you are prepared to live out of the country for 2 years after the adoption is completed until you could get a U.S. visa, then sure. I would prob. contact the U.S. Embassy person in charge of approving adoptions in Ghana and Uganda and ask their opinion. They may not tell you anything, but on the other hand it would be helpful to know if they are more suspect of independent adoptions. Good luck with your decision--I know it is overwhelming. And way way more complicated than I could have ever imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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