Word-finding difficulty

[mo2]

My 9yo has serious trouble with word retrieval. It can take her forever to ask a simple question because she'll "forget" what she wanted to say. She says a lot of things like, "Remember that one thing?" or "uh....um...oh, you know..." It is very frustrating for her (and the person listening to her!). Is there any way to help with this?

[onaclairadeluna]

My 9yo has serious trouble with word retrieval. It can take her forever to ask a simple question because she'll "forget" what she wanted to say. She says a lot of things like, "Remember that one thing?" or "uh....um...oh, you know..." It is very frustrating for her (and the person listening to her!). Is there any way to help with this?

 

I just asked this very question over on the dyslexia thread. I am eager to hear word retrieval suggestions. I can give you one thing that we do in that situation where she is trying to find a word and unable to access it.

 

DS "I want to say that the uh, you know, the thing...."

Me "Food processor?"

 

DS laughing "no"

 

Me "radiator?"

 

DS "no"

 

Me "empire state building?"

 

etc. until he finds the word.

 

I think I got this idea from the Eides in the "Mislabled Child" book. It does two things. It lightens the mood (I always start with food processor which my son finds completely ridiculous) and it helps jump start his brain to actually find the word.

 

I am eager to hear other suggestions for word finding difficulties since this is something DS continues to struggle with.

[merry gardens]

My 9yo has serious trouble with word retrieval. It can take her forever to ask a simple question because she'll "forget" what she wanted to say. She says a lot of things like, "Remember that one thing?" or "uh....um...oh, you know..." It is very frustrating for her (and the person listening to her!). Is there any way to help with this?

There's a book called "It's on the Tip of My Tongue" :tongue_smilie: by Diane J. German that goes into various forms of word finding problems.

[merry gardens]

I just asked this very question over on the dyslexia thread. I am eager to hear word retrieval suggestions. I can give you one thing that we do in that situation where she is trying to find a word and unable to access it.

 

DS "I want to say that the uh, you know, the thing...."

Me "Food processor?"

 

DS laughing "no"

 

Me "radiator?"

 

DS "no"

 

Me "empire state building?"

 

etc. until he finds the word.

 

I think I got this idea from the Eides in the "Mislabled Child" book. It does two things. It lightens the mood (I always start with food processor which my son finds completely ridiculous) ...

:lol::lol:

[PeterPan]

Well I can tell you the bit I've learned so far. Our SLP who does PROMPT for my ds's apraxia (praxis, motor control) brings in ANOTHER SLP who specializes in expressive language when the kids need that. There are also apps for your ipod/ipad thing.

 

I think there are also confounding issues you have to sort out, ie. whether it's a lexicon issue (where the brain stored the word and whether it got in the file folder for auto parts or something totally different) vs. working memory vs. processing speed. So like Merry is saying, I think you need to find out exactly what is going on so you can determine what to do about it.

 

Our SLP has said not everyone with the praxis will turn out to have the lexicon problems, but some will. But just when you're talking about the "Huh" and talking a LONG time to get there thing or losing what they wanted to say, that can actually be working memory and processing speed. But I will say, not being an expert here, that Luna's sounds like lexicon issues. Certainly that's beyond what my dd does.

 

Now I will tell you, I've got my dd doing some Word Benders, and she finds them quite challenging. So with her I think it's working memory, processing speed, and just the way dyslexics process language. They're not really of the lexicon issues like I've read can happen with praxis. I'm not sure she anticipates my ds will have them. The apps I downloaded were from the ABA section, and I have a picture dictionary of a similar set-up, where you'll have words grouped by context (all the foods, all the parts of a circus, etc.). I think the idea is that by working on words that go together, you improve how they file in the brain.

 

But that's as far as I know.

Edited August 22, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[onaclairadeluna]

But I will say, not being an expert here, that Luna's sounds like lexicon issues.

 

I think so too.

 

Thanks for that information. That was incredibly helpful.

[onaclairadeluna]

There's a book called "It's on the Tip of My Tongue" :tongue_smilie: by Diane J. German that goes into various forms of word finding problems.

 

This looks interesting, thanks.

[peacefully]

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[onemom22boys]

I've described what our SLP does for working memory and processing speed so many times

 

Would you be an angel and describe it one more time? I missed the last dozen or so times you did it. :Angel_anim:

 

Thanks!

Gina

[ElizabethAnne]

Would you be an angel and describe it one more time? I missed the last dozen or so times you did it. :Angel_anim:

 

Thanks!

Gina

 

Me too! I would love to hear how your therapist handles this. I have a son with the same issues with word recall, processing speed, and working memory. Thanks!

[Mom0012]

In my ds's case, he has issues with all three. :tongue_smilie:

 

I've described what our SLP does for working memory and processing speed so many times, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing it. :001_rolleyes: For the lexical issues, we are now doing a variety of "verbal reasoning" and naming exercises. One example is to name as many examples of a given category within a minute time-frame. When ds started therapy, he could name three or four zoo animals in a minute, despite having a very broad knowledge of a variety of common and obscure animals. It was really weird. Now, I think he tends to name about 20 examples of a given category, depending on the category. I don't know what is considered age-level norms for a 6-7 yo, but the improvement is huge—not just in the exercise. There is a clear crossover into his everyday language use.

 

Other exercises are things like name two things that are heavy and two things that are not. The category changes, and he needs to practice a variety of categories.

 

We've done an excluding by subclass exercise: name three things you can eat that are not fruits; name three wild animals that are not zebras; etc. There is something about adding that final criteria that adds to the language processing load of this exercise, but I've forgotten what our SLP's explanation was.

 

We also have started to sequence items by attribute: name a series in order from lightest to heaviest or heaviest to lightest (marshmallow, brownie, banana split; hammer, shovel, nail).

 

I'm just throwing around some examples of what we've done that seem to help ds, but they've been done along with significant work to address working memory and processing speed. At least in ds's case, we didn't work on anomia as a discrete issue, but part of a system of disorders, if that makes any sense.

 

I'd love to hear how you are addressing workin memory and processing speed issues as well as any other language therapy techniques that you use.

 

lisa

[PeterPan]

Yllek, can I say once again your SLP is AMAZING and that I'm so glad you're here telling us about it? :)

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'm gonna throw out something here. This is a post Yllek made back in June. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284215&page=3 It took me till now to get that book "What's Eating Your Child" she mentions and get ready to read it. I'm wondering if the protocol described there would actually help more people's kids in this thread... It's only on my mind because my ds had quite a bit of soy today (tofu at lunch and soy milk a couple times), and his speech his THROUGH THE ROOF this evening. I had noticed for quite a while that it would increase with eggs and some soy milk, but I had been afraid to do too much soy because of the hormonal effects. However now I'm thinking I need to break down and do the choline. Not sure why I hadn't tried it, except you get too many things going.

[onaclairadeluna]

and his speech his THROUGH THE ROOF this evening.

 

Yay! That's great news.

 

I had not considered the food connection before (for speech issues). However DS is gluten and lactose free because gluten makes him moody and lactose makes his allergies worse.

[PeterPan]

No, no! I'm not talking about avoiding foods. I'm talking about using foods (or supplements) to get the neurotransmitters and precursors. Sorry, my ds had been pecking earlier and I was going fast. Soy and eggs are high in choline. Look at Yllek's posts on it.

[peacefully]

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Edited November 20, 2012 by yllek
typo

[EKS]

We once borrowed some books from my son's speech therapist that dealt with this. I actually saw improvement in my son's writing after using them.

[merry gardens]

.... I'll mention again that our SLP has spent quite a bit of her career working with neurology patients in hospitals (brain injury and stroke victims), and she's incorporating some of the models of speech therapy from this aspect of practice into what she does with children with communication disorders.

 

Hope this is making some sense. I'm really fried with lack of sleep... :tongue_smilie:

It seems like more slp and ot work with stroke and brain injuries in the elderly rather than pediatrics. Sometimes reading about memory problems I start thinking of what might be ahead for me. That book I mentioned earlier addresses word finding struggles I already have-- like calling ds by his brother's name. (They hate it when I do that!). When I think about word finding difficulty, I find it more in my speech. It could be lack of sleep and other factors, but it will probably get worse as I age. If it keeps up, one day when I'm an old lady, my children are going to show up with some of the same special education materials and games I make them do with me right now.

[rafiki]

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[rafiki]

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[PeterPan]

Low executive functioning causes this too.

 

Working memory is part of executive function.

[PeterPan]

BTW, this may or may not interest anyone, but I was reading that book Yllek had recommended (What's Eating Your Child), and while it's a bit peppy and cheerleadery, it did have a possible explanation for why my ds reacts to the fish oil. Apparently he could be low in taurine, which helps the body process fats. So that's the next thing I'm checking out.

 

As far as the choline, I'm surprised y'all aren't more interested in this. Yllek has told in previous posts the specific product her ds is on. I've been giving him foods that are high in it. Either way it gives DRAMATIC changes in speech.

[Mom0012]

BTW, this may or may not interest anyone, but I was reading that book Yllek had recommended (What's Eating Your Child), and while it's a bit peppy and cheerleadery, it did have a possible explanation for why my ds reacts to the fish oil. Apparently he could be low in taurine, which helps the body process fats. So that's the next thing I'm checking out.

 

As far as the choline, I'm surprised y'all aren't more interested in this. Yllek has told in previous posts the specific product her ds is on. I've been giving him foods that are high in it. Either way it gives DRAMATIC changes in speech.

 

Thanks for bringing this up again, Elizabeth. I guess I should be interested, but I've been at this long enough with my son though that I've stopped looking for miracles (even though we did have one or two early on). What types of improvements have you seen in your son's speech with the choline?

 

Yllek, what's the name of the product, if you don't mind sharing that again?

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

I wonder how many here are dealing with food allergies. We have quite an assortment.

 

My oldest is anaphylactic to egg, has reflux and oral allergy syndrome.

 

My middler gets hives from peanuts and a stomach ache from even trace amounts of soy protein.

 

My youngest is anaphylactic to dairy.

 

In addition to the above they each have misc. reactions to legumes, peas, fruits, and veggies.

 

Yes, my son is severely allergic to peanuts, tree nuts, fish and shellfish at this point. He had a severe allergy to eggs and wheat when he was younger. He cannot have gluten and we've only been reintroducing dairy for the first time since he was 3 in the last 6 months.

 

Lisa

[PeterPan]

Lisa, just research choline as part of the neurotransmitter process and decide for yourself. It's not an amino acid, so you don't have that issue of it throwing other things off. Eggs and soy are high in choline, so it's easy to test for yourself whether upping the levels make any difference in his speech. With 2 eggs a day over a period of a week (this was months ago), I got modest enough change that I *suspected* it was making a difference. At that point it was a moderate change, amounts that only *I* would notice because I was with him all day and have subjective opinions about where he's at, how much he normally talks, and what is an increase in the number of words in his sentences, etc.

 

So on two eggs a day the results were good enough that I thought I was onto something. Yesterday he had 2 eggs AND soy milk on cereal AND tofu at lunch, and his speech EXPLODED.

 

Now he also gets surges in speech with the flax oil, but never as much as this. And he has not to this point tolerated fish oil. (It made him smell fishy and act fussy every time we tried, so we gave up.) I may retry the fish oil later with taurine.

 

I'm much more inclined to try things in FOOD than to give them as a supplement, since when given in a food you get it in a more balanced, safe way, with all the enzymes and co-factors it was meant to come with. But really, I'm not sure how much soy I want to give my ds. I had been told by a nutritionist NOT to, which is why I had changed him to coconut milk even though we did have some early success with soy milk. So to keep him at the amount of soy he had yesterday would be excessive given the potential hormonal effect on him, kwim? So if that's the case, we need to look into a supplement.

 

Praxis (dyspraxia, apraxia) is motor control, and that is directly affected by neurotransmitter function. So EVERYONE pretty much everywhere is saying to get these kids on good fats and things to help the neurotransmitters work. It's just a questions of which ones, what sources, etc. The commercial choline (PC) supplements are from soy oil, which apparently can have trace amounts of the protein to cause reactions in some sensitive kids. You would just have to research that for yourself. That's why I'm saying I start with food, cuz then I know what's in it.

[onaclairadeluna]

No, no! I'm not talking about avoiding foods. I'm talking about using foods (or supplements) to get the neurotransmitters and precursors. Sorry, my ds had been pecking earlier and I was going fast. Soy and eggs are high in choline. Look at Yllek's posts on it.

 

Sorry it was late. I understood what you meant. I am not quite sure what I meant. :confused::confused:I think just that it doesn't surprise me that there might be a dietary connection though I hadn't thought about it before.

[rafiki]

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[peacefully]

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