AAS or SWR

[mommy247]

I need a little bit of explaining, perhaps from some AAS users. I have a beginning reader (5 years old) who is just beginning to blend sounds together. I also have a 7 year old who is reading but not spelling. Likewise, I have two readers/spellers (not strong spellers) ages 9 and 11. We need a phonics/spelling program.

 

My first question: Can All About Spelling be used to teach reading to a 5 year old? The older children learned to read using SWR at a private school and I am torn between selecting either AAS or SWR to accomodate all of the varied levels. I am also thinking maybe SWR with the little ones and AAS for the older ones. That sounds hard......

 

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Renee

[teamturner]

I started AAS w/3 students this year. The 8 year olds were already reading and the 7 dd was as well. You may see a recent thread if you do a search for AAS that discussed using it for teaching reading. I think the general conscensus was to use AAS when the child was reading fairly well. I think you should just concentrate on teaching reading to the 5 yo for now and use AAS for all the older ones you wish to have formal spelling lessons. Perhaps you could just do spelling a few times a week for the 7 yo and every day with the olders. AAS is so simple to use and only takes 15-20 (sometimes only 10) minutes a day. It will reinforce phonics related reading skills as well. My 7yo dd didn't learn as much phonics as I would have liked due to the fact that she started memorizing words before we finished the phonics book (I used Phonics Pathways with all of my kids). AAS is helping her look at all the letters left to right and really decode. I can't speak about SWR as I haven't used it but AAS is really an open and go book with virtually no pre-lesson prep time. Except for the huge amount of time spent in the beginning cutting up the index cards and letter tiles!! ;)

[teamturner]

sorry to hit post twice. My computer is doing something strange!

[Parrothead]

I have to agree with Michelle. I won't use AAS to teach reading.

[PeterPan]

Renee, do you know anything about what they were doing with SWR at each grade level in the school, how much they had the kids writing, etc.? Are you pleased with the progress they were making? Did they teach SWR all the way through or use just the phonograms in K5 to teach them to read by sounding out and then go back later and start it as a regular spelling program in a later grade? See SWR is MEANT to be used all the way from the beginning, on up. They spell their way into reading, hence the title, and they continue spelling until they complete the Wise Guide and test out twice.

 

The teacher should be doing the diagnostic tests for SWR and be able to tell you how each of your kids are scoring, both their mastery and overall scores. You should find that out from her, just to see what you're looking at as far as placement, whether some of your kids could group together, etc. Depending on what those scores turn out to be, it might be your older kids are way beyond AAS. Most kids who do SWR test well above grade level, even just average spellers like my dd. If they aren't testing well, makes me think either there was a mismatch in the curriculum and the student or the school didn't have them writing enough and doing enough other things to make it stick (inexperienced). Just tossing some things out to consider.

[jail warden]

I don't know much about AAS, but I've used SWR to teach both spelling and reading to both of my older two children. It's not that hard of a program after you get over the learning curve. And now they have a DVD out to help with the initial learning and doesn't seem very hard at all. The book looks overwhelming at first, but really it's not that bad at all. The hardest part, is that it is teacher intensive. However, it has helped my spelling so tremendously that I'm pretty sold on it!

[siloam]

I need a little bit of explaining, perhaps from some AAS users. I have a beginning reader (5 years old) who is just beginning to blend sounds together. I also have a 7 year old who is reading but not spelling. Likewise, I have two readers/spellers (not strong spellers) ages 9 and 11. We need a phonics/spelling program.

 

My first question: Can All About Spelling be used to teach reading to a 5 year old? The older children learned to read using SWR at a private school and I am torn between selecting either AAS or SWR to accomodate all of the varied levels. I am also thinking maybe SWR with the little ones and AAS for the older ones. That sounds hard......

 

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Renee

 

Renee,

 

From what I have been told AAS can be used to teach reading, though I am told it goes really slowly. You have go go through I think two years before all the phonograms are introduced.

 

I love SWR and use it to reinforce learning to read, so we don't have to use sight words, but I don't use it as a learning to read program. I think word family programs give more practice and reward.

 

Right now my 6yo is doing Explode the Code with SL LA 1 to learn to read and for spelling she is covering the 70 phonograms and doing SWR lists.

 

My 5yo isn't up for reading quite yet, but he still covers the first 26 phonograms daily and is doing the Pre-ETC (Get Ready, Set, Go for the Code) books.

 

Heather

 

[Ellie]

From what I have been told AAS can be used to teach reading, though I am told it goes really slowly. You have go go through I think two years before all the phonograms are introduced.

 

Two years to teach all the phonograms? Huh. Wonder why it takes two years to learn them when Spalding and SWR teach them all in one?

[ELaurie]

has been shaped by my experience with ds 8, who struggled as he was learning to read and to write. I tried using SWR with him, and it was very frustrating for him.

 

I later followed JW's wise ;) advice, and taught reading, writing and spelling as sequential skills. In our case, this worked much better for him.

 

Ds 6, OTOH, is learning to read, write and spell with ease, For him, an integrated program like SWR would have probably been just fine, although having used both, I much prefer AAS because it is very easy to use, imo, when compared with SWR.

[siloam]

Two years to teach all the phonograms? Huh. Wonder why it takes two years to learn them when Spalding and SWR teach them all in one?

 

That was her guess, she only has the first level. But I have heard other people comment on how slow it is.

 

Heather

 

[siloam]

has been shaped by my experience with ds 8, who struggled as he was learning to read and to write. I tried using SWR with him, and it was very frustrating for him.

 

I later followed JW's wise ;) advice, and taught reading, writing and spelling as sequential skills. In our case, this worked much better for him.

 

Ds 6, OTOH, is learning to read, write and spell with ease, For him, an integrated program like SWR would have probably been just fine, although having used both, I much prefer AAS because it is very easy to use, imo, when compared with SWR.

 

I have had both as well. My oldest practically ran through her reading material, and has been jumping reading levels ever since. My 2nd dd was much more tentative. She wouldn't guess at the sounds unless she knew them cold. I got SWR and we started drilling the 70 phonograms, and it clicked. I didn't add spelling till later, which is where I am at with my 6yo. She can read at a 2nd grade level, and she has been covering the first 26 phonograms for over a year. I probably won't actually have her do SWR spelling till fall and by then she should be well grounded in the phonograms and reading.

 

Oh and I don't use SWR the "right" way, so it isn't very hard here. My friend who just bought it is doing it instead of SWR, for the same reason.

 

Heather

[mommy247]

OhElizabeth

Hive Mind Royal Larvae

 

 

Thanks again for your response. Really, the private school only did SWR in Kindergarten and First grade. They switched to a different Spelling program in 2nd grade and then went back to SWR in 3rd. We left in 4th grade and they began using Spelling Power. They have improved with their Spelling, but have not been doing ENOUGH writing as you have suggested. This is top on my list for next year: WRITING! and I want to ensure a good spelling program from the older kids and phonics for the younger ones. I do not have access to see where they would test in SWR. We have a training seminar coming here to Fort Worth, TX in August. I am leaning towards SWR right now for all 4 children. It just seems to be the right fit for all the varied levels.

 

Where do I go from here? Do really all I need is the core kit? Will the first thing I do is placement testing? etc.....

 

Renee

[PeterPan]

Ooo, if you have a training seminar coming up, that will make your start all the easier! You don't have to go to one, but people who go seem to be glad they did. I think, since you're looking at a seminar, you'd do well to contact the trainer hosting/teaching it and buy your materials from her. That way you've invested in her and can get the follow-up and support from her. I've bought my stuff from Britta at http://www.morningstarlearning.com and have appreciated the times she's answered questions for me. But I'd buy from whomever will be doing the training, assuming they're selling the stuff.

 

Yes, the core kit has all the basics. Because you have a big spread of ages, you might find it convenient to buy the Chart Masters and then just have each dc use paper in a notebook, saves $$. I really like the PLL (wide-ruled log) for K5 and 1st, as it's adorable. After that, I'd just use the Chart Masters and your own paper, personal opinion. I'd get the AlphaList because your olders will use it quite a bit.

 

The diagnostic tests for placement are in the SWR manual, so once you get SWR you can do that. It then has charts for interpretation and placement. If you post the results on the SWR yahoo group, they can help you decide how to interpret them, how you might group your kids, etc.

 

That's a shame your school's usage was so erratic. Oh well, water under the bridge! I'd definitely recommend to you a couple extra things, since it's the year of spelling in your house, sounds like. Look at the Calvert spelling cd's for the computer. They're fun, will improving typing, and are just another way to keep them thinking about spelling. I'm of the multi-pronged approach, figuring it's better to do more than to put all our spelling eggs in one basket. The calvert cd's are real winners, very fun, at least for my dd. If you test out of the words, it gives you activities with harder ones, so don't be afraid to just buy a level and start in. 2nd, I'd do dictation daily with them, all of them. You could dictate sentences from the Wise Guide, literature (your current read aloud), Spelling Plus, anything you want. The older the dc, the more I'd do. When my dd had a hump to get over with her spelling, we did some SERIOUS dictation, like 3/4 to 1 page a day. It was work, but so much practice really helped build her confidence and get her over that hump. I think part of the reason we've had to bring in other things with SWR is because SWR is so auditory. My dd is very dominantly visual and seems to need context for things to make sense. When words are in the context of a sentence, she seems to remember them better, hence the dictation. And the visual, well that's the computer exercises and just seeing those common words over and over and over through dictation. Dictation of random sentences won't necessarily move their actual grade level of spelling forward very quickly, like working through a progressive, grade-leveled list would, but it WILL practice those previous and current words enough to make them more confident and fast at their current level.

[mommy247]

THANKS AGAIN and AGAIN!

 

I have not looked at Spelling Plus, but I will take that advice and check into it. I was planning on using Spelling Wisdom for dictation. Can you compare the two?

 

Also, do I recall that you use IEW? I have been trying to decide between Classical Writing or IEW. I seem to be leaning more towards IEW for the majority of my kids and also waiting to see WWE for the younger ones. What are your thoughts on writing programs?

 

JUST FYI: We will be doing Year 2 of TOG and I would love to be able to combine Writing Aids with a writing program that provides a little bit more hand holding as we write across the curriculum.

 

Your insights are greatly appreciated.

 

Renee

[PeterPan]

Oh, I don't think it really matters what you use for the dictation. Let your own taste prevail. The Spelling Wisdom selections look tedious to me, but that's just my opinion. I like the Spelling Plus sentences because they spiral and are highly efficient. (little nuggets of sentences that get your review/practice in with no fluff) Literature dictation is good. If you're going through a sequential program like SWR as your spine, then your dictation can be anything you want. Again, I would suggest looking at the sentences in Spelling Plus to see what you think. When you're remediating and trying to build confidence quickly, sometimes a no-frills, practice it till they get it, get those skills up quickly, approach can be really good, kwim?

 

 

Opinions on writing? Sure, I have some, lol. I prefer Writing Tales to CW. I like IEW. I'd chose by whichever (WT or IEW) seems more practical to you or you think will better fit the personality of your dc. I would expect some struggles at the beginning of the year, because lack of spelling confidence turns into lack of writing confidence. I suggest you keep the AlphaList handy so they can quickly look up words (remember it's a spelling dictionary, just a list of words, making it fast to look them up) and be available to answer spelling questions as they write. ENCOURAGE them to ask you how to spell words, so they are writing correctly. Put a bowl of m&m's on your desk and reward them every time they ask. Make it a positive thing, not a stigma. Don't just let them write sloppy drafts and not care. Lavish praise in the editing stage as they improve their spelling.

 

Now as far as which level, seems to me, not having used it, your oldest two would go into SWI A of IEW quite nicely and your dc 7 could tag along as he wants. Personally, I'd just have him write a weekly narration and be done with it. If you think your dc would prefer WT, then I would put them in WT2. By the end of the year it will have covered paragraphing and all the sentences openers of IEW, making it just as serious and competitive. Thing is, WT2 has longer models than IEW, uses fiction, and encourages creative additions. Do whichever seems to fit your kids better.

 

As far as the Writing Aids for TOG, I haven't used them, am not saying anything bad about them, like the idea in general. My one thought would be that you can only focus on so much in one year, kwim? Like if you have your kids doing serious quantities of dictation daily, writing SWR spelling words daily, doing an SWR enrichment daily... See the list growing? At some point you're going to max out their comfort. If your focus for the year is spelling, I'd limit the original writing (business letters, whatnot) and just stick to your goal doing writing that focuses on the goal: improving spelling. The next year, when the dc are over their hump, THEN you phase out some of the spelling-focused writing and bring in the WA type writing. Think of it as something to go to after WT2 if you want. At that point they'll have the skills to do it comfortably. That's my suggestion.

[siloam]

As far as the Writing Aids for TOG, I haven't used them, am not saying anything bad about them, like the idea in general. My one thought would be that you can only focus on so much in one year, kwim? Like if you have your kids doing serious quantities of dictation daily, writing SWR spelling words daily, doing an SWR enrichment daily... See the list growing? At some point you're going to max out their comfort. If your focus for the year is spelling, I'd limit the original writing (business letters, whatnot) and just stick to your goal doing writing that focuses on the goal: improving spelling. The next year, when the dc are over their hump, THEN you phase out some of the spelling-focused writing and bring in the WA type writing. Think of it as something to go to after WT2 if you want. At that point they'll have the skills to do it comfortably. That's my suggestion.

 

TOG does suggest doing some dictation at the beginning of each year, but they don't schedule it for all levels in the classic-might be different with the redesign.

 

Ok looking at my Level 1 and it works heavily on the word bank, which you could use your spelling words for. Does draw & caption, sentences, capitalization & punctuation, dictation...then you do a bunch of cluster and describe exercises...it looks like they are having you do them is steps with a pre-write (graphic organizer), write out separate sentences then join them together for a paragraph, or at least that is the way I would present it. It does some Letters/Notes then goes back to cluster and describe.

 

Level 2 starts out with the Word Bank as well, reviews sentences, punctuation, then moves on to combining short sentences, compound subjects and verbs, sequences of steps in the writing process, paragraphs, which is where it stays for several week, just doing different types of projects with paragraphs. Then it has you moving into summarizing and writing newspaper paragraphs. From there you work on writing fables then into book reports.

 

Level 3 reviews the writing process, dictation, and parts of speech, then moves into graphic organizers, taking reading notes, covers several new types of paragraphs, covers several new types of 3 paragraph reports, introduces compare and contrast, reviews letter writing, has several weeks of writing a play, writing a realistic story, do a photo essay and finishes with poetry.

 

I know level 4 moves into the 3 point (or 5 paragraph) essay.

 

We are also doing CW and to be honest I like both. TOG is strong on form and mechanics. CW is stronger on content...though Homer might be strong in all ares...maybe that is why it is so, "Legendary". We also hs year around, which gives us more time to do both.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Heather

 

 

 

 

 

[scrappyhappymama]

Put a bowl of m&m's on your desk and reward them every time they ask. Make it a positive thing, not a stigma.

 

 

My kids would love this, but it would be SUPER dangerous for mama's waistline! :D