Henle versus Wheelock for ninth grade

[Ame E.]

The kids have been doing Latin for going on four years.. First 3 years were PL, LC1, LC2. This year in school they did Lingua Latina. We will probably homeschool next year.. I am wondering actually where and how to place them. Would Wheelock be too hard for ninth graders? I am afraid the Henle year one will be just a lot of review. I want them reading stuff in Latin.. I want basically a self-study Latin thing. I am willing to spend up to $200 or so on Latin stuff. I can't really afford to enroll them in an online course as this tends to be in the $500 range.. If you have thoughts, suggestions, etc.. I do not want to drop Latin.

 

Ame

[Myra]

I'm going to do Cambridge Latin in the Fall with my then-to-be 7th and 9th grader. It's supposed to be an excellent 'reading' Latin program. We'll be finishing up LCII soon and will head straight into Cambridge Latin.

I can't tell you how self-directed the program is......but stay-tuned for in the Fall!

 

Myra

[Jackie in NE]

Hopefully Plaid Dad or others more knowledgeable than I will chime in, but here's my take....

 

My dd's track was similar to yours. LC I and II, and then we went into Henle. It WAS a lot of review. Sometimes that's good. No harm in reviewing Latin. But Henle was SO dry. My dd tired of it, and she really loves languages.

 

Henle I focuses on noun declensions, and leaves much of the verb conjugations to Henle II. The vocabulary is somewhat streamlined. There is a fair amount of translation in Henle, mostly focusing on battles between the Romans and the Gauls (read "boring" for dd).

 

I decided to throw Cambridge in for a little variation, but I think I was too late. My dd just could not regain her prior enthusiasm. It is story-based, and imho much less structured than Henle. It never caught on with dd.

 

This fall, we're starting Wheelock's online with Regina Coeli. My understanding is that this program moves very quickly. Wheelock's I = 1 yr. high school credit. Wheelock's has a lot more verb work, and a much wider vocabulary.

 

I think it is important to plan out what you want your student to accomplish with his/her Latin studies. I want my dd to take the NLE next year, and also to take AP Latin in High School. If you look at the Regina Coeli web site, they have a neat grid showing the different progressions that one might expect with Wheelock and with Henle. This helped me to choose Wheelock.

 

Wheelock I will likely include a lot of review for my dd, but as she told me.... maybe the grammar will really stick this time because she'll have a "real" teacher :(.

 

C'est la vie.....

 

Good luck in your decision,

 

Jackie

[Karenciavo]

What about Artes Latinae? There's a demo here.

[Storm Bay]

We just made this decision and chose Wheelock's. Dd liked it when she took a look at it and Henle's had strong religious content in the beginning that is enough different than our beliefs to be a stumbling block for dd.

[Susan in TN]

We wuuuuuv Wheelock's. Sorry, I seem to be stuck in "W" words. My ds finished Latin Primer I-III and last year in 6th grade we went through the first half of Wheelocks. Now beyond the first 5 chapters (mostly review), it wasn't easy. But we really enjoyed reading/translating actual passages of Ovid, Cicero, and the like. I don't think it was too hard, but I'm not sure it's self teaching. Ds had to do quite a bit of 'splaining to me :o)

 

ETA: I think it's ideal if your children can work together on it - or at least work with teacher (I wasn't sure from your post if you have more than one working on Latin?). I think ds would have struggled more if I hadn't been learning it right along with him - it makes it much more enjoyable if students can work together on translation (and laugh at their translations :o), quizzing with flashcards, etc.

 

Beyond the first 5 chapters, I felt 2 weeks per chapter was a brisk pace for us. Do-able, but challenging.

 

We got all the resources available - Text, workbook, vocab. flashcards, audio cd, Grote's guide, and chapter vocab. compilation lists, and a Latin/English dictionary. All together cost about $180 from Amazon. We don't use Grote's much or the audio cd. Grote's is particularly helpful when you need to "translate" English grammar to Latin - Wheelock's assumes a firm grasp of grammatical terms.

 

I made up chapter tests from the self-testing exercises in the back of the text and from quiz/test resources on the HarperAcademic website.

 

Hope this helps. There are a lot of excellent Latin programs out there, so definitely look around and see what you think will suit you.

[LisaNY]

The kids have been doing Latin for going on four years.. First 3 years were PL, LC1, LC2. This year in school they did Lingua Latina. We will probably homeschool next year.. I am wondering actually where and how to place them. Would Wheelock be too hard for ninth graders? I am afraid the Henle year one will be just a lot of review. I want them reading stuff in Latin.. I want basically a self-study Latin thing. I am willing to spend up to $200 or so on Latin stuff. I can't really afford to enroll them in an online course as this tends to be in the $500 range.. If you have thoughts, suggestions, etc.. I do not want to drop Latin.

 

Ame

 

How far in Lingua Latina did your dc go?

 

I am assuming you want them to self-study because you can't be involved? I personally feel that Henle is a better fit for 9th gr. self-study. If reading in Latin is your goal, I would definitely stick w/LL, because it will get you there faster than either Henle or Wheelock's. What many people do is use a combination of both Henle and LL, using Henle as their grammar text, and LL for their reader.

 

As Jackie shared, there is nothing wrong with review. I used to feel the same way about Henle being a bit dry. It no longer bothers me, because I am appreciating the methodical way Henle teaches the grammar in small, manageable bits, allowing for much better absorption and retention. I'd rather bear with it being "dry", knowing that my dd is having an easier time learning and retaining the material. :001_smile:

[LaJuana]

...of having many, many free online resources to help the study studying independently. There are quizzes, audio files, Quia games, and so much more.

http://wheelockslatin.com/

is a good place to start, but there are lots of other websites to help. Some of them are listed here:

http://wheelockslatin.com/wheelockslinks.htm

 

While there are lots of ways to learn Latin, our family prefers Wheelock's for several reasons:

 

1. From early in the book, Wheelock's uses "real Latin" passages for translation rather than passages written easy-reader style. This makes a difference in how a student learns to grapple with the difficulties of translating from a real language. This makes it easier to transition into reading whole Latin works without any adjustment.

 

2. The vocabulary in Wheelock's is extensive, which it has to be in order to prepare the student to translate these "real Latin" passages. This also improves the student's English vocabulary.

 

3. The line-upon-line part-to-whole grammar instruction has the benefit of not only teaching the Latin language, but also of training the mind to think in a structured manner and helping the student to use his or her own language with greater skill. Improvements in a student's writing in English are inevitable.

 

4. Wheelock's includes passages from a wide variety of authors and a wide variety of styles of Latin writing. This exposure to all sorts of Latin passages improves the student's understanding of the language itself while also preparing him or her to read with less difficulty whatever Latin text he or she decides to study next. You eliminate the adjustment to a new author.

 

5. Wheelock's is a thorough grammar and translation course that is the "gold standard" of most college Latin programs. If a student has completed Wheelock's, he or she will be on par with the college Latin student who has finished introductory Latin and ready to tackle the next course in the college's program without undue difficulty.

 

Wheelock's moves fast, but by setting a slower pace and using all the online helps, diligent students as young as 12yo can manage it. My children have all used Wheelock's. Two of them began at age 12yo. One finished AP Vergil in 10th grade, and my youngest, a 7th/8th grader, is finishing Chapter 22 now. It's not easy, but it is SO worth the hard work it takes to do it.

 

There are lots of other ways to learn Latin, and some of our family's reasons for choosing this curriculum might not match your family's needs or goals, but especially for self-study, all the free online resources and might tip the balance in favor of Wheelock's.

 

hth

[Gwen in VA]

I have had three children crash and burn on Wheelocks. (My older two are good students -- they just found Wheelocks VERY difficult, even after several years of other Latin 1 material.) my first required individual tutoring to get through Wheelocks, my second dropped Latin and did greek instead, and my third went on a sit-down strike until I promised him Henle instead.

 

We love the order and methodology of Henle. My third child (who crashed and TOTALLY burned on Wheelocks) sort of enjoys Henle, and my fourth is flourishing with it.

 

That said, your child sounds like he has had enough Latin to be able to move quickly enough to go with Wheelocks.

 

Best wishes, whatever you decide!

[Moira in MA]

I, too, decided against Wheelock's for my young learners after Matin Latin I & II.

 

I used Wheelock's to relearn Latin myself but felt that the order, pace and, frankly, the subject matter, was not appropriate for younger learners. It was just too jaded.

 

jm2cents

[latinteach]

The kids have been doing Latin for going on four years.. First 3 years were PL, LC1, LC2. This year in school they did Lingua Latina. We will probably homeschool next year.. I am wondering actually where and how to place them. Would Wheelock be too hard for ninth graders? I am afraid the Henle year one will be just a lot of review. I want them reading stuff in Latin.. I want basically a self-study Latin thing. I am willing to spend up to $200 or so on Latin stuff. I can't really afford to enroll them in an online course as this tends to be in the $500 range.. If you have thoughts, suggestions, etc.. I do not want to drop Latin.

 

Ame

 

Honestly, every book mentioned in this thread -- Wheelock, Cambridge, Artes Latinae, Henle -- is excellent. Wheelock has a great online presence with lots of resources. Cambridge too. (Cambride isn't unstructured. Just structured differently. Check that site for the scope and sequence. They have a catalog with supplementary materials including a guide for independent learners. The goal of Cambridge is to read Latin naturally, left to right. Lots of online activities too. There's an active email list too.) Artes Latinae is similar to Cambridge -- a goal of reading Latin naturally, based on a similar linguistic philosophy. It's self-paced and self-teaching, not cheap, but it is very good done correctly. Henle is extremely good too, with perhaps less of a following in the Classics community (high schools and colleges) probably due to religious content and the fact that other professors have continued to edit the first three textbooks after the initial authors passed away. Remember Wheelocks covers a full college curriculum of Latin and the editor (LaFleur) states 20 chapters equals one high school year of Latin. (In other words, you don't have to finish Wheelock in nine months. It's not a first year high school textbook. It's a college textbook.)

 

You just have to figure out which one is right for you. No easy task!

[LisaNY]

Ame, here is a link to a schedule for Henle

 

As you will see, by the end of 9th gr., all of the necessary Latin grammar is covered, enabling students to begin tackling real Latin authors in 10-12th gr.

[Brenda in MA]

thanks for sharing this. My ds is roughly on this schedule, and I didn't know it was out there. This will definitely help me plan out 7th grade Latin. Thanks also for recommending Lingua Latina. My son loves it now. After Marcus made off with Julius' money in the 4th story, he was hooked!

 

Brenda

[LisaNY]

thanks for sharing this. My ds is roughly on this schedule, and I didn't know it was out there. This will definitely help me plan out 7th grade Latin. Thanks also for recommending Lingua Latina. My son loves it now. After Marcus made off with Julius' money in the 4th story, he was hooked!

 

Brenda

 

Brenda, I'm glad I was able to help you. :001_smile: Did you get Colloquia Personarum? These are stories/"plays" that coincide with each chapter in LL. They offer extra reading practice and expand on the stories. Fun!

[Brenda in MA]

Did you get Colloquia Personarum? These are stories/"plays" that coincide with each chapter in LL. They offer extra reading practice and expand on the stories. Fun!

 

Lisa,

 

Yes, I did get Colloquia Personarum, and my son discovered that the stories are related to the ones in LL. After Medus made off with the 90 coins, he just had to see what happened, so he read the follow-up story in CP. We both were disappointed that Davus did not turn in Medus for the robbery!

 

Thanks again for the recommendation,

Brenda