Of Kolbe, Seton, etc., which is most liberal and Vatican II friendly?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am interested in using Kolbe Academy for ds. I am not currently Catholic but have Catholic roots:001_smile: I was fortunate enough to attend a jesuit prep school that was fairly liberal and Vatican II friendly at the time.

 

Of the homeschool supports such as Kolbe, Seton, MODG, which are the most liberal leaning and Vatican II friendly of them?

 

I appreciate any info.:001_smile:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I realize that they are probably conservative:D I am just wondering if one of them is more adaptable to a liberal leaning family who also has conservative values;)

 

The thing I liked about the jesuits and Vatican II was that your inquiry was valued. I was taught to know for myself why I believe and that following your conscience has a value in the Church. So I guess if one of these is more compatible for me.....

 

 

:lurk5:

[Jujudalu]

Hello Priscilla

 

I am interested to see what replies you receive. Kolbe of course claims to use the Ignatian method. They have a short publication about using the Ignatian method for homeschooling. I would say that Seton is the most conservative of those you listed from looking at some of their material and perusing their website. Seton and MODG both use Apologia for science and lean towards creationism. MODG's curriculum is set to prepare students for Thomas Aquinas. Kolbe does not use or recommend Apologia. You don't include CHC in your list which uses Mary Daly's Universe in My Hands for science and not creationist texts. They also use Catholic Textbook Project texts for history rather than Anne Carroll's books. My only issue with CHC is whether it is academically rigorous or not. It is also workbook based and not really classical. I would also love to give my children the benefit of a Jesuit-like (inquiry-based) education.

 

Julia

[Crimson Wife]

If you're looking for materials that are post-Vatican II, you'll be fine with Kolbe, Seton, and CHC. There are occasional pictures in the Baltimore Catechism books showing the priest facing the altar rather than the parishioners but none of the actual doctrine taught has changed. We occasionally attend the Traditional Latin Mass so my kids have never questioned the pictures.

 

I would stay away from OLVS, which is *VERY* "old school" Catholic. It's loyal to the Magisterium but pushes the TLM only and the materials it uses are reprints of old books.

[Avila]

I am interested in using Kolbe Academy for ds. I am not currently Catholic but have Catholic roots:001_smile: I was fortunate enough to attend a jesuit prep school that was fairly liberal and Vatican II friendly at the time.

 

Of the homeschool supports such as Kolbe, Seton, MODG, which are the most liberal leaning and Vatican II friendly of them?

 

I appreciate any info.:001_smile:

 

Definitely Kolbe. I think the Anne Carroll books alone in Seton would make you crazy. We are conservative Catholics, and I have trouble using the Seton history books.

 

I would not call any of them liberal, but Kolbe offers the most flexibility and a secular science program. Kolbe has a very strong Great Books program for high school, but before that, it does not feel as classical to me. The k-8 book choices feel more traditional/textbookish. But the literature programs are supposed to be really good, even at that level.

 

If you are looking at enrolling in k-8, you may want to think about swapping out the grammar (Voyages in English '60s is very technical and very, very Catholic) and the history (which is OK until you get to Anne Carroll, but not as interesting as WTM). Those would be the two areas, in your case, that I think you would have the most issues with. I would sub in your choice for grammar and either WTM history or the Catholic Textbook Project books, if you want a more textbook approach. It would not surprise me if Kolbe ends up using the CTP books eventually. I wish Kolbe would finish their grammar series because what they are doing is really good. But for now, you might be better doing your own choice there.

 

Best wishes!

Edited June 19, 2011 by Asenik

[cathmom]

You won't be happy with Seton.

[kristinannie]

I would go with Kolbe Academy. If there is anything you don't like (any subject), you can just switch it with something you prefer. The only time they are a little more serious about what you can choose is if you want one of the honors diplomas for high school (but you can still switch with preapproval). I have found them extremely easy to work with. If you want to have a classical education from an accredited school with a transcript (their transcripts are accepted by the NCAA) in which you, the parent, is completely in charge of your education, go with Kolbe. Seton and MODG are harder to switch out subjects.

[RootAnn]

I realize that they are probably conservative:D I am just wondering if one of them is more adaptable to a liberal leaning family who also has conservative values;)

 

The thing I liked about the jesuits and Vatican II was that your inquiry was valued. I was taught to know for myself why I believe and that following your conscience has a value in the Church. So I guess if one of these is more compatible for me.....

 

I would say that all the Catholic umbrella schools are conservative. (Following an informed conscience is always valued in the Church, IMO.) They are all Vatican II-friendly, however, I don't think your meaning of that phrase matches mine. :tongue_smilie:

 

The only one that I don't know much about is Catholic Heritage Curricula (CHC). St. Thomas Aquinas Academy is pretty flexible, but would probably not fall under a "liberal" category.

 

You can pick & choose which materials you want to use with any of them. (For example, I'm using Seton's Religion 4 in the fall for my older two.) You don't have to be enrolled to buy the books. (You do need to enroll if you want Seton's lesson plans.)

 

MODG is pretty easy to pick & choose from, if you don't want to enroll in their full program. Kolbe allows substitutions for most things, as previous posters have indicated.

 

IMO, religion, history, & science (in that order) are going to be the sticking points for you. But, heck, I don't like some of their religion, history, & science picks which is why I always put together my own (eclectic) choices.

 

Why, specifically, are you wanting to go with an umbrella school? Or, more specifically, what do you want to get from them? (Academically, religiously, etc.)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I would say that all the Catholic umbrella schools are conservative. (Following an informed conscience is always valued in the Church, IMO.) They are all Vatican II-friendly, however, I don't think your meaning of that phrase matches mine. :tongue_smilie:

 

The only one that I don't know much about is Catholic Heritage Curricula (CHC). St. Thomas Aquinas Academy is pretty flexible, but would probably not fall under a "liberal" category.

 

You can pick & choose which materials you want to use with any of them. (For example, I'm using Seton's Religion 4 in the fall for my older two.) You don't have to be enrolled to buy the books. (You do need to enroll if you want Seton's lesson plans.)

 

MODG is pretty easy to pick & choose from, if you don't want to enroll in their full program. Kolbe allows substitutions for most things, as previous posters have indicated.

 

IMO, religion, history, & science (in that order) are going to be the sticking points for you. But, heck, I don't like some of their religion, history, & science picks which is why I always put together my own (eclectic) choices.

 

Why, specifically, are you wanting to go with an umbrella school? Or, more specifically, what do you want to get from them? (Academically, religiously, etc.)

 

I am contemplating an umbrella school to have access to instructors for feedback primarily for writing. I also like that it I can say to my son that this is what the school has assigned so to speak as a back up to my own parental authority;) I also like the idea of third party transcripts especially for the future. It may also give ds a feeling of belonging to a "school" but I am unsure how important this. I am heartened that more and more people seem accepting of homeschooling because I think it is a fantastic option for kids hands down in most cases. Unfortunately there is still great prejudice against homeschooling even in my family:(.

 

In regards to Vatican II, I guess I have gotten the impression that some would like to see things go back to pre-Vatican II. It is hard to verbalize, but at prep in the 70s we had to study the Vatican II documents and it left a good impression on me even though I ultimately left the church years later. I am still quite fond of the church though and see a lot of good. I would have no problem with religious education or saint stories and would use them as a springboard to discuss the eclectic beliefs that dh and I have:D I would probably want to substitute Loyola Press religious education materials but I am open to using Kolbe's as well. The Catholic Teaching textbooks for history seem great as well.

[RootAnn]

... have access to instructors for feedback primarily for writing.

... "this is what the school has assigned"

... third party transcripts

 

I would probably want to substitute Loyola Press religious education materials but I am open to using Kolbe's as well. The Catholic Teaching textbooks for history seem great as well.

 

*goes back through list with these ideas in mind*

STAA doesn't offer feedback on writing assignments, so they're out.

 

MODG has a "Teacher Review" program that provides three "consultations" per year which include review of assignments as requested, but seems to be quite pricey for what (little) it offers.

 

Kolbe has an "Enhanced Evaluation Service" which would provide feedback on up to 12 samples each quarter. It is in addition to the regular enrollment. You can also get access to EES with a "single course" enrollment.

 

CHC doesn't provide transcripts and I don't think they do grading, either. However, they have something called Writing Workshop which gives writing assignments & Sandra someone tailors her improvement comments to that paper.

 

Seton looks like it provides feedback on lessons on a regular basis (no specifics given, but I saw references often to "grading" & "academic counseling"), but it doesn't look like they encourage ANY exchanges on their curriculum vs. what you might want. (As previous posters have pointed out, Seton probably wouldn't match your viewpoints very well & they put Catholic stuff in EVERY subject.)

 

Regina Coeli doesn't have a whole lot of information, but they list "Individualized composition feedback available for added fee."

 

There's also Angelicum Academy. It seems to be a lot different than the others (and in some cases, quite a bit cheaper). It is very flexible as you can use as few or many of their courses as you like at whatever grade level.

[Orthodox6]

Slipping in the side door here, as I am not a Catholic. Have you considered using "Angelicum Academy"? Although it is a Catholic homeschooling program, no religious coursework is required (unless things have changed during very recent years). I thought the program sufficiently rigorous, and quite flexible. (We could substitute other course materials just by asking.) I thought of suggesting this because you could incorporate -- or not use at all -- your choice of religious materials. We experienced a completely welcoming attitude from A.A., despite being non-Catholic.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Slipping in the side door here, as I am not a Catholic. Have you considered using "Angelicum Academy"? Although it is a Catholic homeschooling program, no religious coursework is required (unless things have changed during very recent years). I thought the program sufficiently rigorous, and quite flexible. (We could substitute other course materials just by asking.) I thought of suggesting this because you could incorporate -- or not use at all -- your choice of religious materials. We experienced a completely welcoming attitude from A.A., despite being non-Catholic.

 

Wow Angelicum seems great as well especially the online great books and socratic discussions. Have you used these serivces from them?

 

It seems Kolbe and Angelicum look to be the best fits from what I can tell. I wonder which one has literature guides with the most hand holding for the parent? I am hoping forn very detailed parent guides to perhaps save myself a little reading now and then;).

[Orthodox6]

Many years ago -- as the son in question is nearly 25 years old -- a DS audited the 9th grade discussion class. He "tuned in" via computer patch, and had a great time. I liked and appreciated that he could audit, rather than commit to formal student status. We all thought it an excellent program.

 

I'm not crazy about the science textbooks for Angelicum; thought they were weak. (mostly Glencoe public school materials). Still, everything was well organized and laid out.

 

The Angelicum lesson plans are so easy to use!

 

Don't remember about literature guides.

 

I especially like the art history and music history coursework available through A.A. Excellent textbooks.

 

Best of all (for our situation), one does not even need to enroll in the full school program in order to purchase books and syllabi for individual courses. ! ! ! :)

 

Wow Angelicum seems great as well especially the online great books and socratic discussions. Have you used these serivces from them?

 

It seems Kolbe and Angelicum look to be the best fits from what I can tell. I wonder which one has literature guides with the most hand holding for the parent? I am hoping forn very detailed parent guides to perhaps save myself a little reading now and then;).

[Tiramisu]

Wow Angelicum seems great as well especially the online great books and socratic discussions. Have you used these serivces from them?

 

It seems Kolbe and Angelicum look to be the best fits from what I can tell. I wonder which one has literature guides with the most hand holding for the parent? I am hoping forn very detailed parent guides to perhaps save myself a little reading now and then;).

 

I can't comment on AA but Seton has a lot of hand holding in their English/Reading/Literature courses. I've looked at the plans for different levels and used their English 9. I can honestly say there is everything there for both student and parent to be successful.

 

You could always do a single course enrollment.:)

[HFClassicalAcademy]

We've been using Angelicum for almost 4 years and we really like it. You pick and choose what you want your kids to do and are not locked into any grade level. Example, my 1st grader used some of their 2nd and 3rd grade lessons. You set the school year on your own schedule (if you choose to enroll), so they are a bit more flexible than other Catholic programs I've researched.

 

In the past there were a lot of complaints about Angelicum being slow to answer email and mail plans, etc. I have not encountered any of that since we have been with them. I had my kids enrolled in the past, but won't be doing so this year. I'm just going with the lesson plans. There is no need for me to have grading services as of yet (my oldest is going into 4th). But if you want to have that additional support, then I would recommend to enroll.

 

Out of most programs, Angelicum is really very affordable.

 

HTH!

Liz

[SkateLeft]

I would go with Kolbe Academy. If there is anything you don't like (any subject), you can just switch it with something you prefer. The only time they are a little more serious about what you can choose is if you want one of the honors diplomas for high school (but you can still switch with preapproval).

 

:iagree: And actually, they only insist that you use their materials and course plans as written if your child is going for the Summa high school diploma or wants the "core" or "honors" designations for a course. A student in the general diploma or Magna diploma track can choose to pursue those designations for a particular course, but it's not a requirement.

 

My older three kids are enrolled in Kolbe. My oldest daughter is pursuing the Magna diploma, which is the college prep diploma. We've used the biology course plan, but pretty much did our own thing for all the other subjects. They have no problem with us using our own materials in any subject, including theology. I assign the grades.

[Jujudalu]

Hello

 

At sometime or other I have spent a serious amount of time looking at each of the Catholic curriculum listed. I have purchased lesson plans from CHC but found them too loose and not academically challenging enough. Although, their gentle approach is part of their pitch and appreciated by many. I like that their science courses are not limited to YE and creation science material.

 

I looked long and hard at Angelicum Academy but was put off by a very strange email I received out of the blue debating the value of truth. It started out Dear Madam and was somewhat abrupt in tone. I am sure it was sent to me by mistake but when I emailed asking why I had received the email I didn't get a reply. I am not surprised that the non-Catholic poster had a positive experience with Angelicum. At least when I last looked, the curriculum was the same as the Great Book Academy with religion courses tagged on. The administrative staff seemed the same and some of the teaching staff was shared. The Socratic discussions also seemed to be shared so I wasn't sure how much religious content would be included in the discussion. That was sometime ago so Angelicum may be completely independent now. I know it is now closely associated with Ignatius Press. Earning credit for a Liberal Arts degree during high school is also appealing.

 

There was a question about literature guides. I know that they have Elementary Literature Guides (4-6) and Junior High Literature Guides (7-8). I have purchased the Elementary Guides. The price is steep but you it is a lot of information. I have heard very positive reviews of the Junior High Literature Guides.

 

I am curious about Kolbe's science. It doesn't use YE/Creationist texts either as do MODG and Seton and I think even St Thomas Aquinas Academy does but I have heard kolbe science is very dry.

 

That is my major reservation about Kolbe. I wonder how dry it is. Maybe by high school there is just so much material to get through that that is the way to go for rigour.

 

Just my penny's worth.

[Guest ramzee]

It looks like this is an old thread, but anyway....

 

My wife and I use and love Seton -- 90% of the time anyway.

 

Things Seton could do better:

 

Geography: I like geography so perhaps I expect too much but Seton REALLY seems weak here -- and in the social sciences in general. We get more out of internet searches, studying our National Geographic globe, and going on cia.gov's World Factbook than anything Seton has available. Most colleges require four social science courses in three areas as part of their "common core." We'd like to prep our daughter for at least three social science areas before sending her off to college. Acing freshman calculus and then getting a C in a human geography course seems a little bizarre to me.

 

History: Seton history ranges from good examples of saints and heroic figures all the way to jingoistically Catholic propaganda. I am Catholic from the crown of my head to the tips of my toenails; yet I am speechless how the darkest chapters in Catholic Church history are presented as pleasantly virtuous (e.g. Cortez's bloodthirsty and greedy conquest of Mexico -- not that the Aztecs and human sacrifice were good either). As I look down the road, we may do something alternate when we get to the Inquisition.

 

Science: I have no problem with the somewhat Creationist bent of Seton science texts. If one doesn't believe that God guided evolution or directly created us, why would you enroll in a Catholic home school? Their science texts, however, jump all over the "map." The FIRST grade book uses words such as ischium and manubrium (p. 66), aorta and vena cava (p. 59), arrector pili and subcutaneous layer (pp. 44-45), antagonistic pair and ulna (p. 28), cochlea and stapes (p.22), aqueous humor and choroid (p.14), and so on. I didn't hit these words until a sophomore in college, and there really isn't much of a context for them. On the other hand, the main part of the text has two chapters on hygiene, eleven on science "proper," two on emergencies, and then three on the Soul, the Resurrection, and Angels: Messengers of God. OVERALL, the bulk of it is readable and age-appropriate, despite the times I spent scratching my head.

 

My advice: I looked over all the Kolbe stuff at a conference and I thought it was a little TOO difficult and TOO "narrow."

 

I like Seton's liberal arts approach, with all the classes they offer. Most are excellent. One can opt out of many of them and still pass a grade.

 

My other advice: If you have the money, sign up for Saxon math with Seton. Also order Nancy Larson's science books and do them on your own at home -- they're unreal and worth every penny.

 

-- Just my Opinion,

 

Ramzee

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thanks for your input. I was put off a little that Seton uses Apologia which I suspect is anti-Catholic. I went to a jesuit prep school and all of our science materials were secular so why not chose one of the many rigorous secular science books?? Kolbe does this and I believe they have a pamphlet on god and creation as well for parents if they wish to use it. I cannot imagine that the prep school I went to ever choosing Apologia. Not ever.

[celticadea]

 

My other advice: If you have the money, sign up for Saxon math with Seton. Also order Nancy Larson's science books and do them on your own at home -- they're unreal and worth every penny.

 

-- Just my Opinion,

 

Ramzee

..slightly off topic, but....

 

by Nancy Larson science books do you mean these : http://www.nancylarson.com/index_hs2.html

 

they don't seem like "books" to me so I'm not sure if I'm thinking of the wrong thing. the program is certainly pricey! :) but gets good reviews.

[Tiramisu]

Thanks for your input. I was put off a little that Seton uses Apologia which I suspect is anti-Catholic. I went to a jesuit prep school and all of our science materials were secular so why not chose one of the many rigorous secular science books?? Kolbe does this and I believe they have a pamphlet on god and creation as well for parents if they wish to use it. I cannot imagine that the prep school I went to ever choosing Apologia. Not ever.

 

I think Seton allows Apologia as an alternate science and offers lesson plans at some levels and at some levels without. It's not their primary science program. Most of their elementary science books seem to be of their own making now, but I think they started the Apologia option because their customers wanted it.

 

At the ninth grade level, they have two science courses to choose from, Earth Science and Physical Science. I think one uses a book by ABeka and Bob Jones, I think. Their tenth grade book is by Christian Liberty Press, I think (again). (It's been awhile since I looked at their high school science.) There is a definite preference for a Christian point of view over secular. The anti-Catholic concerns about those publishers are a secondary concern. I heard this addressed once at a conference. Until there's a better choice of science from a Christian perspective, that's what they will use.