Need assistance from high school/ college moms or students

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I need help explaining something to my daughter. She is in 7th grade and I have her take notes in History& Science. Just today told her I would like her to take notes in math (its starting to get harder, I want her to take notes from her DVD lectures so she has something to reference back to) and she started complaining "Really, in math too?" :nopity: "You already have me taking notes in history and science" :nopity: This child wants to be a vet, so obviously college is in her future. I am trying to get her up to par with high school writing. Can you tell her directly what high school (and any college students chime in also so she knows what is ahead) writing expectations are from your student (or mom if you are the student). I want her to be well prepared for what is expected in High School and college and not just think I am picking on her. Thanks in advance :001_smile:

[Running the race]

:lurk5: I have a 14yo ds who has no idea how to take notes. I know it is a skill he desperately needs to develop, but his handwriting is atrocious. He'd have to use a computer.

[Caroline]

I know there is a professor in the vet school at UGA who makes his students take notes with their non-dominant hands. I believe his expertise is in large animals. So you could tell your daughter she is lucky you are letting her use her dominant hand for taking notes.

[SheWhoWaits]

She MUST learn to take notes well. She will not survive college without that skill.

[actuary]

I am a fairly recent college grad who majored in math and I have to say learning to take good notes for math classes is a very good skill to have! I wish I had learned to take good notes sooner. I had a tendency to be really sloppy in taking notes and it really hurt me when it came time to study for tests - it is way easier to study for a professor's test when you have nicely written notes instead of a bunch of randomly scrawled stuff, with huge chunks of information missing! And professors move at a fairly fast pace so it's important to be efficient at writing information down too. That was something else I struggled with - writing information down in real time, as the professor talked. There's a bit of an art to figuring out how much to jot down, what abbreviations to use, etc.

 

Even now in studying for actuarial exams, I take notes from my math textbooks in order to help me absorb and learn the material. So, note taking really isn't a skill you can avoid. And I really wish I had learned better study skills when I was back in 7th grade instead of later on in college. Developing good habits early on would have been so much better than having to play catch up in college!

 

Hope that helps! :)

[Jane in NC]

In our house, Math class happened at the dining room table, elbow to elbow, with me writing and drawing on paper set before us. When it was all said and done at the end of 12th grade, I asked what should we have differently. "White board--I should have taken notes."

 

Stunned silence on my part.

 

He grumbled about notetaking but failed to see the value until he took CC courses. Perhaps that voice of experience will help!

[Pat in MI]

When I was in college the best grades I received were when I took the time to take notes on the book material. I would split my paper and take notes from the textbook on one side and jot notes from the professor on the other side. I really knew the material this way. It takes a lot of time, but worth it in the end. Like other posters have mentioned that is a skill I did not learn in school. I had to develop it on my own. Your dd is very lucky that you are taking the time to teach her this. Though she complains, she will thank you when she hits college and she can take notes easily.

Blessings,

Pat

[flyingiguana]

This probably isn't something you want to hear, but my daughter never ever took notes from a lecture until she walked into her first college class. At which point she took notes beautifully and has done very well in all her classes ever since. (When I say beautifully, I mean she got most everything down with reasonable accuracy. It's not that they're readable.)

 

One thing to keep in mind is that it may not be all that easy to take notes from DVD lectures because they may not have been set up with that in mind. If you want practice taking notes from a lecture, it may be better to find some online college lectures where the professor is writing everything on the board (ie - no handouts where all the notes might already be written out for the students). It's pretty impossible to take good notes from a lecture where the time to write things down isn't built into it.

 

Also, it might actually be better NOT to take notes from a math lecture, if you have the DVDs that can be referenced back to. Although it's a really good idea to write everything down in a class (so you can go back to it) it may not be best thing to do if you always have ready access to the lectures. Sometimes it's better to think through the problem with the professor as it's written down, rather than racing to get everything down on a piece of paper. Taking notes can distract from understanding. (It can be good tool to focus attention if the mind would wander otherwise, though.) (If it's note taking from a math book, I've found the best approach is to take notes within the book itself, so I have the original right there in case I've made a mistake in copying.)

 

I have found (and so has my daughter) that in math class, although I may be scribbling down notes like crazy because I have to before the board gets erased, I don't understand a thing while in the class. I have to go back later and look over my notes. If I had the professor right there on DVD and could rewind at any time, I think I'd dispense with the notes (which are generally an imperfect copy of what was said anyway) because it would make more sense to use the time to try to understand.

 

And that may be why your daughter is balking at taking notes, because she senses it isn't the best way to learn, given the materials she's currently using. A lot of times, when my kids balk at something and seem like they're just being contrary, I realize later that they knew best all along. They were doing their best to understand and knew, without being able to verbalize it, that the way I was telling them to go about it just wasn't working.

 

ETA: (Because I didn't really answer your question.) My daughter is finds that she doesn't need to take anything but the occasional note in her non science/math classes. And even those she never refers back to. These are honors lit and history classes, which all the other students complain about the difficulty of. She does, however, write down every single thing in her math and science classes. She just doesn't understand it when she's writing it down, but it's in her notebook. I think, given that your daughter is in 7th grade, that you have to decide whether you want to focus on notetaking or understanding right now. Probably you can train her in note taking just fine without having it take over every single subject, so you might want to consider if too much note taking is hindering her understanding at this point.

Edited May 21, 2011 by flyingiguana

[2cents]

I know there is a professor in the vet school at UGA who makes his students take notes with their non-dominant hands. I believe his expertise is in large animals. So you could tell your daughter she is lucky you are letting her use her dominant hand for taking notes.

 

Now that is interesting! Is there a reason for that? I'm guessing it is because they would have to really concentrate on what they're writing and maybe that makes it sink in more?? I'll tell the kiddos that they should consider themselves fortunate that I haven't tried this technique on them...yet. :lol:

 

I agree with the above poster about the math notes too. I personally found that concentrating on note taking in math took away from concentrating on the actual process taking place. As long as there is a cd or book to refer back to, I personally wouldn't require note taking in math.

Edited May 21, 2011 by 2cents

[Julie in MN]

I like the idea of math notes. My own teacher had me create a math notebook outlining all of the major tenets in high school, and I used that to prep for my college entrance exams after having been out of school for a while.

 

However, I think in 7th grade, starting with notes on two subjects is enough.

 

Julie

[Jane in NC]

 

However, I think in 7th grade, starting with notes on two subjects is enough.

 

Julie

 

That is a good point.

 

Perhaps instead of taking notes in science, this might be a good time to start working on lab reports.

[4wildberrys]

This probably isn't something you want to hear, but my daughter never ever took notes from a lecture until she walked into her first college class. At which point she took notes beautifully and has done very well in all her classes ever since. (When I say beautifully, I mean she got most everything down with reasonable accuracy. It's not that they're readable.)

 

One thing to keep in mind is that it may not be all that easy to take notes from DVD lectures because they may not have been set up with that in mind. If you want practice taking notes from a lecture, it may be better to find some online college lectures where the professor is writing everything on the board (ie - no handouts where all the notes might already be written out for the students). It's pretty impossible to take good notes from a lecture where the time to write things down isn't built into it.

 

Also, it might actually be better NOT to take notes from a math lecture, if you have the DVDs that can be referenced back to. Although it's a really good idea to write everything down in a class (so you can go back to it) it may not be best thing to do if you always have ready access to the lectures. Sometimes it's better to think through the problem with the professor as it's written down, rather than racing to get everything down on a piece of paper. Taking notes can distract from understanding. (It can be good tool to focus attention if the mind would wander otherwise, though.) (If it's note taking from a math book, I've found the best approach is to take notes within the book itself, so I have the original right there in case I've made a mistake in copying.)

 

I have found (and so has my daughter) that in math class, although I may be scribbling down notes like crazy because I have to before the board gets erased, I don't understand a thing while in the class. I have to go back later and look over my notes. If I had the professor right there on DVD and could rewind at any time, I think I'd dispense with the notes (which are generally an imperfect copy of what was said anyway) because it would make more sense to use the time to try to understand.

 

And that may be why your daughter is balking at taking notes, because she senses it isn't the best way to learn, given the materials she's currently using. A lot of times, when my kids balk at something and seem like they're just being contrary, I realize later that they knew best all along. They were doing their best to understand and knew, without being able to verbalize it, that the way I was telling them to go about it just wasn't working.

 

ETA: (Because I didn't really answer your question.) My daughter is finds that she doesn't need to take anything but the occasional note in her non science/math classes. And even those she never refers back to. These are honors lit and history classes, which all the other students complain about the difficulty of. She does, however, write down every single thing in her math and science classes. She just doesn't understand it when she's writing it down, but it's in her notebook. I think, given that your daughter is in 7th grade, that you have to decide whether you want to focus on notetaking or understanding right now. Probably you can train her in note taking just fine without having it take over every single subject, so you might want to consider if too much note taking is hindering her understanding at this point.

 

 

:iagree: Especially with the bolded part. Learning to take notes and why is always good----but you don't have to duplicate college classes and the note taking dynamic! I too have learned from my very wise dd that teaching a good foundation is what counts----because her first class outside of home where she had to take notes and study she aced, while the regular school kids used to note taking and studying didn't. Could be personality, but I really believe that a foundation of understanding and briefing kids on what will be expected later lays a better foundation than simply duplicating the note taking that is done because a teacher doesn't have time to interact with each student. ;) I honestly think that if you start instituting note taking for each class starting now, in 7th, you will hit extreme burnout...fast. :001_huh:

[Julie in MN]

In notetaking in math, it says you think the child is not retaining from the lecture. If that's the case, this assignment may help improve the active listening skills. If it is not the case, no need for this assignment.

This makes sense -- if she's not getting it, time to try *something* to help her retain.

 

 

FWIW: I took no notes in math until college and few then (Calc through PDE). My profs expected me to use active listening, understand the lecture and grasp the points & participate in the discussion to the point of figuring out some of the ramifications. All major points were in the text and insight was derived from the problem sets and problems shown...these would be used for generating study sheets if needed. I had roommates who spent hours trying to understand their notes - wonderful transcripts, but they had not been able to understand the material as they were too busy copying the spoken and written mat'l to actively participate in understanding the topic while they were in class.

This is one of my pet peeves. People have stopped lectures to tell me not to take notes, and taking notes is the way I learn -- even if it's not the way they learn. Sorry for the sidetrack, but no-note-taking tyrants who tell me I can't pay attention while taking notes have been a thorn in my side.

 

It does, though, bring up a good point. The OP might want to talk to dd about how she best learns. Doing *something* with the material is essential, but what that something is can be different for different folks. For example, chatting about the class afterwards can do more than taking notes for some. For me, the act of writing puts it in my brain and chatting just goes into the air, for some reason. But junior hi is a good time to explore how she learns best.

 

Julie

[Alyce]

I felt it would be too distracting for them to take notes rather than just focus on learning what they were expected to learn. We did talk about note taking and developing your own short cuts, how to know what to note about etc. Both of mine have gone on to college and have had no problem taking notes. One doesn't short hand at all because she prefers not to, the other does. neither one takes notes in every class. It depends on the professor and the way he/she teaches class. My dd did take notes for statistics but didn't not for calculus. She did for Japanese but did not for Geology. For me I took the occasional note when I was in school during my first two years, mostly in those courses I had trouble understanding. In my last 2 years I took notes in every single class but then again I was in the "formal" part of my nursing degree and all the classes were very important. That's when I really had to come up with a good short hand because my teachers didn't give time to take long notes.

As for homeschool I think it's really more important to learn how your Dd is learning if you have her take notes. Are taking the notes helping her learn or are they distracting her from learning. I know when I take notes from my bible it distracts me because I focus too much on writing down what I think I need to remember and then I don't remember or comprehend what I've just read. Needless to say I no longer take notes like that. I don't see any need for her to take notes in a lot of her classes. Perhaps math would be good especially from something she was hearing like a DVD. It would be like taking notes during a lecture (although I agree with poster that DVD's aren't always set up to make note taking easier) and then have her take book notes on one of her harder subjects. That way she'll learn to take take notes in both the important ways and won't feel she's doing busy work.

[Julie in MN]

.all they did was make a transcript. That left them with a transcript and a text to decipher, which usually meant a low grade and retaking the course in summer school at a CC.

 

I never usually read my notes :)

I just need to write while I listen. Then I learn it, and no need to read.

 

Sounds like your roomies had not figured out how they best learned.

Julie

[Julie in MN]

they would complain bitterly about not being 'taught'..ie wanted to have all the dots connected for them so they could memorize the insight someone else figured out and then reproduce on the test, calling it 'learned' material rather than 'memorized'.

 

Sadly, I feel this is only increasing exponentially. In my daily life, I have felt that a desire to help young people has somehow turned to an expectation by young people to be spoon fed. Some of wonder what will happen to our young if something crashes, like the stock market, and makes life really hard :blink:

 

Maybe that was more the problem your friends had, rather than taking notes being a problem?

 

Julie

[Tullia]

I'd restrict the note-taking to one or two subjects in any given school year. Learning to take notes for math is a good habit to develop. I'd suggest that she always take notes in some form for math each year and maybe rotate other subjects. I'd suggest that you have your daughter augment any notes she takes during video portions of math lessons with things she learns while working problems and analyzing missed problems. My son found his math notes invaluable later on for SAT and ACT review.

 

My son also got a lot of benefit from the note-taking strategies discussed in IEW's Advanced Communication Series dvd's. In college, his 1st semester chemistry instructor was not a native English speaker and was sometime difficult to understand; taking good notes helped my son make an A. He was so glad we'd used the IEW materials. If I had it to do over, I'd have introduced the IEW dvd's before 12th grade :D.

 

Note-taking is an individual skill, so instead of approaching this as a situation where you say, "You will take notes." I'd suggest you say, "This is a skill you will need for college. Let's experiment to find out what methods work best for you for different types of courses." She will probably complain. My son complained often about school work. He's since told me that he's glad I insisted. I am so much smarter now that ds is in college ;).

[Clover11]

I know there is a professor in the vet school at UGA who makes his students take notes with their non-dominant hands.

 

 

Now that is interesting! Is there a reason for that?

 

 

 

Maybe to force them to become adept at using their non-dominant hand. During surgery it would benefit a vet to be ambidextrous.

 

That's my guess anyway :D

[Caroline]

Maybe to force them to become adept at using their non-dominant hand. During surgery it would benefit a vet to be ambidextrous.

 

That's my guess anyway :D

 

That and losing use of a hand is a hazard of being a large (think elephant) animal vet.

[krstbrwn]

I never taught my daughter to take notes from a lecture. I did help her try to learn to take them from a textbook. She started taking college classes last fall, and she seemed to be able to take notes quite well. She does it differently than I would do it, but she made an A in the class, so:001_huh:.

Also, in Advanced Math this year, we used Art Reed who suggested we make note cards. Wow, what a revelation! It was so helpful. Rather than searching through the text to remind us how to work a problem, we had it right in front of us. It also helped with retention. I don't know why I have not done this before, and I will use this technique with my following children.