Help me not quit Saxon!

[AlisonK]

I really need some help deciding what to do about math. This is our first year of homeschool using Saxon Math for DS 8 and DS 5. I love the way Saxon works and my boys are really loving and understanding math. My problem is with DS 8 who is using Saxon 3. It takes SO LONG for us to complete a lesson each day. No matter what I try we don't finish in less than 1.5 hrs and sometimes longer. I have tried braking it up, incentives for DS, timing each part etc. I try to let him do as much of the meeting work independently as I can and we don't usually do the second side of the worksheet as long as he gets the first side right.

 

I just can't have math taking up this much of our day. But I really love Saxon...

 

Next year he would do 5/4. Is it going to be better or worse? Should I give up? Some friends use Math U See and said it might be better for us.

 

Btw Saxon K is not taking long at all and DS 5 loves it. However, I am worried it will start to take too long when we start Saxon 1 next year.

 

You all have been so wise and such a blessing this year. I am hoping you can help me once again to make the best choice for next year.

 

Thank you! :bigear:

[Carol in Cal.]

You know, I don't see a problem with an hour and a half on math, if it's done the Saxon does--almost as three separate subjects. There is the meeting, the facts review sheet, and the lesson/homework part. Does it help to think of it that way?

 

I did the same thing with language arts. I didn't call it all LA to myself. I called it reading acquisition, sustained silent reading, spelling, grammar, writing, editing, and literature.

 

By fifth grade in the most developmental, constructivist school I know of, kids are spending an hour and a half on math in school and then also taking homework home. It's important to practice math, quite a bit. I think your hour and a half is very reasonable, maybe even a little speedy, considering what you're doing.

[LinRTX]

I always find Saxon 54 to be so much less. I have gone from Saxon 3 to Saxon 54 three times now. I always breathe a sigh of relief to move on. I think you will find next year much easier.

 

Linda

[Mandy in TN]

You know, I don't see a problem with an hour and a half on math, if it's done the Saxon does--almost as three separate subjects. There is the meeting, the facts review sheet, and the lesson/homework part. Does it help to think of it that way?

 

I did the same thing with language arts. I didn't call it all LA to myself. I called it reading acquisition, sustained silent reading, spelling, grammar, writing, editing, and literature.

 

By fifth grade in the most developmental, constructivist school I know of, kids are spending an hour and a half on math in school and then also taking homework home. It's important to practice math, quite a bit. I think your hour and a half is very reasonable, maybe even a little speedy, considering what you're doing.

:iagree:especially the bolded part

 

find Saxon 54 to be so much less.

:iagree:I don't care for the lower levels of Saxon, but really like 54-87.

 

I just can't have math taking up this much of our day. But I really love Saxon...

 

Next year he would do 5/4. Is it going to be better or worse? Should I give up? Some friends use Math U See and said it might be better for us.

 

Btw Saxon K is not taking long at all and DS 5 loves it. However, I am worried it will start to take too long when we start Saxon 1 next year.

 

You all have been so wise and such a blessing this year. I am hoping you can help me once again to make the best choice for next year.

My best advice would be to make sure that you break up his math work into manageable bites. As was said, think of math as separate mini-subjects like we tend to naturally do with LA.

Do computation- a sheet of drill work or flashcards or number games together (10min). Then, do some spelling.

Instruction- some problems together on a white board while you discuss the day's lesson (15min). Then, do some grammar.

Independent work- Have him do the lesson problems (20 min). If it drags on, try doing them with him on a white board. If it just isn't happening, put it up and finish the next day. The next day start fresh with computation, review the instruction, and then pick up the lesson where you left off. Do math year round so that it doesn't matter if it takes multiple days to finsh a lesson. Then, do some reading.

 

Only you can decide if a particular math curriculum is right for your family, but remember that math is a mastery subject. It is not a survey/ content subject like history or science. However much time you spend on these subjects, plan to spend more than that on math.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[lulubelle]

We just finished Saxon 3 about a month ago!!! I was so relieved. But, I think it is so solid and worth all the work! It took 11 months and 1 week to get through it! It is a lot! We did not do math on Fridays. Good luck with what you decide to do.

[sixpence1978]

:lurk5:

 

Looking for any more advice people throw your way. We are finishing up Saxon 2. We do break up the lessons a bit. We do the meeting work in the morning. A bit later we do the lesson. And then even later in the day we do the drill sheet.

 

I do like the program. My DD is doing really well with the teaching and likes the manipulatives that are used. However, she is TIRED of the worksheets being the same nearly every day. She drags her feet on that part just because it is so tedious.

 

We are really trying to decide whether or not to use it for 3rd and then move onto 5/4, or whether to use something else for 3rd and then pick it up again at 5/4.

[janainaz]

Saxon is a very solid math program and I, personally, would NOT switch. I've used Saxon since K and my son is in 5th grade and on level 7/6. Saxon is strong because it is very repetitive, and it continues to revisit previously learned concepts. They do give a lot of math problems in the upper levels (around 30 per lesson), but this is what allows the child to master and really cement the concepts in. It is very thorough.

 

I don't think math should take longer than an hour a day. Is it taking your son a long time to work through the problems? Is he understanding the concepts and doing well on his independent work? The better your ds understands the concept, the quicker he will move through the problems.

 

Is it more of a doddling issue? My ds STILL doddles, but as long as he gets his work done, I kind of leave him alone. I've got another child that I also have to dedicate time to, and I've just told my older ds that the longer it takes him to do his work, the less time he'll have to do what he wants at the end of the day. I've had days where it's just driven me crazy to watch him do math, and I've even had a few nervous breakdowns over it! But honestly, it's not worth it as long as he eventually gets it done.

 

I did have days where I set the timer and gave ds one hour to complete his work. If he did not have his stuff done, I told him we would move on to the next subject and that he could do the rest of his math at the end of the day (kind of like homework). He did not like that, and it caused him to focus and get it done. How you handle it depends on why it's taking your ds so long. I do think it's important to have him do every single problem, but many hs parents don't agree with that. You can always give him an hour, and if he's really working hard, just let him be done. It's your call - but I would not switch.

[janainaz]

~ I just want to add that I also only had ds do ONE side of the worksheet. If he missed a problem, I'd have him re-do that problem on the other side of the paper.

 

Additionally, I did not do the entire meeting section. DS knew the calendar VERY well. We also did not chart the weather, and I switched up the counting sequence, pattern sequence and clock. I'd do one of those concepts each day, not all of them EVERY single day. Unless your ds needs the practice, tweak it how it makes sense for you.

 

The word problem of the day is important and I would never leave that out.

 

My younger ds is in K and we are using Saxon 1. I do the meeting part every.single.day. I do clocks every day and money every day and the calendar every day. I take the earlier years to cement those concepts in and by 2nd and 3rd grade, we just review.

 

Good luck! :)

[RegularMom]

I agree with all of this. We, too, have used Saxon on level since K, and I wouldn't change it for anything. My dd's are SOLID in their math. My older dd went through Saxon 3 last year, and yes, it was time consuming, but I wouldn't skip it. There's a lot of essentials in there. By the end of the year, we were breaking things up into smaller pieces. And I wouldn't do math for more than an hour at a single stretch. And we rarely did the Side B's. Didn't need to.

 

We're in 5/4 this year, and it's much more manageable. But next year, my younger dd will start Saxon 3. I think there's a part of my elder dd (who's been watching her sister BREEZE through Saxon K-2) who just can't wait to see her tackle Saxon 3. :)

[Critterfixer]

Currently it takes me about an hour and a half for ds7 boys to go through their Saxon 1 lesson. We do it first thing in the morning, and I have them do only one side of the worksheet most of the time.

It does seem to take a long time to get done, but I keep reminding myself that practice is important when you are trying to learn something new.

[AlisonK]

I don't think math should take longer than an hour a day. Is it taking your son a long time to work through the problems? Is he understanding the concepts and doing well on his independent work? The better your ds understands the concept, the quicker he will move through the problems.

 

Is it more of a doddling issue?

 

Yes there is definitely a doddling issue :willy_nilly:

I have to be in the room making sure he does his work or else he is distracted by something. I have tried so hard to get the time reduced but the best we have ever done is 1 hour 20 minutes and that was like a race. Even if I am right there we still can't get the time down and it's not that he doesn't understand. Actually, the only part he struggles with are the timed fact sheets because the school I took him out of really didn't do much fact practice. He totally understands each lesson the first time I teach it.

 

Thank you all for the advice you have given so far and for the encouragement to keep persevering. It sounds like there is hope for 5/4! I love the idea from one of you about getting the sheets with problems on them. I will check into that.

 

Being that it's my first year teaching I have a hard time knowing if it's my teaching that is not as effective as it could be or something else. Your suggestions are very helpful. I have 15 more lessons in Saxon 3 so I will try some of these ideas with the rest of the book.

 

I am all ears if there are any other thoughts! :bigear:

[Brooketopia]

Thank you for this thread! I was fretting over how long it takes to do Saxon 1 each day with my 7yo. I needed to hear that it's going to be this way through Saxon 3 and will get better in 5/4!

 

We skimp on the calendar stuff because she knows it well, but we need to go over the skip counting because she forgets some of it sometimes.

 

Thanks for the suggestion to break it up...why didn't I think of that?!?!

 

I used Saxon for a sporadic year or two here and there during my school career and I always liked how the program worked, and hoped that my children would get to use it when they "went to school." Now that I'm HSing them, I was way excited to use Saxon. But it is time-intensive.

 

Our new incentive to discourage dawdling is that I plan a super great and fun activity to take place at the end of school (4:00-5:00) and if all their schoolwork is done, they get to participate in the fun activity. If they're not done, then they work on their schoolwork while everyone else does the activity. I just tried it out yesterday...7yo took her usual time to get things done and grumbled and complained the whole time. Then I got out the sand painting kit and 4yo and 3yo did sand painting while she had to still do her math work.

 

Today she finished every single subject before lunch...with extra writing lessons thrown in for fun. It's all about the incentives, I guess.

 

I wish I'd come up with that idea...but DH suggested it. :)

[RegularMom]

Regarding dawdling:

 

My older dd dawdled a lot over math, and it used to drive me crazy. She's a bit of a dreamer though, so it's just her personality I guess. But now that she's in 5/4, the way I handle dawdling is this: I give her about an hour in the morning to do her math. Whatever she hasn't finished she has to do later in the afternoon when she could be outside playing or doing something she really enjoys doing.

 

It's amazing how quickly she can finish her math when it encroaches upon her time instead of mine. :)

 

(This was harder to pull off in Saxon 1 through 3 since most of it is teacher intensive. But now that she's doing a lot of her math independently, it really works.)

[3girlssofar]

We are doing Saxon 3 this year and it takes us 1 1/2 hrs a day to get it all done too. Thanks to all the posters who said 5/4 is less intensive - I was wondering that very thing this morning.

 

Here is how we schedule our math day to make it easier. DD1 does the meeting strip the night before as part of her independent work. First thing in the morning we review her meeting strip and then go through the skip counting and other teacher-led activities. Then we do the lesson. After the lesson we do the flashcard review and she is on her own for the fact sheet. The worksheet is added to her pile of independent work and is generally done much later in the day. I check her work at the end of the day. Any problems she misses she needs to do on the back side of the sheet.

 

Moving the meeting strip to her independent work has really streamlined our math lessons. We still get the benefits of the meeting without me needing to sit through her coming up with those sentences for the number of the day!

 

Hope that helps.

[Guest SeaGrammie]

I'm new here but am a long-term Saxon user -- in the middle/upper grades. The time component in Saxon K-3 was what kept me using other programs. You will find 54 and above take way less of your time than the elementary programs. (I think they are great, too, but needed something less mom-intensive for our little ones.)