Does it matter to you if a curriculum developer doesn't have a college degree?

[angela in ohio]

:iagree: I've recently gone back to school and this is, sadly, too true. Professors also feel a need to pass or give everyone a good grade. I should have received a B in my economics class but surprisingly was given an A. I know I didn't earn it but the professor said I was one of the "top" students". There was so much extra credit given it was ridiculous. I'm working for that piece of paper but it doesn't mean as much as I first believed.

 

This is not universally true, though I don't doubt your experience.

 

Last semester I assigned three grades of "C" in a graduate class of 14 people. One was removed from the program as a result, as he was on academic probation. He needed to be removed really. I didn't delight in this by any means, but I wasn't afraid to give the students the grade they earned. The same goes for my undergraduates this semester. I don't offer extra credit. I also take my editor's pen to their papers. ;)

 

That hasn't been my experience, either. I had a wonderful, challenging education at a state university in the nineties. I recently went back to school, and I have had to work hard to get good grades (even as an Honors student in regular track classes,) and see others failing (rightly so, but they are failed.)

[regentrude]

This is not universally true, though I don't doubt your experience.

Last semester I assigned three grades of "C" in a graduate class of 14 people. One was removed from the program as a result, as he was on academic probation. He needed to be removed really. I didn't delight in this by any means, but I wasn't afraid to give the students the grade they earned. The same goes for my undergraduates this semester. I don't offer extra credit. I also take my editor's pen to their papers. ;)

 

I am glad to hear I am not the only one who does not play the grade inflation game.

I hate failing students, and it some times upsets me to the point of feeling physically ill - but every semester, about a quarter of my students will receive a D or F in my class because they have not learned enough to deserve a grade of C. Btw, every single one of them will have a large number of missed assignments, class absences, incomplete homeworks. Go figure.

[texasmama]

I am glad to hear I am not the only one who does not play the grade inflation game.

I hate failing students, and it some times upsets me to the point of feeling physically ill - but every semester, about a quarter of my students will receive a D or F in my class because they have not learned enough to deserve a grade of C. Btw, every single one of them will have a large number of missed assignments, class absences, incomplete homeworks. Go figure.

 

I literally lost sleep over the student who was removed from the program. The fact remained that he was not appropriate for a graduate program. I spent a disproportionate amount of time/energy dealing with this student and had quite a bit of contact with administration as I walked through the semester with him. In the end, this was the right decision - for him, for me, for the university and for the profession. It was hard to be the hammer, but it was my job. This semester, I have some students who will do poorly, and they have earned those grades. It is a choice - theirs, not mine. I try to remember always that these are adults, even if they are young adults.

[Mejane]

I spent a disproportionate amount of time/energy dealing with this student and had quite a bit of contact with administration as I walked through the semester with him.

 

Dd said her chem prof practically begged failing students to come in for extra help. She even offered to tutor them over vacation. Not one took her up on it. It's a shame these students don't care enough to try. I wonder why they even bother registering.

[texasmama]

Dd said her chem prof practically begged failing students to come in for extra help. She even offered to tutor them over vacation. Not one took her up on it. It's a shame these students don't care enough to try. I wonder why they even bother registering.

 

As a professor, I am always willing to do my part, but the students have to do theirs. As your dd has found, some students just aren't willing to do that. Some are capable but distracted due to the things of youth/health issues/etc. Some students aren't capable of the work, and it takes them time to arrive at this conclusion. Those are the saddest situations to me, and this was the case for the graduate student who left the program.

[regentrude]

Dd said her chem prof practically begged failing students to come in for extra help. She even offered to tutor them over vacation. Not one took her up on it. It's a shame these students don't care enough to try. I wonder why they even bother registering.

 

Yes, that is my experience as well. For my course, there are twenty hours of free learning assistance, help sessions and tutoring available each week. The students who utilize these resources are the B/C students. The students who are failing will not come. (They can't even be bothered to attend class regularly.) Some fail the same course multiple times, primarily because of non-attendance. I don't get it.

[Ester Maria]

For instance (to stay with the subject I know something about): to understand the physics I am teaching to the undergraduates well enough that I could write a textbook with well chosen examples that illustrate precisely the point I want them to illustrate, to correctly derive all theory and equations, I need to have way more physics under my belt than what I am teaching.

I think this is something which is particularly obvious in sciences and languages. This is not to say that every areas is not tricky and does not have some of its inner workings - of course it does - but I think that in those two camps, in particular, one can not even know how far "off" they are in basics if they lack specialist knowledge. I see it with languages all the time, somebody who does not know a whole system and its intertwined "network" will not be able to teach well any part of that system alone, because they will often not even know when they are making mistakes. I got to read some very, very bad Italian by people who genuinely thought their Italian was good. Often one needs to know a lot more to even see how far "off" they are.

 

And even if they are not far off in the particular things they wish to pass on, if they really care about how they do it, will they still do it better than somebody who knows the whole system and knows which connections and tricks would work better? Theoretically, such options exist, but in practice, how often it occurs? Sure, there is much trash written by professional italianists, no discussion about that. The infamous "experts". However, if we look at world-class materials, if we look at best things to learn about the field, best historical grammars, the "checkpoints" of italianists' education, best school editions of annotated Dante, best textbooks... nearly ALL of that (if not literally all of that) was written by professional italianists. While there are many bad italianists, and a few wonderful passionate amateurs, the very TOP materials both for kids and for serious scholarship, the very TOP of studies is filled with... italianists. Not amateurs. With people with high formal education in the field.

 

So, how often in practice it does occur that amateurs do a better job? The theoretical option always exists, of course. But as a general rule of the thumb, I still tend to rely on expertise because of those experiences and understanding just how tricky the inner workings of some disciplines are and how elusive to many amateurs who have not undergone a systematic study of the discipline.

BTW, EM, you know I :001_wub: you, right?

Feelings are mutual. :)

[In The Great White North]

After reading this whole thread, I have to ask: is this whole question moot or are there actually upper level textbooks written by someone without any degree at all?

 

I didn't buy much in the way of textbooks before high school, and never checked who wrote them, but I would be willing to bet they all had degrees.

 

Examples anyone?

[kiana]

I don't know what drives people to inflate their credentials, or their businesses.

 

I would be more inclined to use a product where an author admitted up front that they lacked formal academic"credentials" (if that was the case) but had developed a passion for a subject (perhaps as a result of being a home educator) and had put their mind and energies into developing a program they felt works to teach whatever subject for which they may have developed a program. I really would not have a problem with this. To the contrary, there are many ways to learn and become educated on a subject, University programs are one (potential means) but they are not an exclusive means.

 

But the "inflation" of credentials and misleading characterizations of business operations bothers me greatly.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

I would use somethnig from someone who honestly admitted that they were an autodidact, as long as I had sufficient knowledge of the field to evaluate it for myself, or had a friend do so.

 

I would not want to use anything from someone who felt the need to lie about his or her credentials.

[Murphy101]

I would use somethnig from someone who honestly admitted that they were an autodidact, as long as I had sufficient knowledge of the field to evaluate it for myself, or had a friend do so.

 

I would not want to use anything from someone who felt the need to lie about his or her credentials.

 

Well crickey! I wouldn't want to buy curriculum created by liars either!

 

Can someone PM me with these questionable providers being so carefully roundabout referenced in this thread?