MUS not rigorous enough?

[trust and obey]

I've been reading some posts that MUS is not considered rigorous enough. Do you find this to be true? I have used Alpha through Gamma and have been reasonably satisfied, but wondering if there should be more. I've thought about supplementing or switching to Singapore.

 

Any thoughts? What areas do you find MUS to be weak? Do you supplement?

 

Thanks!

[Sue G in PA]

Many who have used MUS all the way through higher math have found it to be complete. The challenge is seeing the big picture w/ MUS b/c it focuses on one topic per book and builds, whereas other programs will introduce and review several different topics in one lesson/one book (like Saxon). Some kids need the mastery (my ds10 for example) approach that MUS provides. Steven Demme speaks about each math concept building on a previous making it important for the student to have "mastery" of one topic before moving on. Some dc don't need that. They pick things up quickly and can move on quickly and do a variety of problems all in one lesson (my ds8 and dd11 who are using Saxon and thriving). It depends on your child, IMHO. How does your child learn best? Are they "math minded" or not? Do they need the mastery before moving on? Just some questions to consider. Personally, it is difficult for me to see the "big picture" with MUS although I trust more experienced users when they say that it is complete and thorough. State tests might be an issue, though. If a state test covers topics other than what MUS has covered, your dc might not be prepared. Personally, I don't care about state test. YMMV. I hope other more exp. MUS users chime in. I plan to use MUS w/ my ds10 until it no longer works. Saxon didn't work for him and the DVD aspect of MUS really appeals to him.

[abreakfromlife]

I almost asked the same question earlier today. I'm going to be starting with Beta with my 2nd grader this fall and have the same concerns.....but the TOC says that it covers other things like time and money and measurement, so I'm hoping she'll be able to learn all of that and the double-digit addition that is supposed to be the focus of the book. She's a very visual concrete learner who really needs mastery of a subject to move on and MUS seems like it will meet those needs......I am a little nervous about it tho.

[trust and obey]

 

MUS is a great foundation. This question is asked a few times a year and there are people on both sides but if the curriculum is working for your kids then it is working for your kids and you just need to release those doubts and relax.

 

 

 

That's probably good advice! Both of my ds are natural math learners and would probably do great in any curriculum we're tried. There's just so many options out there, sometimes you wonder if you've chosen the best. I've always been curious about Singapore, but there's probably a lot of wisdom in "if it's not broke, don't fix it".

 

Thanks!

[Parrothead]

I have a very young soon to be fourth grader. She is an October baby and will still be 8 when we start again in the fall. She has never been very strong in math. When I found MUS in the beginning of her 2nd grade year, she breezed through Alpha and most of Beta. During the summer all her addition and subtraction facts fell out of her ears.

 

I, being the bad mommy/teacher, didn't realize this. She was doing so well that I let her do her math first thing while I was finishing up morning chores. I didn't watch her do math for most of the year. So she is getting the problems in the book right but she is counting on her fingers for addition and subtraction and skip counting for multiplication. Ooops! I realized this about two weeks ago because she is having problems with the algorithm for multi-digit multiplication. So I've actually had to watch her work through problems to make sure she is working the algorithm correctly.

 

I don't want her to go through the next MUS book without getting the facts I thought she knew down pat. I also don't want to buy the Alpha, Beta and Gamma workbooks again. $$$ So I've bought (today) Singapore Math 1B to work on through the summer. When fall rolls around we will either work through MUS Delta very slowly and continue with the Singapore Math, or just do SM until she gets every addition/subtraction/mulitplication fact down pat.

 

So that is my story about why I'm supplementing MUS. If all those facts had stuck in dd's head, I'd continue to use MUS exclusively until we are done with school.

[EKS]

You know, I keep reading these posts about it not being rigorous enough. My son finished Zeta at the end of fourth grade, so he was advanced; however, he also took the Woodcock Johnson achievement test right after that and he scored at the 99.9th percentile for math. The grade equivalent was something like grade 16 (it was the highest grade they reported). That was because of MUS, I know this for a fact because I know what the questions were. It seems to me a 6th grader having mastered MUS Zeta taking that test would have similar results.

 

I think maybe the criticism may be directed more towards MUS in the upper grades, but I'm not sure.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I think maybe the criticism may be directed more towards MUS in the upper grades, but I'm not sure.

 

I have a degree in math and ds picks up math quickly. We've used MUS from K through Pre-Algebra. I plan to use MUS Algebra in 7th, then leave MUS for good. We'll follow up with Foerster's Algebra I in 8th grade. By lurking on the high school boards, and requesting Algebra books through ILL, I have to agree that MUS is not rigorous enough for students who want to continue in the math/science/engineering field in college.

 

I love MUS. It is weak in word problems. We have supplemented the last few years with Singapore's Challenging Word Problems. We started after Epsilon, and I wish I had started earlier.

 

You can see my review in this thread, along with testing information:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=939&highlight=sue+st+pete

 

My 2c.

[8filltheheart]

I was going to respond similarly to Sue. I don't use the elementary grades, so I have no idea about them. However, the high school math is very "arithmetic" based. I have used MUS alg/geo 4 times now and I use them as pre-alg/pre-geo b/c they present the basic math manipulations behind alg and geo. However, and this is why it is not a good fit for science/math oriented students, it does very little in the application/processing of concepts.

 

For example, the kids will definitely learn how to factor x^2 + 5x +6 = 0, but they will not be able to handle complicated word problems.

 

HTH

[trust and obey]

Thanks Sue and HTH for being so clear on what MUS weaknesses are. I have considered supplementing either with the Challenging Word Problems or doing both Singapore and MUS this year. At least I've got a few years before I have to worry about high school. Thanks for your advice.

[summer]

Math is not a difficult subject at all. But I think sometimes there is an attitude that unless someone has to work very hard to get where they are going, it must not have been complete enough and such.

 

I have extensively looked over the scope and sequence of MUS. I am sad to say, that is part of what turned me off to Singapore Math. By the time you are done with PreAlgebra in MUS, you have done much more than someone else when done with Singapore Math series through 6B is done.

 

That is just my opinion, please don't attack me over it. But my dh and I are very math oriented (dh majored in math at U of Chicago and I minored in it, both of us got 780 on our math GREs) and we both felt that Singapore Math had a habit of making simple things harder.

[Lori D.]

These are older threads on MUS and rigorous high school math from the high school board. Hope this helps. Warmly, Lori D.

 

 

 

- "High school math, which is more rigorous"

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9600&highlight=MUS+rigor

 

- "MUS Honors supplement and Dolciani and Foerster"

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10664&highlight=MUS+rigor

 

- "Move from MUS Pre-Algebra to Foersters?"

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13007&highlight=MUS+rigor

[Mesa]

I supplement MUS.. not because its lacking but because I like the repetition of Horizons math, and because initially we werent sure we'd homeschool for the long haul. I love how MUS makes math so understandable so if I had to choose just 1 program I'd choose MUS.

[WTMindy]

I taught math in public schools and I have used MUS algebra with my dd. I don't think it is a very rigorous Algebra course, although I think it is a good intro to algebra. I have not yet looked at their algebra 2 to know how that looks. Just my opinion. I think the younger grades are great if they are taught to mastery like he recommends.

[trust and obey]

Thanks Lori, for those posts. They've given me some food for thought. It seems like more people are dissatisfied with MUS starting with algebra. I don't think I'm ready to switch programs completely yet, but I'm glad to think about the direction we're headed. I'm thinking more that maybe we'll stick with MUS up to Algebra, and maybe supplement a little with the Challenging Word Problems or something.

 

Summer, thanks for your input. May I ask what math curriculum you use?

[Lori D.]

We've always tried to use more than one math throughout, in order to see math from more than one point of view. Below is what we've used with which child. Hope something here helps! Warmly, Lori D.

 

 

Older, math-minded son has used:

- Miquon

- Singapore Primary

- NEM1

- Jacobs Algebra and Geometry

 

Unsure which Algebra 2 and Consumer Math programs will use for him in the next 2 years (10th and 11th grades). We supplemented with Saxon during grades 4-7. (And once we started younger brother on MUS, older brother has always enjoyed listening in, which has made for a nice "sneaky" review for him!)

 

 

Younger, math-struggler was harder to find a fit for; in 5th grade we started him with Math-U-See, which has worked very well for him:

 

- 5th gr. = MUS old Intermediate

 

- 6th gr. = MUS Delta (skimmed it; 9 weeks); Epsilon (all; 18 weeks); Zeta (first 10 lessons; 9 weeks)

 

7th gr. = MUS Zeta (all)

supplement: Singapore 4A/B, 5A/B

 

8th gr. = MUS Pre-Algebra (all)

supplements: Singapore 5A/B, 6A/B; Keys to Decimals and Percents

 

 

Our plan for high school is to continue with MUS as the primary source for explanation, supplementing with the Jacobs Algebra and Geometry. Possibly supplement with other Keys to... booklets if needed for extra practice. Not sure yet what we'll use for Algebra 2 -- we'll see how the MUS and Jacobs combo goes. : )

[Judy in WA]

I disagree!! It may be thought of as not rigorous enough because it only teaches one topic at a time. It is a mastery program, not a spiral program.

 

MUS is one of the few programs that goes into the depth needed for true understanding.

 

I can't recommend it highly enough.

 

Not rigorous enough...phooey.

 

Judy

[Jen in DE]

I'm learning to trust that Math U See is getting it right. If I find that my kids need extra work in a certain area, I just go to the website and grab extra pages, or give them a worksheet from a general workbook for the age. It always amazes me how much they really are getting it.

Jen