my friend's daughter

[happycc]

Well her father wants me to stop homeschooling her using the TWTM method and instead focus on BARON's SAT book.

 

So I had her take the diagnostic test which put her in a bad bad mood. She didn;t like the fact she couldn't study for it. BUt at least I have a baseline to work with.

Then I am having her place the math formulas and such on flashcards.

I will make copies of all the directions for each section so she can memorize them and not feel compelled to read them during the test.

I will have her place the tactics on flashcards and have her go through the text exercises.

 

Does anyone else have ideas? She scored a 1680 for her diagnostic test. cr=660, math=400, writing=670..not bad since she hasn;t been in school since Sept and having gone to seven different schools.

Her math was really bad. Looks like we have to review a lot of basic math with her.

[tex-mex]

Well her father wants me to stop homeschooling her using the TWTM method and instead focus on BARON's SAT book.

 

So I had her take the diagnostic test which put her in a bad bad mood. She didn;t like the fact she couldn't study for it. BUt at least I have a baseline to work with.

Then I am having her place the math formulas and such on flashcards.

I will make copies of all the directions for each section so she can memorize them and not feel compelled to read them during the test.

I will have her place the tactics on flashcards and have her go through the text exercises.

 

Does anyone else have ideas? She scored a 1680 for her diagnostic test. cr=660, math=400, writing=670..not bad since she hasn;t been in school since Sept and having gone to seven different schools.

Her math was really bad. Looks like we have to review a lot of basic math with her.

*bump* :lurk5:

[Nicole M]

Well her father wants me to stop homeschooling her using the TWTM method and instead focus on BARON's SAT book.

 

So I had her take the diagnostic test which put her in a bad bad mood. She didn;t like the fact she couldn't study for it. BUt at least I have a baseline to work with.

Then I am having her place the math formulas and such on flashcards.

I will make copies of all the directions for each section so she can memorize them and not feel compelled to read them during the test.

I will have her place the tactics on flashcards and have her go through the text exercises.

 

Does anyone else have ideas? She scored a 1680 for her diagnostic test. cr=660, math=400, writing=670..not bad since she hasn;t been in school since Sept and having gone to seven different schools.

Her math was really bad. Looks like we have to review a lot of basic math with her.

 

You know, those scores are not that bad. Math, yes, very low, but a kid can bring up math scores by a hundred points or so without killing themselves. Have you looked at that Kahn Academy site? I haven't used it, but it's free. My son used Chalkdust Math SAT prep and brought his scores out of the toilet, so it can be done.

 

I guess what concerns me is that this business put her in a bad, bad mood. Is she on board with this switch in focus? Was she only in a bad mood because she couldn't study? Have you asked her how she'd like to approach this? Also, when is she scheduled to take the SAT?

[happycc]

as emotionally disturbed...

 

anyways she is very negative about having to be told to do anything she doesn't want to do

 

she usually has a sour puss look and doesn;t have any friends

 

she rarely smiles

 

she says she wants to kill and stab people if she doesn't like something they do or say such as a hairstyle or if they are better than they are academically or look better than her

 

in general she is a negative person

 

anyways she was upset in general having to SAT Prep....perhaps transitions, perhaps it doesn;t interest her, perhaps she doesn't like the fact that she has studied the material, perhaps she knows she has wholes in her education...

 

she says she doesn;t want to go to college because she doesn;t like to do assignments etc and says she wants a good job

 

SAT not scheduled per se only that she may be placed in a residential treatment home eventually.

 

I think she is just negative because it was what her father wants her to do..Her father i have to say is rather critical and controlling. Mostly controlling. Dictating her future a lot it seems to me. He is also not decisive and he changes his mind a lot. Not consistent and also really stubborn.

 

I was rather frustrated with him too with changing up our plans. Because I had her work on things she like to do like working with tadpoles, frogs and nature study stuff.

[Nicole M]

Oh, gosh. This is such a hard spot for you to be in! I'm so sorry, for you and for her.

 

Is there any way that you could continue to do nature stuff in addition to the SAT prep?

 

Wow. This is a very upsetting situation. So sorry.

[Heather in VA]

I am so very sorry you are in this situation. It sounds brutal for both you and the student. I don't have a lot of advice but I do wonder why it's one or the other with the SAT prep and schoolwork. Obviously she needs to increase her math score and just doing the prep book won't really do much for her (it might increase her score a bit but not as well as actually learning the math). Is her father just barking these commands or is he discussing plans with you? How did you end up in this situation?

 

Heather

[swimmermom3]

Is she currently in counseling? If not, it may not matter what you do.

[Nicole M]

Is she currently in counseling? If not, it may not matter what you do.

 

Yes. I was hoping you'd weigh in, Lisa, because this is exactly what I feared. This is a no-win situation without help.

[tex-mex]

Is she currently in counseling? If not, it may not matter what you do.

:iagree: If the dx is mental illness... the girl needs intervention and meds at the very least. I would think some type of life skill like how to interview and work with fellow employees is key. Or apprenticeship if she doesn't want to go to college.

 

She sounds brilliant but very disturbed. If I were the father, I'd make sure she got help with her mental situation before the SAT. Once she is 18, all bets are off trying to control her legally (i.e. ACLU).

[tex-mex]

Is her father just barking these commands or is he discussing plans with you? How did you end up in this situation?

 

Heather

I was wondering the same thing. :confused:

[Teachin'Mine]

How old is she, what grade is she in, and what has she done for math and what is she currently doing?

 

I agree that she needs to be getting professional help as the academics are second to that. Regarding bringing up her math score, a lot depends on what math she's had and how well she's understood it. Prep books are probably not the best place to start.

 

I agree with you that it makes no sense to drop all her school work to do SAT prep. There's no reason it can't be added to what she does, but her scores, other than math, are good.

 

:grouphug:

[MyThreeSons]

Her math was really bad. Looks like we have to review a lot of basic math with her.

 

It may very well be that her basic math is fine. The SAT math test isn't like regular standardized math tests. It doesn't test your math knowledge as much as it tests your reasoning ability. And many curricula don't emphasize reasoning.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she tells you there were some questions that just really threw her because she had never seen anything like them before. And then there's the whole grid-in section. If you don't follow the rules, you can have the right answer but it won't count.

[Kalmia]

My dh has extensive experience in test prep. I'll ask him his opinion when he gets back from taking ds to swim.

 

First of all, I think you are a truly caring and compassionate person.

 

Secondly, I agree with the posters that say counseling is necessary, but since providing it is not your responsibility and getting through to the father will be a challenging process, I think in in meantime you should encourage her interest in nature. I mentioned before that time in nature can be emotionally healing. Some psychologists even integrate nature experiences in their therapy. There should be time in the day (lunch at the pond? as a reward for work done?) to indulge her in this one expressed interest.

[rlugbill]

I agree with other posters- sounds like she has psychological issues that need to be addressed. Counseling would certainly be helpful for her. This is actually more important than any test scores. If she doesn't learn to deal with her issues, she won't be able to hold a job, maintain a relationship, etc.

 

As for SAT prep, I would suggest getting a couple of the SAT prep books. The official one from the college boards is good, as is another one- Gruber's, I think is the name of it. Kaplan, Princeton Review, etc. are all good and have lots of practice questions. That's what you really need- lots of practice questions and practice tests.

 

Just read through a practice question and work through it with her. Then, do this for another one. Then, you can switch to a different SAT test section and work through more test questions.

 

I also suggest having her do a section of the test- takes about 25 min., then going over the answers with her. Using real SAT questions is more effective than trying to teach the material. She will learn it in the context of the actual SAT question.

 

Once a month or so, she should do an entire practice test. Time it and then score it and go over any questions she missed. If she misses a lot, she can retake the same test, so she gets in the habit of answering questions correctly.

 

You will see her scores on practice tests go up with time. Her score on the actual SAT will be about the same as her scores on the practice tests. The key then is to improve her scores on the practice tests to ensure a good result on the actual SAT.

 

The SAT is an aptitude test, not really an achievement test. It tests higher-order thinking skills more than knowledge.

 

So, contrary to what many people believe, just studying the normal subjects doesn't really prepare you for the SAT. Studying for the SAT prepares you for the SAT.

 

I studied for the LSAT (law school entrance exam). Took every practice test I could find to practice on. It raised my score a lot (to 98th percentile), so I went from being an average candidate to getting admitted at some of the top law schools in the country even though my GPA wasn't very good (3.2) and my undergraduate school was only an average college.

 

I'm not trying to brag- quite the opposite. I am saying that I probably got admitted to some top schools over more qualified people because I knew how to study better. Practice does make perfect on the SAT. Doing lots of practice questions and practice tests will help raise scores a lot.

[happycc]

No she is not in counseling...I told her father she needs to be in counseling and I would support him with that. Apparently she has been told by bio mom and other family members not to and the young girl rejects counselling. He said he has tried counseling for years before and to no avail. In fact her own biological mother chose to forgo visitations with her so bio mom didn;t have to attend counseling herself or family counseling. This young lady is missing a mom severely. She has cried and told me so. Her father has forbade her to call her mother and grandmother. He has full physical and joint custody. She has told me that she is making me a surrogate mother. I can;t possibly as I have seven children of my own. It is awkward because her father is still very very involved which is good.

 

She was recently 5150ed hence when she was pulled out of school in Sept and then she was 5250ed or something like that. THen she tried to be reintegrated back in school and that did not work out and the father had a falling out with family members who disagreed with him. She was then sent to North Carolina Trails program basically a program for kids who are into drugs etc or who knows. She is not into drugs or alcohol, she is not a delinquent, she is not interested in sex, she dresses modestly (and is in fact teased for looking like a grandma)...

 

Now it was recommended to send her to Alpine academy which is some kind of residential treatment center out in Utah. But the school district refuses to pay for her treatment even though they say she is emotionally disturbed. They just want her to return back to school and the father is uncomfortable with that. I would have to agree with him. She should not be left alone more than 30 -60 minutes. She doesn;t have common sense like taking off her jacket when hot or opening windows or doors to prevent hyperthermia. Dad has a lawyer to "fight" the school which seems pointless when she is nearly 17 years old.

 

I am sneaking nature study in there. I cannot have her working on SAT all day long. That is crazy.HOwever she doesn;t like the sun because it makes her darker and she doesn;t like to draw. Although I thinking drawing is very therapeutic. Like I said she complains about everything.

 

The father basically sent her to me to basically babysit her. There were no specific instructions other than to give her no access to phones and computers and to never leave her alone. BUt to babysit a 16yrs old is nuts. I needed ways to structure her life and academics, nature study, life skills, bible study are some of the ways. I would like her to attend counseling, group counseling anything..even social skills classes, day treatment program....anything. But dad has not made any moves as he is waiting for the school district to respond with an IEP. And then what..i honestly don;t think the school district will give her the structure she truly needs. It is a waste of time. ANyways I came up with a little curriculum to help structure her days and make her feel productive. SHe was very excited about learning new things such as Latin and Critical THinking. But then her father started saying he wants her to study for SAT since she wont be getting any credit for what she is doing with me. I told him to get sign her up with some kind of homeschooling charter school or something so she can get credit but he wants her to stay with the school district perhaps have her test out of high school somehow. I have no idea.

 

We did take her to the tidepools last Sunday and she complained about that.

I can't seem to figure her out.

 

If I left anything out let me know.

 

How did i get stuck in doing this...she is the great niece of man i am friends with. He felt I would be great at doing this. I don;t have any degree in counseling, therapy, education...nada He just knows how I have been with my own kids and with my husbands kids.

 

Her other interest is reading books such as Scarlet Letter.

 

This week, her father was not able to get her up in time to get here on monday and today and has kept her.

He seems to have a problem getting her up or so he claims. The times she has spent the night over here....not a problem. She is just sluggish and needs to be reminded...The last couple of weeks he arrived late with her on days she slept at home. I don;t know how he is able to keep his job

Edited April 14, 2011 by happycc

[tex-mex]

No she is not in counseling...I told her father she needs to be in counseling and I would support him with that. Apparently she has been told by bio mom and other family members not to and the young girl rejects counselling. He said he has tried counseling for years before and to no avail. In fact her own biological mother chose to forgo visitations with her so bio mom didn;t have to attend counseling herself or family counseling. This young lady is missing a mom severely. She has cried and told me so. Her father has forbade her to call her mother and grandmother. He has full physical and joint custody. She has told me that she is making me a surrogate mother. I can;t possibly as I have seven children of my own. It is awkward because her father is still very very involved which is good.

 

She was recently 5150ed hence when she was pulled out of school in Sept and then she was 5250ed or something like that. THen she tried to be reintegrated back in school and that did not work out and the father had a falling out with family members who disagreed with him. She was then sent to North Carolina Trails program basically a program for kids who are into drugs etc or who knows. She is not into drugs or alcohol, she is not a delinquent, she is not interested in sex, she dresses modestly (and is in fact teased for looking like a grandma)...

 

Now it was recommended to send her to Alpine academy which is some kind of residential treatment center out in Utah. But the school district refuses to pay for her treatment even though they say she is emotionally disturbed. They just want her to return back to school and the father is uncomfortable with that. I would have to agree with him. She should not be left alone more than 30 -60 minutes. She doesn;t have common sense like taking off her jacket when hot or opening windows or doors to prevent hyperthermia. Dad has a lawyer to "fight" the school which seems pointless when she is nearly 17 years old.

 

I am sneaking nature study in there. I cannot have her working on SAT all day long. That is crazy.HOwever she doesn;t like the sun because it makes her darker and she doesn;t like to draw. Although I thinking drawing is very therapeutic. Like I said she complains about everything.

 

The father basically sent her to me to basically babysit her. There were no specific instructions other than to give her no access to phones and computers and to never leave her alone. BUt to babysit a 16yrs old is nuts. I needed ways to structure her life and academics, nature study, life skills, bible study are some of the ways. I would like her to attend counseling, group counseling anything..even social skills classes, day treatment program....anything. But dad has not made any moves as he is waiting for the school district to respond with an IEP. And then what..i honestly don;t think the school district will give her the structure she truly needs. It is a waste of time. ANyways I came up with a little curriculum to help structure her days and make her feel productive. SHe was very excited about learning new things such as Latin and Critical THinking. But then her father started saying he wants her to study for SAT since she wont be getting any credit for what she is doing with me. I told him to get sign her up with some kind of homeschooling charter school or something so she can get credit but he wants her to stay with the school district perhaps have her test out of high school somehow. I have no idea.

 

We did take her to the tidepools last Sunday and she complained about that.

I can't seem to figure her out.

 

If I left anything out let me know.

 

How did i get stuck in doing this...she is the great niece of man i am friends with. He felt I would be great at doing this. I don;t have any degree in counseling, therapy, education...nada He just knows how I have been with my own kids and with my husbands kids.

 

Her other interest is reading books such as Scarlet Letter.

 

This week, her father was not able to get her up in time to get here on monday and today and has kept her.

He seems to have a problem getting her up or so he claims. The times she has spent the night over here....not a problem. She is just sluggish and needs to be reminded...The last couple of weeks he arrived late with her on days she slept at home. I don;t know how he is able to keep his job

What you have described is a young lady dealing with a serious mental illness. As a schoolteacher, I used to be in charge of my (site) public school's IEPs. Please know that by law, schools cannot diagnose. The term, "emotionally disturbed" can mean anything under the umbrella from Bipolar I, Bipolar II, schizophrenia, manic-depressive, or more. The father of that girl needs to get her to a PSYCHIATRIST to get her officially dx'ed before the age of 18.

 

Once she is 18, legally the parents or guardians cannot force her to do anything. If she doesn't want to take her meds. She doesn't want to apply for assistance. She doesn't want to see a psychiatrist. You cannot admit her into a treatment or residential facility against her will. All bets are off.

 

Based on her dx by a psychiatrist (who is authorized to prescribe meds) -- the father needs to look into county agencies for programs for his daughter. A group that meets once a week for sports or outings. Legally, the school may place her in an SDC (life skills) classroom or program up until the age of 21. However, after that, she is in "limbo" without any help or placement programs. Which is why this is the time for the father to get her plugged into a county or private program. He needs to create a legal papertrail -- beyond the school IEP -- should he have to go to court to prove she is unable to take care of herself. Again, the court may rule in her favor thanks to the ACLU rights of the patient law passed in the 70's.

 

The last thing anyone needs is this young lady adrift and lost. What will happen to her if the father dies? Will you be forced to look after her more than one or two years? Why is she not being placed in some workforce program where she can learn social cues and job skills? I would hate to see her have another breakdown and have her in a 72 hour psych ward (5150 hold) as this really never solves the original problem - - she is mentally ill. She needs meds and counseling. I've seen long drawn out lawsuits between parents and school districts over who will pay for expensive residential programs for very disturbed students -- rarely have school districts paid for it. Basically, whoever has the $$$ to pay a high powered lawyer wins. And it takes a long time for placement. She is 17??? It may be too late.

 

ETA: Be careful if she has a "crisis" in front of your kids. Do you have a plan on what to do if this happens? She needs a trained professional who can deal in a group setting how to handle this, IMO. (My sister is Bipolar but was not officially dx'ed 'til she was institutionalized at 28 years. Public schools called her "emotionally disturbed". My SIL is paranoid schizophrenic and we've been thru this. Hang in there. :grouphug:)

Edited April 14, 2011 by tex-mex

[FlockOfSillies]

Poor kid needs the Lord. What a mess she's got on her hands. She sounds very angry and powerless.

 

The dad sounds clueless and imperious at the same time. Tell him that Latin and Critical Thinking *are* SAT prep. He wants her ready for the SAT? Great! Tell him to let you do it your way. Go ahead and get a prep book or two, but so much of SAT prep is vocab and math. Latin is excellent SAT prep for vocab.

[regentrude]

I agree with what everybody else said about the counseling.

 

But I'd also like to raise another point:

if the father sends the girl to you to keep her and watch her, he needs to let YOU do what YOU find best and necessary. I find his behavior very irritating. If he places the daily responsibilities on you, he needs to let you do you job without constant interference and accept your judgment about educating her. You might need to make this clear to him- because you have your own family to consider as well. If somebody is asking such a HUGE favor of a friend, then he should refrain from micromanaging.

[FlockOfSillies]

:iagree:

[elegantlion]

:grouphug: What a tough situation.

 

My question would by why SAT Prep? What good is a decent score on a SAT going to do this poor child.

 

If she can't be left alone without supervision, I can assume college is not the horizon. Why the push for the SAT?

[happycc]

in one and half years so she can get to college.

 

I don;t know what else to do....

 

He didn;t show up with her on MOnday, not on Wednesday or Thursday but today....he took her to work on MOnday, wednesday but not yesterday and apparently she had offended a coworker of the father and he went and told the father she was being rude and he needs to teach her better.. No duh! Apparently father just laughed the man off.

 

Today I just let her have as much nature time as possible. She seemed to need it. Her dad again wanted her to SAT prep--he calls it more bang for the buck or else everything else is just busywork for her... huh?

 

I didn;t even know she was coming today until 8;30am in the morning and he called to say he was in our neighborhood and dropping her off.

[happycc]

by a psychiatrist while 5150ed/5250 and when she was sent to Trail Carolina some kind of nature based therapeutic place. I cant really say that Trail Carolina did any good.

 

Still dad is not signing her up with counseling perhaps he is waiting for the school or pay or provide or he may not be able to fund it at all.

 

No meds because again bio mom and grandmother told her not to and she is adamant against it.

[FlockOfSillies]

What would give her more bang for the buck is sitting down with SCHOOLWORK -- ANY SCHOOLWORK -- instead of being schlepped to work with Dad!!!!!!!

 

Truly, the dad is a bigger problem than the kid.

[StephanieZ]

Unless this kid's father is paying you very well, and covering all expenses, and you actually want this job. . .

 

I'd tell him to pound sand. . .

 

and if I were feeling generous, I'd hand him a list of numbers for private schools/boarding schools/hourly tutors/nanny placement services. . . whatever.

 

Really, if you're doing this as a kindness, then I'd just set my limits, "This is what I am willing to do; . . .."

 

He says BLAH BLAH BLAH. . .

 

So, you repeat, "This is what I am willing to do. . . ."

 

Come up with a short, clear phrase and repeat as needed. Do not vary it. Just repeat it. Make your self a cup of tea to sip while he sputters. Maybe do a sink full of dishes as well. . .

[Heather in VA]

I'm going to agree with Stephanie here. You are a dear, sweet person to want to help this girl. She obviously needs it. But it seems her dad wants to be sure she doesn't get any kind of effective help. Unfortunately I have some experience with people like him. They are absolutely 100% sure they know better than anyone else even if they have no real experience in the situation, if all logic reasoning says different, if experts say different. None of that matters. They are always right. And based on this 'always right' mentality, they issue ultimatums of behavior for those around them. The ultimatums don't require any different behavior from him nor does he have to deal with the consequences of his requirements being stupid. He just sits on his pedestal and commands those around him.

 

People like that are very annoying, but in cases like this they can be very dangerous as well. Setting aside the obvious damage he's doing to his daughter, I am concerned for your family. Just the constant 'is she coming today, whats going to happen next' is disruptive. But what happens when all of this blows up (which it's bound to do). What happens if she takes the SATs again and bombs the math again or doesn't get into college or has some other academic failure that makes the dad upset? He could decide to blame you. What if he sues you? Just because you are right and having done anything wrong doesn't mean it wouldn't have a horrible affect on your family. Its very expensive to defend against a law suit, even a very stupid one. He isn't going to step up and say he was wrong so he'll look for an outlet to blame.

 

And what about the state? She's under 18 so do you have requirements to report any kind of schooling or testing etc? It sounds like for the most part she isn't doing any real schooling. Is that even legal at her age?

 

I think it's time to stand up and say 'I will help her and this is the way I will do it. If you'd rather her do something else, find someone else'.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Heather

[mjbucks1]

I think dad is manipulating you and his daughter. Heather and Stephanie are right. YOU set the limits on what YOU are willing to do...otherwise he needs to find someone else willing to "babysit". And he needs to get her to your house CONSISTENTLY. Anything you are doing with her isn't going to work if she is only there part of the week. I think you are really a wonderful person for offering to do this. I pray that you can have a conversation with her dad and work out some of these issues :).

Blessings,

Michelle

[2cents]

It sounds like she was originally placed in your school because of the good that you could do for her based on your instincts. You were schooling her in a way that you felt would most motivate her and she was responding...then the dad steps in a decides that is not good enough. I have a real problem with people that as another poster has said, sit on their pedestals and issue orders.

 

In changing your methods of schooling this girl, he has made the time you spend with her less satisfying and he sets you up for dealing with her blame, anger and frustration. He has put you in a very unfair and potentially dangerous situation (given her stability issues). Personally, I would tell him that your teaching methods and approach are not up for discussion and that if he wants to continue with the arrangement that there will be some changes. He needs to let you do the school AND he needs to get her to school consistently. I feel bad for this girl. I think the father is a big problem.:grouphug:

[happycc]

since he started not bringing her here...

 

She is not willing to really do anything that is suggested.

 

She just wants to sleep and do her own thing which is essentially nothing.

 

So I will tell her father that I will not be homeschooling/tutoring her but rather just babysitting her.

 

I will just leave out her textbooks/books and schedule and if she chooses to follow it then so be it. If not then she can;t blame anyone but herself.

 

Last night, I had this tutor come over. He is a professional math tutor and has been working with my oldest son who is in ps high school.

 

Anyways, I had her work with her just a bit and he said she is really gifted (a mathematician) but she is not motivated and always has some kind of excuse blaming everything on everyone else. He gave her some ideas on how she could "catch" up with her peers if she wanted to by focusing on a certain aspect in her algebra 2 textbook rather than this other one. TOday, I gave her a choice as to what subject she wants and she said math but she chose the book the tutor said wasn;t as effective. It is almost she wants to self sabatoge herself. I really honestly wanted this situation to work.

I am only asking $125/week to work with her and he got the first month free.

I set up a playdate for her with a friend that she met at the church (who she likes). She wanted to bring her kindle in and i have basically told her I didn;t really want her kindle in the car or when visiting others because she goes in her own world. Her reasoning why can;t she if my own daughters are allowed to have cell phones and such. I had to take the kindle from her and she kept pulling it back.

 

But my daughters are not socially awkward. How can I convey this to her?