Reading Issues - Please Help

[OrganicAnn]

We took my DD to a lady who is a reading tutor to have her tested.

 

Background: DD just turned 7. She has dyspraxia fine motor skills only. She has a lot of difficulty writing. She has ADD. She has a high IQ.

 

The reading tutor comes highly recommended for two mothers I know. She has helped kids who failed everywhere else. One mother characterized it as "life changing".

 

So the tutor indicates that DD needs remedial help with reading. She thinks she is about beginning 1st grade/Kindergarten level. When she should be more of middle/end of 1st grade level. She listed several specific issues that she has. It has always been difficult to teach her reading. She does not seem dyslexic or have eye issues (we had her tested).

 

Our choices A)to have the reading tutor work with her 4 days a week for an hour to hour + 15 minutes. She lives about 20 to 30 minutes away from us. So that's about 2 hours each day. She indicated that she will not keep tutoring DD if she thinks she is not making progress with her or if she gets caught up to grade level. She seems very honest in this regard.

 

B) Or we can hire a person we know who is an elementary school teacher for the summer. Who lives closer, but isn't an expert in reading.

C) Or we can do what we are currently doing, which doesn't seem to be working.

 

My DH thinks we should go with B. He didn't think DD was that much behind. I am so worried that I think we should go with A. It would be a sacrifice - mainly of time. I am so worried that we are going to struggle along for another year and then we will have to go to the reading tutor only a year later and further behind. We both think C is not a good choice.

 

Any wisdom on how to make this choice?

 

Should we consult with someone else? We do not know anyone else that we could ask.

[PeterPan]

Well what method is this amazing reading tutor going to use? Can you do it yourself? Why is the only answer to have sessions 4 days a week??? Can she teach you a method and give you homework?

 

On the eyes, you had her checked by a regular optometrist or developmental optometrist?

 

Our VT (vision therapy) place also does PACE cognitive therapy. Basically they combine working memory with language arts and other content, working on building the child's ability to learn in whatever modality is NOT working for them currently. Our place got into it because the lead eye doc's dc (homeschooled) couldn't read, not for anything they tried. So there definitely can be a connection between working memory and language and learning to read. PACE is shockingly expensive, and I'm not sure all places are equal. Our VT place has been doing it a long time, and it's actually the lead therapist who does the PACE therapy. She's sort of this uber-knowledgeable therapy person who crosses over and integrates all kinds of things (pace, working memory, sports vision, learning, etc.). Amazing. And for all that, they won't start PACE until the person has dealt with any vision, sensory (OT), etc. problems.

 

I think you're right to be concerned, but I'd make sure you have the most efficient answer. If you're saying dyspraxia, has she been evaluated by an OT? Did she also have sensory stuff? Did they do OT to chill that? Did you look into IM or other things for working memory? PACE also works on working memory. In fact they tried to use some of the PACE worksheets with my dd as part of our VT, and she couldn't do them, not even at the simplest level. They just required more working memory than where she could be pushed to at the time. They wanted her to do more OT to improve the sensory stuff and see if that would remove some blocks to let her move forward on working memory.

[Mandamom]

I'm a reading tutor and there are very few 6-7 year olds that I'll work with for more than 30 minutes at a time, and add in the ADHD and I wouldn't recommend it. I have been in several situations where I have an active or inattentive 6 year old for an hour it ends up being with a lot of breaks which makes it really about 45 minutes of productive time. Some of the students I ask to see 2-3 times per week for 30 minutes at a time for a while at which point I cut back to 1-2 so as to keep the skills.

 

My other questions are the ones that OhElizabeth asked so I won't repeat them.

 

I am all for going with a good tutor as soon as you realize you need help but that's a lot of time to give up in a day for who knows how long.

 

Maybe you can try the tutoring for 2 weeks and then take a break and see where your daughter is

[Dobela]

We hired a reading tutor for ds that was a 4 day a week commitment, 1 hour a day. Plus homework daily. She was very clear about her method however and gave us a very clear timeline of what to expect, how long students typically took to complete the program she used (Scottish Rite for dyslexics Flying High), her credentials, and so on. She told us 4 days a week because that is how the program was written for success in the Scottish Rite clinics. However, some weeks we went 5 days a week and sessions might last well over an hour. We had homework every day that took at least 30 minutes of home time. Before she began working with ds she gave detailed reading evals so she would very specifically know his strengths and weaknesses. She asked us to commit to the entire program for best results. For ds it wasn't a matter of getting him 'up to grade level', it was getting him as high as we can go using a proven program. She started him at the very beginning with letter sound identification and moved all the way to multisyllable words. We worked out a deal where we paid $365 every month, followed the public school calendar, except summers, and paid for all of the materials ds would need (the most expensive workbook was only about $15). the tutor predicted a commitment of 2 years based on her most severely effected students. Ds completed it in 18 months.

 

I say all of this to say

 

1. You need to know how long of a commitment you will be making. Define 'grade level'. What if she can't read next year? Why stop at the grade level if she is capable of moving further ahead? How will she know that dd isn't progressing? What would happen after that? How long will she allow dd to not progress before she stops the lessons?

 

2. What program is the tutor using? Many in our area were using those very similar to public school programs or just use Abeka in a very intense way. They would have never worked as my ds needed a nontraditional approach to learning to read. Even though he wasn't dyslexic, the dyslexic program was a great match.

 

3. Can you get other references? I would ask other families the pros and cons of their experiences with this tutor.

 

4. Have you looked at atlaread.org or Barton Reading and Spelling for tutors? Have you looked for other options in general?

 

5. Who checked your dd's vision? I had an optometrist and 2 opthamologists tell me nothing was wrong with my son's vision. They were wrong. He had serious vision issues that included tracking, convergence, and depth. For more information, read the signs and symptoms page at www.covd.org. We went from having a diagnosis of dyslexia to being told he never had dyslexia after he completed vision therapy.

 

6. I would not use an elementary teacher that isn't a reading specialist. I am one of those. I know some reading techniques but those are all for traditional learners. Plus, many elementary teachers just follow whatever is in the teacher manual that is handed to them. You may very likely need someone that has varied experiences and can think out of the box. Even with my special ed background I was at a huge loss with my own son.

 

I understand your concerns and the panic that can grip you as you watch your child struggle to learn to read. But jumping into the wrong tutor or the wrong therapy can cause more problems down the line, and waste your time. Once we decided to hire a reading tutor it actually took me a few months to find one that was the best fit for ds. There was this one sweet lady using Barton that I seriously considered. But I realized that ds was going to be a complicated case and eventually chose the tutor with the most experience and credientials. It was the right choice.

 

For your consideration:

Finding a good reading tutor

What kind of tutor

Questions to ask a tutor

[OrganicAnn]

The reading tutor does very thorough phonics. She has a special ed background and is supposed to be a good teacher. She doesn't do anything magical and doesn't promise anything magical. But I guess she is just more experienced working with kids who have reading difficulties. She finds that it works best with an intense hour of tutoring at least four days a week. She worked this way for many years. There is also homework in addition to the 4 hours a week. She also expressed concern about DD and ADD and working for an hour. She doesn't want to set something up with DD that will not work for her. Our goal is "at least" grade level. (and that is why she told us that she wouldn't just keep working with her indefinitely). She also talked about the number of hours it would probably require.

 

Can I do it myself? Well obviously not well enough. My DD is the master of avoiding what she isn't good at.

 

We've had her eyes tested with a pediatric ophthalmologist. I had tracking issues as a child and I'm very aware of how this can cause reading issues. We discussed before hand the issue with the Ped Ophthalmologist and discuss it thoroughly after she was tested. She looked for convergence and tracking and so on. So I feel this is not "the issue". But it is something that I am on alert for. If nothing works, we will circle back to eyes to see if it is something that was missed. She has yearly check ups.

 

Yes we have had OT. She has some sensory issues. Our insurance doesn't pay for it, but we had some initial therapy and have a list of various exercise and activities to work on.

 

What is IM?

 

We've also tried some Listening Therapy. We also have the program where you are on a balance board and catch/throw balls or bean bags. She is not on meds for ADD. We will begin talking to her Pediatrician about this topic. We do give her Omega 3 vitamins.

 

It is giving me lots to think about.

 

I think she uses her own program/techniques. I also get the impression from one of the other moms, that this lady gets all the really difficult reading issues. When all the others fail, they come to her.

 

Thanks for responding.

Edited April 7, 2011 by OrganicAnn

[ElizabethB]

You may be able to do it yourself after you watch a few lessons!

 

Most homeschool moms of my students can take over quickly.

 

I also agree with Mandamom, none of my young students can last that long. If they come for an hour, they work for 25 minutes, then 5 minutes of phonics game, then a 10 minute break, then 10 or 15 minutes more work, then phonics games.

 

My student with apraxia cannot even last that long. He needs a break after 5 minutes. I now combine him with my son and work a few minutes with each of them. (They are friends, and the student likes to see my son struggling through things he used to struggle with but has now mastered.)

 

What have you tried? Some things work better than others depending on the underlying problem. All of my students have been helped by nonsense words and Webster's Speller, but my apraxia student is also especially helped with diacritically marked prints. Some of my students are especially helped with spelling, especially oral spelling. All of them do better with large uppercase words on the whiteboard to start, it helps to not be squinting at tiny letters when doing something that is difficult for you already.

[OrganicAnn]

We tried your phonics game (with nonsense words) Elizabeth and you never heard so much whining and complaining. You would have thought I was torturing her. Come on. Its a game.

 

I'm going to just have to think about or just let it go for a few days. It is really upsetting me. I think most of all because DH and I are not seeing eye to eye about it.

 

Thanks again.

[PeterPan]

Well I hate to say it, but I'd still go get the evaluation by the developmental optometrist. They can do a regular eval and simply screen for the problems. If nothing shows up on the screenings, they stop. If something shows up, they go further. My dd never could sound out words till we did VT. She could read btw, because we had done SWR from the beginning (lots and lots and lots of SWR, ugh and double ugh). I'm also not a fan of "phonics." She's using word families? A OG-style program? What is she using? It needs to be something in that OG-family of programs, something that works very heavily on the sound to written correlation. Frankly, I think the reason my dd learned to read was because of the flashcards SWR had us make with all the words. Have you tried sight words with her? Remember, at age 10, reading with ease and incredibly good comprehension, my dd could *not* sound out words. She totally read by visual memory. She knew the words and recognized them because we had listened to audio books so much in her younger years. So a plain old sound it out approach to phonics MAY NOT get you there.

 

IM = Interactive Metronome. Some OT's, SLP's etc. do it. It can help with motor control, working memory, and other magical things.

 

Have you actually tried SWR or an OG-style program with her yet? Have you done the pre-test for Barton? I'm all for bringing in outside help when you need it, but I was just checking to see if you had exhausted all your resources yet for things you could implement yourself. I'm wondering what that Barton pre-test would show up, just by looking at her ability to hear sounds and establish a sound-written connection. She may have issues you haven't even identified yet that this tutor isn't qualified to handle. I would start doing some pre-tests like that and sort out some of these issues for yourself to figure out what's WRONG. You can't fix the problem till you identify it. If this tutor only has phonics in her bag of tricks, she may not be able to get you there. Sure you can brute force push some kids into reading via phonics, but that doesn't mean you really solved their problems. That would be like saying forceps make a good birthing experience. :( Then you come back a few years later and ask why the kid still doesn't like to read, doesn't read for pleasure, doesn't spell well. He brute force learned via phonics (my dh is like this), but it didn't address the deeper problems enough to enable them to APPLY it or get better. My dd outreads my phonics-taught dh by lightyears, and frankly she probably outreads me, especially now that she has done the VT. OG-based programs, ones going back to the sound-written correlation, programs making sure the kids actually HEAR the sounds and can distinguish them (LiPS, the early level of AAS, etc.).

 

You might google gander publishing that does so many programs like Verbalizing & Visualizing and LiPS and whatnot. You want to see what issues these curricula are tackling to see if any of them are issues that apply to your dc.

[PeterPan]

http://www.ganderpublishing.com/LiPS.html

 

Back up and look at something like this.

[ElizabethB]

We tried your phonics game (with nonsense words) Elizabeth and you never heard so much whining and complaining. You would have thought I was torturing her. Come on. Its a game.

 

I'm going to just have to think about or just let it go for a few days. It is really upsetting me. I think most of all because DH and I are not seeing eye to eye about it.

 

Thanks again.

 

:grouphug:

[Dobela]

I would go to a behavioral optometrist as well. I found mine thru covd.org. Others have theirs thru internet searches, word of mouth.

 

WHat your pediatric opthamologist didn't tell you is that most opthamologists don't believe in vision therapy. On Tuesday I took my dd for her annual opthamolgy check up. I asked if she would be a good candidate for vision therapy and caught an earful about how vision therapy is bad science and akin to voodoo magic money schemes. What this opthamologist doesn't know is that vision therapy is more than convergence and that for my son, it was definately a therapy that worked. You won't find an opthamologist that recommends vision therapy most likely. A different one told me that my son had good round eyes, 20/20 vision and that if he wasn't reading it was due to behavioral issues. My son's eyes were not tracking together. He couldn't see 3D. He had convergence issues. The opthamologist didn't look for those issues. The behavioral optomotrist did, and she was able to correct the issues. My son would not be reading today if he had not had vision therapy. For us it is the cornerstone of his success today. As successful as his reading tutor was, even she said he would have struggled harder and longer without the vision therapy.

 

The tutor sounds better than the first description:) Sometimes finding a tutor is really the best for everyone. I was going to do the Barton program at home with my son but honestly, the stress was just too much. We had already been struggling for 3 years with reading. I was frustrated to tears nearly every day. Ds was stressed out. We both avoided reading every day... The time came where I needed to be the cheerleader instead of the coach. I needed to be able to cheer him on while someone else corrected his mistakes. It was very expensive for us, but it also salvaged our relationship to a degree as well. I was able to relax and focus on making other subjects fun and engaging.

[wapiti]

Just piping in to say that my dd is another one whose tracking issue was missed by the ped opthamologist. After the tracking issue was fixed with VT thru a covd optometrist, her reading improved immensely. (Lately I feel like I'm starting to sound like a commercial :tongue_smilie:;))

[PeterPan]

..it also salvaged our relationship to a degree as well. I was able to relax and focus on making other subjects fun and engaging.

 

Yeah, there's something un-fun about having your dd think you were born with a cat-of-nine-tails whip in one hand and a cattle prod in the other. Makes the relationship really hard and totally spoils the whole myth of beautiful homeschooling thing. Things have changed since VT, but before it was NOT fun and NOT good for our relationship. That's part of why we went to the convention this past week and left the toddler. We just needed some time together with just us where it was positive, no schoolwork or housework or other problems.

[KathyBC]

We tried your phonics game (with nonsense words) Elizabeth and you never heard so much whining and complaining. You would have thought I was torturing her. Come on. Its a game.

 

I'm going to just have to think about or just let it go for a few days. It is really upsetting me. I think most of all because DH and I are not seeing eye to eye about it.

 

Thanks again.

 

I didn't get an enthusiastic response the first time we played, either. I put it away for awhile, then started slower. Let's each make five words and see who wins? Building up to, let's play for five minutes and see who wins? Then it didn't seem so daunting, I think. Don't know if that will help or not. But I hear you! :grouphug:

[KathyBC]

Maybe you can try the tutoring for 2 weeks and then take a break and see where your daughter is

 

Ooo, that's a good idea. :iagree:

[K8LYN]

I think there is a much bigger window for a normal rate of learning to read. Sometimes it is a lack of motivation, and sometimes students struggle more with decoding and then reading is not fun at all.

 

(in no particular order)

 

Happy Phonics has worked wonders for many of the kids I have worked with that struggle with beginning reading. There are games and some nice manipulatives.

 

Phonics Pathways also has a nice method. You could easily do a lesson from the book, then help your dd create her own pyramids of reading words which will increase the meaningfulness and interest.

 

All About Spelling has also come highly recommended by homeschoolers. I've heard some joke that it is also an all about reading book as it starts with the phonemes and builds with blends, etc. This might be a good assessment to see exactly where your daughter needs the most help. She may breeze right through half of the lessons in the Level 1 and you might be able to more easily identify where she is having difficulty.

 

You can also put the Closed Captioning on when she is watching her favorite shows. First, it makes the written language more meaningful because if Cinderella needs those words, maybe I do too. Second, she might pick up words without the daunting pressure of a text or a study session.

 

Personally, I think a well trained tutor/teacher (reading specialist or not) ought to be able to help work with you. Personally I would find a reputable tutor that is flexible, knowledgable (certified or not) and caring. Someone you can work with instead of someone working for you. Time is very important and you may be able to find someone closer and more time manageable closer to home. No one likes wasting time and money sitting in the car- this might make the whole experience negative for both you and your daughter. Reading ought to be fun :)!

 

On a side note: My brother struggled with reading. First, he did need his vision corrected; he had special exercises to help him focus which helped him see more clear. Second, his brain likes to take the long backroads and he was in second grade before he could read at the same level as his peers. He is now a very successful engineer! We all learn at different rates.

[PeterPan]

I think there is a much bigger window for a normal rate of learning to read. Sometimes it is a lack of motivation, and sometimes students struggle more with decoding and then reading is not fun at all.

 

(in no particular order)

 

Happy Phonics has worked wonders for many of the kids I have worked with that struggle with beginning reading. There are games and some nice manipulatives.

 

Phonics Pathways also has a nice method. You could easily do a lesson from the book, then help your dd create her own pyramids of reading words which will increase the meaningfulness and interest.

 

All About Spelling has also come highly recommended by homeschoolers. I've heard some joke that it is also an all about reading book as it starts with the phonemes and builds with blends, etc. This might be a good assessment to see exactly where your daughter needs the most help. She may breeze right through half of the lessons in the Level 1 and you might be able to more easily identify where she is having difficulty.

 

You can also put the Closed Captioning on when she is watching her favorite shows. First, it makes the written language more meaningful because if Cinderella needs those words, maybe I do too. Second, she might pick up words without the daunting pressure of a text or a study session.

 

Personally, I think a well trained tutor/teacher (reading specialist or not) ought to be able to help work with you. Personally I would find a reputable tutor that is flexible, knowledgable (certified or not) and caring. Someone you can work with instead of someone working for you. Time is very important and you may be able to find someone closer and more time manageable closer to home. No one likes wasting time and money sitting in the car- this might make the whole experience negative for both you and your daughter. Reading ought to be fun :)!

 

On a side note: My brother struggled with reading. First, he did need his vision corrected; he had special exercises to help him focus which helped him see more clear. Second, his brain likes to take the long backroads and he was in second grade before he could read at the same level as his peers. He is now a very successful engineer! We all learn at different rates.

 

The closed captioning is another example of using something with whole words, something that DEFINITELY helps some of these kids. The eye exercises you mention may have been vision therapy. The brain taking the long backroads is another way of describing dyslexia. And yes, my dh like this is a fabulous engineer. The dyslexia makes them very good problem solvers.

 

But no, I wouldn't chalk it all up to timing. Waiting doesn't solve the problems. When you see warning signs, you should pay attention. My dh did learn to read, but he doesn't read NEARLY as well as my dd who was taught with better methods.