Do you ever wonder if you're wrong?

[Teachin'Mine]

What's there to be wrong about "I don't really know but I am curious to find out?"

 

My dad is very atheist and has cancer- I want to tell him to send me a sign if he finds when he dies that he, in some form, is still very much "alive". But not sure how he would take it.

 

OP, where are you coming from in asking such a question anyway? Surely Christians have doubts about their absolute beliefs that have no founding in any solid provable reality other than belief in what a particular book, that has been altered and changed over centuries to suit various parties, says? I mean, its a lot to place so much faith in one book, IMO- what if its wrong? I try and draw from many different sources to draw my hypotheses, including my own experience- just seems more scientific :) But I haven't drawn any solid conclusions.

 

Peela where I'm coming from, regarding my faith, is I'm a Roman Catholic. Absolutely Christians have doubts and always have - most anyway. :) Even those who spent a few years with Jesus - in His presence learning directly from Him - had doubts. Of course Thomas is one who jumps to mind as well as Peter walking on the water to meet Jesus, until his faith faltered, or denying he knew Jesus out of fear for his life. Paul persecuted Christians before his conversion, Matthew was a tax collector, Jesus didn't hang out with the pharisees and the "highly religious" people. He talked, and ate and stayed with the sinners and those who mainstream society shunned.

 

The Catholic faith is based on Scriptures, but also on Tradition. There was only so much that was recorded in the Bible. The rest was handed down to us by those who were with Jesus.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I can't imagine the harm in talking with him. I would think that everyone who approaches the end of this life naturally wonders if there's something beyond - even if they believe there is no God. I'll be praying for him and for his family and friends too. :grouphug:

Edited April 5, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Lovedtodeath]

s/o of Afterlife of Atheists

 

Do you ever - even if it's only 5 seconds out of your life - wonder what will be if you've been wrong about your thinking?

 

We have a lot of atheists in our family' date=' and I've always wondered.

 

Thank you!

 

(What you vote is not made public and you can choose more than one.) : )[/quote']

oops. I voted but for the wrong reason. I didn't realize atheists were supposed to vote. I thought we were all voting that we were sure about what happens to atheists at death. I voted to say that I am 100% sure that atheists are not going to hell.

 

Now, after reading the responses it seems people are voting about being sure or unsure about a number of things, and that I wasn't supposed to vote at all, so I probably messed up the poll a bit.

[Teachin'Mine]

oops. I voted but for the wrong reason. I didn't realize atheists were supposed to vote. I thought we were all voting that we were sure about what happens to atheists at death. I voted to say that I am 100% sure that atheists are not going to hell.

 

Now, after reading the responses it seems people are voting about being sure or unsure about a number of things, and that I wasn't supposed to vote at all, so I probably messed up the poll a bit.

 

No problem. :)

[Night Elf]

Yes, from time to time I wonder. I have tried repeatedly to convince myself. I even feel "religious" moments that I'm positive are from God for a little while. Then I think about it and realize it just can't be. I always come back to thinking of religion as a manmade thing, and I won't go into that specifically.

 

I have several favorite quotes from Robert A. Heinlein that describe my feelings quite well. One of them is from Stranger in a Strange Land:

 

"I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith--it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe. --Jubal Harshaw"

[freethinkermama]

I spent 20 years as certain as I could be that I was right, but still considered that I could be wrong.

Now, I think I'm right too, but it's not worth my time.

It's like asking myself, "what if the color that I understand blue is not the same blue that others see, but our brains imagine the same blue differently."

Why waste my time on this when I already spent half of my life on it?

But, sure, let's just say that every time I see a religious post on the board I spend 5 seconds thinking about an so-called "after life", I suppose that's fair enough :)

I don't believe any of us will ever "know" what's after life. I don't think there's anything.

[Geek]

Yes, from time to time I wonder. I have tried repeatedly to convince myself. I even feel "religious" moments that I'm positive are from God for a little while. Then I think about it and realize it just can't be. I always come back to thinking of religion as a manmade thing, and I won't go into that specifically.

 

I have several favorite quotes from Robert A. Heinlein that describe my feelings quite well. One of them is from Stranger in a Strange Land:

 

"I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith--it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe. --Jubal Harshaw"

I like what you've written here, including the Heinlein quote. I'm saving that one.

[SEP]

oops. I voted but for the wrong reason. I didn't realize atheists were supposed to vote. I thought we were all voting that we were sure about what happens to atheists at death. I voted to say that I am 100% sure that atheists are not going to hell.

 

Now, after reading the responses it seems people are voting about being sure or unsure about a number of things, and that I wasn't supposed to vote at all, so I probably messed up the poll a bit.

 

Do you mind if I ask what you base that assurance on?

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Do you mind if I ask what you base that assurance on?

Well, hmmm... answering you will likely get me into trouble, but you did ask. God's Word. New Jerusalem Bible, Getty-Dubay version, Young's Literal Translation, NIV... etc. as explained by Jehovah's Witnesses with the technique of looking up every verse that pertains to the subject in context and letting the Bible explain itself. (Actually they started with the King's James, but I prefer others.) Scripture interprets scripture. I can give more details via PM or email. There are also posts on the topic of hell in a thread starting here by Pris and continuing: #111

 

Edited April 5, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[Crissy]

s/o of Afterlife of Atheists

 

Do you ever - even if it's only 5 seconds out of your life - wonder what will be if you've been wrong about your thinking?

 

We have a lot of atheists in our family' date=' and I've always wondered.

 

Thank you!

 

[/quote']

 

I'm coming from a different perspective (I am a Christian) but yes. I wonder.

Especially lately. I have lost some very important people in my life lately, and I have been wondering an awful lot.

I don't believe that has to do with my particular faith, though. I think most of us wonder.

[SEP]

Well, hmmm... you are going to get me into trouble, but I will answer you anyway: God's Word. New Jerusalem Bible, Getty-Dubay version, Young's Literal Translation, NIV... etc. as explained by Jehovah's Witnesses with the technique of looking up every verse that pertains to the subject in context and letting the Bible explain itself. Scripture interprets scripture. I can give more details via PM or email. There are also posts on the topic of hell in a thread starting here by Pris and continuing: #111

 

 

You are saying, based on God's Word that atheists are not going to hell... Just clarifying

[Lovedtodeath]

You are saying, based on God's Word that atheists are not going to hell... Just clarifying

That is correct.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Here's that quote:

 

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just' date=' then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." Marcus Aurelius[/quote']

 

That is awesome! I have never heard that before- thanks for sharing! :001_smile:

[Miss Marple]

I do believe in heaven and hell and yet there are late night moments when I wonder if I'm wrong. For me, it is part of intellectual honesty. I go over the evidence that brought me to belief, to see if it still holds water. It has withstood scrutiny for me.

 

:iagree: I question so many things...not just heaven and hell.

[SEP]

That is correct.

 

Will you reference some verses from God's Word to back up that belief?

[Audrey]

I wonder about a lot of things, but I don't wonder, or worry about going to hell or not.

 

I would say that I'm 99.99999 sure there's no such place, but I'm willing to conceed .000001%.

 

I have said before, that if I am wrong, and the Xian god is real, I still would not worship it, because I see nothing there worth worshipping.

[Just Robyn]

I wonder about a lot of things, but I don't wonder, or worry about going to hell or not.

 

I would say that I'm 99.99999 sure there's no such place, but I'm willing to conceed .000001%.

 

I have said before, that if I am wrong, and the Xian god is real, I still would not worship it, because I see nothing there worth worshipping.

 

:iagree:

[Mosaicmind]

Will you reference some verses from God's Word to back up that belief?

 

I would like to know those too.

[nd293]

I don't think you really want to 'go there' with comparing the Christian God to a good parent in a discussion with atheists though. ;) That could cause you great offense very quickly.

Here's a quote that touches on my feelings regarding pondering a creator.

 

Thanks for that quote - I hadn't seen it before. I also heard warning bells at the parent-child analogy. For me, it is the primary reason for my belief system - I understand both the concepts of omnipotence and free will, but I cannot reconcile them with the notion of god-as-father. And maybe this is why I have shifted from agnostic to atheism over the past 10 years. My experience as parent - the lengths I would go to to protect my children from harm ( and from themselves if need be) - certainly brought clarity to my thinking on the matter.

[Lovedtodeath]

Will you reference some verses from God's Word to back up that belief?

 

I would like to know those too.

 

Job 14:13 Job prayed that he wanted to be protected in Sheol and God would remember him. compare Revelation 20:13;14

 

There are several issues here:

 

1. We don't know what judgment anyone will have, including atheists. We don't always know what circumstances someone has had in their life. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. Jesus is the judge, not us.—Matthew 25:31-40

 

and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.--Acts 24:15

 

Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,"

 

2. Furthermore, if someone were judged adversely, the scriptures state that death is the penalty for sin. How unjust would it be to say death and mean something else? Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,"

 

"the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 "The wages sin pays is death." Romans 6:23 "for he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." Romans 6:7 "the dead know not any thing". Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 Psalm 146:4

 

The prize is stated as eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

 

3. Hell is not needed if souls are not inherently immortal.

 

Hebrew and Greek terms hades, sheol, gehenna, ruach, pneuma, psuche, and nephesh are linked to our understanding of these issues. I am still working through this. Here are some links and I can send more information on this in a PM. ruach 111

#41 #47 #65

[Mosaicmind]

Job 14:13 Job prayed that he wanted to be protected in Sheol and God would remember him. compare Revelation 20:13;14

 

There are several issues here:

 

1. We don't know what judgment anyone will have, including atheists. We don't always know what circumstances someone has had in their life. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. Jesus is the judge, not us.—Matthew 25:31-40

 

and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.--Acts 24:15

 

Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,"

 

2. Furthermore, if someone were judged adversely, the scriptures state that death is the penalty for sin. How unjust would it be to say death and mean something else? Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,"

 

"the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 "The wages sin pays is death." Romans 6:23 "for he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." Romans 6:7 "the dead know not any thing". Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 Psalm 146:4

 

The prize is stated as eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

 

3. Hell is not needed if souls are not inherently immortal.

 

Hebrew and Greek terms hades, sheol, gehenna, ruach, pneuma, psuche, and nephesh are linked to our understanding of these issues. I am still working through this. Here are some links and I can send more information on this in a PM. ruach 111

#41 #47 #65

 

The fact is that you have to BELIEVE in HIM before you can attain the prize. There is no neutral ground here. I do believe in a literal heaven and hell. I do allow for others to believe the way they want to but I wouldn't want to be them when life comes to an end. I want to stand before the Lord and be told, "Well done my good and faithful servant." I can't wait!!

[redsquirrel]

I don't really care.

 

If I am wrong, and it is the type of God that demands a particular type of worship then how would I even know what kind of worship to pick? How do you know you picked the right mythology? If I am wrong and it is the type of God that doesn't care about such a thing (universal love, universal salvation etc) then why bother worrying?

[Teachin'Mine]

I agree that each is judged individually and we can not possibly know how someone will be judged. But I personally believe 100% that hell is real. Just to clarify, I never intended for someone to interpret my post as suggesting that anyone, or any group of people, would go to hell.

 

The parable of the two sons came to mind. One said he would do as his father asked him, but in the end didn't do what he had asked. The other refused to do what his father had asked, but in the end did do what his father asked.

 

Some interesting questions and answers here regarding the Catholic perspective:

 

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/atheism